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Kerfuffle posted:Especially if they have kids. (They want to pet the doggy why are you such awful people who won't let them pet the doggy?) Strangers are not reliable when it comes to dog training. Oh god yes. I take the dog any time we have to go to petsmart/co, 'cause she really likes to sit and watch the fishies. (and the rats but I don't let her do that in front of employees) I have had multiple (5+?) kids come running up at her squealing, stop RIGHT before they get to her, freeze, then run away crying because she looked at them. Then I get a dirty look from the parents because I have a "mean dog". She just gets sad that she didn't get pets, but poo poo. It's not just responsible people that take their social dogs there, they also take reactive, aggressive, and shy dogs. Why would you let your kid do that!?  (I wouldn't let her do this if she did anything but put her nose on the glass and wag)
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Jan 8, 2011 06:34
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Now that I finally am the sole owner of my dog after 6 years I really want to reinforce some commands she has been taught. Right now if I ask her to go "down" she goes through a whole list of actions before she hits down like sitting first and then shake. I know she's confused, but I'm looking for a way to correct this behavior. She's too smart for her own good sometimes. She's a German Shepherd/Chow mix so I have no doubt in her smarts. Sometimes she feels human to me. cheese eats mouse fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Jan 8, 2011 |
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Jan 8, 2011 10:12
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cheese eats mouse posted:Now that I finally am the sole owner of my dog after 6 years I really want to reinforce some commands she has been taught. Right now if I ask her to go "down" she goes through a whole list of actions before she hits down like sitting first and then shake. I know she's confused, but I'm looking for a way to correct this behavior. She's too smart for her own good sometimes. To deal with this, I would use a clicker to mark the right behavior and then use another phrase to mark the wrong behavior. So when my dog does down when I ask for sit (which is frequent), I say 'Too bad!' and she knows that she didn't get a treat because she did the wrong thing. She'll either try again and I'll ask for what I want again. I read about this in the book 'Culture Clash' by Jean Donaldson, which is a great book. To train 'Too bad!', I did the whole training Leave It thing where I just put a piece of food in front of her and then covered it with my hand and said 'Too bad!' if she went for it. It was pretty effective. If the dog already knows Leave It, you can probably do all sort of things. The book had a method of training it, but I forget what it was right now.
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Jan 8, 2011 14:32
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Kerfuffle posted:I can tell you already that this won't work simply because people are completely loving stupid and will pet the dog regardless. ("OH SHE'S JUST BEING FRIENDLY") Especially if they have kids. (They want to pet the doggy why are you such awful people who won't let them pet the doggy?) Strangers are not reliable when it comes to dog training. Do you have an alternative suggestion? We're kind of at a loss here and I'm worried that this behavior is going to continue to be a problem as she gets older.
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Jan 8, 2011 16:06
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MrFurious posted:Do you have an alternative suggestion? We're kind of at a loss here and I'm worried that this behavior is going to continue to be a problem as she gets older. How is your dog around strangers who aren't paying attention to her? If being around any strangers gets her excited, then a public area like a park is a good idea I think (maybe someone can correct me if they've had a different experience). People at a park won't be as inclined to come up to you without permission like people at a pet store who have pets on the brain. Then you can go to places with increasing density of people until strangers are just background noise. For the actual greeting part, unfortunately the best solution is to round up people you know who you can trust to follow your lead with the dog. Friends, coworkers. You could maybe look for dog classes or meet-ups in your area.
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Jan 8, 2011 17:00
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MrFurious posted:Do you have an alternative suggestion? We're kind of at a loss here and I'm worried that this behavior is going to continue to be a problem as she gets older. Watch this video: Capturing Calmness (and maybe a few more of her videos if you have the time -- this one is to help stop puppy biting). I would try to train a default behaviour that's more appealing than the jumping and mouthing. A default lay down can be very helpful. Goldens can be extremely hyperactive as a breed (I'd describe them as happy as gently caress), so I'm not surprised you're having this problem. While trying to emphasize calmness also increase the amount of exercise she gets. It'll be much easier for you to deal with her extreme hyperness if she's a bit worn out first. On top of the default lay down you can also teach her to greet people with a toy in her mouth. You can shape this the same way you would shape the down. I'm not sure if it's exactly what you want, but a mouth holding a toy can't mouth a person's arms. Finally, switch up what you're using for treats, and use things that might be unreasonably delicious like steak, boiled chicken (warmed?), bread, hard boiled egg, peanut butter, etc. I find that my dog can get disinterested in treats after a time no matter how much she goes crazy for them at first. cheese eats mouse posted:Now that I finally am the sole owner of my dog after 6 years I really want to reinforce some commands she has been taught. Right now if I ask her to go "down" she goes through a whole list of actions before she hits down like sitting first and then shake. I know she's confused, but I'm looking for a way to correct this behavior. She's too smart for her own good sometimes. Kiri koli has the right idea. I just wanted to elaborate on it. You want to teach your dog command differentiation. You want to start being selective for what you ask for, and not accept when your dog throws everything she knows at you. It's also referred to as getting behaviours under stimulus control. If she throws everything at you I probably wouldn't bother with the "try again" cue (though there's no harm in it). I would just get up and reset the exercise and ask for it again. Do this by walking a few paces away with your dog then trying again. ToastFaceKillah posted:Teaching sit up/beg/live long and prosper. The trick to teaching this is really emphasizing getting your dog in the sit up position and holding it. I would recommend trying to teach this over a few months since, as I said, it requires core strength that needs to be built up over time. I tried for ages to get my dog to sit up unsuccessfully -- she kept bouncing up but wouldn't hold it. The trick that worked for me was having a wooden spoon coated with peanut butter that she could only access if she sat up and held herself there. As soon as she was doing that the lightbulb went off her both of our heads and she got it almost immediately. The "paw up" part of the sitting up was gotten by asking for a paw or a high five while she was already sitting up. Before she looked kind of like a zombie when she sat up since she held her paws down at her side.
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Jan 8, 2011 17:27
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Thanks for your help, a life less! I read the books you recommended, realized I was in way over my head, and found a trainer. Today was Comet's first session, and within an hour Comet was sitting comfortably next to a gigantic, unneutered male his age, which is easily his biggest trigger. I'm much more optimistic now.
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Jan 8, 2011 23:08
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My Miniature Pinscher is about 7-8 months old, we got it from my girlfriend's brother, she has the issue that when it comes time for one of us to leave, she'll start to bark, freak out, whine and bite at our pants and such. Not sure if it's some time of abandonment issue because her jerkoff brother and his girlfriend use to leave it in a cage or a muzzle while they were at work mostly, no one was ever home. Poor dog. Any tips what this could be and how I could help? I love this dog with all my heart and it kills me when I go to work or even up the street to the store.
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Jan 9, 2011 03:24
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ToastFaceKillah posted:Anyone have a good idea of what super logical trick I can teach a dog named spock using the "live long and prosper" hand signal? I've already taught him to play dead when I point at him and say "bang bang", and he's super trainable, he knows all the normal sit/stay type of commands. I just think it would be hilariously geeky to do something with this. First thing that came to mind was a single eyebrow raise, like Spock did sometimes.
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Jan 9, 2011 04:58
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Want to thank you all for the previous advice on getting my non-listening Auskie to do some recall. Goings are slow, and I could sum it up with "2 steps forward, 5 kajillion steps back" but those times she gets it just right it's like a goddamn party that's all for her, about her, and only she is invited to. Even with the tastiest treats she will ignore me if she's found something More Interesting but putting her on a long line and being able to draw her attention back has helped a lot. I met up with other Ausky owners the other day because I'm a dork and one of them had this gorgeous 1.5 year old girl that did lots of tricks. She jumped through hoops (or your arms if you held them in a hooplike manner) and begged, she had speak down, but what I was most interested in was "hold it". If you handed her something like a pack of treats or a toy she would hold it in her mouth until instructed to let go. I tried to get my ~6yo Diaz to do this and had...no luck. Granted, I was simply praising her while giving a command ("hold") as she grabbed a toy but I don't have any basework. She won't grab something unless she wants to play. What's a good place to begin with this command? Eventually I'd like her to hold random things in her mouth but I figured if I start with toys, aka things she already knows is good to put in her mouth, I can work my way up. Right now she holds for a second, then when she realizes I'm not going to play tug or throw it she drops it. How do I start this? Google gave me waaayyy too many results.. bonus: she is skeptical of my attempts to train an old dog new tricks.  expressive by sabarika, on Flickr
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Jan 10, 2011 02:36
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Emasculatrix posted:Thanks for your help, a life less! I read the books you recommended, realized I was in way over my head, and found a trainer. Today was Comet's first session, and within an hour Comet was sitting comfortably next to a gigantic, unneutered male his age, which is easily his biggest trigger. I'm much more optimistic now. I'm so glad you're finding success through a trainer. It sounds like that really was the best choice for you. I'm very glad you were willing to both buy and read those books too. Most peoples' eyes just gloss over when you mention reading a book for training. Interstellar Owl posted:My Miniature Pinscher is about 7-8 months old, we got it from my girlfriend's brother, she has the issue that when it comes time for one of us to leave, she'll start to bark, freak out, whine and bite at our pants and such. Not sure if it's some time of abandonment issue because her jerkoff brother and his girlfriend use to leave it in a cage or a muzzle while they were at work mostly, no one was ever home. Poor dog. I would approach this via desensitization (and counterconditioning). Read up on this thread's first post for a bit more information about it. Your dog is freaking out because she doesn't like being left alone -- she likely feels vulnerable. You leaving now has all sorts of negative connotations in her mind. So now your job is to countercondition those negative cues into positive ones. You do this with food and the basic counterconditioning process mentioned a bajillion times in this thread. Work on this with baby steps. Do quick dry runs where you're only gone for 5-10 seconds, or maybe you don't even leave the house. Get the dog used to the process, all the while keeping the entire experience a positive one. Once the dog is comfortable with the dry runs you can start increasing the duration of your absence slowly. 5 seconds, 10 seconds, 20, 30, 40, 50, 1 min, 5 mins, etc... Jackpot your dog for particularly good behaviour (reward with 4-5 treats and praise). Generally it might be a good idea to increase the dog's exercise too. It might help her mellow out a bit and have less nervous energy to spend and therefore be easier to work with. huskyjackal posted:...but what I was most interested in was "hold it". Here's Cohen holding a banana.   I taught this with shaping. I sat down with my clicker and a cup of treats and presented Cohen with something she'll usually play with. Shaping is essentially rewarding successively closer approximations of a desired behaviour, so I broke it down into multiple steps. First, I would click and treat any sort of attention she gave the ball. This is pretty easy as a dog's eye will naturally be drawn to a moving object, and with the precision of a clicker you can mark the exact moment the dog shifts her attention. I don't think you clicker train, so you can use a charged marker word for this -- it's less accurate, but it should suffice. The second step is starting to hold off marking/rewarding a simple stare, and reward for any sort of interaction with the toy -- nosing it, or better yet mouthing it. Keep repeating this step until your dog is consistently bumping/mouthing it, and occasionally bump up your criteria so it begins to look more and more like that "hold" command you want. Third step is stronger contact with the toy. Fourth step is taking the toy into the dog's mouth. Fifth is holding it for a split second. Sixth is holding it for half a second. Seventh is holding it for one second. You get the idea. Just break the behaviour down into tiny tiny pieces, and only move on to the next step once your dog knows the last one. Once your dog has figured out the game it's really just a matter of time. My dog has learned the shaping game already when I taught this, so she picked it up over the course of two days or so. Some dogs pick it up quickly, some need to be taught it more slowly. So, as you said in your post, you're having trouble with the premature dropping. That's a problem I ran into too. Once you have your dog holding the object reliably you're going to want to start adding a release word, I use either "drop it" or "okay". Proof the hold by slowly moving your hands around, walking around a bit, whatever, and only reward if your dog drops it on cue. For building the duration of the hold I found it useful to occasionally give the stay signal to my dog once she had something in her mouth. Another good way to proof it is to start asking for another command (like sit) while she's holding something. It'll probably confound her at first, but that's when you know you're starting to build a really good hold. Also, don't go adding your verbal cue ("hold") until your dog is starting to hold onto the object for ~1 second or so. You don't want to load your dog down with unnecessary words that don't mean anything to her. If you add the word at that point you'll be starting to actually label the behaviour you want. In the mean time I'd probably offer light verbal encouragement without any actual commands.
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Jan 10, 2011 03:34
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This thread has been really awesome, thank you all for the great info. My boyfriend and I got a (wonderful, awesome, totally the best) pup on Dec 17th and with all your help she has learned quite a few commands. We've run into a couple problems, though, so maybe someone can help a little more. She came to us knowing "sit" and she tends to default to that if she knows we have treats. It's been a little difficult to work on things like the loose leash training that a life less outlined because once she knows I have treats in my pocket she'll just sit, assuming that's what I want from her. The only way to get her to stand up is to move away from her but then she just moves to me and sits down again. I assume I need to give her a verbal command to stand up, but I don't know how to train that. Also, one of the things we love about her is how quiet she is. Except when she's playing with other dogs, that is. She LOVES chasing, and if a dog won't run from her or play with her she barks at them to get them to play. Over and over and over. It's only when she wants to play and it's only with particular dogs. It doesn't really bother me because I know she's just playing, but I feel like I've become "that person" at the dog park with the dog who won't shut up. Is there any way to train this out? If there isn't, it's no big and I'll just keep doing what I'm doing (separate her from other dogs when she begins barking too much until she calms down.) On a less training-related note (and a much more stupid one) sometimes she sleeps under our sheets... um, she won't suffocate under there, will she?  Here's the mutt in question. She's about a year old and a small dog, about 14lbs. The humane society called her a spaniel/terrier mix, but she runs just like my old greyhound, is very leggy and she has a similar body shape (deep chest, tucked up tummy) so I think she may have some sight hound in her. I like to imagine she's a miniature Saluki.  When I get some, I'll post better pictures of her body and furry tail in the mutt thread.  Edit: My dad is all "rawr alpha dog! don't let her sleep with you or she'll think she's alpha! roll her on her back to assert your dominance! CESAR MILLAN IS GOD!"  He's not really THAT bad, but he has two labs that could be much better behaved. What's the best way to approach talking to him about the problems with his training method? I want to be tactful and I don't think I've ever contradicted something my father has said. I also don't want to come across all "your dogs are maniacs and you're doing it all wrong." Any advice?
snail goat fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Jan 10, 2011 |
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Jan 10, 2011 03:36
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Waddley Hasselhoff posted:She came to us knowing "sit" and she tends to default to that if she knows we have treats. It's been a little difficult to work on things like the loose leash training that a life less outlined because once she knows I have treats in my pocket she'll just sit, assuming that's what I want from her. The only way to get her to stand up is to move away from her but then she just moves to me and sits down again. I assume I need to give her a verbal command to stand up, but I don't know how to train that. If she's repeatedly sitting down it may mean that you're not moving fast enough. Or it could be that the method won't work for you. Some dogs like yours who know one thing and one thing only often resort to that default behaviour. I imagine it should lessen as you increase her training "vocabulary". Try watching this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFgtqgiAKoQ Sometimes it's helpful to see it in action. Kikopup/Emily has loads of great dog training videos up on youtube to help you get over various training humps. You could train a stand (and it's a useful behaviour for most dogs) but I don't think it will be of much use to you while working on heel. Regarding the play barking, my dog does the exact same thing. Most dogs don't enjoy it and will either ignore her or get intimidated. The way I've chosen to manage it is to train a solid recall and call off my dog if she gets too loud, too focused, or people are getting annoyed. Then I'll start walking somewhere to shift my dog's attention back to me (and exploring). I've also trained a quiet command which can come in handy, but I much prefer the recall/moving on for these situations. I've not been able to really "train out" the barking, so I've opted to focus heavily on management.
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Jan 10, 2011 03:49
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Waddley Hasselhoff posted:Edit: My dad is all "rawr alpha dog! don't let her sleep with you or she'll think she's alpha! roll her on her back to assert your dominance! CESAR MILLAN IS GOD!" I just saw your edit. Sorry for the double post. There was a thread recently about this: Is there a concise argument for why Cesar Milan sucks? The first few links are good ones to share to Milan fans. I like the APDT one myself.
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Jan 10, 2011 04:21
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I'm back - we've developed another behavior problem with Hyperion the 1yo untrained Borzoi. On a walk one day we got charged by a huge bulldog. Before this he was just excited to see other dogs and was well socialized. Now he /completely/ freaks out when another dog is in sight. The other day he went after a very calm little dog on a leash and pulled so hard he yanked me off my feet and actually dragged me down the sidewalk. It hurt. The woman walking the little dog had to catch him in a neck hold >< I am not strong enough to hold him back! I know the whole distraction training method, but I can't seem to get him distracted. Any suggestions? And the "safe distance" deal doesn't work either, since it's anywhere in his line of sight. At this point I can't take him to the vet to get neutered, I can't get him to obedience class like planned, I can't get him on any walks for exercise, and i'm afraid he'll hurt someone's dog...
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Jan 11, 2011 00:27
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vstheworld posted:I'm back - we've developed another behavior problem with Hyperion the 1yo untrained Borzoi. On a walk one day we got charged by a huge bulldog. Before this he was just excited to see other dogs and was well socialized. Now he /completely/ freaks out when another dog is in sight. The other day he went after a very calm little dog on a leash and pulled so hard he yanked me off my feet and actually dragged me down the sidewalk. It hurt. The woman walking the little dog had to catch him in a neck hold >< I am not strong enough to hold him back! I know the whole distraction training method, but I can't seem to get him distracted. Any suggestions? And the "safe distance" deal doesn't work either, since it's anywhere in his line of sight. Can you tell us a little more about the freak-outs? I'm assuming that they are more than just excitement, is he growling, showing teeth, hackles raised, that sort of thing? Has he shown any reactivity toward people? If so, then I would definitely suggest that you find a trainer in your area who uses positive reinforcement techniques and see if you can get a consultation. Some trainers even have classes specifically for reactive dogs, though I don't know how common they are. In the meantime, I would do a couple things. First, I would muzzle train. Here is a great video http://www.dogstardaily.com/videos/home/muzzle-training on it. Muzzles have a huge stigma attached to them, but if you want to be absolutely safe in places like the vet, who cares what other people think? If you muzzle train correctly and have the dog wear the muzzle in pleasant situations, then it isn't a punishment for the dog and can go a long way toward helping them. Right now, we are muzzle training Psyche so that she can be safely approached and interacted with by our trainer. Second, train a focus command with your dog. Get the best loving treats ever and work on your dog looking at you despite any distractions you can think of (besides other dogs). Third, if your dog is freaking out at any dog at any distance, I would try to enlist a friend with a dog's help, meet them on a big loving field with some sort of barrier between you and then figure out where your dog's threshold is. At that threshold (if a dog can eat, he's sub-threshold), start popping treats in his mouth. This would be the counter-conditioning and desensitization part. Okay, so 2 and 3 are the bare outline of approaching this and there are tons of other things I could say, but if this is really that serious and you feel out of your depth, finding a trainer is a great way to go. They can guide you through this stuff and also make an accurate diagnosis of your dog. I'll be happy to talk about the techniques we use more, but someone on the internet is no substitute. Oh, also it's pretty obvious that the other dog is responsible for this new behavior, but injuries/sickness can also change a dog's behavior. If you want to take him to the vet, call them and tell them the special circumstances. If he's shown no reactivity toward people, maybe you can arrange a time when there are no other dogs around or come in a back door or something. Edit: Not to make light, but a life less, I love your new avatar. 
Kiri koli fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Jan 11, 2011 |
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Jan 11, 2011 01:02
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Here's my update on my work on Major's travel anxiety for week two. I figure this thread could use a bump too as it seems like there have been a lot of training related thread popping up lately. We had our phone evaluation this week to see how we're progressing and things are coming along well. The behaviorist clearly understands that +R works on people too and made sure to tell me how well I'm doing and how much she appreciates working with me because I have a behavior background  It certainly made me much more likely to continue to keep our phone appointments!As of right now Major is able to spend up to 5 minutes in a stationary but running car licking a frozen bowl of goodies without whining and then get out and be relatively relaxed. This doesn't sound like much but its a pretty big deal. Previously he would come in from spending any amount of time in the car and chug a whole dish of water and spend the next half an hour pacing frantically. I'm going to be keeping him at this stage for another week or so because I have a habit of rushing things and I'm really trying to lay a good foundation. The next step will be to pull out of the garage then back in. I tried switching things up and giving a kong instead of a bowl but he went right back to whining. Maybe I need a bigger kong? I think he doesn't like having to work to get the stuff in it enough to keep at it in a stressful environment. This week we are adding in the Thundershirt to see if that helps. He's fine wearing it and I've been incorporating it into our relaxation exercises but if he's just lounging around in it he tries to chew the velcro off. I think this will get better with some practice. I also just picked up the Manners Minder which I am totally pumped about! I've been watching youtube videos of the different ways people have used them and I can't wait. It comes with a dvd and a book of how to use it which I'm enjoying now. I really like Dr. Yin. Major isn't scared or shy about new objects at all so I'm speeding through the introduction part and he's starting to understand the tone. He already knows the clicker and a marker word so I'm sure he'll pick it up fine. The trick is keeping him from using it like the buster cube and trying to bash it open with his paws. I've been putting it away when he gets too rough with it and that seems to have done the trick so far. The vet behaviorist recommended a thing called the tell bell to teach him to do something in his crate in the car that I can reward him for without having to see him at all. Those are expensive and I spent about $600 on the dog last month so I got creative. Instead of that we are using a $5 "easy button" from Staples. It talks when you press it and if people can use it to train their roommates I can use it to train my dog. So far its looking like I won't need to get into other meds for Major! I get kind of frustrated sometimes because this process is going to take so long but I just take it day by day and keep a log of all his progress to see where we've come from.
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Jan 13, 2011 22:56
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Instant Jellyfish posted:So far its looking like I won't need to get into other meds for Major! I get kind of frustrated sometimes because this process is going to take so long but I just take it day by day and keep a log of all his progress to see where we've come from. That's really great. I really enjoy your updates. They're nice and thorough. I've run into a handful of interesting training odds 'n' ends lately. First, there's this PDF by Jean Donaldson dealing with resource guarding that is great for people who aren't inclined to purchase her book. Obviously the book is much more thorough and specific, but you can get a fairly good idea of the reason for the problem, and the possible solutions. I've added the link to the first page in the links section, but I figured I'd mention it here too since it's such a common problem. Second, I was reading The Other End of the Leash this morning (Patricia McConnell's blog) and she had a post about a Border Collie named Chaser who has displayed that she understands 1022 nouns and can distinguish between nouns and verbs. This is pretty mindblowing stuff if you think about it. For example, it's not necessarily believed that when you say "go get your ball" that your dog understands that "ball" refers to an object, or that the entire string of sounds means "go get something and bring it back". For the most part it seems like dogs understand commands as verbs. McConnell goes on to say, quote:The authors of this study, John Pilley and Alliston Reid, not only taught Chaser to label over a thousand objects, they taught her actions as well as nouns (“nose” meaning touch with your nose, “paw” meaning touch with your paw, etc.) and combined them to test if she distinguished between actions and objects (“paw lamb,” “nose lips”). She had no problem with that test, scoring 100% in what she was asked to do. I love that the study is looking into the ability of dogs to understand abstraction. Clearly Chaser is a particularly intelligent animal, but I think that this dog's abilities calls into question the generally low level of expectations many people place on their dog through misunderstanding its intelligence. Lastly, as I mentioned in another thread, I got a job as a dog training assistant at a local dog training facility. This is their website for those interested. When I met with the owner, Gillian, for the interview she said some really interesting things. Her emphasis was on making training accessible for the average pet owner. I know my inclination (as well as many others) is to stick to using sciencey talk when discussing training since science is, well science, and hard to argue with. She strives to keep a more people-friendly, accessible approach when training dogs. She says that it's important not to ostracize anyone when it comes to dog training, as it's always in the dog's best interest to encourage better training. That struck me as something particularly poignant. Sciencey stuff has always been my fall back when discussing dog behaviour (duh). I might try branching out a bit. She said that the complaint she receives most often is that the trainers use too many treats. To this both she and I guffawed a little, but she said that she was genuinely listening to this concern and was trying to determine a way to reduce the feeding encouraged in classes. Again, she's striving to be as accessible as she can. I'm not surprised people are turning away from R+ training with people like Cesar Milan, Brad Patterson and their ilk on TV. Gil has been referred to as "the most popular dog trainer in Canada", which is kind of neat. She's definitely paid her dues and I'm really looking forward to working under her. Not to mention I get free classes with Cohen, which is a nice perk.
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Jan 13, 2011 23:33
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a life less posted:She said that the complaint she receives most often is that the trainers use too many treats. To this both she and I guffawed a little, but she said that she was genuinely listening to this concern and was trying to determine a way to reduce the feeding encouraged in classes. Again, she's striving to be as accessible as she can. I'm not surprised people are turning away from R+ training with people like Cesar Milan, Brad Patterson and their ilk on TV.
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Jan 13, 2011 23:43
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Rixatrix posted:I'm not sure I understand her concern. Food is as universal a primary reinforcer as you possibly can get. What is she offering instead? I'm honestly not sure. I think she said that it was a relatively new complaint and that she hadn't revamped any of her classes yet. My guess is that she'll move to more play/praise for those uncomfortable with the feeding, and stick with the feeding for those with no problem with it.
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Jan 13, 2011 23:48
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a life less posted:That's really great. I really enjoy your updates. They're nice and thorough. Your training center looks amazing, congrats on the job! Most of the training clubs near me suck. They claim they are +R but you go and its full of puppies getting pulled around on prong collars with everyone looking miserable or shut down. The closest ones that I like are an hour and a half away and its going to be quite a while before we're up to that. As for teaching non-dog folks, what I found works with teaching biology to freshmen who just want to pass their intro class was to use a lot of stupid analogies. Start talking about a moth who uses its proboscis to sense vibrations on a specialized membrane and people fall asleep, tell people the moth uses its head like a record player and more people get it even if they think its dumb.
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Jan 13, 2011 23:56
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a life less, that is a really cool article. I love that studies continue to show that dogs are smarter than we think and also that we have historically been underestimating them and misunderstanding them. Hopefully this leads to better dog training and ownership within the public as this knowledge becomes available. Well, I can dream anyway. Also cool that you get to assist in training! I think I'd love to do that someday, but it's appearing to be a long ways off. Instant Jellyfish, I also appreciate your updates and I'm really happy that Major is making progress. I was sort of reluctant to post this because I really don't want my doubts reinforced, but we started Psyche on Prozac a couple of weeks ago. I'm not sure if it's having any affect yet (she's on a very minimal dose), she seems to have mellowed a bit in general but her outbursts at strangers/dogs haven't been affected at all. If anything, she's regressed with respect to dogs because there weren't many around during the holidays and we didn't have classes. Now the trainer is recommending we up the dose and the vet agrees we can do that at four weeks. This is just frustrating because I think that we could help her out with just training, but I don't have the tools. I would need people and their dogs to help me out a couple times a week. One class a week just doesn't seem to be enough. I might be able to find someone when the weather is better (and perhaps someone with a dog), and I just finished my qualifying exam so my semester from hell is over and I'll have more time to work with her...it's just frustrating because I know Psyche is smart and can learn what we need her to learn if she just had the chance. And the Prozac may still end up helping and I don't think it's bad for her...but maybe there's another way we don't know about. Maybe a different trainer would help more. But the problem is is that we need more time, more regular training opportunities, and that means money. Which we really don't have. If we can't afford more sessions with our current trainer, then we won't be able to afford them with anyone else (who isn't a crackpot). Anyway, I'll try to make updates on the Prozac if anyone is interested. It may still turn out to be just what we need to take the edge off and allow us to use training sessions more effectively.
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Jan 14, 2011 01:43
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Is it a big deal if a dog growls while playing tug?
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Jan 14, 2011 04:12
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Wulfolme posted:Is it a big deal if a dog growls while playing tug? Nope. I try to work on a really good "drop it" cue while playing tug, and I make it part of the game. Being able to ask the dog to drop it if he gets too worked up is helpful. The growling just means he's vocal and excited.
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Jan 14, 2011 04:38
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a life less posted:Nope. Is it a big deal if I growl at my dog while playing tug? Not a real question I just want her to get excited and growly, but she just looks at me like I'm crazy 
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Jan 14, 2011 04:49
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Wonderful, informative thread! Thanks, OP! I have a Beagle mix who likes to get right in our faces. We can all be sitting on the couch or bed and she'll be laying there while we are reading quietly or watching TV and then she'll (seemingly) randomly get up and get nose to nose. I was told that to break that behavior you don't stop what you are doing - you just shove the dog away ignoring the behavior. We've been doing this consistently for over a year but she still does it. Am I doing it wrong? Is there a way to redirect this? Also regarding thunderstorms - when we are home and it's raining, we'll let her be next to us, give her treats, play with her etc. So while we are home, she's not as fearful of thunder as she used to be. However, when we are not home, she is crated. If she's in her crate and it rains, she'll poop and pee in her kennel - even with toys and treats provided. She doesn't tear up the bedding or try to chew the cage up. Is there anyway to stop or change this behavior? *EDIT* She is normally comfortable in her crate. She considers it her safe place! Our other two dogs don't give a hoot about storms so I don't think she's feeding off their anxiety if we aren't home. Also, how feasible is it to teach an older dog new tricks? A friend of mine adopted a 9 year old dog who is housebroken and knows sit and stay - but that's about it. The dog is terrible on a leash and she'd like to teach her to be a little calmer on the leash and other basic obedience. MissConduct fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Jan 14, 2011 |
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Jan 14, 2011 13:23
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Cassiope posted:Is it a big deal if I growl at my dog while playing tug? ^ You absolutely can teach an old dog new tricks. Just start as you would with a puppy. I'm currently getting into competitive obedience with Pi, who is about to turn 5. He's learning beautifully 
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Jan 14, 2011 13:33
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MissConduct posted:Wonderful, informative thread! Thanks, OP! Ignoring attention seeking behavior takes a really really long time to work because even some really minor things, like just looking at them, can be reinforcing. What my behaviorist is having me do with my dogs super obnoxious attention seeking is to get up and do something, then have the dog sit/down/whatever, and give him attention for that. Here's the actual text from my evaluation summary. The Behavior Clinic posted:Attention Seeking is best addressed through Ignoring. Unfortunately, this is the MOST difficult way to address attention seeking. Why? Once you start ignoring an attention-seeking event, you must not look at, talk to (including reprimands), touch, or move toward your pet! Doing these things will just inadvertently reinforce the attention seeking with attention! This is a very difficult thing to commit to as the attention seeking may escalate at first because it used to work! If you absolutely cannot ignore at a certain time, get up and walk away to an area of the house where you know your pet will change gears (i.e., Walk to the refrigerator, look out the window, open the garage door, use the bathroom, etc). Once you pet stops attention seeking for even one brief second—pay them with attention by interrupting your pet with some obedience commands. If your pet can perform an appropriate response, you can then pay him with a food-stuffed kong or other ‘Job’ to perform instead of attention seeking from you! Thunder anxiety can be really hard to deal with, especially if you aren't there. I would invest in a DAP plugin and put it on when you know its going to storm and you aren't going to be around. I would also keep up working on counterconditioning. Here's Patricia McConnell's thunder phobia page, its really thorough. Finally, dogs can learn at any age! Tell your friend good job for adopting an older dog too!
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Jan 14, 2011 15:41
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Okay, so I'm coming in hopes that someone here will be able to help me deal with an extremely frustrating problem in my household. Maverick is a jumper, but not on people, she jumps on doors specifically the backdoor when she's ready to come in from her potty break. She has never been a big barker, but I'm really not sure how to address this behavior. Things I've tried: ignoring both within sight and by just not showing up if we just don't go get the door she will continually throw herself against the door with increasing regularity. The other way I've tried is walking up to the door and when she jumps I turn my back and then she will sit nicely so I let her in, but I still don't know how to teach her that I don't want her to jump on the door at all. Even if were outside together playing when she heads towards the patio she jumps on the door to go inside. It's a glass door and while she hasn't broken it yet, I'm concerned that she might.
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Jan 14, 2011 15:57
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DenialTwist posted:Okay, so I'm coming in hopes that someone here will be able to help me deal with an extremely frustrating problem in my household. Maverick is a jumper, but not on people, she jumps on doors specifically the backdoor when she's ready to come in from her potty break. She has never been a big barker, but I'm really not sure how to address this behavior. Right now you are showing up whenever she bangs on the door, so she really sees no reason to stop. When you don't show up she does it harder in an extinction burst. If I gave you  whenever you knocked on my door but then suddenly stopped, you would start knocking harder too. Eventually she will probably give up but if you are worried about her breaking the glass I would give her an alternative way to tell you she wants to come in, like teaching a dog to ring a bell to go out but in reverse. Here's a pdf on doorbell training that I think sums things up well. You'll have to go out with her while you are training this but its better than having your dog be full of glass.
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Jan 14, 2011 16:08
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Instant Jellyfish posted:Ignoring attention seeking behavior takes a really really long time to work because even some really minor things, like just looking at them, can be reinforcing. What my behaviorist is having me do with my dogs super obnoxious attention seeking is to get up and do something, then have the dog sit/down/whatever, and give him attention for that. Here's the actual text from my evaluation summary. Thanks very much, Jellyfish! It's taken over a year to get her from going to shivering OhmyGodthatloudnoiseisgoingtogetme to Loud noise = extra playtime so I can kinda ignore it. I'll probably wind up getting that DAP Plugin. Have you had success with that? Thanks for providing extra bits of info regarding the ignoring behavior. I'll have to make sure she isn't taking any cues from us. I've started impulse control training one of my other dogs. Does that sort of training curb begging or trying to snatch food from the table? Even if it doesn't, I want her to learn it.
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Jan 14, 2011 21:33
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MissConduct posted:Thanks very much, Jellyfish! I have a DAP collar for my dog because he needs it on the go and not in a specific room but I have definitely seen improvement in his general anxiety level and the DAP diffuser is supposed to work better than the collars. I've also used the Through a Dog's Ear cd mentioned on Patricia McConnell's page and had success with that. It seems like a bunch of BS but I put it on and my dog is out cold. I had to get the one specifically for the car because the regular one has been known to make people fall asleep when its on. My behaviorist has had clients fall asleep during interviews when she has it on in the background. Impulse control exercises are always a good idea! They may not curb those behaviors but they can lay a foundation so that you can. Here's a good video that goes over how to stop counter surfing. Instant Jellyfish fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Jan 15, 2011 |
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Jan 14, 2011 23:08
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Instant Jellyfish posted:I have a DAP collar for my dog because he needs it on the go and not in a specific room but I have definitely seen improvement in his general anxiety level and the DAP diffuser is supposed to work better than the collars. I've also used the Through a Dog's Ear cd mentioned on Patricia McConnell's page and had success with that. It seems like a bunch of BS but I put it on and my dog is out cold. I had to get the one specifically for the car because the regular one has been known to make people fall asleep when its on. My behaviorist has had clients fall asleep during interviews when she has it on in the background. Thanks again! Sadie is the counter surfing dog that we found as an adult stray a few months ago. I'm fairly sure her behavior comes from having to forage in the trash. My other two dogs know not to mess with food but we've had them from puppies. I've been doing the impulse control exercises with Sadie today and she's catching on pretty fast. I'm very impressed. She's also caught onto COME which I do by "loading a sound" as demonstrated here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1Q9SVFOWu4&feature=related
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Jan 15, 2011 03:07
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Alright, so ran into a situation on a walk today that I'm sure I handled badly, and want to know for future reference. Spirit and I are working on leash etiquette. Before I let her pull on the leash because we were having potty issues and I just wanted her to go and do her business without having to worry about being corrected, but now that the potty issues are resolved it's time to address to pulling. I've been doing the method I saw on "It's me or the dog," where every time she pulls I promptly turn around, say "No pulling" and walk the other direction until she stops and returns to my side, then we turn back around and continue walking. She gets praised for walking loosely on the leash, and I do give her a moment after pulling to correct herself before I turn her around. But today there were two guys out smoking, and of course she wanted to see them so she pulled and I turned, and then behind us there was another dog being walked. So on one side it was "HEY GUYS SMOKING GO SAY HI" and on the other it was "HOLY poo poo ANOTHER DOG YAY!" so she was yanking me every time I turned. Eventually I just stood in one place and let her yank and whine until the other dog turned the corner and she lost interest. What do I do in that situation, where I can't go either direction because there's awesome stuff she has to go see RIGHT NOW on either side? I can't really go off sidewalk, because on one side it's about 2 feet until I hit the apartments, and on the other it's an ice filled parking lot I don't want to navigate with a pulling dog.
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Jan 18, 2011 00:37
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That thing I sent posted:Alright, so ran into a situation on a walk today that I'm sure I handled badly, and want to know for future reference. I would concentrate on working on the loose leash walking (I think there's a really good guide by a life less somewhere around here) without distractions first and work up through successively bigger distractions. Eventually your dog should follow your lead and walk calmly past distractions like this. But it'll take a while to work up to it. In the meantime, for situations such as this, I would work on ingraining in your dog that when you stop walking, she should sit. You stop, she sits, she gets treat. Over and over. You can make her sit on your side if you want to combine this with heel later on. Sitting is usually something dogs do particularly well, so it's very helpful. Even my dog will automatically sit now most of the time while she's spazzing out at something because I worked on it a lot. You can even work on it inside! If that's not enough, my trainer would probably tell you to teach your dog leave it where you basically block your dog from something they want (you can start with treats you throw on the ground) and when they leave off it, you give them a treat, something different than what they're after. She recommends doing it without words at first so that the dog learns to respond to your body language. I block little things that Psyche is after with my hands or I block her from things she wants to bark at like people by stepping in front of her until she backs off (she usually sits!) and gives me her attention. Your goal is that the dog focuses on you and ignores whatever you don't want them to have forever.
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Jan 18, 2011 02:21
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Kiri koli posted:I would concentrate on working on the loose leash walking (I think there's a really good guide by a life less somewhere around here) without distractions first and work up through successively bigger distractions. Eventually your dog should follow your lead and walk calmly past distractions like this. But it'll take a while to work up to it. Yeah, that's definitely my ultimate goal is to have her walk loosely beside me. She'll never be off leash, since I live very close to a busy road, but it'd be nice to be able to control the walk a little better. She's honestly not BAD about pulling, but when she sees something that she wants to go look at like, like a person or especially another dog, she's all about trying to yank me off my feet for a chance to go inspect. quote:In the meantime, for situations such as this, I would work on ingraining in your dog that when you stop walking, she should sit. You stop, she sits, she gets treat. Over and over. You can make her sit on your side if you want to combine this with heel later on. Sitting is usually something dogs do particularly well, so it's very helpful. Even my dog will automatically sit now most of the time while she's spazzing out at something because I worked on it a lot. You can even work on it inside! She's extremely good at sitting, so this is definitely something I can incorporate into walks with no problems. I'll make sure she sits after I pull her away from a distraction, rather than simply waiting until she stops pulling and comes back to me. quote:If that's not enough, my trainer would probably tell you to teach your dog leave it where you basically block your dog from something they want (you can start with treats you throw on the ground) and when they leave off it, you give them a treat, something different than what they're after. She recommends doing it without words at first so that the dog learns to respond to your body language. I block little things that Psyche is after with my hands or I block her from things she wants to bark at like people by stepping in front of her until she backs off (she usually sits!) and gives me her attention. Your goal is that the dog focuses on you and ignores whatever you don't want them to have forever. We're working on leave it...slowly but surely she's getting it, but she's very good at selective hearing. She'll ignore something on the ground if I say leave it, but when it comes to people or other dogs she somehow forgets the command. But I'll try the body blocking more for sure, and definitely incorporate the sitting. I want to work on controlling the behavior now, when it's winter and there's not many people or pets out and about since it's so cold, because once the summer comes there's always people walking around. Thanks much!
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Jan 18, 2011 02:38
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Would this be a good place to discuss training treats. I feel like buying bags of treats is a waste of money when I could make them myself. Liver treats seem easy, but what about cookies. Any good recipes?
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Jan 18, 2011 02:40
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This came up in the pet food megathread recently, post from Instant Jellyfish:quote:Take a bunch of beef liver, boil it for ~5 minutes, bake for 3-4 (less for chicken liver and check every hour or so) hours at 250 degrees F turning occaisonally, cut into little bits and serve. I keep mine refrigerated or frozen but if you bake them long enough they should be shelf stable for as long as it would take to pass them out. Around here a pound of sliced beef liver costs around $2 and I find it easier to work with than chicken liver. and cookies: Cassiope posted:Let's see if I can remember this right.
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Jan 18, 2011 02:45
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That thing I sent posted:What do I do in that situation, where I can't go either direction because there's awesome stuff she has to go see RIGHT NOW on either side? I can't really go off sidewalk, because on one side it's about 2 feet until I hit the apartments, and on the other it's an ice filled parking lot I don't want to navigate with a pulling dog. The two posts I've made about teaching heeling are here and here. Hopefully they'll help in getting your dog to walk with a loose leash. As Kiri Koli said, getting a really good sit/focus cue for particularly distracting situations is a lifesaver. I would start with what I would call "assumed focus" which is essentially your dog looking to you for reward/instruction without being told to do so. Essentially you just want mark the behaviour you want (looking at your face) whenever it occurs. Start with your dog on a shortish leash and wait until she chooses to look at you, mark and reward. Eventually you'll have a dog sitting and watching you intently (the sitting tends to happen naturally). Then you can also train a focus cue. You can teach your dog to orient to you when you say her name by presenting good things whenever you say it. Or you can teach a more official focus by adding a verbal cue to the "assumed focus" exercise once your dog is really good at it. Start slow in areas with few distractions and in short bursts, then work up to the tougher stuff. Ninja edit: I will guide my dog away from the sidewalk when there's something I foresee as trouble (a particularly energetic dog, etc), get her to sit and reward for focus. We just wait it out until the distraction has passed, and I reward heavily for good focus. That thing I sent posted:I'll make sure she sits after I pull her away from a distraction, rather than simply waiting until she stops pulling and comes back to me. Just going to nitpick this phrase. You said pull her away. Ideally you want to get your dog's attention and have them voluntarily move away from the distraction. Easier said than done, yes. But when you pull your dog like this you're kind of doing the driving for them -- they're not able to make any decisions and therefore aren't really learning anything. Try not to use the leash as a steering wheel -- it's merely a safety device. a life less fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Jan 18, 2011 |
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Jan 18, 2011 02:50
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a life less posted:Just going to nitpick this phrase. You said pull her away. Ideally you want to get your dog's attention and have them voluntarily move away from the distraction. Easier said than done, yes. But when you pull your dog like this you're kind of doing the driving for them -- they're not able to make any decisions and therefore aren't really learning anything. Try not to use the leash as a steering wheel -- it's merely a safety device. I'm totally guilty of using the leash like a steering wheel - old habits from walking my parents dogs. But it's good to know that I'm not helping the situation at all dragging her down the sidewalk away from the distractions. I'll work more on focus, sitting, and rewards for good behaviors then turning back and forth on the sidewalk over and over again. Thanks much, helpful as always!
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Jan 18, 2011 23:02
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