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AWESOME thread, thank you so much.  Perhaps I can direct my friend's roommate who's having trouble with her pit to some of this stuff.
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Nov 11, 2010 06:50
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That post is super helpful for me, Wolfie. Shadow has a really high prey drive, and he's mostly learned to wait for my permission to chase things (by accident, actually), but if I don't catch him in time he'll dart after it (usually squirrels). What the real problem is is getting him to listen once he's gone after a squirrel or found a chipmunk burrow or whatever. Normally it's not a problem, I like to let him chase/dig after things because it's what he lives and breathes for and there's literally nothing else he likes to do to expend his energy. But I'd still like to have better voice control over him when he gets excited. Chachi, welcome to having a GSD mix that is not motivated by food. Now you feel my pain.  Actually Shadow loves deli turkey, and that works very well in training sessions at home with him (I just taught him to lay on his side moments ago with it, actually). But slimy deli turkey is not exactly convenient to carry on walks, and he may not even be interested in it on walks because he values chasing things way more highly than food. But I guess I'll have to take a ziplock baggie of turkey with me on a walk and see how he does. Sorry I didn't have any advice for you, but I'm still learning too. Krieger's gorgeous. 
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Jun 5, 2011 20:03
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Poor Shadow wanted the hotdog I had for him so badly that he thought every command was "lay down."  It's one of his most recently learned commands so he's kinda stuck on it, I guess. Or maybe I'm just not being clear enough for him, or the hotdog is too high value so he gets too excited, I dunno.  The other night I taught him to lay on his side, by accident actually. But hey whatever, a new command in his short repertoire. He seems to enjoy learning new things and getting his brain going.  He may be an old man but god drat he learns quickly. 
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Jun 10, 2011 01:29
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Haha, yeah if I make him try another time or two he'll get it right, and I do try to change things up a bit, but he gets stuck in patterns so badly. I'd really like to improve his "stay" and get him to do commands from a distance. The overall improvement on the bond/trust between he and I is amazing, though. Ever since I started adding to his training he listens to me so much better. He's even less scared to go out in storms with me. I know a life less has said such things before but now I know from experience.
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Jun 10, 2011 07:15
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Meniscus posted:Our new issue, which really isn't a new issue but has escalated quickly very recently, has been barking at strangers. Brixie seems to be a one-or-two person dog, which is okay in my book. What's not okay is her behavior of growling at barking at strangers, who include our roommates and my boyfriend's mom. It's really really embarassing, and really stressful because I've told all of these people that no, I won't be -that- kind of owner and Brixie -that- kind of small dog. And here she is, acting like an arm pirhana when people come through our door. To further complicate matters, she seems to do it less when she's near/being held by my boyfriend than me. Is she resource guarding me? If I recall correctly from a similar episode of It's Me or the Dog, Victoria had the lady and her dog sitting on the bed near the dog's kennel (which had a zipper flap on top for easier access). Every time the dog started the protective behavior when someone came near, she would get put into her kennel with the flap zipped shut. Rinse, repeat, so that every time she was being protective, she was taken away from her favorite person, thus learning to knock it off. And of course treat for good behavior when someone else is near, from both of you. But you say she hates her crate, so... what I think would also work is simply getting up, walking away, and ignoring her every time she started getting protective when others came near. Anyone feel free to add to/correct this.
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Jun 18, 2011 03:12
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I apologize if this has been brought up before, but how can I work on getting Shadow to do commands from a distance? For him, if he's 5+ feet from me, he thinks EVERY command is a recall. If he's like 15 feet away and I tell him to sit, he thinks he has to come up to me. Now, I'm delighted he has great recall... but obviously it's a little off. My first guess is that I really need to improve his 'stay' command and go from there?
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Jun 18, 2011 20:32
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Awesome, thanks. He does pretty well with 'wait' which is when he has to stop if he gets ahead of me on a walk or if he needs to wait for permission to do something, so maybe I won't bother with 'stay' so much anymore (kinda silly to try teaching him both in retrospect). I taught him 'touch' last night which he picked up in mere seconds. I really wish I'd found PI and gotten more into training sooner. Teaching him to stay on a mat is going to be an interesting challenge. edit: vvv Got it. 
Skizzles fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jun 19, 2011 |
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Jun 19, 2011 17:54
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One of my mother's pugs... is afraid of food dishes.  Rubber, plastic, paper, steel, deep, shallow, plate... he's scared of them all. He has to eat his food off the floor because OH GOD THE DISH MIGHT BITE HIM.This is because he is a violent licker and it makes the dish move and jump around, which terrifies him. I tried to convince him the dish (in this case a flat, non-threatening plate) wasn't a monster by putting pieces of OMG HOTDOG YAY on there. After the other pug, Gracie, stole the first couple of pieces he was determined not to be left out and started fearlessly digging in to get the hotdog pieces. After that he even seemed to think, "oh cool, it won't bite" and was happily munching his kibble off the plate. Until Gracie came to get her share. He doesn't like to eat around her because she's a filthy little food thief. I've never actually seen her resource guard but she can be pushy with food, which causes him to back off when she's eating. After she left he went back to fearing the plate. If there are pieces of food on the floor near the plate, he'll reach his little leg out as far as he can to drag the piece to him to avoid getting near the plate. So I don't know if it's the movement of past dishes that has him scared of it or if he's worried Gracie will shove him out of the way if he's caught eating off the plate.Slightly off topic: Gracie is a pug, and therefore not bright at all, but when it comes to food she has poo poo figured out. Shadow will bark at her if she comes to steal a treat he's saving for later. But she learned to face the door and start barking, which will cause Shadow to jump up and go to the door to bark at the ~intruder~ also. As soon as he does she darts in and steals the treat. He stopped falling for it though.
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Jun 28, 2011 02:25
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Instant Jellyfish posted:This would probably work better for dogs smaller than yourself, lol. I can pick Shadow up, but uh... try being a 5'1" girl and carrying a 70lb dog more than a few feet. But no, I get what you're saying, a life less, and I think it's a good idea. As for the pugs, that would probably be for the best to feed them separately but my mom free-feeds (hence fat pugs). I'll talk to her about putting them on a schedule and separating them. But the scaredy pug, CK, is afraid of food dishes whether or not the other pug is around. He's... very special. I'm sorry, I will never own a pug.
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Jun 29, 2011 18:58
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My dog was never a reactive barker, but he used to be very tense and intimidating to other dogs that came near, and the off-leash ones that got in his business would often get growled or snapped at. What helped fix this a HUGE amount was changing my attitude. Before, whenever I saw another dog coming near, I would get tense and nervous because I worried it was going to end badly, and I would start to tense up on the leash. Dogs will pick up on that tension and nervousness and it in turn makes them more tense and nervous. I think he felt my tension and thought I was scared of the other dogs, because that's the only time when he'd really get growly is if they tried to come directly up to me. Thanks to PI I realized my attitude needed to change and I stopped being nervous. Every time we see another dog I get all happy and sing-songy, praising my dog every time he looks at another dog or behaves well around one. His attitude changed immensely. He still doesn't want to be BFFs with other dogs, but that's fine, since at least now he behaves himself if they come up to us. I've noticed he also relaxes a lot more if I can pet the other dog first and assure him it's not a threat to me. Obviously every dog is different so it may not have as big an effect on your dog, but it will still help. Of course this is all under the assumption you get nervous/tense when other dogs come near. Skizzles fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Jul 3, 2011 |
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Jul 3, 2011 02:10
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Dancingthroughlife posted:So I'm getting ahead of myself as my husband hasn't given the go ahead to adopt this puppy, but I'm wondering how to train her. She's deaf due to abuse from some bastard. Well why not continue with sign language? I knew of someone with a deaf dog. They trained her using a vibration collar to get her attention, and just taught everything else using hand signals.
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Jul 4, 2011 22:55
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She apparently knows sit in sign language, and I'd like to expand on that. How do I go about training a puppy that can't hear words or clickers?
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Okay. I'm looking to teach Shadow a "move it" command so he can know to get his huge rear end out of the way when people are walking down stairs, walking toward him while carrying heavy things, a cyclist is speeding toward him, etc. He's incredibly retarded about moving people/objects and seems to think, "lol they won't hit me, they'll just stop or move out of the way derp-de-derp." What's the best way to go about this?
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Jul 18, 2011 17:41
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That's probably a better idea, yeah. Except my dog does NOT seem to understand pointing at all, at least not with his "go get it" command. Maybe in the context of a "go here" would be easier for him though. One thing that irritates me about this dog (though yes, it is my fault) is he only understands commands in VERY specific circumstances. Was he taught a command while I was standing in front of him? Then I can't be standing anywhere else for him to follow that command because "hurrr that's not how yew taught me!" Was he taught a command in the dining room on a cloudy Tuesday afternoon? Hurrrr, can't do the command again unless it's in the dining room on a cloudy Tuesday afternoon. Obviously that was an exaggeration but you get my point. Still gotta get to work on teaching commands at a distance like a life less gave me tips on.
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Jul 18, 2011 18:25
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Well I only put some of the blame on myself because I felt I should have worked on it more, reinforcing the behavior in different scenarios and positions and whatnot. But, yeah, I know most dogs are... well, dogs. Instant Jellyfish, my dog gives no fucks about me barreling through him until he stumbles out of the way, but maybe if I start rewarding when he moves and pair it with a verbal cue it'll get through his head. I think I'll try the "go here" idea first though.
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Jul 18, 2011 21:42
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That's a pretty awesome video. But I bet money people like Susan Calvin's parents are gonna be those people with selective hearing who will get hung up on "But he's talking about the dog training us and making us its slave! WE CAN'T LET THE DOG THINK THAT, IT MUST THINK WE ARE DOMINANT, RABBLERABBLE!" Still totally worth a shot, though.
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Jul 20, 2011 02:18
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Susan Calvin posted:With Cesar, one gets the in vivo, in a way that preserves dignity for both human and dog. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh9YOyM2TAk Yeah that's a real fuckin' dignified dog and human there. I don't care if he's supposedly "changed," he still bases his methods on dominance theory. I'm sorry, but your mother would make me bust a vein.
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Jul 21, 2011 17:23
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Lookit that (LONG) face. So there was some idle chit-chat about how nice it'd be for my shelter to have training classes. Then this "trainer" (I couldn't find any of her credentials) acts like she'd be happy to do it and chimes in with this: quote:you have to see the world from his position...if you were a child and had the best life ever and it got ripped away from you...then in a home agian wouldn't you have a fear of it being ripped away from you again...thats probably what he is doing...its probably not just him needing to be socialized we have seen that he is social...This is what many dogs do after being adopted...THEY PROTECT WHAT THEY LOVE and when in that mode and when they are allowed to be in that mode it just gets worse and then they feel stressed because they feel they have higher rank in the pack and protecting is what they are suppose to do.......However You need to show him you are pack leader and there are several ways of doing so....but first I want to mention a technique all should follow...when you touch a dog in a nice way it reinforces what behavior they are doing at that time I've never seen such a confusing mishmash of old and new school.  I asked if she follows dominance theory but she said "No its called pack theory and positive reinforcement because thats what they understand". 'k
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Aug 5, 2011 23:13
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Fraction posted:That... that sure was something, alright. Parts of it were understandable (i.e. distracting from triggers), but other parts were just uhhh yeah. Ask your dog to eat and then move in its path and forbid it to do so. Sure, okay. Yeah, I dunno, isn't pack theory essentially... dominance theory? Is she just retarded and confused or have I actually missed something?
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Aug 6, 2011 00:25
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Yeah I pretty much called her out on everything and she's like, quote:i didn't say block him before he eats i simply said let him eat while your standing there and do positive reinforcement and kinda do a body block to test getting closer to the food...then pick it up before he claims it...then do some more training sit down whatever and then put it back down....i guess the way i said it was confusing...i never said call him over don't let him eat and block him geese I'm pretty sure you meant "geez" not "geese," lady. edit: Also I have some backup 'cause one of the ladies in our little shelter group knows Sophia Yin personally and can vouch for my counter arguments. 
Skizzles fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Aug 6, 2011 |
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Aug 6, 2011 02:44
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I was just glad she didn't say static electricity.
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Aug 6, 2011 05:37
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Well someone else in our shelter group saw me countering that retarded "trainer" and sent me a message:quote:I noticed your great posts on dog behavior & co., and was wondering if you had any ideas for me on something.. Now... maybe it's 'cause it's 4:00 in the morning and I just got up (hooray storms), but my mind is having trouble grasping what she's asking and I'm not entirely sure how to help her out here. My only knowledge of behavior is from being a nerd who has read books/articles from respected vets/behaviorists and talking to trainers over the past year or so. And I don't know any CPDT's(?) or behaviorists in the area. I know one Petsmart trainer who, judging by her own dogs, is a pretty good trainer, but eh. I do also kinda know the founder of Slugger City Bully Buddies, who is working on a degree in behavior, so maybe she'd be willing to help out. At an event she recognized me from Petsmart adoptions and then added me on Facebook. I had no idea I was that memorable/popular.  I do know I don't want our DISMAS workers to have anything to do with evaluations (other than maybe being there if things go sour and the dog gets too aggressive maybe). I'm all for second chances and the DISMAS program is cool, but we've had too many gently caress-ups caused by them at my shelter (kennels improperly cleaned, dogs stolen, money stolen). I'm sorry if this is kind of a retarded request, but any advice?
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Aug 7, 2011 09:23
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a life less posted:A trainer who I follow on facebook posted this. I thought it was great, and am reposting it here. This was excellent and put my thoughts into words way better than I ever could, thanks for posting it! That video is just stupid, I agree the dog did incredibly well. He could have always lashed out at the doll but instead he just cowered a bit, and even tried to happily inspect it when it wasn't coming at him. I don't understand these people.  I think a dog's behavior, temperament, and other variables should be taken into account during every interaction with the dog, not just have everything boil down to that one evaluation. The fact that a dog's life rides on that one session seems a bit unfair.Anyway, I responded to her basically explaining that while I had no formal background in training/behavior I'd be thrilled to do what I could and even compile a booklet on training/behavior from the articles and books I've read (all of which were posted or recommended here). I gave her a quick run-down of what to look for in a trainer/behaviorist (that is, to avoid traditional trainers and go for new school trainers) and why dominance theory is inaccurate and the methods are not the best. Also told her to contact the girl I mentioned earlier, the founder of the bully advocacy group working on her behavior degree, 'cause she already works a bit with my shelter and I think she wouldn't mind helping out. While I would love to suggest implementing the treat basket thing you mentioned, I think it would really be beyond my shelter's ability... we already struggle with getting enough basic supplies like food and bleach, let alone treats. The dogs at the nice, new shelter are behind glass anyway. The only dogs you could throw treats to are in the old, lovely, dilapidated shelter that's in constant violation of some building code or another. We just got a new director, and even though he's came from a really high kill shelter with the HSUS, I hope he can turn something around there...
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Aug 7, 2011 19:11
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So, minor update, the lady who messaged me about the evaluations really wants me to help put together some behavior info and be the one to help her with evaluations if she gets the job.
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Aug 9, 2011 02:40
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Geez. I don't really have any advice yet, but I'm pretty curious to see a picture of this dog. I promise I'm not trying to be off-topic, I just wanna see what we're working with here.
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Aug 10, 2011 03:44
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This is pretty helpful to me too. Shadow is NOT a natural mouther, never has been, so teaching him to grab things would be a little tough. I know he can/will because he's moved limbs and things off of chipmunk burrows to get to them, though. I was watching some of Denise Fenzi's videos with Cisu earlier and just... 
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Aug 16, 2011 04:24
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I don't think Shadow understands cues or hand signals so much as he thinks, "OOH if I do that last thing she taught me I should get a treat! No? Okay let me try one more time to make sure! Still no? Okay what about the thing you taught me before that?!" and just go through a couple things before getting it. You know how sometimes it's hard to work on leash-reactivity because friends aren't really interested in bringing their dog to stand there and help you work on it? I've kinda... considered putting up an ad to be that person. But I just feel awkward putting up an ad basically saying, "Hey you want me and my dog to come stand there for a while for you? GIMME A CALL." I just wanna help people and their dogs, man.
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Aug 18, 2011 03:25
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Kiri koli posted:There are techniques for forcing your dog to actually think about what you want instead of just offering behaviors, but I can't think of any of them right now. If you or someone could remember those techniques, that'd be awesome. Damnit, dog, I want you to THINK!  I saw this lady with a somewhat reactive dog in the park today and she was trying to calm him down when Shadow and I passed, and I entertained the idea of going back and offering to help her with it, but I chickened out. Looks like she had an idea of what she was doing by distracting him and making him follow cues. She did it a little late but to be fair Shadow and I kinda came jogging up outta nowhere. I know I could also help these people with advice on how to work on it but I worry about that since I'm not an actual trainer and haven't personally dealt with reactivity since Shadow's never had an issue with it.  I want to finish reading Feisty Fido before trying to help anyone anyway.
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Aug 18, 2011 04:12
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Kiri Kolisnik: Yeah I worried about that too, I figured I'd just come off as an annoying creep who didn't actually know anything about reactivity by standing there making her dog go nuts. a life less: That's what I started doing near the end of our training session yesterday. Ignoring just made him sit there and look at me like, "Well what the gently caress do you want?" So I started going "Nope!" and made him reposition himself to get ready to try again, and he started doing better. I also find he responds WAY better to a point and snap than just pointing (I was teaching him 'go to bed').
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Aug 18, 2011 14:35
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I saw this guy at the park with a leash-reactive pit this morning. Every time he lunged excitedly or barked at another dog the guy just JERKED his prong collar as hard as he could and yelled no. If the dog kept at it (which of course he did) he would smack his snout or shout NO in his face. I've seen this guy before and even yelled, "That's only making him worse!" but was busy chasing down a lost dog. It was infuriating and sad to watch him jerk the loving dog off his feet, only to make the dog screech louder and lunge harder. I REALLY wanted to go say something, but... I figured he'd react negatively to some young woman coming up all like, "lol you're doing it wrong." How would you guys have gone about it? If I see him again I refuse to keep my mouth shut. (Sorry for any typos, posting from phone.)
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Aug 23, 2011 19:36
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(Sorry if this is a double post, I think the SA phone app had a seizure.) Kiri Koli: Yeah I know such things usually fall on deaf ears, but I'd feel awful if I didn't at least try if there's a chance the guy is willing to listen. I planned to do as you suggested, just go up and be friendly, ask if he'd like some help and offer advice on methods I know to work (maybe pretend I used them on Shadow to explain why he's so chill). If nothing else, recommend he read Feisty Fido, or hell, even offer to lend him my copy. Who knows. [Edit: Just so everyone's aware, I know how this guy 'trains' his dog is none of my business and I'm being nosy and awkward, but he was just making such a scene (everybody was looking at him uncomfortably) and hurting his dog so much that I can't stand doing nothing. Who knows, maybe I'll wuss out.] Also, I pretty much had a similar question to the fellow up above. I'd like a degree/certification in animal or canine behavior. I'm not really interested in becoming a trainer, I just love learning about behavior and training methods. Plus it would help me get into the shelter/rescue field. My friend is working on her degree with Animal Behavior College, and she is not happy with it. She feels like she's being overcharged (about $3,000) for a few books and to learn really basic things she already knows. So I'd like to check out other options. Karen Pryor supposedly has some program nearby, but it's closer to $4,000. Argh. Would I just be better off interning with a trainer or something? Skizzles fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Aug 24, 2011 |
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Aug 23, 2011 23:45
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^^^ Yeah, in my experience, people around here only pay attention to formal credentials. That's partially why I want a degree/certification in behavior, so people won't just completely ignore my good advice because I lack a ~*pretty piece of paper*~ that cost thousands of dollars.notsoape posted:Awww, way to go, Mouse. She also needs a ribbon for "cutest lurcher puppy ever."
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Aug 24, 2011 16:53
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^^^ Do this, but if your dog is like some, yelping may only excite them further, so just abruptly end play time without making a sound. Also get a new trainer.
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Sep 12, 2011 00:50
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a life less posted:I've only seen bits of Stilwell's show, but what I've seen I've liked and obviously it has a good reputation around R+ training folks. However, my understanding is that in the most recent season they had to resort to cheap off-topic gags which focused more attention on the attractive tight-clothes wearing host than on actual dog training. I think it was an attempt to improve ratings. I've only watched some of the older episodes, but from what I've seen of the newer commercials, yeah, this seems to be the path her show is taking. It sucks rear end, but gently caress it, whatever gets morons to watch a decent training show. Also, I'm sure this has been mentioned, but I have no search function... What's a good way to go about teaching a heel? I thought of just starting off with luring for Shadow but wondered if there was a better way. Shadow is good at walking alongside-ish me, on or off-leash, but I thought it'd be good to teach something more formal as well. Skizzles fucked around with this message at 03:55 on Sep 21, 2011 |
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Sep 21, 2011 03:49
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Guys, when do you think I will learn it's useless to argue with people about why Cesar Millan is an idiot? It's come to my attention that a lot of people in my shelter community like him. I try to explain to them why his techniques aren't that great, and I just keep getting, "...ya well it worked fer me" over and over. Maybe I just suck at explaining it. Whatever. The last person asked for book recommendations, so that's something at least. It's making me want to throw myself into a wood chipper. Also I asked for tips on teaching Shadow a heel cue a page or two back but no one responded...
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Sep 23, 2011 16:14
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a life less posted:It's a matter of first teaching the behaviour, then putting it on cue with a release (like Okay or Go Play), beginning to proof the behaviour in low distraction areas, then medium then high. Heeling is a difficult behaviour from start to end. Which part are you having difficulty with? Haven't really gotten much of a start on it yet, just wanted some tips to ensure I didn't screw it up. He already kind of has an "okay!" cue to release him from a wait/stay but I haven't worked on it enough to be super reliable yet.
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Sep 23, 2011 22:14
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How to Create a Reactive Human in 10 Minutes or Less.
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Oct 4, 2011 15:50
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I have been tasked with writing up an educational booklet for my shelter to give out to adopters (or anyone who would like one). I'm going to ask that volunteers and employees be required to read them as well because I'm tired of the ignorance. This booklet will include general dog information such as nutrition, training, basic medical care/issues, book recommendations, and I thought about including a small bit on ethical breeding. If it were up to me this booklet would end up as a series of novels, but it's best to keep things succinct, obviously. What I wanted to ask is if any folks with credentials here would be interested in writing up the training section? An overview of traditional vs. positive reinforcement, dominance theory flaws, a bit on behavior and body language, and training tools. Kind of a rehash of the OP but with some added stuff, I suppose. You would of course be given full credit and sent a copy of the booklet if you like. Keep in mind this needs to be approved by officials at the shelter so professionalism is key here. edit: a life less is awesome and has volunteered for the job. 
Skizzles fucked around with this message at 15:30 on Oct 18, 2011 |
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Oct 18, 2011 15:11
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Fraction posted:This sounds like a really cool thing. Good on your shelter for doing it! I actually proposed the idea to them, but they said go for it, and it'll be good on them if they approve what I and those helping me put together!
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Oct 19, 2011 03:59
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MrFurious posted:When you begin to remove treats out of the equation, you need to be careful not to be too predictable about it. If you are only treating every third time, the dog can catch this pretty quickly. Variable rate rewards tend to be more motivating than 100% rate rewards, which is why phasing out the food is a good idea -- but you have to remember, if you're rewarding in a manner that is consistent, it's not variable, which is the key. I wanted to add to this. In "The Other End of the Leash" Patricia McConnell makes a great comparison to help understand this. There's a reason slot machines are so successful and bring in a lot of money, because people never know when they're gonna get something good and feel they have to keep trying, because OMG WHAT IF I'M JUST ONE TRY AWAY FROM A JACKPOT?! NO? OKAY MAYBE THE NEXT ONE! However, with a soda machine where you're supposed to get something every time, if it fails once or twice to deliver your soda, how likely are you to try it again?  Also if any of you have yet to read "The Other End of the Leash" you really should, it's a fantastic book.
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Oct 29, 2011 15:51
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Yeah most people don't even know what the hell an extinction burst is so I kept poo poo simple since a lot of people, myself included, would say gently caress it and leave if a soda machine didn't cough up. Or we'd go complain to get our $1.50 back. :iamafag:
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Oct 30, 2011 21:47
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