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How do I train my dog to... … not poo poo in the kitchen? … make a sound like a wookie on command? … come when I call? This thread will hopefully serve as a hub where people can ask various dog training questions. There's so much good information on this forum that it's hard to keep track of it all. So, please, ask your questions here, and I and the rest of the PI crew will do our best to answer them. I personally spend a lot of time reading up on various training tactics and working with my dog. I don't know everything, but I know quite a bit. If I've left anything out please feel free to add information of your own. Or if you disagree with anything I've said please post and let us know! __________________ Section A - Learning i - Classical Conditioning ii - Desensitization iii - Extinction iv - Operant Conditioning v - Reinforcement and Punishment vi - Positive Punishment as a Training Tool Section B - Training i - Traditional training ii - Positive reinforcement/clicker training iii - Dominance Theory iv - Learned Helplessness v - Selective disobedience vi - Training methods (luring, capturing, shaping, targeting) vii - Common training problems viii - Primary vs secondary reinforcers Section C - Tools of the trade i - The clicker ii - Treats iii - The leash (standard, training, tab, flex) iv - The collar (flat, slip, martingale, prong, head, harness, electric) v - The target stick vi - The toys (tug toys, balls, misc) vii - The crate viii - Training classes ix - Reference books x - The internet Section D - Further reading i - Recommended reading ii - Helpful posts iii - Videos __________________ An introduction to dog training ends up sounding a lot like an introduction to psychology. Because it is. If you want to teach your dog anything it would be helpful to look into how animals (ourselves included) learn. I'm going to use these first few posts to lay out a lot of the basic language that I think is important to understand when talking about training. A,i - Classical conditioning Pavlov's dog: By this point in your life you probably have at least a passing familiarity with Pavlov and his dogs. He was a physiologist who noticed that his experiment subjects would occasionally drool when no food was present – for instance, when the assistant who normally fed them walked into the room, even if he wasn't carrying food at the time. Pavlov designed an experiment that looked into the root of the dogs' responses. In phase one he would measure the dog's salivation under two situations: when meat powder was placed on the dog's tongue, when a neutral stimulus was presented (a tone, which on its own would cause no salivation). In phase two he would sound the tone and then present the meat powder several times. In phase three he would sound the tone with no food present and, whelp, the dogs still salivated. They had learned that the sound of the tone indicated the imminent arrival of food.
The process of conditioning: Neutral stimulus (tone) → Unconditioned stimulus (meat powder) → Unconditioned Response (salivation) After conditioning has occurred: Conditioned stimulus (tone) → Conditioned response (salivation) This is an important idea to understand about the learning process. The physical response is involuntary, but still occurs despite being protracted from the original trigger. This reaction can be stretched a bit by, say, pairing a flashing light with the sound of the tone, which was previously paired with the arrival of meat so the flashing light eventually increases salivation response, but the response is weaker. This is called second-order conditioning. You can normally further protract the process another few times, but you must understand that it's less effective each time. The coolest thing about conditioning, and what's most important to remember, is that the learning process happens subconsciously. It is a natural reaction of animals' brains, and it can be used to explain the occurrence of various phobias, etc. So how does this apply to dog training? Say you're out walking your dog and it sees another dog approaching in the distance and starts barking at them and generally being an rear end in a top hat. This sort of antisocial behaviour is normally born out of insecurity, and the dog has learned that if it barks and is unapproachable the other dog won't approach. The dog has been conditioned to feel that other dogs' presences are unpleasant and reacts accordingly. To bring this back to Pavlov, the approach of the other dog is the conditioned stimulus, and the barking is the conditioned response. So, well, your dog has already been conditioned to think that other dogs mean bad things. What now? Now it's time for counter-conditioning. Your goal is to change the approach of other dogs from an indicator of negative things into an indicator of positive things. You do this with food, 'cause, well, dogs love food (and they need it to live). First you need to figure out what your dog's reaction distance is. Is it when the other dog gets within 10 feet of it, or when your dog sees another dog 6 blocks away? The reaction distance is your dogs' threshold between being chill and freaking out. You want to keep the dog under threshold at all times if possible (but admittedly, this is not always possible). So, keep your distance from other dogs while you're doing this. Don't push your dog too hard. Second, once you see that other dog approaching your dog's threshold start popping food into its mouth, one piece immediately after another. If your dog won't take food you're too close to the other dog and you need to move away. Use awesome treats for this if your dog is really disinterested in taking food – steak, pizza, hotdogs, peanut butter, etc. Essentially your goal is to repeat this enough that your dog starts looking at you expecting food when it sees another dog. And your job is to provide food every single time. Important things to remember: Your dog should notice the other dog before he gets food, so he understands more quickly that other dogs = incoming food. Counter-conditioning takes a LOT of time, so expect to spend months working on this. Progress might seem slow, and there are occasional set backs, but keep at it. This is an excellent video demonstration of how successful basic counterconditioning can be: Video Link: Counterconditioning a dog who acts aggressively when blown on This is an interesting point made about counterconditioning (CC) made by Patricia McConnell. Patricia McConnell posted:CC isn’t about training anything, it’s about pairing a very low intensity stimulus that evokes fear with a high intensity stimulus that evokes a positive emotion. For example, a dog afraid of strangers would be CC’d by having a visitor stand outside the door (low intensity because they don’t enter the house) and toss pieces of chicken (high intensity). Over time, and lots of repetitions, the dog’s emotional response to the food becomes attached to the visitor as well. A,ii - Desensitization Systematic desensitization is often coupled with counter-conditioning. It's used by psychologists to treat people with anxieties or phobias. The subject is exposed to a fear-evoking object or situation at an intensity that does not produce a response. Intensity can be modified via the degree of realism, proximity, etc. Intensity is gradually increased contingent on the subject continuing to feel okay. A,iii - Extinction In general, a conditioned response will gradually disappear if not reinforced through the process of extinction. For instance, if Pavlov stopped offering meat powder after sounding the tone for a period of time, the dogs will cease to salivate since the association between the tone and the food is no longer being reinforced. This is why ignored behaviours often stop since the dog is no longer being reinforced for providing them. However, some behaviours are self-reinforcing, and therefore very difficult to extinguish. For example, a dog often finds barking to be a pleasurable response to various stimuli (barking is FUN!) so even if you ignore a barking dog they're very unlikely to stop this behaviour since they're reinforcing it themselves. That's not to say that you can't train a barking dog to be less barky, but it requires a different approach than to ignore it. (Thanks to Rixatrix for this section.) A,iv - Operant conditioning Operant conditioning accounts for most of what we learn every day. In classical conditioning, the neutral stimulus and unconditioned response are predictably paired, and the result is an association between the two. (Then the conditioned stimulus triggers the conditioned response.) Stimuli occur before or along with the conditioned response. But dogs (and humans) also learn many associations between responses and stimuli that follow them – between a behaviour and its consequences. Operant conditioning is all about consequences, whether they're good or bad. Learning is governed by the law of effect which states that if an action is followed by a satisfying effect the action is more likely to be repeated the next time the stimulus is present, and if an action is followed by an unsatisfying effect it is less likely to be repeated. The subject learns by operating on the environment, hence the term operant conditioning. In classical conditioning the conditioned response does not affect whether or when the stimulus occurs. Pavlov's dogs salivated when the buzzer sounded, but the salivation had no effect on the buzzer or on whether food was presented. To contrast, an operant has some effect on the world. A child says “I'm hungry” and then is fed, the child has made an operant response that influences when food will appear. If a dog sits and then is fed, the dog has made an operant response that has also influenced when food will appear. A,v - Reinforcement and punishment There are four quadrants of consequences that follow a response in operant conditioning. They are positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, positive punishment, and negative punishment. A reinforcer increases the likelihood of a behaviour happening again, and a punishment decreases the likelihood of a behaviour happening again. The term “positive” means you're adding something to the environment, “negative” means that you're taking something away from the environment. To clarify:
Negative reinforcement (R-): A negative reinforcer is when you take something away from the environment to increase the likelihood of a behaviour repeating itself. Example: upwards tension on a leash is released once a dog has sat after being asked to sit. Positive punishment (P+): Positive punishment is adding something to the environment to decrease the likelihood of a behaviour repeating. Example: When you reprimand a dog for jumping up on visitors. Negative punishment (P-): Negative punishment is when you remove something from the environment to decrease the likelihood of a behaviour repeating. Example: Putting a dog on “time out” after jumping up on visitors. Here in Pet Island we like to focus primarily on R+/P- quadrants. We like to reward good behaviour and ignore bad behaviour. If bad behaviour is ignored (and not self reinforced) then its occurrence will decrease. (See the Extinction section in A,iii for more information.) A,vi - Positive punishment as a training tool I had someone come up to me a while ago and when I asked how their new pup was fitting in they said things were going well, but the pup was having a hard time understanding what "no" meant. Apparently she (the puppy) would tug at clothes and generally freak out in that special way puppies do, and no amount of, "no no no NO NONONONONO" would stop her. Strange, eh? Dogs don't understand "No" very well. Try to define what "No" means. "No" has so many diverse applications -- dogs have difficulty keeping track of them all. When it comes to dog behaviour, there are so many wrong answers out there, and so few right ones. So instead of saying "NO", why not tell your dog what you want it to do instead? Instead of saying, "don't bark at visitors" try saying, "when people come over I want you to lay in this bed." Try giving your dog the right answer. You'll find many of the dog-induced headaches will go away if you tell your dogs what to DO, not what NOT TO DO. This also applies to other types of positive punishment, like leash pops, spanking, poking, etc. The more intense the aversives become the more fallout you risk creating. Dogs may not understand why they're being hit, the same way they may not understand why you're saying "no" at them. They may momentarily shut down (see learned helplessness, section B,iv) and stop the naughty behaviour, but they may not understand why they've been punished. They may think they're being hit because of behaviour A, whereas you were actually reacting to behaviour B. And as soon as you have a dog not understanding why they're being punished, well, you as an owner and a handler have just become a source of unpredictability and stress. It's really easy for us as people to focus on the negatives and overlook the positives. With dog training you really have to do the opposite: you want to constantly show and reward your dog for doing the correct thing. This way you offer your dog the structure which it craves. Well, what if the dog is doing something it shouldn't? When this happens I tend to feel that once a dog does something you don't want it to do, you, as a trainer, have lost the game. As a trainer I always try to be one step ahead of my dog and catch bad behaviours before they actually start and refocus her before she screws up. a life less fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Aug 14, 2011 |
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B, i - The schools of training - traditional There are two basic schools of training when it comes to dogs. "Traditional" is more pervasive, and has been used for many years. There is a new training methodology emerging that sets itself apart from what was previously thought of as normal: "positive reinforcement". Traditional, or balanced dog training tends to be very hierarchically based, where a trainer tends to take a very no-nonsense approach with their dogs. They expect a dog to listen and obey commands lest risking punishment for non-compliance. This is a very corrections-based method. You'll often find a lot of people using terminology like “be the alpha” in conjunction with these training styles and the two ideologies are closely related. Rewards also exist in this methodology, but often they're pats or verbal praise in lieu of food rewards. There is the concern that reliance on food to train results in reliance on food for compliance for the rest of the dog's life, and that a dog may not obey in situations where no food is present. Ever pop your dog's leash? That's an traditional training method. It is a correction for the dog misbehaving in a situation where it can be expected that the dog knows what it should be doing, but is doing something else instead. The general idea behind these methods is that you first teach a dog to do something, then you punish it for not complying if necessary. (Personally I feel that the teaching is often rushed, and a dog does not always know why it is being reprimanded.) These tactics can and do work, but they can also be misused and abused. In soft-tempered dogs, or already anxious animals you might find the animal shutting down when faced with the stress added by the handler. Popular old school dog trainers are Cesar Milan, Brad Pattison, and Don Sullivan. Certain training schools also adhere to these methodologies. One of the most popular and widely spread schools is Bark Busters. Here's some thoughts on traditional training by one of my favourite trainers Susan Garrett: Susan Garrett posted:Traditional training has us believe that a dog diving towards a distraction is "wrong, naughty, headstrong, stubborn, willful, bad, stupid..." There are a number of labels given to a dog who is simply motivated by a distraction. B, ii - The schools of training - "purely positive" The "purely positive" school of dog training is reward based, founded on the basic principle that you reward desirable behaviours to increase the frequency at which they're offered. You use reinforcers like food, play and praise as rewards to lay the groundwork for positive associations and future training. This new school of training was developed to work with a wide range of animals, from bears and lions to whales and rats. I'm sure you're all aware, but it's not recommended you alpha roll a bear, and leash popping a whale is difficult, to say the least. A better method of communication and training had to be developed, as physical coercion simply cannot occur with some species. Instead of punishing undesirable behaviour we create joy and enthusiasm for the correct behaviour. Solutions to struggles in "purely positive" training 1. Redirect (ideally without reinforcing) 2. Management - can be shortterm, or for the duration of your dog's life 3. Fix (overcome) This new school of dog training normally goes hand in hand with a tiny handheld device called a clicker (more information about the clicker is available in section C). Prior to its use, there was some discussion that methods of delivering praise and reward did not inform the animal of successes with enough promptness and precision to create the required cognitive connections for speedy learning. The response was the clicker. It is a unique sound that the animal only ever encounters as a mark for good behaviour that is more reliable and precise than a human voice can ever be. These techniques have been used with whales, bears, lions, as well as domestic dogs and cats. It's a faster, more reliable way to communicate to your animal. The click is used to mark a split second of a behaviour and communicate that a reward is on its way. I'll speak a bit more about using a clicker in the “Tools” area in section C. The positive reinforcement that this methodology is based on is excellent for working with quiet dogs, or dogs lacking self confidence. Popular new school dog trainers are Victoria Stillwell, Pat Miller, Susan Garrett, Jean Donaldson and a bunch of other people you've probably never heard of. Check out this video as an introduction to clicker training. What Is Clicker Training? by Kikopup (youtube link) Here are some popular misconceptions about new school training: The dog won't perform without food present: This is a popular problem people have. The issue is that the handler is not fading out the food lure fast enough when teaching a new behaviour. The idea is to fade out the lure quickly, and to reward on a variable rate of reinforcement so the dog is never sure when it will receive its reward. The dogs become fat with too many treats being provided: Yes, you'll be giving your dog a lot of food. But you don't always have to use treats. For 95% of the training I do with my dog I use kibble, and if I'm doing an intense training session I'll skip my dog's meal and feed it to her one at a time as rewards. B, iii - Dominance and dog training Have you ever heard someone refer to themselves as their dog’s “alpha”? How about being told that if your dog does X then it’s a sign that it’s exerting dominance over you? Now, if you hear people saying as much you can quietly roll your eyes for the following reasons: Dominance theory is based on flawed studies performed on captive wolves in the 1960s, and basic brute force prior to then. There have been many studies that display that dogs do not operate under a dominance hierarchy. Dogs' social structure is more fluid. Association of Pet Dog Trainers posted:One of the biggest misconceptions we find ourselves faced with is the definition of "dominance." Dogs are often described as being "dominant" which is an incorrect usage of the term. Dominance is not a personality trait. Dominance is "primarily a descriptive term for relationships between pairs of individuals." and moreover, "the use of the expression 'dominant dog' is meaningless, since "dominance" can apply only to a relationship between individuals. (Bradshaw et al., 2009) The idea is that dominance is never elicited forcefully, rather it is voluntarily given. What we often consider “dominant” traits are often anxiety-based behaviours that can and do intensify if addressed with force. I believe that what is commonly referred to as dominance is just a feature of a relationship, not a personality trait. While there is some form of hierarchy present in dogs' interactions I feel that it has limited application in dog training. Most problems are not caused by dogs conniving to overthrow their masters and even if a problem is caused by a rank dispute, it can be solved through the application of the learning theories anyways. All animals are subject to the laws of learning. So, forget about dominance theory – regardless of whether it exists or not it’s completely irrelevant. Your goal when addressing behavioural issues is to focus on what the dog is currently doing, and figure out what we want the dog to do instead. Then we help the dog understand what’s expected of it by rewarding desirable behaviours. “Alpha rolls” and “scruff shakes” are not only unnecessary, but they can damage a dog’s trust in its handler and can intensify the already-present anxiety. This article says it better. If you have anyone who’s a bit stuck on dominance theory it’s a good thing to show them: http://www.apdt.com/petowners/choose/dominance.aspx/ Here's another quote from someone who said it better than me: quote:Dominance, within ethology (or animal behavior), is defined as a relationship between individuals that is established through force, aggression and submission in order to establish priority access to all desired resources (food, the opposite sex, preferred resting spots, etc). A relationship is not established until one animal consistently defers to another. I find it unsettling how many behaviours are contributed to dominance and the true behaviour is not addressed because of that. Making a dog walk behind you, eat after you, not sit on the couch or submit to you in every way is NOT going to address a biter whose bites are triggered by touch or a reactive or aggressive dog. Once you take off the dominance-coloured glasses, you can stop looking at what it is in the makeup of the dog that causes the behaviour and start really looking at the behaviour. You can go from saying "Dog A attacks Dog B because Dog A is dominant" (very vague) and start saying "Dog A attackes Dog B when Dog B walks too close to his food bowl" Now you have gone from interpreting the behavior to describing the behavior. The fact is, I wouldn't want to interpret even a humans's behavior because I can't know what they are truly thinking, I know I have no hope of interpreting a dog's behavior. But if you know that event 1 triggers event 2, then you can start to change things. However, dogs need structure and routine, and they need to know what's expected of them. B, iv - Learned helplessness Learned helplessness is a term that means a condition of a human or animal in which it has learned to behave helplessly, even when the opportunity is restored for it to help itself by avoiding an unpleasant or harmful circumstance to which it has been subjected. In short, the animal has given up on helping itself. It's a sad state of affairs. Learned helplessness is sometimes the result of harsh training and over-correction. If a dog is constantly punished for not behaving accordingly (and remember that the dog might have no idea what “accordingly” is) it might give up on ever trying to figure it out. That is the primary reason why I infinitely prefer clicker/positive reinforcement training since it rewards the dog for trying new things. If you have a creative, enthusiastic dog there's really no limit on what you can teach it. Here's one of my videos of Cohen when she was one year old to show the fruits of positive dog training: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-JAVttIV-g B, v - Selective disobedience One major criticism of dogs trained primarily with positive reinforcement is that they’re selectively disobedient. It makes sense – when few reprimands are given the dog is not scared of making a mistake and incurring punishment. A lot of people who train improperly can’t get their dogs to behave without waving a treat in front of their noses. And to these people I say, YOU’RE DOING IT WRONG. The goal of positive reinforcement training is to lay the groundwork for good behaviour when you’re out in the real world and away from your bait bag. You do this by quickly fading lures and utilizing a varied rate of reinforcement so the dog’s never sure when it’s getting a reward. When you’re beginning you can maybe get 3-5 behaviours for a treat, but veterans can expect to get 50+ without pausing to feed/reward. The other key aspect of maintaining obedience without threatening punishment is that you have to do some work to convince the dog that they want to do what you want them to do. Convince them that it’s their idea. I’m really not too sure how to describe this, but in order to achieve success with this you have to know your dog very well, and have a good working relationship with them. You really must go out of your way to relate well to your dog. B, vi - Training methods: There are a couple basic training methods: luring, capturing, shaping and targeting. Luring: This is when you have a piece of food in your hand and you slowly move your hand in such a way for the dog to follow it. For instance, slowly moving a treat above your dog's head to get him to sit, or moving the treat to your left side to get the dog into heel position. This is normally the fastest way to achieve a new behaviour, but is not the best for retention. Capturing: This is when you capture a behaviour your dog offers or does in day to day life. For instance, you can capture a bow that your dog might do while stretching after a long nap. You do this by marking the behaviour you want with either a click or a marker word (followed by a treat) to communicate to your dog that it was desirable. This is probably the slowest way to teach a new behaviour, and the dog retains the training moderately well. Shaping: Shaping is when you mark successive incremental changes in behaviour as they approach your end goal. Say you want to teach your dog to pull a lever. You can do this by shaping it from the ground up. Start by rewarding your dog (with a click or marker) if he looks at the lever. Do this a few times. Then hold out on the treat when he looks at the lever and wait for him to approach it. Repeat. Then wait for him to touch it. Repeat. Mouth it. Repeat. Etc until you've built the behaviour you were looking for. This can be very time consuming, but the dog will retain the information much better since he's actively taking part in the learning process. Targeting: Targeting works similarly to luring, however instead of asking your dog to follow a piece of food, you're asking your dog to follow a target, which can be your hand, a target stick, a mousepad etc. Targeting works on the principle that "If I touch the hand I will get a treat", compared with luring works like "I want that treat so I will follow it". The dog has learned previously that a reward will be provided after touching the target, so the target isn't a primary reinforcer (see the section below on information on primary/secondary reinforcers). A great usage of this behaviour is if you have a dog who's been known to bite if disturbed from the couch (bite inhibition and/or resource guarding), you can teach him to move from your seat on command by asking for him to target something on the other side of the couch so you can manipulate the dog both without bribery and without touching it then rewarding for good behaviour. This is a very fast way to teach positioning once you've taught your dog how to target the desired object. (Thanks to Rixatrix for suggesting the addition of this subject.) B, vii - Common training problems: 1. Human mechanics of training (poor application of timing, criteria, reinforcement) 2. Not planning ahead or having the proper tools 3. Sudden/new environmental challenges 4. Mismatch between current level of dog training skill and puppy's level of challenge. 5. Over training, lumping, or having unrealistic expectations. 6. Poor socialization or other junenile trauma 7. Too narrow in your training focus (not yet taking in the little details) 8. Fear of making a mistake causes you not to move forward - frustrating the puppy 9. Conflicting rules within the household 10. Genetics, breed, hard wired responses and stage of maturity. Most of these boil down to human error. B, viii - Primary vs Secondary reinforcers: Reinforcers are, as you know by now, a response to a dog operating on its environment that will increase the likelihood that a behaviour will repeat itself. Reinforcers can be broken down into multiple categories: Primary. A primary reinforcer is providing something that the dog wants in reaction to a desirable behaviour. These can be food, toys, access to other dogs, getting to go outside. Not all dogs value the same things, but food is the most universal of all primary reinforcers, and is most commonly the strongest. This is why food is used so often. Secondary A secondary reinforcer is a click or marker word which signals the imminent arrival of a primary reinforcer to which the dog has been classically conditioned. Tertiary A tertiary reinforcer (or tertiary bridge) is a signal that the secondary reinforcer is on its way: "Good, keep doing that and you will get a click." An accomplished trainer will likely use all of the above reinforcement techniques. Primary reinforcers are instantly gratifying and very strong. Secondary reinforcers are intrinsically less gratifying and slightly weaker, and so on. However once you move into secondary/tertiary reinforcers you're able to achieve much more precise, advanced behaviours that would otherwise not be available to you if you focused entirely on primary reinforcers. (Thanks to Rixatrix for this section.) a life less fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Jul 11, 2011 |
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Section C - The Tools of the Trade So, no discussion of dog training would be complete without going over the basic tools. I've tried to cover all tools below, though some I recommend more than others. C, i - The clicker  This is the best of the best in dog training. It is a tiny, inexpensive plastic case with a metal tongue inside. You press it. It clicks. Pretty simple. Clicker training is when you classically condition your dog to associate the sound of the click with an incoming treat (like Pavlov's bell). So when the dog hears the click it knows a treat is incoming. You use the sound of the click to mark the INSTANT your dog does something you agree with. It's faster and more consistent than your voice can ever be, and it taps into the dog's subconscious and speeds learning. Karen Pryor was instrumental in the development and proliferation of clicker training. Here is what she says about why clicker training is so effective: http://www.clickertraining.com/what_is_clicker_training posted:Why is clicker training effective? Here's one of my videos of an example of what you can achieve with clicker training. You should be able to make out the sounds of the click over the music, and you can see me holding a clicker in most frames. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrtww7CPf0c To start out, you want to "charge" the clicker. This means that you're going to spend some time going click/treat click/treat, giving your dog a treat immediately after you click. (The unconditioned stimulus becomes the conditioned stimulus.) You'll want to do this ~20 times in a row at first, maybe 4-5 times a day so you build up this association between the click and food in your dog's mind. The biggest thing to remember is that you will always be pairing a click with a reward for the rest of your dog's life. If the click becomes unassociated with the reward then it becomes white noise to your dog, and it will hold no meaning. (See Extinction, Section A,iii.) These are some good sites for those of you getting started with the clicker: http://www.clickersolutions.com/, http://www.clickertraining.com/ C, ii - The treats  The best training treats are small and soft so they're easy to handle and your dog can eat them quickly. Some people use liver treats, steak, unspiced lunch meats, cheerios, carrots or whatever your dog really likes. Experiment with a bunch of different things, and keep track of favourites. Pull the favourites out when you're working on new or important behaviours. My dog works for kibble, which is great. If I'm training her I'll skip her breakfast and give it to her over the course of the training session. If your dog eats 100 kibble pieces in a meal, that's 100 training opportunities. (Some dogs are less than enthralled with kibble -- it depends on the dog.) Since you'll be using a high volume of food while starting out, it's recommended that you use very small treats. Dogs don't care about the size of the cookie, they care that food is being provided. It's my impression that it's the act of being presented with food that is the most rewarding part for dogs. Most, if not all, treats you buy at a store are going to be too large for training. Even "bite sized training treats" are normally 2-3x too big. Aim for your rewards for larger dogs to be roughly the size of a pea or pinky fingernail. For smaller dogs you can use rewards the size of a pin's head. Trust me, your dogs will be psyched anyways. This is one of the reasons why so many trainers who clicker train have sleek, healthy, not-overweight dogs. The dogs are working for their meals, and/or are being rewarded in very tiny portions. For particularly good behaviour, your jackpot rewards can be 5 tiny pieces of food. To a dog, five tiny pieces is much more rewarding than one piece five times the size. However I find that for some "expensive" behaviors you need to have something better - if your dog performs a difficult recall in a distracting environment, give ten small treats instead of one, or a whole pig's ear, etc. [Thanks Rixatrix!] C, iii - The leash (standard, training, tabs, flexi) The standard leash  Leashes come in a bajillion different colours and materials. The leashes best for training are about 4-6 feet in length, sturdy, easy for you to grab, leather or nylon. Training leash  A lot of the time when it's recommended you have a training leash it means a long, lightweight leash to allow your dog more freedom outside. You can either hold it, or let your dog drag it. These are normally nylon. Leash tab  Leash tabs are short little handles you can attach to your dog's collar. I didn't find a lot of use for these until I started taking agility classes. Now I love them. My dog is off leash while navigating the obstacles, but when I need to hold her still it's just a little more convenient than grabbing her collar. Flexi lead  Flexi leads are retractable long leashes on a spring mechanism. These are NOT RECOMMENDED for the following reasons:
C, iv - The collar (flat, slip, martingale, prong, head, harness, electric) Flat  The flat collar is the most basic of dog collars. It either buckles or latches like a belt, and it lays flat on your dog's neck. These collars are comfortable and make good everyday collars for ID tags, licences etc. *** It is not recommended you ever keep your collar on your dog if you aren't watching it. *** It sounds silly, but accidents happen. Always make a point of removing your dog's collar if you're crating it or leaving the house. (Always ensure there's no way the dog could get loose without ID tags.) Slip  Slip collars are commonly referred to as choke collars, or choke chains. They are not recommended. The idea behind them is that when your dog misbehaves you "check" him with a swift yank and release of the chain. There is a risk of damaging a dog's throat while using these, even when using them properly. Improperly used you can risk limiting a dog's air flow and doing significant damage. Martingale  Martingales are a hybrid between a traditional collar and a slip. The "slip" portion can be either chain or fabric which can tighten when force is applied. These collars are recommended for sighthounds and other dog breeds with heads smaller than their necks since these collars will tighten instead of letting the dog slip out. These can also be used as slip collars are used, with a quick check of the leash. They're an improvement over the typical slip since they will only tighten so far. However, using these collars in this way is not recommended. There are more effective methods of training that don't rely on leash pops. Prong  Prong collars are designed similarly to martingales where they check the dog when pressure is applied to the collar. The prongs inside add additional discomfort so a dog is likely to avoid putting any pressure on it. Suzanne Clothier, who no longer uses prongs in training but wants people to use them correctly, says (emphasis hers): Suzanne Clothier posted:"When properly fitted, the prong collar should be at roughly the mid-way point on the dog's neck, with the chain portion flat, not sagging. Beware those who recommend fitting a prong collar (or any collar) up high, near the dog's ears - their intention is to cause pain by putting the collar in this nerve rich, muscle poor area of great sensitivity." Read the whole article here. It has some good information on successful prong collar training. [Link and quote of Suzanne Clothier provided by Instant Jellyfish. Thanks!] They can be an effective tool to teach loose leash walking, however they MUST be used in conjunction with proper training (not just as a crutch) or the dog is not likely to behave the same way if on a different collar. If you use this collar please remember to remove it before letting your dog off leash at the park. I see a number of dogs playing with these on, and it's not a good idea. Head  Head collars fit around a dog's nose and around the back of their head. They latch either below the jaw or behind the ears. These can be a good tool to control an over-excited or rambunctous dog. If a dog puts pressure on the leash it will only serve to turn its head. These are not muzzles. Be prepared to answer a lot of questions about why your dog is in a muzzle if you choose to use one of these. Be very very careful to never apply swift pressure if a dog is wearing a head collar -- you risk torquing the neck and causing serious damage. Again, as with the prong collar, these are a training tool, and should be used in conjunction with proper training. Try either Canny Collar or Sporn Collar. They're both head halters that attach to the leash behind the dog's head, instead of under the chin (like Haltis or Gentle Leaders). They're preferable to the under the chin designs since there's less risk of injury to the dog's neck if sudden pressure is accidentally applied to the leash. Harness  Harnesses come in a few basic designs -- front clip and back clip. Back clip harnesses are more common and traditional. These are great since they put no pressure on a dog's neck and can be very comfortable to wear. Front clip harnesses are used as tools to alleviate pulling (see image above). If a dog puts pressure on the leash it will only serve to turn its body away from what it's trying to focus on. Again, as with the prong collar, these are a training tool, and should be used in conjunction with proper training. If you're looking for a no-pull harness, you can try the Easywalk or the Sensation (there are many other brands though, so don't limit yourself). I prefer the Sensation over the Easywalk since I find it tends to provide a better fit in the front. Electric  Electic collars, or e-collars are a highly specialized training tool and SHOULD NOT BE USED without proper, face to face training with an accomplished professional. Also, the use of these collars is outlawed in certain areas (Wales, for instance). They deliver an electric shock (aka nick) or a buzz (aka a page) to varying degrees upon the handler keying it into the handheld controller. They range from a tiny shock that feels like a warm sensation, to a HOLY GOD THAT HURT shock meant to "put a dog down" if it's getting into trouble (for instance if a dog starts chasing after game in the field, putting itself and others at risk). These collars have their place in teaching advanced behaviours while at a distance from the handler -- most notably hunting. They SHOULD NOT be used to teach basic obedience, or in lieu of proper training techniques. They're very susceptable to being misused (and the dog abused), so they should be approached only after thorough research. C, v - The target stick  The target stick is a tool that can help build behaviours. I've not used one before, but I'm seriously considering it now that I've watched this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgefxJAjXSM I'll probably make one out of a tip of a fishing rod with some masking tape on the end. Read the section on targeting (Sec B,vi) for the basic idea behind its use. C, vi - The toys (tug, fetch, and others) Toys can be an excellent primary reinforcer. Some dogs are more nuts for toys than food, so use it to your advantage! Toys tend to build drive and excitement, whereas food rewards tend to have a calming effect. Tug  Some dogs absolutely love playing tug. Tug is a great game, and minute for minute, is probably one of the fastest ways to tire your dog out. Some trainers recommend not playing tug for silly reasons (dominance), but I think it's a great option as long as you have a degree of control over your dog. For instance, when I play with my dog, I'll periodically ask her to drop it, and when she complies I reward her with MORE TUG OMG. Dropping it is important, but it shouldn't always signal the end of the game. Fetch  "Fetch" toys (for lack of a better word) can help dogs run themselves ragged. Balls, frisbees, etc are great to play fetch with. I reward my dog with a kibble for almost every retrieval she does to further increase the value of the game. I do this since she's not as crazy about chasing balls as some dogs, but I didn't want to miss out on such a valuable way to drain energy. Miscellaneous  There are some weird dog toys out there. Experiment with a bunch to see what your dog reacts to best. Pictured above is a flirt toy which can help engage a dog's prey drive and tires it out very quickly! C, vii - The crate  Crating is a good way to limit your dog's access to the house when you can't supervise them. A crate should serve as a den -- a safe, warm, happy place they can go to when they're feeling tired, stressed, etc. Some countries do not allow their use, and some people consider them cruel. But used as part of a training regimen they can be very helpful. Dogs who are crate trained handle boarding better, overnight vet visits, etc. Crates are also almost a necessity at dog shows and sporting events. Pet Island's Puppy Megathread goes over the process of crate training in detail. C, viii - The training classes  Training classes are a fantastic way to train your dog. But they don't really train your dog, they train you how to train your dog, which is infinitely more helpful in my opinion. Training classes offer a controlled environment to work with your dog. The more time you spend working with your dog the better a relationship you can have with them. Training classes cover a vast array of subjects, from the most basic of puppy obedience, tricks, off leash skills, etc to competitive sports like competitive obedience, rally, agility, nosework, dock diving, herding and more. I highly recommend you look into classes regardless of how accomplished you might be. There's always someone better out there who can offer you insight on things you might otherwise have missed. The hard part is finding a suitable training facility. The general rule of thumb is to determine whether they use positive reinforcement techniques, and whether the instructor has any advanced performance titles on their dog(s). C, ix - Reference books  When in doubt, read. There are loads of helpful dog training books out there. I've included the names of a few in Section D. C, x - The internet  This is an overlooked resource. Youtube is an amazing place. If you're stuck on a trick or behaviour, search it up on youtube to receive a dozen different videos suggesting a dozen different ways you can teach it. Of course, like anything, there's loads of poo poo interspersed with good advice, so you'll have to determine what will work for you. My favourite youtube dog trainer is https://www.youtube.com/user/kikopup -- check her out. a life less fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Dec 18, 2012 |
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Nov 10, 2010 23:39
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That's a tough call. When you say "food only from responding to x..." are you meaning meals or treats? I know you say he's not interested in kibble as treats, but I'd probably go hardcore NILIF and make him work for every piece at meals. I can empathize about losing your cool easily -- sometimes it's tough to keep playing nice when your dog is out being a total rear end in a top hat. All I can say is that getting visibly frustrated and angry has ZERO benefit (and hence only goes to furthering your frustration) when working with your dog. I've had a few instance where I've just been irritated at Cohen and she's picked up on it, and as a result she is much more difficult to handle. But when I make the conscious decision to flip it around and be sweet as pie to her, the way she responds to me immediately improves. Maybe it's me, maybe it's Cohen, but I just can't bully her around (and ohgod sometimes I want to...). So, see if changing the way you approach Rho helps. It's worked for me, but there's a far cry between a desexed highly biddable Aussie and your more independent, intact boy -- I can understand if you still have trouble. As for your plan, it sounds like you've got it right. I'd work hard to classically and operantly condition his name as a focus cue, and to keep up the reinforcement daily and for a long term. To do it classically, offer food and say his name the moment the food touches his tongue. To do it operantly, say his name and offer a reward each time he orients to you. Do this maybe a hundred times each day for a few weeks, and then you can decrease it to something a bit less, but keep it up for the rest of his life. Good luck! ---- bamzilla or Khelmar, in the off chance you see this, could you modify the thread title to "How do I train my dog to... [Dog Training Megathread]" or something like that? That'd be swell!
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Nov 11, 2010 15:01
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Suncut posted:Maybe not really a "problem" per se, but there's a trick I'd really like to teach to our pup (a 2,5 year old berner). So, I'm sort of in the middle of teaching my dog to retrieve her leash, but I've only been training it half-heartedly so we've not achieved success yet. I always recommend people try a clicker. But you have to understand it's just a marker, just like a "yes" or a "good" or whatever you use for the dog. It's just a bit more precise. If you watch your timing a clicker isn't a necessity, but it will definitely help. So, you want to break the behaviour down into steps. I would create this behaviour mostly through shaping. I'd probably do this in the living room or somewhere comfortable and where the bowl isn't normally placed.
The basic idea is to teach your dog that the bowl is a valuable object, and that she will be rewarded by trading this valuable object to you. As for the verbal recall, what you want to do is to break it down into steps the same way I broke down the bowl retrieve. Start somewhere uninteresting, like your bathroom. I like to bend down at the waist and shuffle back a bit, while at the same time bringing my arm into my chest and saying "come". (Does that make sense?) The bending and shuffling should physically cue your dog to come, and you will condition your dog to associate the sound and the arm movement to mean the same thing. Then start adding distance and distraction, upping the difficulty each time. You're essentially going back to square one to associate the verbal with the physical. Personally I never really separate the two. I would also do as I suggested to Rixatrix a few posts up and classically/operantly condition her to respond to her name. If you successfully do this her name will mean that she's going to be getting a treat, and she should haul rear end to you to get one. Recall should almost always result in a really awesome treat since it's one of the most vital cues you can teach them.
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Nov 11, 2010 19:13
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Suncut posted:Thanks for the reply! So, because I had nothing better to do this afternoon I put together this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE9FzkGouA8 It's an unedited recording of me introducing Cohen to picking up/retrieving a bowl. You can see how I managed to encourage her to interact with the bowl, and how I rewarded her for experimentation. Mouth grabs were given hesitantly since the bowl is metal and not a lot of fun to pick up. But by the very end I was getting grabs/lifts, and that was just a 7 minute session. It would probably have been easier if I were holding the object, but I didn't want to have to focus both on that and the camera. If you see her do the behaviour she's been getting rewarded for, but don't hear me click, it's because I decided to try upping my criteria. Sometimes it's successful, sometimes I have to backtrack a bit. She's done the "look at that" game before, so starting her off was pretty easy. I've also gotten her to step on/in a few different objects, which is why she kept putting her feet in. I just rolled with it. At the end she was getting a little tired/impatient, so it probably would have been wise to cut the session shorter. Also, she'd just had a bath, in case you were wondering why she looked bedraggled. Clickers are fun!
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Nov 11, 2010 22:35
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Kiri koli posted:
I can think of a few things. First, how quickly are you putting her in time out after misbehaving? From what you said it sounds like you let it escalate past barking or past the first bad behaviour. It's tough when you live in an apartment building since I think it's common for dogs to bark while on time outs, and you can't let that go on too long lest your neighbors get angry. You can try using a leash tied to a coffee table (or something similar) for your time outs if the bathroom doesn't work. Honestly, I think the bathroom will end up working better, but it's worth a try. Also, what about giving her the sit command when she's barking or behaving inappropriately? If it doesn't work once, get up to "reset" the exercise and ask for it again. It kind of sounds like she doesn't exactly know that's what she should be doing, even though you think so. And if she does, why has she decided that barking/mouthing is more effective than a sit at soliciting your attention? Were you not rewarding her thoroughly enough for the preferable behaviour? Lastly, look into teaching Psyche calming cues. These are a lifesaver with Cohen. It's essentially a command that means "calm yourself the gently caress down". You start teaching these when your dog is nice and relaxed, maybe getting ready for a nap. You come by and just pet her, massage her, and do anything else that might be soothing for her. Pair it with a nice, sloooow word, like "eaaaaaaasy" (I use "shhhhhhhh..."). Do this each time you're massaging her and the word will begin to be paired up with the mindset. It takes a while, but eventually you can use the word to calm her down a bit if she's bouncing off the walls. I use it when Cohen gets the zoomies and starts barking her head off at me.
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Nov 11, 2010 22:46
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WolfensteinBag posted:a life less, I have to say, I disagree with you on this point. Although obviously the ultimate goal of any training is going to be solid obedience no matter if a reward is involved or not, but this is VERY different with different breeds of dogs. This is very true, and I agree with you to a certain extent. I only have limited exposure with other breeds of dogs, and I've also experienced the frustration when new dogs aren't as biddable as my own. However, I'm going to stick to my guns to a certain extent here and say that the goal of positive reinforcement is to eventually wean the dog off the dependence on treats, and only use them as a nice little bonus from time to time (or when training a new behaviour). It's a lofty expectation, but I think that too many dog owners sell their dogs short on what their dogs can accomplish given the right set of expectations. It's up to the individual dog owner who, say, owns a spitz or a sighthound, to ascertain what their dogs are able to accomplish without selling their dogs short. I think what I envision is the difference between waving a piece of food around and saying "Sparky, come! Come! Come!" and calling for your dog to come and THEN rewarding with food. A dog can expect a reward, but the reward has to come after the behaviour is given. Does that make sense? Rixatrix, I'm going to reiterate what WolfBag has said. The easiest way to approach this is to not let him sniff in the first place. The longer he spends sniffing the more difficult it's going to be for you to interrupt his behaviour. I know he's a hormone addled teenager, so easier said than done, but... I've spent a lot of time with Cohen building up a good Leave It command. She's at 90%+ compliance when she's close to me, but once distance (from me) and duration (of sniffing) are increased she's much, much less reliable. The only way I've gotten a reaction I'm satisfied with is by preempting the sniffing. (And again, my dog will kill for a kibble, so it's easier for me than it will be for you.) Rixatrix posted:You don't need to take brakes with Cohen very often, do you? What you see in that video is fairly normal. She's good at working pretty hard for a solid length of time. In that video I probably spent a bit too long on the one behaviour, however. Normally when I'm teaching her something new we'll spend a few minutes on the new stuff, and then reduce the difficulty by going over old stuff as a "break". I've heard something described as "the rule of 7" or something like that. It was from this woman working with her border collie. Each time she went to grab a handful of treats she would grab 6-7 at a time, work through that handful, and then take her time going to get the next one. Is that the kind of break you're talking about? Again, as WBag says, I'm very lucky to have a dog that likes to work with me as much as she does.
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Nov 12, 2010 14:05
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Hiekka posted:A month ago we got Blanka. She's a mixed-breed, about 1½ years old rescue. The main problem seems to be insecurity, mainly defending the home by barking. A lot of people make the mistake of trying to build a behaviour/consequence chain rather than attacking the issue on an emotional level (operant conditioning vs classical conditioning). I would work at classically conditioning new responses. Make a list of triggers. Whenever these triggers are presented, feed her face. When the trigger appears, food starts. When the trigger disappears, food disappears. Read over the example I gave at the end of the classical conditioning post at the top of this page, and every time I mention "other dog" replace that with "mysterious sound" or whatever sets her off. It doesn't matter what she's doing when the triggers appear (barking, most likely). The only thing you really have to ensure is that she's a) noticed the trigger, and b) she's not so far over threshold that she no longer takes food. If she is over threshold try increasing the distance from the trigger the next time around. This takes a while to achieve, but it will work if you're consistent. So, it sounds like you're on the right track. I just wanted to clarify the steps for you.  Edit: Also, if you're having trouble quieting her down, I think you made the right decision to take her out to the hall to show her. It acknowledges her discomfort, and can assuage it a bit by being able to check it out with you. I do the same thing from time to time. a life less fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Nov 12, 2010 |
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Nov 12, 2010 19:08
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wraithgar posted:Just be careful you don't train her for 'I hear sound, I bark, I get treat.' That's very true. Right now the goal should be making the dog feel better about the sound. When a dog sees/hears something that bothers it it starts freaking out and is no longer operant. It's physically impossible for the dog to learn at this point, as it's just reacting. When you get to a point where your dog becomes operant that's the point where you start training a quiet cue. But it really needs to come after conditioning the emotional reaction.
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Nov 12, 2010 19:49
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Everyone with a barky/reactive dog should watch this video. It's one of the simplest and best examples of counterconditioning that you can find. Counterconditioning a dog to blowing on its face, Dr Yin
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Nov 12, 2010 21:26
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Hiekka posted:Okay, the answer seemed so clear until the reality hit us. The problem is that we can practice the conditioning just fine when we set the situation up ourselves, but we honestly can't hear the stimulus that upsets Blanka most of the time when it happens spontaneously, so we worry we are rewarding her for barking. She usually is in a state where she can take orders somewhat well, and this is probably why we've been using them, to not reward the barking. Right now she is barking/whining at me for treats more than because there would've been something to guard against. As I said, she's pretty intelligent. It's hard to know when to stop rewarding when you don't know the stimulus for sure (though we usually hear the next door open/close at some point, so we have a suspicion it's those sounds). She can still stay alert and barking after the immediate stimulus is gone, because she's upset. Would it help at all to move onto the normal kibble after a while, giving it for commands? Do we just have to bear with this and try to make the controlled training sessions so frequent (many many times a day) that they'll outweigh the spontaneous situations? At this point, she's still whining/barking at me for food. She started this after a couple of times today with barking at an (partially) audible sound. You sound panicked. So take a deep breath and relax. (It's possible she's picking up on your stress, too.) Firstly, it sounds like you're getting ahead of yourself. It takes a lot of time to countercondition properly. I think you have the right answer about doing many many training sessions a day. I'm going to copy/paste part of my addition to the Small Dog Megathread barking section that might apply here. a life less posted:
So, aside from slowing down and not expecting to conquer your dog's barking quickly, I would also suggest upping the exercise she's receiving (as well as some of the other suggestions above). As for the attention barking, you're really just going to have to ignore it. Or you can try training it away the way you were doing before (rewarding for silence) but I'm not 100% sure it's the right approach. (It's hard to tell these things over the internet.) My guess is that if you're able to tire her out more the demand barking will diminish. BiohazrD posted:So how exactly should potty issues be dealt with? I have a puppy that's just under 6 months old and he pretty much craps wherever he wants. When he needs to pee he usually goes to the door and so we don't have many of those accidents but it just seems like he doesn't even try to go outside or hold it with number two. You just answered your own question. At least partially. Housebreaking has been gone over in great detail in the Puppy Megathread, so check it out for more elaborate answers. The basic idea is that when your puppy is out of his crate you're going to have him tethered to you so he can't sneak away and poop in another room when your back is turned. Throw a crazy loving puppy party when he does eliminate outside, and ignore when he has "accidents" inside. If you can't watch him, he should be in his crate. Also, mark down the times of day that your pup poops, and once you've determined the pattern then you'll be able to take him out according to his schedule. It's normally after meals. A fast paced walk does wonders to get the bowels moving.
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Nov 13, 2010 00:56
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Rixatrix posted:This is solid advice. I would however take it even more slowly. If you've had a recall cue previously, it may well have become poisoned, if sometimes coming to you when called has led to bad consequences (i.e. no more play, upset owner etc.). You may want to teach her a completely new cue. Start with her on leash in a very boring environment or in your own home and reward for coming to you from a few feet away. Then very gradually make the distance longer. Everyone has given you solid advice re: recall. I'm quoting this post since it's great advice, and really thorough. I just want to add that you shouldn't assume that just because your dog knows how to recall in the house that she knows to recall outdoors, despite it seeming obvious to us. Dogs do not generalize well, so while a dog might understand that sit means sit in the kitchen, it might just look at you blankly when you ask the same thing in the living room, front porch, street, park, etc. I would start recall from scratch. Start in a boring room and reward like crazy for compliance. Then slowly start adding distractions, but don't add too much too fast. Your goal is to add additional distractions once your dog is responding 90%+ in a certain set of circumstances. Also, don't call your dog unless you're sure it will come. If you call it, and it doesn't come, you've just taught your dog that ignoring you is an option. In a perfect world you don't want this thought to ever cross your dog's mind. If you need your dog to come and you're not sure it will comply, attach a training leash during play and physically go to get the dog. Recall during play is just about the hardest thing to call your dog back from, so that should be last on your list once your dog is solid recalling outside, or with another dog in close proximity, etc. Rixatrix that's great news on Rho. Hiekka posted:still have some questions: Yeah, we have a few folks here on PI for whom crating is not an option. There are always options if that's the case. Regarding your first question, my dog occasionally reacts to big black poodle/waterdog/giant schnauzer looking things while on leash. For the most part I've been classically conditioning her, with some operant conditioning thrown in. When big black dogs get the drop on us and my dog reacts I will quickly run a treat past her nose to get her attention. I then ask for her to sit and focus while I reward her heavily for the focus until the other dog is gone, and I make a mental note to be more vigilant next time. (I also play the "look at that" game where I give her the cue to look at the thing that's bothering her, then back to me for the reward. Being able to see the trigger to keep tabs on it while simultaneously rewarding for focus can be very helpful. I'm not sure how easily you can apply it to your situation, but I thought I'd mention it.) So, I would probably try to quiet her down operantly in the situation you described. Break focus with a treat and then after that reward for the refocus4 on you. I would keep desensitization sessions relatively short -- maybe 5-10 minutes max. Also, read the desensitization section in the first post. Start slow and proceed only when your dog feels okay about the previous step. The barking could have been a reaction to you falling sick and the routine being messed up. Hopefully once she's less stressed about various triggers the changes in routine won't be so alarming to her. a life less fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Nov 13, 2010 |
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Nov 13, 2010 14:01
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rear end Crackers! posted:I've already bought a clicker, and luckily for me, both dogs are incredibly food motivated. I guess my question would be, how hard would it be to "fix" Loki, and where should I start? You've mentioned a few times how subdued Loki is, so it's possible that he'll never be "fixed". I'd do as Rixatrix said and show him that there is no wrong answer, and reward him for creativity. Have you heard of 101 Things To Do With A Box? Give it a quick google. It's essentially a free shaping exercise where you introduce something foreign into the environment and you click/treat the dog each time he interacts with it. You can either have an end goal in mind, or you can just wing it and see where you and your dog end up. Here's Dr. Sophia Yin doing a box exercise with her dog: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0XuafyPwkg A lot of crossover dogs have trouble with these kinds of exercises since they're afraid of giving the wrong answer, but I think that if they 'get' what it is you want them to do it's a tremendous confidence builder. Rixatrix, good idea. I think extinction deserves its own section since it doesn't quite belong in the quadrants section, but is related. I'll give due credit to you. I've not added it yet, but will soon. Edit: Added your suggestions. I lumped extinction in with classical conditioning instead of the reinforcement section, and added a tiny suggestion to read said section after the reinforcement stuff. If I've screwed anything up please let me know. (I've not had my morning coffee yet!) a life less fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Nov 14, 2010 |
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Nov 14, 2010 14:56
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Double post time. I added the Tools of the Trade section where I go over the basic items you'll need to train your dog. Quicklink here.
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Nov 14, 2010 20:11
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notsoape posted:
That is pretty intense. It sounds like a hybrid of the Canine Good Citizenship test and the Companion Dog title (first tier of competitive obedience). Cohen has her CGN, Canine Good Neighbour, which is the Canadian equivalent of the CGC. We had a very lax evaluator, and Cohen received it when she was about 8 months old. That might not have been possible at that point if held to the same requirements as UK GC. Let us know how the testing goes! Is it a common title for people to get? I'm psyched since there aren't too many people on the forums who title their dogs. I think it's a great excuse to spend some quality time working with your animal. Instant Jellyfish posted:st a note about the prong collar. Suzanne Clothier, who no longer uses prongs in training but wants people to use them correctly, says (emphasis hers): Good catch. Thanks for the quote. I added it to the prong collar section and gave you credit. Obviously I'm pretty unfamiliar with the ins and outs of prongs, so thanks for jumping in there.
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Nov 14, 2010 22:34
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notsoape posted:Great thread I'm home now so I've had the chance to pour over some of today's links. notsoape, that book looks really solid. It's written very simply and looks well put together. Also, I adore the cover of that book. It's now a new goal for me to get a photo of my dog like that.  I'll add it to the list of suggested reading. Instant Jellyfish posted:No problem. I've never used one but I know a lot of people do and try to know as much as possible about different methods. I read a big argument about them recently and no one had a good reason for placing them right under the jawline other than that's where it gives the biggest reaction from the dog and I try not to go into training thinking "What will hurt my dog the most?". I went over that article, as well as a few others from Clothier's site. She has some interesting stuff up there. I really like how she stresses that having a good working relationship with your dog is much more valuable than the tools you use. That bond is elusive, but infinitely rewarding once it's formed. I've linked the whole article as you suggested. Thanks again.
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Nov 15, 2010 03:04
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Apidae posted:Two questions! Firstly, I think Catahoulas are prone to deafness since they're a breed that comes in merle, and the irresponsible breeding of two merle dogs results in a high occurrence of deafness. Double merles are mostly white dogs, and a great deal of white dogs have white hair in their inner ear. This lack of pigment in the interior means that the hairs don't transmit sound properly, and they end up atrophying and dying. A deaf dog will be deaf from soon after birth. So if you get him and he isn't deaf yet, I don't think there's any increased chance of him going deaf any sooner than any other breed. Secondly, dogs are masters of body language. It's us humans who prefer to use verbal language. So it's highly recommended that you pair a visual signal with everything you teach a dog. The dog will learn faster, retain information longer, and you can wow your friends by controlling your dog silently by employing hand gestures. When I teach my dog something it's the hand signal I create first, and only once she understands that do I add a verbal cue. I find hand signals pretty self explanatory, but if you'd like some ideas for various signs I can offer up a few. _____________________________________ I'm going to use the rest of this post as a sort of loose leash walking mega-post. Here are three videos that should be helpful in teaching a dog how to walk loosely on leash: How to train your dog not to pull by Kikopup (youtube) No Pulling Problem Solving by Kikopup (youtube) This one is more about the equipment (specifically the no-pull harness and head halter): Leash Walking, Equipment Tips by Kikopup (youtube) The woman who puts together those videos is a great R+ dog trainer, and I agree with just about every thing I see her post. It's often very helpful to see these things in action. Harnesses, collars, leashes, etc are just tools to help train your dog to walk by your side. Ideally, once you've taught your dog to walk at your side there should be no need for a leash (but of course you will still use one in the interest of keeping your dog safe, and obeying local leash laws). So, the following is something I've posted on the forums before about a really great method of how to train a dog to follow you, as opposed to you following it while outside. It's pretty similar to what's outlined in those videos, but does differ a bit. The following is a basic breakdown of the steps to teaching a solid loose leash walk
Again, this is not a heel, just loose lead. But once learned, it can easily be kicked up into a heel. It is also not something you just start outside on your walk. While you may very well be able to use it that way, I think it is more effective if you start small and build. Ok, here is what you do. I am assuming that at this time, your dog knows what the clicker means, so we're ready to move on. (Or, without a clicker, use your sufficiently charged marker word.) If the dog gets overly excited when trying to attach the collar or lead, it would be best to spend several session on just that first. Show him the collar, wait for calm, click and reinforce. Put it on his neck, click when he is calm and treat. Gradually work up to putting it on and having him stay calm. This may take several sessions. Next, work with the leash. Show it to him and wait for him to be calm, then click and treat. When he stays calm, start clipping it on him. Clip it on the wait for him to be calm and look at you, then click and treat. Again, this may take several sessions. I don't start training on walks, I start in my kitchen or basement. Initially, you are not moving very much, so you don't need a lot of room. And let's face facts, if you can't do this in the kitchen, where the dog knows food reinforcers are all around, you will not be able to achieve loose leash outside where there are so many things to compete for your dog's attention. Each step of this exercise should be practiced to 80-90% compliance, then proofed on different locations, gradually raising distractions. It's all about baby steps. Now you are ready to move. Hold the leash in your right hand looped over you last three fingers, the clicker in you right hand between your thumb and first finger and the treats in your left hand because you will be delivering them off your left leg. The reason for delivering them off the left leg is because this is where you want the dog to be. Dogs, like people, will return to the place of the greatest reinforcement. Think of it this way, if I gave you a ten dollar bill everytime you stood on my left, 6-12 inches off my body, parrallel to me, where would you be spending a lot of time? Dogs are no different. Now, move only one step only in either a sideways, back or diagonal direction. If your dog follows, just one step, or follows you with his eyes while remaining in place, click and treat off your left leg. Over the next few sessions, move any direction but forward, one step and click and treat if he moves with you or looks at you. Now you are ready for a few steps, so take two steps, again, avoiding forward and click and treat as soon as he takes two steps with you. He should be moving with you at this point. I find the hardest part is bending over quickly enough to be sure my dogs keep four feet on the floor. Do not click if he is on his hind legs, but if you do click ALWAYS treat. This is where you add a cue. This is not heel, so I use "Let's go". Once you are ready to actually begin walking, I find it best to start out backwards. When you are walking forward, dogs have a tendancy to focus on what is ahead of them. When you walk backwards, they are walking towards you and you are their focus. Now you can begin moving forward. This may take several days or weeks to get to this point. Take three steps, click treat, then go to 4 steps, click treat, then maybe 6 then 10, then...well...you get it. So, that's the basic gist of it. Start slow. Reward often. Good luck! a life less fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Nov 16, 2010 |
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Nov 16, 2010 05:07
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Apidae posted:Plus he's a year old so hopefully we're in the clear. He'll be fine. Seriously. As far as hand signals go, most of mine are artifacts from the training process. As in, they're still sort of similar to the luring or whatever I did when I was teaching my dog something new -- only now they're less exaggerated and a bit more "stylized". Some basic commands and their gestures: Sit = closed fist held on my chest, sometimes paired with a wrist flick. Down = arm held out at my side, palm upwards in a sort of "stop" position -- or a point at the ground, depending on the distance I am from my dog. Stand = palm up held in front of me. Stay = quick pass of my open palm across my dog's field of vision. Come = arm held out to the side, then brought in quickly to my chest. Heel (to get into heel position) = left arm held straight down and against my body, hand outstretched. Heel (while moving) = left arm bent at elbow, held tight to stomach. Back up = hand bent at the wrist, in a "scoot away from me" type of gesture. Now, some of the tricks: Bow = arm extended low, like I'm a performer bowing to my partner. Beg = closed fist, arm in front of me held out from my body a few inches. Stand on two legs = both arms up Touch my hand as a target = a snap then an open hand. Speak = a quickly opened hand. Scoot (run to me, spin 180 degrees and get between my legs) = quick flick of the wrist while moving my arm up and forwards.
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Nov 16, 2010 14:53
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Kiri koli posted:I have another training question. Psyche is very good at standing up on her hind legs and balancing (she watched for a squirrel standing up for like 30 seconds the other day, it was soooooo cute). I'd like to figure out how to get her to do that on command, but before I do, I'm wondering if that's bad for her legs. It's an unnatural position and she'll small so I don't want to force her to strain herself. She already does plenty of things where she's liable to hurt herself (like falling up stairs and acting like a mountain goat on our furniture). Her legs should be fine. It does stress the hip joints and requires a lot of core strength to achieve, so if she's ever hesitant to stand on two legs then I wouldn't press the issue. Teaching Cohen this was done in two parts. First I was trying to teach her to beg (which I had been unsuccessful with for months, but finally accomplished using a spoon coated in peanut butter as a lure) and one day, after she'd recently learned beg, she was really excited and stood up instead. I captured that behaviour (you can see some of the work I was doing on it in this video) and put it to a cue. The cue is "be people" 'cause I think it's adorable. A lot of people have trouble with it since, as I mentioned, it requires a lot of core strength and you need to build to it gradually. But it sounds like Psyche already has the capability so it's just a matter of catching it. Try the wooden spoon coated in peanut butter trick. It forces the dog to maintain a position in order to continue being rewarded.
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Nov 17, 2010 22:27
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Kiri koli posted:
Try Orijen 6 Fish. When I open a new bag and the fishy smell is all fresh Cohen goes nuts for it. For walks I use a mix of that (her normal kibble) and dried liver (home made or purchased). Sometimes I throw some cheese or dried hotdogs into the mix, but it sounds like you use those for special rewards.
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Nov 18, 2010 03:19
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panictheory posted:So I have a quick question. What is the best age to start advanced training with a puppy? Do they respond to the clicker at an early age or should that be saved until they are more mature? Puppies can have sit and down mastered by about 10 weeks. Stay and come happen soon after that. What sort of advanced training are you thinking about? Walking at heel on leash is probably the hardest thing to achieve -- it takes a good ~6 months of consistent work to get it almost perfect. Everything else can be mastered pretty early. Regarding clicker training, it can be tough to learn how to use it properly (timing, etc) so if you start young both you and your dog can learn together.
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Nov 19, 2010 02:33
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panictheory posted:It's important, for now, that she learns heel, come, stay and drop it. We have a large gated backyard that has a variety of fun wildlife for her to chase after, so being able to tell her to stop what she's doing and come sit next to me is going to be important. We also have a great dog park here in town and I want to be able to bring her there and know she will listen to me! Yeah, from time to time I update a list I have. Last count, she's at about 60 different commands, but it's not been updated recently. The videos I put together also help me keep track of what she learned when. I recommend, on top of working on the commands you mentioned, work on basic self control exercises, like waiting to eat a meal, sitting before entering and exiting the house, and "It's Yer Choice" drills. (Sorry for the unsolicited advice, I know you didn't ask for suggestions specifically.)
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Nov 19, 2010 02:47
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B!G_$W@NG@ posted:I have recently become interested in perhaps pursuing a career as a dog handler for police/military/contractor (drug/bomb sniffing dog, etc.). Unfortunately, information on such a path seems to be rather sparse (after perusing the usual search engines) and so, thus far, do open positions. Still, I figured I'd ask SA as I figured there's bound to be someone out there who knows more about this. As with most dog training careers, I think the best place to start would be tracking down someone who trains both sport dogs (Schutzhund) and personal protection dogs (PPD)/police dogs and apprenticing under them. It's probably a difficult field to break into, and my guess is that it operates heavily on word of mouth. Start asking around sporting dog groups to see if you can track down any names of PPD trainers. It probably would take years to become well versed enough in high end dog training for you to be able to move on to police/military/contractor work. Sometimes your best resumé is your own dog. If you can start work on Schutzhund/scenting with it you might be able to start networking that way. So, my impression is that it's not a field you just start in. It's likely a long process that won't be financially rewarding until you hit the upper echelons (if then). But, if you do opt to pursue this path, network network network. Edit: I spoke to my boyfriend, who's familiar with how the police work, and you have to be an officer before you can interact any way with the K9 unit. a life less fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Nov 20, 2010 |
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Nov 19, 2010 13:36
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Apidae posted:I'm trying to train my roommates' puppy but my daily schedule is pretty inconsistent due to classes and homework. I'll have some days with several hours free to train, and some days with maybe 20 minutes, and I'm more likely to use that time to play with him or go for a run just to blow off some steam so he isn't insanity personified in the evening. The puppy is a 4 month old MinPin X Chihuahua. Training sessions should be ~3-5 minutes at this age (for most dogs you never really want to go over 10 minutes in their lifetimes). Have maybe 4 training "sessions" a day, and keep it fun and stress free. I don't think you're confusing him by having fun days and more serious days, as long as all his needs are being met. I imagine that when your schedule is busy your roommate is still around to exercise/interact with the pup, right? Puppies' (and dogs') learning isn't restricted to training sessions, they're constantly learning behaviours based on your reactions. So training proper manners doesn't have to go out the window when you're having fun with him, and vice versa. Keeping this in mind is good to prevent you from letting training slip. It sounds like you're doing a great job with him so far. Congrats! Also, I wholeheartedly recommend agility! It's an amazing sport, a lot of fun, and can be a tremendous bonding experience. Plus, it's rare to see toy breeds participating since most people don't put in the time and energy to train them up to that degree. You can start working on the basics now (focus, off leash control, basic obedience), but you'll not be able to really start the interesting stuff until the pup is 12-18 months old.
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Nov 24, 2010 16:02
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Kiri koli posted:Has anyone here ever used a Thundershirt? My trainer just ordered a bunch at wholesale because she's heard good things. So we got one. It's a doggie wrap that supposedly comforts the dog by wrapping them in a reassuring pressure. According to reviews on Amazon, they really work for things like dogs who are afraid of thunderstorms and such. The website claims it can work for any anxiety and can be used in training. It really depends on the dog. Thundershirts work for some dogs amazingly well, and have little to no effect on others. I'm not too sure how it will work for day to day anxiety, as I've only really heard them being used for thunder storms, fireworks, etc. You'll have to let us know if it works for Psyche. Good stuff work on the walk. Just keep the training up too, since sometimes people experience a honeymoon period when they switch to a new tool where their dog acts particularly well, but it doesn't always last.
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Nov 25, 2010 00:35
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DenialTwist posted:Not really a training question, but more I figured I would ask here since it involves clickers and such. I'm looking for good free shaping clicker games to play with Maverick. Right now we've mostly been mostly playing with boxes like put a foot in the box, put your head in the box, carry the box, ect. ,but I would really like ideas on shaping smaller behaviors like this to get her more comfortable with the idea that messing up is okay. She doesn't really shut down ,but if she isn't reinforced often enough (even when not offering a good behavior) she looses interest and walks away. I don't do nearly as much shaping as I should, but here's my two cents on it. Start introducing other foreign objects into Maverick's environment, like a blanket, a book, or whatever you have handy. You can approach it the same way you do with the box, encouraging experimentation and making it fun. I know with Cohen sometimes I have to keep her amped up through a lot of excited verbal cues, and over time she understands "nope" and "try again" (though, shaping purists would argue that this sort of negative feedback is unnecessary). I offer a lot of verbal encouragement. I also sometimes switch up the reward from food to a toy. For example, I'm currently shaping the weave poles with my dog using the 2x2 method. I've tried a lot of different rewards, and the best I've found is to encourage her interacting/walking through the two weaves and then throwing a toy which I then exchange for food. Cohen prefers food to toys, so I keep food as the primary reward, but I use the toy as a secondary reward and to keep her amped up. So, maybe try a toy to keep Maverick's interest up, and then rewarding the toy drop with a treat. I find I get stuck with my dog offering the same behaviours over and over again. I taught her to stand on an object on the ground, so each time I introduce a new object she spends quite a while standing on it in various ways, trying to tell me, "No, I'm meant to stand on it. You seem to be confused. Here, let me stand on it again to show you." Check out this link: Introduction to Shaping. At the end of it they go over something they refer to as Body Parts, where you capture an unconscious body movement and build on it. It sounds like it could be fun, and I might try it myself.
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Nov 25, 2010 15:00
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Arcane posted:As Spike has gotten older (10 months) he definitely requires a lot more exercise. Spike has learned to hop over the dog fence, chew through the back yard fence and takes himself out on walks in the park behind our house. He always comes home but I am scared someone will see a pittbull and take him. The other problem is both Spike and Buster get crazy around other dogs. They start barking and 'attempt to play' but other dogs usually get scared. We had an incident where they got out and there were other smaller dogs out in the neighborhood. Spike ended up biting two smaller dogs. So we have a vet bill to take care of. We've fixed the fence so they can't get out and are on a better exercise schedule. Firstly, I think you need to acquaint yourself a bit better with pit bulls' instincts and genetic tendencies. Just as border collies were bred for centuries to have an innate desire and competency to herd, pit bulls were bred to hunt and fight. It is not unusual for a pit bull to develop dog aggression once it approaches maturity. There are dozens of lists around the internet about how to properly care for and manage your pit. Here's one that covers the basics. Some highlights:
Please please reconsider leaving your dogs unattended in the back yard now that they've shown you they can escape from it. Hopefully you've already chosen to do this since you've been hit with the vet bills that were the result of letting Spike roam. I don't doubt that a lot of the "aggression" is indeed play behaviour, but that level of excitement can easily result in conflict. So, in my opinion you shouldn't strive to make your dogs social. Dogs don't have to greet or get along with every dog they meet. What they have to do, however, is be calm and non-reactive to strange dogs. Read this article on dog tolerance levels: Bad Rap - Understanding Different Dog Tolerance Levels. Bad Rap is a great pit bull resource, and I suggest you pour through it if you have the time. To get your dogs to a point where they're non reactive you're going to want to approach it via counterconditioning. It might also be a good idea to walk them separately since they likely feed off each other's excitement. So, while walking them, the moment they see another dog present some really awesome treats. Do this each and every time you see a dog -- be consistent. If your dog won't eat, you're too close to the other dog and you'll have to turn around and reset the exercise. You want the appearance of other dogs to be the signifier of good things. After you get the ground work laid and your dog is less reactive to other dogs at a distance I would start working on focus. Start indoors with very little distractions, and when your dog meets your gaze, click and treat (or mark with a "yes" or whatever your marker word is, then treat). Once your dog is consistently meeting your gaze, start adding a verbal cue to it, and start working on distance and duration. In baby steps, work on getting your dog to look at you (and not break the focus) until you say so. On top of that, once you have the focus, you can start playing the "look at that" game. If your dog is nervous get him in a focus and then try to encourage him to look at what's bothering him. When he does that, click and treat (or "yes" and treat) which should bring his focus back to you where you reward him for looking back at you. It tends to calm dogs down if they can glance at what's bothering them from time to time. Anyways, that's my two cents. There are a number of pit owners on these forums who might jump in with better advice. Check out the Bully Breed Thread for more information if someone else doesn't jump in here.
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Nov 26, 2010 16:19
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tsc posted:We have our dog to sit and 'wait' before she goes out any door (including the car), on leash or off. While she is really, really good at it when someone is with her (door wide open, other dogs and people going in and out is no problem), if she just sees an open door, she'll go through it, just barely pausing on the way out. You can do this pretty simply by starting the training sessions with someone next to her, and then you start upping the distance and duration of the behaviour you're asking for. So, "don't go out the door" applies when there's someone standing next to you, when there's someone standing 2 feet away, 6 feet away, 10 feet away, etc. Then break line of sight -- 2 seconds out of sight, 5 seconds, 10, 30, etc. (You'll probably have to break this down into smaller increments, but you get the idea.) You're essentially working on a really good "stay" command (with or without the actual verbal cue). You want to keep a high rate of reinforcement up when the door is open and your dog is choosing not to exit it. Reward her for choosing to ignore the open door. There's probably a better way to train this. I've been anxiously waiting for the follow up to Kikopup's Barrier Training Video but she's not uploaded it yet. If I see it posted I'll let you know. Watch that video I linked for an idea of what barrier training can look like. Sorry I don't have a better method to offer right now. With me I can't 100% trust my dog not to bolt after a squirrel she sees through an open door, so I don't risk it, and always keep tabs on her if a door is open. One of the best things to remember when training your dog is to always set them up for success -- don't push them beyond their capabilities since it can only end in frustration on both of your parts.
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Nov 28, 2010 04:34
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RizieN posted:Ok, so Cosmo is pretty good at picking up on things...but I just can't get him to heel. Maybe its because I'm in the apartment when I try it? It sounds like you're leaving too much time between reinforcements. Keep up a steady flow of food into the dog's mouth for this one. Have you tried the tactic I outlined in the Loose Leash Walking post? If not, definitely give it a try. I taught Cohen using a slightly different method though, so if you're having trouble with that, try this. I feel that this is more of a way to teach walking at heel instead of loose leash walking, which is both good and bad. So, I'm standing there with Cohen on my left side. I take a step forward while at the same time hunched down with a hand full of treats in her face, popping them into her mouth one at a time. This is just to give the dog the idea that if they move with you they get food. Then try taking multiple steps, as many as you can while still keeping the dog's focus on all the awesome stuff in your hand. The next stage looks kind of funny. While walking pop a reward into the dog's mouth then quickly move your hand to your left hip bone then immediately back to your dog's mouth for another reward. (I'll take this opportunity to remind you that you should be giving the treats with your left hand.) It looks like a silly dance move. This is to get the dog used to looking at you while walking (even if it's just your hip and hand). Gradually increase the pause between returning to your dog's mouth as he begins to understand the game. The rules are: 1. stay on my left side, 2. look at me. If the dog follows the rules he profits. Think about heel position as the dog begging in motion. After you get to that part it's really just a matter of upping distance, distractions and duration. A focused heel takes a long time to teach (months). It's also really taxing on the dog so don't ask for it for a prolonged period of time. Play a game where you pick landmarks where you want the dog to heel between them (lightposts, whatever) and ask for it then let them relax and be a dog between exercises. The downside to this is that I've been finding it difficult to get Cohen to maintain proper position when she's not focused on me. She tends to forge ahead when not focused (luckily she doesn't pull, she just doesn't position herself perfectly). I try not to ask for her focus all the time, but she tends to give it to me without me asking (which is great, don't get me wrong, but it's not exactly what I want). You mention you're having trouble turning to your right. Dogs don't generalize well, so go back to basics (of having food continuously in his face) to work him through his trouble spots, then work your way up. Hiekka posted:An update on how we're doing: It sounds like you're doing pretty well. These things take time, so keep with it. I don't think I would have thought to use the clicker in that way, but it's so precise it's well suited to your strategy. Good luck!
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Dec 4, 2010 17:01
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moechae posted:So to do a tl:dr, How can I train my hugely food motivated beagle to never jump up on counters with tons of delicious food on them? Unfortunately there's not much you can do to effectively curb this behaviour. Once your dog has ascertained that the counter is more rewarding than abiding by the rules this becomes a very difficult habit to break. Your number one goal should be management. Get your folks to keep the food off the counters. Your parents can't realistically expect a dog to ignore readily available food when he's successfully eaten it in the past. There is some debate over how conscious dogs are of "bad" behaviour, but he definitely understands that the reinforcer is available on top of the counter and the punishment is not present. Obviously retroactively reprimanding your dog will have zero effect. Another management goal is to not allow your dog to wander unsupervised. You can tether him to you, or set up some gates or closed doors that keep him separate from the temptation. Then, to help put your parents at ease work on a really solid "leave it" command. Realistically you should be able to get your dog to the point where you can tell him to leave food alone for a minute while you're in the other room. Any longer and you're probably asking too much of a food lovin' beagle. Finally, the last management technique I'll suggest is allowing your dog to gorge before you arrive at your parent's house. It sounds kind of silly, but dogs stomachs are designed to hold massive amounts of food. When we portion out kibble into small meals a few times a day, dogs' stomachs (apparently) never really stretch out and they don't get that full feeling. It results in a lot of food seeking behaviours. You can't healthily let a dog gorge on kibble, but you can let him gorge on raw meat. A lot of raw feeders use the binge/fast style of feeding. I read this on a raw feeding forum a while back and I haven't personally put this to the test. It just seems like it could help, assuming your dog is accustomed to the protein source. (If not... diarrhea.) Emasulatrix posted:Basically, my questions are: The "charges straight to [the other dog] to attack" part of your post gives me pause. Can you tell why your dog is reacting the way he is? Is he nervous? Is it all male dogs? Females? Is he neutered? What other signals does he give prior to getting in fights? Was this "very playful and friendly" dog acting particularly energetic or submissive? Without knowing more I can't answer your questions 100%, but I'll try my best. Firstly it's not uncommon for dogs to get into scrapes at dog parks. This tends to be because the owners are standing around and not necessarily watching their dogs' behaviours. There's a large number of dogs milling around forced (to a degree) to interact when they maybe shouldn't. What I recommend (and what I do with my dog since she can be too "in your face" for a lot of dogs) is to walk with him. It sounds like you're on the right track by going to the beach since there's more space and less forced interaction. My dog behaves wonderfully when we meet other dogs at the beach or on the trail -- sometimes they'll greet each other, play or whatever, sometimes they'll ignore each other. While you're at the beach, are you moving a fair amount? Are there paths to walk? If not, are there other places like that where you can go? Most dogs are aggressive because they're insecure. They're overcompensating for their anxiety that's created when other dogs (or people, depending on the case) are present. So, with that said, I'm going to quote the books I posted on the first page that are catered to fear and aggression. quote:Scaredy Dog by Ali Brown Those books all deal with counterconditioning your dog to the presence of others. I've also written quite a bit about classical conditioning in this thread which might help you. (Make the presence of other dogs the predictor of good things.) He might outgrow it. I would actively try to train him out of it, however. Some dogs are just aggressive and cannot be trusted 100% off leash. Some dogs can be managed easily once you've identified their triggers. As far as other ways to tire him out, the best and most effective way to tire out a reactive dog is nosework. There's a thread on these forums about starting up in it. You can get started in it on your own if you read up on it, or there are loads of classes available. Other ways to tire out a dog: hide and seek (I tell my dog to stay, I go hide then call her, she seeks), trick training, jogging, fetch in tennis courts or other enclosed areas, dog sports and more.
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Dec 4, 2010 21:44
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Emasculatrix posted:Is there a particular book from that list you recommend starting with? I'd probably start with Click to Calm by Emma Parsons and Fight by Jean Donaldson. It sounds like it might have started with rude behaviour making your dog feel anxious and threatened, and now he's not taking the chance to have other dogs threaten him and his aggression in the result. I would do everything you can to limit unleashed greetings between your dog and others. I think right now you would want your goal to be for Comet to ignore other dogs, or better yet look to you for reinforcement when in their presence. Each time he's allowed to repeat the behaviour the more ingrained it becomes. I don't say this spitefully, or with intention to hurt, but it's irresponsible to allow your dog off leash and out of your control when you feel there's a chance that he'll not only get in a fight, but pin another dog. I 100% understand the desire to continue giving him exposure and hoping for the best, but I don't think that's wise. You're on the right track leashing him when you see other dogs who you expect will trigger a reaction. Just be more proactive. So, to reiterate, your goal should be for him to ignore other strange dogs. Work on off-leash control and recalls (which it sounds like you're doing... continue 'em). Ask for eye contact/focus when around other dogs. Hopefully one of those books will set you on your way. Once you've desensitized him you might be able to successfully reintroduce off leash greetings of strange dogs, but it might be a ways off.
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Dec 4, 2010 22:29
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sweetheartjess posted:I have a silly question about the point of "free shaping." Do you guys use command words for that or just... let them at it? Do you name the "two feet in the box" trick something? Or is it just designed purely to stimulate the dogs brain (and everything else that goes along with it)? It really depends on what works for you and your dog. Shaping purists won't give any feedback aside from the click -- no encouraging words -- and they get their dogs to problem solve what it is they want. They have a clear vision of what they want their dogs to end up doing. I tend to give a lot of feedback to keep my dog engaged. I'll throw out a lot of happy "try again"s etc. I sit my dog down and ask her "what are you going to do?" and then she starts offering behaviours. So, I guess that phrase is my command. I didn't intentionally teach it, but that's what my dog learned the cue was. If you're just starting out don't bother saying anything, just click/treat if the dog glances over in the direction of the object you want it to interact with. One thing about all dog training is that you don't really name a behaviour until the dog is doing it reliably. Prior to the naming, you build your behaviours through luring, capturing, shaping etc. So, say you get the "two feet in the box" trick and you want to use it again in the future. By all means name it and get it under stimulus control. (When you do start naming behaviours, say the word as the dog performs the action. Not before.) Even if you don't name it, your dog is likely to offer the two feet in the box behaviour the next time you bring the box out since it will remember that was a rewarding position. So, it's really up to you.
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Dec 6, 2010 14:18
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sweetheartjess posted:I've never heard that you're not supposed name a behavior until they do it reliably. Obviously you don't name it from the get-go (cause "sit" sounds exactly the same as "encyclopedia") but once you've got the attention / look at me thing down, wouldn't you want to introduce the verbiage/signage as early as reasonably possible? The reason, for me, is twofold. One, it's best to keep things as simple as you can for the dog while it's learning. Why rush to add a cue when the dog is still figuring things out? Dogs are much more accomplished at understanding physical cues than verbal, so play to their strengths while keeping distractions lower. Once the dog is performing the behaviour consistently it's the better opportunity to start introducing the word. Two, you can poison your cue. Ever hear someone calling for their dog to come at the dogpark, while their dog happily ignores them? "Sparky, come! Come! Sparky come! Come! Come!" The word (and the dog's name) are becoming white noise to the dog since there is no reinforcement occurring to relate the word to the action in the dog's mind. Some people can poison a cue so badly that a dog will never respond to a particular word and the handler has to use a different one to get the desired behaviour. This is an extreme example of cue poisoning, but essentially you want your dog to try to understand everything you're saying, and not write anything off as background noise.
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Dec 6, 2010 19:01
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Arbor posted:It made me wonder about working with one dog in front of another. Should I find different noises to serve for the different dogs? I don't want the clicker noise to become meaningless for them, but I also don't want to take my attention away from whoever I've working with by giving someone else treats. Generally I'll probably continue to work in one on one situations, away from the other dogs, but it seems like something I ought to think about. Regarding the clicker, I know some people use different clickers for different dogs. I've never trained two dogs simultaneously so I don't know for sure. I feel like a dog should be smart enough to know when you're directly working with it and rewarding it, but it could get confusing for captured behaviours. I think there are electronic clickers that have multiple click sounds for multiple dogs (each gets their own) but I don't know much about them. I think you're fine sequestering yourself in another room, but if you can get two distinct sounds all the better. The way I would have approached that off-leash situation would have been by asking for my dog to sit, stay and focus on me while the other dog approached. This isn't easy, so you'd have to already have worked on focus in distracting situations. In my experience, if another dog comes up and is barking, if you and your dog just focus on each other without moving and shifting around then it will quickly get bored and stop its behaviour. Just work on keeping your dog calm and rewarding his focus. I feel that if he can turn to you in these stressful situations it can only help the bond between the two of you. However, I've been called naive on a number of occasions. Some dogs can charge with the intent to hurt your dog. If I felt it was one of those situations I would probably do as you did and just keep myself in between the two dogs to keep yours safe. I feel that this approach might be more stressful for your dog, but is also safer if the other dog has intention to hurt.
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Dec 8, 2010 23:04
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My dog used to have the really (really really really) annoying habit of barking to be let out of her crate early in the morning. Ignoring it was tough, since she pretty much proved that she would go for an hour or more just "yip.... yip.... yip". One day in a fit of desperation I shouted for her to quiet down, and it worked. So I kept doing it. Some mornings were more successful than others, but I think I was communicating to her that, yes, I hear you -- no, you're not getting out. I'm not sure if this is good advice, but I'm going to suggest you acknowledge the barking but don't capitulate to your dog's demands. Otherwise I fear that the dog just assumes that you can't hear it and it'll try harder. For the other stuff, increase the exercise your dog is getting (try doubling it for a week and see how it impacts on her behaviour), and offer more varied things for her to chew. She's probably teething. Also try recreational bones and bully sticks to keep her busy when she's alone. And lastly, if Maggie isn't going to stand up for herself it'll probably be helpful for you to step in when you feel play is getting too rough. A dog who's well versed in gentle play will be much easier to deal with in the future. Just be sure your dog understands she needs to calm down and that you're not joining in on her game.
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Dec 9, 2010 15:47
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Emasculatrix posted:While I'm waiting for the books to arrive, I might as well ask another question. This hasn't been a huge concern so far, but I'd also like to curb my dog's separation anxiety. He didn't have it when we got him, but now he'll bark if I go inside the store, or to the restroom in a public place. It's annoying, and I'm not sure how to stop reinforcing the behavior, since eventually I have to go get him. How do I fix this? Behaviour quirks emerge as the dog settles into his environment. Don't fret that you've ruined him! For the barking when you go into a store, I would start training a really awesome sit/stay (or down/stay). Start slow with an easy environment, and ask for a ~5 second stay, and when he's got that down up the requirement to 10, then 15, then 30, then 45... 1 minute, 5 minutes... you get the idea. If you start slow and don't up the criteria too fast you should be able to build a pretty good stay in your living room. Try breaking line of sight while you work on it. Then start in a new environment with a reduced time then work your way up again. Continue introducing this behaviour in new environments, etc. Just think of leaving him outside of the store as a long stay. Start slow and work your way up.
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Dec 9, 2010 23:46
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themindisonfire posted:Oh, and does anyone have a suggestion on quieter clickers? I've got one from PetCo and it seems like it's so loud my ears ring sometimes. You can also buy some sticky tack and stick it on the curved part of the metal tongue to soften the sound a bit. Try saying "Yes" (or Good or Hai or Oui or whatever). Keeping your marker word one syllable makes it more precise -- the same way a click is more precise than a marker word. Levitate posted:How do people usually start getting their dog to ring a bell when they need to go out, and what kind of bell do they use? A desk bell, a string of bells that the dog jingles, etc? I've not used bells before, so I can't really offer too much help on that. I'd probably start with teaching your dog to touch target your hand with her nose. This is super easy to teach (it was the first thing Cohen ever learned). Just rub some food on the palm of your hand, and your dog will naturally want to sniff it. You can capture this behaviour easily with a clicker then start moving it on to new objects. Once you have the hand target down, you can place a sticky note on your hand and get her to target it, then when she's got that down, move the note and build up the touch behaviour again. Move it to the hanging bells and reward with a treat and access to the outdoors when she gets it. Ask for a bell target each time she looks like she wants to go out. Some people just leave the bells hanging there and hope that the dog figures it out, but I'd want to teach it specifically. The bells most people use look like a string of Christmas bells hanging at dog level. I hear it's hard to avoid the dog using the bells for both "I gotta pee" situations and "I wanna chase that cat". For the loose leash walking, the left side is, as you guessed, the default position for competitive obedience. There are other historical reasons for them to be on that side, but pretty much now the only reason we continue teaching on the left is because that's just how it's done. You're more than welcome to teach your dog to walk on your right side. When she gets it you can actually teach different commands for different sides -- I use "heel" for left and "side" for right (as in other side). If you do Rally you'll want to work on a proper left-side heel, yes, but it boils down to whatever you prefer. Cohen naturally walks on my left side now, but I don't normally specify and she's welcome to walk on my other side if she feels like it. It's good to allow the dog the freedom since walking focused on you kind of torques a dog's back a bit and can cause muscle strain. It's best to try to balance it out. Even if you have no plans for Rally or whatever, I definitely recommend a nice heel or side command. I use it to keep my dog out of the way of other people. It's especially handy if we're inside waiting somewhere and Cohen starts getting fidgety. It's an easy way to keep her out of trouble. Plus, people get really impressed if you can send your dog to your side with a quick signal.
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Dec 14, 2010 19:27
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Kiri koli posted:Does anyone have an opinion on the use of medication to help with training? I wish I had more experience in medicating dogs. On one hand, I wouldn't interpret her slow progression as a deficiency on her part (or yours), but as simply part of the CC process -- meds may not be necessary. On the other, if your trainer and vet agree, then I could see it helping. Who's your trainer again? Can I do a quick snoop of his or her website? Please let us know what you decide. If you do opt to medicate, could you report back with your experience a few months down the line? I'd love to hear how it works, if it does. Maybe try posting in another thread? (Or make a new one.) This thread isn't as high traffic as some, so you might stand a better chance getting some responses that way.
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Dec 19, 2010 06:07
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