My dog is smarter than your honor student: the Dog Training Thread

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notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Great thread :3:

! Gotta pimp an awesome book I picked up when I was a kid,

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...epage&q&f=false

It's called 'communicating with your dog' and from what I remember it's a really well structured way to train your dog through to a pretty high standard. You cover the basics first, then move onto showier 'trick' commands. It also covers a few common problem behaviours. Some of the methodology is probably a bit outdated since I picked it up in the mid/late 90s, but all in all it's a pretty sound book iirc.

Has anyone else heard of/used this book? I never see it mentioned.

Also; I'm waiting for a callback from a local group to see if there's a Good Citizen training course starting up soon for Dan :3:

. The UK GC scheme is way more intense than the US - here's the requirements for the highest, Gold, Award:

quote:

Description of Exercises
Exercise 1 - Road Walk
The object of this exercise is to test the ability of the dog to walk on a lead under control on a public highway beside the handler and for the handler to determine the speed of the walk. This exercise should be carried out at a suitable outdoor location and an occasional tight lead is acceptable. The handler and dog should walk along a pavement, execute a turn, then stop at the kerb where the dog should remain steady and controlled. On command they should proceed, observing the Highway Code. When reaching the other side they should turn and continue walking, making a few changes of pace from normal to slow or fast walking pace. The handler and dog will return across the road to the starting point of the exercise. Distractions should be incorporated such as passing vehicles or bicycles, people, wheelchairs, prams, pushchairs, etc. Note: The turns are only tests of ability to
change direction.

Exercise 2 - Return to Handler�s Side
The object of this exercise is to be able to bring the dog back under close control during a lead free walk. With the dog off lead and not less than 10 paces away, upon instruction, the dog will be called back to the walking handler�s side and both should continue together for approximately ten paces. Note: A dog moving loosely at the handler�s side, under control, is quite acceptable and there is no requirement for a halt to complete the exercise.

Exercise 3 - Walk Free Beside Handler
The object of this exercise is for the dog to be kept close to the handler�s side as may be necessary on a walk in the park. This is a test of control whilst walking with a dog off lead beside its handler for approximately 40 paces. Competition heelwork is not the aim, but is acceptable. Therefore, it is only necessary for the dog to be kept loosely beside the handler. Two changes of direction will take place and there will be the distraction of another handler passing with a dog on a lead. Upon instruction the handler will attach the lead to finish to the test. Note: Changes of direction are right and left turns without formality.

Exercise 4 - Stay Down in one Place
The object of this exercise is that the dog will stay down on the spot while the handler moves away for two minutes both in and out of sight. This stay will be tested off lead and handlers should place their dogs in the down position. During the test the handler will be asked to move out of sight for approximately half a minute. While in sight handlers will be approximately ten paces away
from their dog. Note: This exercise is a test to see if the dog will stay down in one place without changing position.
Exercise 5 - Send the Dog to Bed
The object of this exercise is to demonstrate control such as might be required in the home. The handler may provide the dog�s bed, blanket, mat, or an article of clothing, etc. The handler should place the dog�s bed in a position determined by the Examiner. The handler will stand approximately ten paces from the bed. Upon instruction, the handler will send the dog to bed where the dog will remain until the Examiner is satisfied the dog is settled. Note: The dog is not being sent to bed in disgrace. Where possible this exercise should be tested indoors. The bed used should be suitable for the dog under test and no inducement e.g. toys or food should be used during this exercise.

Exercise 6 - Stop the Dog
The object of this exercise is for the handler to stop the dog at a distance in an emergency situation. With the dog off lead and at a distance, not less than approximately ten paces away, the handler will be instructed to stop the dog on the spot in any position.
Note: The dog should be moving and is expected to respond straight away to the stop command, but if moving at speed, will be allowed a reasonable distance to come to a stop.

Exercise 7 - Relaxed Isolation
The object of this exercise is for the dog to be content when left in isolation. During such times the dog should not become agitated, unduly stressed or defensive. The handler should fasten the dog to an approximate two metre line and then move out of sight for between two - five minutes as directed. Alternatively, the dog may be left in a room on its own, provided undetected observation can take place. Examiners should choose appropriate venues when conducting this exercise. Any number of dogs may be tested at the same time provided they are isolated at different locations. It is acceptable for the dog to move around during
isolation, however should the dog whine, howl, bark, or indulge in any disruptive activities it should not pass this exercise. Note: Dogs should be tested for their relaxed demeanour in isolation without any prior controls being imposed by the
handler. This is not a stay exercise but handlers may settle their dogs before leaving. This is a practical test and no inducement e.g. blankets, toys or food should be used during this exercise.

Exercise 8 - Food Manners
The object of this exercise is for the dog to be fed in an orderly manner. The handler will offer food to the dog either by hand or in a bowl. The dog must wait for permission to eat. After a three - five second pause, the handler will be asked to give the dog a command to eat. Note: The dog should not eat until given permission, however if attempting to do so, it is acceptable for the handler to restrain the dog by voice alone.

Exercise 9 - Examination of the Dog
The object of this exercise is to demonstrate that the dog will allow inspection of its body by a stranger as might be undertaken by a veterinary surgeon. The dog on lead will be required to be placed for inspection of its mouth, teeth, throat, eyes, ears, stomach, tail and feet whilst standing, sitting or lying down as required. Other than mild avoidance, the dog should allow inspection without
concern. Note: It is the responsibility of training officials to ensure that only suitable dogs take part in this exercise.

Exercise 10 - Responsibility and Care
The object of this exercise is to test the knowledge of the handler on specific subjects relating to owning a dog. The Examiner should construct questions based on section two and three of the Responsibility and Care leaflet. Topics covered include - other responsibilities, children, barking, dogs and stationary vehicles, vehicle travel, health, worming, the Country Code, miscellaneous, frightening, out of control, biting and psychology of learning. The questions should not be phrased in an ambiguous manner and where necessary, Examiners should rephrase the same question in an attempt to bring out the correct answer from the handler. At the start of each training course, in addition to the Description, handlers should be given a copy of the Canine Code and Responsibility and Care leaflet. There should be a session during which the importance of these topics in every day life situations are discussed. Note: Only one numbered item may constitute a question. The handler should be able to give eight out of ten correct answers from section two and three of the Responsibility and Care leaflet.

The dog has to pass every requirement to get the certificate. Intense, huh?

# ¿ Nov 14, 2010 20:36

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 14:42

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

So, Dan's smart when it comes to tricks. He picks things up ridiculously easily, and once he's learned how to do something it's very easy to teach him to modify that behaviour for another cue (for example, we have different commands for 'bark' and 'whine'). Here's a list of what he knows;

Sit
Lie down
Stand
Stay
Leave it
Come here
Heel (he actually taught himself this, and it's cued to the words 'walk on' which I would say to him at the beginning of each walk when he's walking on a short leash along the roads)
Wave (he actually waves rather than just giving a paw)
Bang (flings himself down to the ground dramatically then starts whining)
Spin
Bow
Get it (goes to find a toy so we can play)
Kisses (licks your hand instead of mouthing it)
Bubbles (blows bubbles in his water dish; something else he taught himself)
Where's the bunnies? (gets very excited/runs to the garden door and/or the hutches)
Speak
Aroooo (this is the whine command)
Up (sit up and beg command)
Off (GET DOWN OFF THE TABLE YOU ARE NOT A CAT :mad:

)
Over
Hup
Teeth (holds his head still while you check his teeth)

Any ideas on what I should teach him next? He honestly picked all this stuff from a pretty half-arsed effort on my part, I don't usually need to do more than one formal training session before he 'gets' it. There are a couple of tricks Meg used to know like 'Crawl' which I've yet to teach him, but I'd like some other ideas

. He's so bright and eager to please that I'm pretty sure he'd be good at more complex stuff (like spinning backwards, 'limping', sneezing on command etc), but I'm sure there's a lot of more outside-the-box stuff I'm not thinking of.

Tldr, I'm looking for suggestions on cool tricks to teach my ridiculously trainable dog :3:

# ¿ Apr 16, 2011 16:08

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

a life less posted:

Go hog wild!

He now knows "Back-up!"

This took two sessions of maybe 20 minutes each (yesterday evening and this morning)

At the beginning of session one, I'd put the treat in front of his nose and 'push' against him very gently. He'd fall into a sit 9 times out of 10. The couple of times he took steps backwards I praised him like hell and treated (I don't use clickers; my old dog was phobic of them and I guess I fell out of the habit).

By the end of session one, Dan had kind of realised that when I pushed gently against his nose I wanted him to keep his butt in the air and walk backwards a couple of steps. I was cueing the command 'Back-up' at this point, and as an experiment I gave the command without pushing against his nose. He just stood there, wagging his tail. We finished on lots of positive nose-pushy 'backups' and went to do the bunnies.

At the beginning of session two, he sat a couple of times at first, then remembered the stuff he'd learned last night. I 'asked' him to work a little harder for treat and praise this time, and you could really see his little doggy brain gears whirring to try and figure this thing out. Maybe seven minutes into this session he GOT it - that he was supposed to walk backwards on his own, with no movement from me, on the 'Back-up' command - and he has been merrily backing up on cue ever since :3:

.

At this point he stops responding to the command when he gets a couple of feet away - but that's something we can work on in time. We had playtime with a tug toy after the session, and I had him 'leave-it' and 'back up' a couple of times while we wrassled. He did it perfectly. I'm looking forward to eventually working on a backwards spin with him :3:

I swear there's a video camera somewhere in this house - once I find it, I'll post video!

# ¿ Apr 17, 2011 07:50

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

PotatoManJack posted:

Stormy

Just a hunch, but are you in the UK? If so, advice about prongs is moot as (afaik) they're still illegal here.

# ¿ May 31, 2011 14:31

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

A life less, I hope you don't mind me asking this in this thread :3:

but I was just wondering - if you get additional dogs to Cohen in the future, do you think you'll always go for herding breeds? You seem to really enjoy training to a high standard, which means that super sharp and focused aussies and bcs would make perfect sense - but you also seem to enjoy the challenge of training, and figuring out techniques that are applicable to dogdom at large - which just makes me wonder if you'd ever pick something traditionally viewed as difficult to train to a high standard (like, I dunno, a bloodhound or something!) just for the sheer challenge of it?

# ¿ Jun 24, 2011 21:52

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

So, my pup's a lurcher that I'm hoping to bring on as a useful hunting companion and a big part of training in the first year is getting her retrieval to hand solid. Eventually she will be expected to bring dead or even live rabbits to hand and give them over without fuss. Therefore, along with the basics of leash training, sit/leave it and recall we're working on retrieve even though she's only 8 weeks old.

So far, she's getting the hang of what I'm asking her to do and I would say 50% of the time she brings a thrown item right back to me and drops it in front of me, then waits for her treat. I always jackpot when she does this and throw a huge ZOMG I LOVE YOU YAAAY party, which she adores. The issue I'm wondering about is the 45% of the time where she will run to the item, pick it up, shake it, drop it back on the ground and scamper back to me looking for a treat (the other 5% she just wanders away and chases a leaf or whatever because puppy attention spans :3:

). I figure I have three options;

1) Reward only for correct retrieve, don't reward for 'almost!' retrieves
2) Jackpot reward for correct retrieve, give a treat and praise for 'almost!' but don't make a huge fuss
3) Jackpot reward for correct retrieve AND 'almost!' retrieve since at this age I should be making a huge fuss of her for coming to me no matter what.

So far I'm going with option 2, and it seems to be working in that she's gone from about 90% almost! 10% correct to 50% almost! to 50% correct in the last week. Just wondering if I'm choosing the best path, or whether either 1) or 3) might be more appropriate. Bear in mind that a solid recall is more important, in the long run, than a solid retrieve. Ideas?

# ¿ Jul 3, 2011 21:09

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Prongs used to be illegal here, afaik they still are.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2011 00:48

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

So, today was Mouse's first puppy training class and... she barked a loooot at the other pups

. She was extremely friendly with people but nervous of all the other puppies and barked/growled whenever she got upset. This is something I'd kind of anticipated, since when she meets other dogs out walking or in the pet store she is often trepidacious, putting her ears down and wiggling and then backing away and barking. Since I foresaw her having issues along these lines, I've actually booked her into two separate puppy classes with two different firms, so she has 12 weeks of puppy classes scheduled. We're also going to a puppy party at the vets tomorrow.

The trainer did not seem overly concerned, and I'm hoping that after the 12 weeks are through Mouse will be much more at ease around unfamiliar puppies/dogs. At the back of my mind, though, I'm wondering whether booking a one-on-one session with a behaviourist to focus on building her confidence around stooge dogs might be appropriate? Or would that be overkill given that she's only 12 weeks old?

She did great on the regular training exercises, and I was able to hold her attention and have her sit quietly most of the time, but I am a little concerned about the fear she's obviously experiencing around other dogs.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2011 20:35

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Fraction posted:

I thought bedlingtons and whippets are supposed to be pretty calm and even with people and dogs? Maybe she was just too anxious by all the new dogs and new situations. Lola barked a lot in her first puppy classes, but that was excitement. She only got reactive later.

Rather than booking with a behaviourist, I'd ask with the trainers if they have any small, couple-of-puppy classes (where the dogs can interact more under more control), or ask fellow pup handlers for phone numbers or email addresses so you can arrange puppy meetups. And bear in mind, if she's able to sit and be calm she can't be too anxious about the other dogs there.

Working strain bedlingtons are quite different in temperament to the show strain. The show strains are pretty diluted with poodle and bichons (that's not :tinfoil:

, it's well documented) and the working strains were outbred to glen of imaals and fell terriers to improve genetic diversity and functionality. The workers have a bit of a rep for dog aggression. As for whippets, it's true that as mature dogs they're generally pretty chill but they can also be sensitive, clingy and shivery/nervy in new situations. (Many lurcher folks avoid whippets and crosses for that reason, others swear by them!)

The course I'm on at the moment is just a little low-key 4 week class; the 2 month one with the local big name behaviourist starts on the 21st of August. I might see how she does over the next 3 classes, then ask the behaviourist for advice when their classes start if she's still getting upset around other dogs. This class has 8 puppies max, the 2 month course has 6 max, and neither of them do classes with fewer pups - you'd need to arrange a one on one consultation.

aliceamadee: we have another dog and they get on beautifully - they play together, feed beside one another and sleep curled up in the same basket.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2011 23:10

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Yeah, overthinking is kind of my middle name when it comes to my dogs :3:

. I'll be really interested to see how she gets on at the puppy party tomorrow, our vets are awesome so I'm hoping they'll be doing structured introductions rather than just letting all the pups offlead and hoping for the best.

The instructor showed me some TTouch techniques - I don't know if anyone has any opinions on them? IDK if there's any clinical data to suggest the massage techniques work better than regular stroking, or whether it's just snake-oil.

The upshot of attending two separate sets of classes is that Mouse will (hopefully!) pass the Canine Good Citizen Puppy Foundation award two times over :3:

# ¿ Aug 2, 2011 23:58

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

So, we went to the puppy party this evening and I have to say I was a little disappointed. The vet nurses were awesome, but the behaviourist they brought in was from a bark-buster type chain and was pretty old school. She had obviously never heard of counter-conditioning and scolded me for 'rewarding Mouse for barking' (I was actually rewarding her for sitting and paying attention to me rather than the other puppies at that point) and instead recommended I basically lift her chest up and shake her a little every time she barks at other dogs :downs:

. There was no structured offlead play and no emphasis on introducing the puppies to one another.

That said, I think by the end of the hour Mouse was doing a little better. There were only two other puppies - a lab and a shih tzu, and by the end Mouse was almost friendly with the lab. She did bark and growl intermittently throughout the session though and I'm still a little concerned. She also snapped at the lab a couple of times when he bounced right up to her :/. We'll see how she does next Tuesday at the class.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2011 22:51

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Mouse did WAY better at puppy training this week. She was much more focused on me (freshly fried rabbit liver and kidneys probably helped) and 90% less barky. I rewarded her for looking at the other dogs and then looking back to me, and shoveled treats into her when she was sitting quietly and paying attention to me during the class talks. She did awesome in the exercises, walking past other dogs and sitting in front of them with only a couple of errant yaps. She also aced off-lead recall and the bronze level exercises that the trainer had us attempt as an experiment (bronze recall and offlead obstacle courses). We also demonstrated offlead retrieval, which none of the other pups can do at this point. Could not be more pleased with her tbh :3:

# ¿ Aug 9, 2011 19:48

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

So, I think we made progress again at the training class this week. Mouse barked a little in the first half, but midway through the hour it seemed to dawn on her that "hey, these are puppies just like me and I can play with them!!". From that point on when she broke concentration from me she was straining to play with the big doofy lab and little terrier puppy to her left and right, rather than barking suspiciously.

She also did great in the exercises again. Pleased with her progress :3:

# ¿ Aug 16, 2011 21:41

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

a life less posted:

Here are the videos: I think each one is a day of training, and training happens in one minute stints five or six times a day. Nice and short!

Day One
Day Two
Day Three

Do you have direct links to the rest of the series yet? You need the direct link to view.

Also, I'd be really interested to read the debate about forced retrieves on facebook if you didn't mind posting (or sending me) the link? Thanks!

# ¿ Aug 18, 2011 01:33

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

a life less posted:

I don't think she's put up Day Four or beyond yet. She's using a client's dog, so I guess she's restricted by her teaching schedule.

Here is the facebook link. Not sure if you have the join the group to see it. Let me know if you're having any trouble.

That worked great, thanks! Amazing (and unfortunate) to see such outdated methods as the ear pinch in such widespread general use today - and in both hunting and obedience circles, too

. At least people are beginning to question it vocally.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2011 03:02

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Levitate posted:

At the very least I don't want this to turn into her defending her food from us, etc.

Has she actually shown any signs of guarding resources from humans? In my experience, resource guarding is kind of similar to aggression in that dogs can have big issues with guarding from other dogs but be just fine with humans. Of course, other dogs have issues with both species too.

Can you call your dog away from resources, ask them to drop/leave them, remove them physically from her mouth, stroke her while she's eating, stick your hand in her food bowl and take it away from her without her reacting? (If you aren't sure, please don't try any of these if you think she's liable to lash out aggressively :ohdear:

)

# ¿ Aug 18, 2011 03:36

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Awesome, thanks for those! In the end I decided to wait a few weeks to work on delivery to hand because Mouse wasn't really into the early clicker sessions we tried; at least not for something so complicated. I settled on getting her to touch first my hand and then the offered object with her nose, and making a huge fuss of her for that. I've spent the last couple of weeks working on building up other retrieve skills, and we're only now working on 'hold it'.

I think the difference with training a lurcher up for rabbiting and training an obedience candidate to retrieve is that the object we want her to retrieve isn't 'dead' or static - it's alive and running, and the hound has to work very hard to catch it. Having caught it, for the hound to come back to you at all is quite a big feat, and something a lot of lurcher handlers struggle with. Worst case scenario is that the lurcher kills the rabbit then runs away from the handler to devour it. At that point the lurcher and handler are no longer working as a team; the harmony between the partners has broken down.

On the other hand, here's an example of a whippet lurcher (also called Mouse :3:

) working beautifully with her handler ( :nms:

if you don't want to watch rabbits being killed). The retrieve live to hand is an important part of the whole picture, but equally so IMO is her making the decision to return immediately to the handler's side once the high value item has been gathered up. You can see at 4:35 or so that the delivery isn't particularly polished - she backs away from the handler slightly and lowers the rabbit to the ground - but she's completely comfortable bringing the prized object close to him and allowing him to take it from her. That's mostly what I've been working on with Mouse so far, and I'm really pleased with how enthusiastic she is about retrieving even heavy, fur-clad objects to my feet. (Edit: she'll also retrieve the same items when she 'catches' them on the end of a lure pole :3:

)

That said, I do think it's important to work on delivery while she's still young, and I've started working on 'Hold It' with Mouse (and Dandy!) in the last two days. I've done three short sessions with each of them, and they have both progressed from nose bumps to holding the item for 5-10 seconds (in the case of Mouse) and 3-5 seconds (in the case of Dandy).

One issue I'm having with Mouse is she haaates sitting for any length of time, and usually drops to a down after a couple of moments. Therefore, her best 'hold its' take place when she's lying down (when she's standing up she tends to try and parade with the item, and when she's sitting she'll hold it while very carefully changing position into a down). I think her leg:body ration actually makes it uncomfortable for her to sit at the moment, so I think I'll try to move more towards shaping the behaviour while she's standing.

notsoape fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Aug 19, 2011

# ¿ Aug 19, 2011 20:47

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Rixatrix posted:

Any tips on how to progress with Pi using Shirley's Retrieve? We're seriously stuck at the point where I'm catching the dumbell that he lifts/throws and I cannot for the life of me get Pi to offer any sort of hold.

Both of my dogs hit this hurdle too. I'm approaching it differently with each dog. Keep in mind neither is overly familiar with the clicker (so don't know to offer behaviours or experiment with different interactions with the object). We're all novices, and learning as we go along (and open to critique!).

Dan is a serious and slightly sensitive dog. You wouldn't know it watching him interact with other dogs or strangers (he's friendly, playful and patient) but with his own people he's pretty sensitive to disapproval. If you scold him for anything (not a regular 'hey, quit it' reprimand but a pointed finger 'now listen to me, young man' kind of scold) he stares at you in disbelief, his tail slowly falls, then he tucks it between his legs and begins to race around the house or garden zoomies style. He'll do a good few laps before he comes back to make up with you - he's done this since he was a puppy, I've never heard of it in another dog, it's kinda weird.

The hold/retrieve clicker training has been interesting. He moved pretty quickly through the early stuff (touch it, lick it, mouth it a little, put your teeth around it while I hold it, hold it for a moment), but like Rixatrix we stalled when it came to 'hold it for longer than a moment'. When I reported the other night that he was holding 3-5 seconds, he was really just mouthing it a couple of times before spitting it out. Today he was just taking the item in his teeth, spitting it out instantly and looking for his treat. He would happily do that 50 times in a row (we didn't actually do it 50 times, but he had a 100% hit rate) but once you changed the goalposts so that spitting it out was a 'nope, try again' he got demoralised pretty quickly. And by 'demoralised' I mean 'gazing folornly into my eyes, whining and whimpering, trying to figure out why he's not a Good Boy anymore' :smith:

The way I've been approaching it is to set him up for success. He knows 'back-up' (walk backwards a couple steps) so I experimented with having him stand and take the item, then I would gently 'push' the item as I was holding it so that he would take a few steps back - then click, reward, make a huge fuss. He cottoned onto this reeeally quickly, and he was OVERJOYED that he had found a new Thing to make me Happy - taking an item from me, walking back a few steps, then dropping it. He wanted to do it over and over again, wagging his tail the whole time and lunging for the item like 'Yeah I got it!'. Approval for this dog is as important as treats, I need to make it super easy for him to succeed.

Right at the end of the training session I lowered the item so that he had to lift it up before taking a few steps backwards. My plan is to sloooowly shape this so he lifts the item up from the ground, then backs into a sit and I take the item from him. We'll work on it until he will pick up a thrown object, come and sit holding it in front of me and then have me take it from him. That's my long term target: I'm not too fussed about sustained holds from him since this is all for fun and not formal in any way. If we get there, we get there but if not - no big deal

.

Mouse is an assertive, confident puppy. She actually has a pretty good attention span for a pup, but she is not all that interested in treats unless they are super high value (which I save for puppy classes right now) and bores quickish when we work 1-on-1. What does motivate her, funnily enough, is competition. Since reading that dogs pay attention to other dogs around them during trick-and-treat sessions I've experimented having Dan and Mouse side by side for training. It doesn't do anything for Dan, so all the 'let's learn something new!' training sessions with him are 1-on-1 - but Mouse is currently waaaay more pumped to learn stuff if she has to compete for my attention with Dandy (who I'll just ask to do regular stuff that he knows by heart, like spin, speak etc).

Like Dan, Mouse powered through the early stuff but hit a sticky spot when it came to lengthening the hold. She'll hold it a little longer than Dan, but inconsistently. Sometimes she'll hold for 5+ seconds, but it seems like she's always just waiting for the chance to spit it out - her emphasis is on the spit, I think because the treat (necessarily!) always comes right after. So, instead of working on a sustained hold at this point, I'm working on getting her to drop it into my *hand*, rather than on the floor. Instead of building up duration I'm trying to build up accuracy - she gets to do what she wants to do (spit out the thing and get a treat!), and from my point of view we're working on the thing that matters most to me (retrieval to hand). We made good progress today, she's much more amenable to 'Ah, try again!' than Dandy. And, like I say, working in 'competition' with Dan seems to motivate her to try harder for longer, although we do 1-on-1 sessions too

.

As with Dan I'm going to try to build on this behaviour, and what I'm aiming from her eventually is to lift an item from the floor and place it into my hand. We'll then build on distance and value of item. My time-frame for this is looong, potentially; I'm definitely keeping the following in mind.

"As a general note, this dog's pace of learning is NOT normal. Because the dog/handler team has a ton of shaping history, the dog learns very very quickly. what matters is that she remains engaged and wants to learn. It is totally ok if it takes you six months to get your retrieve."

Welp, those sure are some :words:

about my dogs. In other news, Mouse saw sheep for the first time today and ignored them studiously. Good girl!

Oh; one final note - finding the right size and shape of object to work with makes a huuuge difference. I've tried a few different things but a puppy rope toy, knotted at both ends, has worked best for us.

notsoape fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Aug 20, 2011

# ¿ Aug 20, 2011 22:58

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

More on the retrieve to hand.

I've done a pretty exhaustive review of the videos of clicker-shaped retrieves online, and also read a few online walkthroughs. There are different ways to approach the behaviour chain.

One approach, as demonstrated in the videos alifeless posted, is to concentrate initially on the hold. The shaping works towards rewarding the dog for gripping the object, and then the work is towards improving on the grip. The dogs gets clicks for a good grip, a longer grip, moving while gripping the object etc. Another example of this tack can be found here. Edit: once your dog has mastered gripping the object while you are also holding it, whether sitting or while moving, you'll then move onto independent pick ups/grips and delivery to hand. Note that Firez doesn't ask the border collie to lift the item without assistance until the end of the third video, but from that point on the emphasis is all about the dog independently lifting the item into the handler's hand.

Another approach is to work from the drop to hand backwards. The dog initially gets clicks for dropping the object, spitting it out into your hand. A good write up is here (the formatting is wall-of-texty). You can see a video of a similar method here. Edit: the Schutzhund article recommends literally shoving the item into the dog's mouth right from the get-go - no gradual shaping of a hold.

quote:

Begin by ever so calmly and quietly and with as little ado as possible, slipping the dowel into the dog's mouth. This is NOT the important part, so don't make a big production out of it! DO NOT say "take it" or anything. Just slide it in there and I can almost guarantee you that he will instantly spew it back out at you. When he does this, click it, and give him a treat

Just based on my own recent experience - and Rixatrix' post - if you have a remotely sensitive dog, I think it's better to shape a hold first (click for nose touch, licking, mouthing, gripping) than just shove the item in there. If you're lucky, the dog will get the idea that 'hey, mom/dad really wants me to hold onto this thing!'. You can then easily work on longer and longer sustained holds, recalls with the object and cued drops.

However; if when you get to this stage your dog, like ours, is super eager to spit the item out the minute you take your hands away from it, you can choose from a couple of different paths to get over the hump.

So, you have a dog who will take an object in his mouth and then immediately spit it out. You want to build up to a good retrieve to hand.

If you want to follow Approach One (focusing on the hold) I think it's best to go back a step and keep a hold of the object yourself - with two hands at first - while it is in the dog's mouth. Work on sustained holds - first hold the object in place and reward for several seconds of mouthing, then shape towards a good behind-the-canine grip (again while you are holding the object). Build up towards encouraging the dog to move towards you while you are both holding the object. Do not take your hands off the object again until the dog is capable of sustained stationary and moving holds while you are also holding the object (obviously this may take several sessions). Edit: Your next step will be to gradually phase your hands away during the holds, and focus on delivery to hand as demonstrated in the Firez videos. This is the approach I'm now using with Dan.

If you want to follow Approach Two (focusing on the delivery), change the way you offer the object to the dog. Put the object on the flat of your hand, like you're offering food to a horse, and wait for the dog to pick the item up and drop it back into your hand. Reward. Do this over and over and over, and always click after the item is back in your hand. I would keep this up for a few sessions before moving onto the next stage - moving your hand position so that the dog has to move their head and, eventually, their whole body to deliver the item correctly. This is the approach I'm now using with Mouse.

Edit: To sum up very generally - if your dog is picking up an object only to immediately spit it back out, you need to consider whether you want to;

i. Click before the spit-out, rewarding your dog for sustained stationary and moving assisted holds (and not asking for independent holds and hand delivery until your dog has these nailed.)

ii. Click after the spit-out, rewarding your dog for delivering the item correctly no matter how short the hold.

IMO Approach One sets the dog up for success better, since you retain a lot of the control over the object in the early stages. Approach Two requires more thought and trial/error from the dog to advance through the stages, but the emphasis is on delivery to hand and IMO would be the best foundation for a formal or gundog style retrieve. The path you choose should depend on the character of your dog and your reasons for teaching the retrieve.

On a related note, the client in alifeless' videos is SO LUCKY to have a pro who will work one-on-one with her like that. Clicker training to shape complex behaviour chains is kind of daunting as a novice - you're always second guessing yourself, wondering if you're moving too fast or too slow - and when you hit a hurdle it can be tricky to know the best route to take to move beyond it. The trainer is shaping the handler as much as the handler is shaping the dog, and that's awesome. Is it common for dog trainers in the US to offer one-one-one clicker instruction? No-one in my area advertises that they do it, although there are a few clicker classes offered (for dogs over 6 months, which wouldn't help Mouse right now).

notsoape fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Aug 22, 2011

# ¿ Aug 22, 2011 00:41

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

a life less posted:

I like how you've broken down the options, though I don't think the two methods are as distinct as you suggest. With Shirley's Retrieve you start with your first method to create a dog who is willing to put an object in their mouth. Then once you've achieved that you shift to your second method where it's the "to hand" portion that is focused on and rewarded.

Oh, totally - I've gone back and made a few edits to clarify some points (I think I got a bit confused as to where I was talking about the retrieve in general terms, and where I was talking about solutions to the specific hump that Rixatrix and I both encountered)

quote:

Obviously you can't work option B if you don't have a dog willing to hold an object to begin with.

The article I linked to for option B actually recommends just plain shoving the item into the dog's mouth (and then rewarding them for spitting it out) from the get-go, but I don't think I'd advocate that for most dogs. Have edited along those lines too

.

Mouse is now lifting the item from the floor and dropping it into my hand for her click. We're not ready to play around with different positions of item or hand yet, but that will come. I'm giving Dandy some time off from retrieve shaping, but when we pick it back up we'll be working on assisted holds (stationary and moving) :3:

# ¿ Aug 22, 2011 16:32

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

a life less posted:

I think I've managed to confuse you about the name(s).

This is Shirley's Retrieve. Rixatrix and I have referred to it quite a bit, as it's kind of the go-to online resource to shape a retrieve.

The Denise Fenzi videos are the ones I've linked recently. The dog's name is Kir, and I'm not sure what the handler's name is.

Ah, derpity derp on my part. I even had that link open in a tab! I'll go edit again

# ¿ Aug 22, 2011 17:07

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Mouse got her Puppy CGC foundation award tonight! :3:

# ¿ Aug 23, 2011 20:20

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Also, 'hold' progress -

Woo!

# ¿ Aug 24, 2011 14:33

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Culex posted:

I just don't like teaching dogs to sit, stay, roll over: I think the owners should be taught how to do it, because they are the ones that live with the animal and will have the lifelong bond with it.

This is what dog training classes are, fyi. The owners are instructed how to train their own dogs/puppies.

Also, do you want dogs to be your main source of income? Unless you're a really sought after (read: experienced, well qualified and probably published) behaviourist, regular training classes are going to be your bread and butter. I wouldn't turn your nose up at them.

In my opinion, you owe it to your future customers to get decently qualified before you get hands on with their dogs. I don't live in your country let alone your state, but no matter how much layman experience you have accrued over the years, there is almost certainly a bunch of pertinent stuff you don't know/ haven't encountered, or maybe even considered. You should study under someone with more experience than yourself who will ask you to critically examine your ideas and methods before asking people to pay money for your services. Behaviourism done wrong can gently caress up dogs reeeally badly, and you don't want to learn on the job.

# ¿ Aug 24, 2011 14:52

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Has anyone else trained a formal finish? Which style did you pick?

# ¿ Sep 12, 2011 02:00

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Yeah, I just meant flip finish or... round the back finish :P (so, left and right). Our trainer wants us to work on it this week, and I wasn't sure which would be easier to teach.

In the end, after I posted that, I tried the method she taught us for the flip finish, since I think it's easier to do when the puppy's on lead - and it worked out pretty well for our first try

. It's not something I've ever taught before, and honestly not something I would have bothered to teach Mouse otherwise - but she seems to think it's no big deal so, woo. For some reason I thought the left finish would be super hard to teach (and I'm sure it is, done proficiently and with flair - but our version will do for now!)

# ¿ Sep 12, 2011 06:14

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Yeah, I've been looking up rear end awareness videos with a view to trying it with Dandy

. I don't want to focus on tricks with Mouse per se, but there are a bunch of clicker and positive reinforcement techniques that are going to be useful for her field training. She's got 'hold it/give' and retrieve to hand really nicely now, next step is going to be building up to recall/distance drops using the towel technique in the kikopup video.

I've gotta say, I do always feel a little guilty watching kikopup because 'No!' and 'Ah-ah' are definitely part of the vocabulary I use with my dogs. I don't think I'll ever fade them out entirely, but I'm definitely thinking about ways to communicate more positively more of the time.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2011 06:33

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

ButWhatIf posted:

I definitely think there is merit to be found in using a no-reward marker, so long as it's not being used as a positive punishment so much as a "try again" sort of cue. It's also a good way to interrupt a behavior you want to redirect, imo. It's really kind of at the discretion of the individual trainer, but yeah, I agree with you.

I think I've mentioned before that steadiness around stock is really important for any British dog who's going to be spending any amount of time in the countryside, especially if you're actively working in and around farms. I don't think I'd feel comfortable doing the early training around livestock without being able to communicate with my dog 'no, that was the wrong decision and it's very important that you stop immediately' through tone of voice.

Don't get me wrong; most of the training is very positive in nature, and the 'reprimand' is nothing more than a stern 'Ah-ah' followed by oodles of praise for subsequently making the right decision. My garden is full of rabbits and chickens, and my dogs are always at my feet when I'm doing food-animal chores, so impulse control is something we work and build on every day. Even Dandy (who, at 3ish, is a dog I can trust to stand in the open doorway of a pen and keep an eye on a rabbit for me while I go to grab something, but who will also find, flush, corner and gently grip escapee rabbits for me on command) will need the occasional 'Hey, enough' reminder from time to time.

With Mouse, I've been building up to a controlled retrieve of a toy from inside the chicken pen itself. I started working in the chicken pen with her from a pretty young age; once she knew what 'sit/stay' meant we worked on sit/stay close to the chickens, on-lead in the chicken pen and finally off-lead in the chicken pen. The next stage was letting her potter around and make her own decisions in the pen (again, off-lead at first) and tldr today we did our first off-lead retrieve - she sat at my heel while I opened the door, watched me throw the item into the pen (about halfway over to the chickens), then retrieved it on command (to hand! :3:

) without paying the hens a second glance. We've only been able to get to that stage because, whenever she's tested the boundaries in the past (infrequently, I'm pleased to report) by taking a step closer to the hens than I'm happy with, a firm 'Ah-ah' has stopped her dead in her tracks.

I'm sure it's possible to train a dog to be stock steady using praise alone and no 'verbal intimidation', but I don't think I'm that awesome a trainer, unfortunately. When a slip-up would mean a dead bird or bun rather than a gulped hotdog, it's not something I'm prepared to take a chance on.

(I really wish kikopup would post a follow up to this video - I have NO IDEA how she taught it using positive training only!)

ION, Mouse was supposed to start training for the Bronze CGC award tonight - but the trainer got a migraine and had to cancel and we have to wait til next week

# ¿ Sep 13, 2011 23:08

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Oh, also, we've started working on the towel game in preparation for distance work - although we've only been working in the living room so far, she got the 'if i go stand on this, I get clicks and treats!' idea pretty quickly, so so far so good

.

And Dandy's making gradual progress with his holds; he'll now take the item, back up into a sit, then drop it (which is better than immediately spitting it out as he was doing before). Mouse is streets ahead, and will sit holding the item until I give the 'give' command - I can walk away, turn away from her or whatever and she'll keep holding it til I return :3:

. Shaping really is amazing, and anyone still using 'ear-pinch' in this day and age is a moron.

# ¿ Sep 13, 2011 23:20

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

So, there's a pretty big broohaha in the UK at the moment about a segment on a daily evening talk show (the One Show) involving a dog 'behaviourist'. Unfortunately no-one has hosted the clip for international audiences, but if you're in the UK and have iplayer, it's friday's One Show and the dog stuff happens about 30 minutes in.

Basically, the dog is a super reactive JRT with huge food guarding problems. The One Show's new 'behaviourist' is a guy who looks like he's just out of high school, who claims Cesar Milan is his ~idol~ and who dealt with the behavioural issue by shoving his shoe in the dog's mouth, yelling and removing the food every time the dog attacked. Here's a more detailed summary:

quote:

BBC�s The One Show has outraged dog trainers and lovers alike this week with the introduction of their new segment �Fix My Dog�.

They have hired Jordan Shelley, a Cesar Milan wannabe with no formal qualifications, to host this part of the show. It appears that he has been hired mostly due to his looks, rather than any affinity with canine kind.

In the clip that I saw, he was working with a Jack Russell called Roxie who growled when anyone approached her food bowl. Any good dog behaviourist would tell you that this is probably due to an underlying fear. I expected Jordan to do what all reward based trainers would do; I expected him to put a half full bowl down and gradually get closer and closer, dropping tasty treats into the bowl as he came, rewarding calm behaviour and showing Roxie that people approaching her food bowl is a good thing and nothing to be afraid of. Instead, he allowed Roxie to get anxious and lunge, teeth bared, at his Converse-clad foot. With it, he pushed the little dog away and shouted �BACK!�

Roxie, startled, stopped growling and adopted submissive body postures. She was then invited back to her bowl. A few seconds later, Jordan approached again. Remembering what had happened last time (that�s the scary man who gets between me and my dinner), out came the teeth once more.

This went on for some 45 minutes apparently, with Roxie being invited to eat, and then being pushed around by Jordan�s foot and shouted at when Jordan approached her bowl. He effectively taught her that people approaching her bowl is something to fear, as it means her meal is over. At one point, she backed into her bed, which she had never guarded before, and bared her teeth at Jordan as he towered over her. Oh dear� Eventually, after being �tired down� � his words � she stopped guarding her bowl. Jordan pronounced her �cured�. To me she looked terrified; she had given in to the bully.

You can watch it yourself on iPlayer � it has to be seen to be believed. I was appalled, and I�d love to know how he trains dogs larger than ankle height�

In the same episode Jordan claims that he is a huge fan of Cesar Milan and that he learned about dogs while walking them as a child. A quick Google search of his name reveals nothing (except other articles similar to this one). Who is this man, and what qualifies him to teach the nation how to train their dogs? He says �There are two different schools of dog training thought � dominance theory and reward based. You have to find a balance between the two.�

I saw no balance. I saw no reward. All I saw was a large man pushing a little dog around. He made no attempt to understand why Roxie was doing what she was doing, or to explain it to her owners. Later, his way of stopping her ripping up the post was to forcibly place himself between her and the door and shout at her. He clearly has no idea of modern dog training techniques or dog behaviour, body language or psychology. Anyone can shout at a dog or forcibly move it around, but the media should not be promoting this caveman like style of �training�.

Ever the champion of the underdog, Dogs Today magazine have also spoken out against what they saw; you can read their reaction to it here.

I am saddened and disappointed that The One Show has chosen to give this man and his dominating techniques air time, and that they are treating dog problems like a quick fix which can be solved with little work in 4 minutes of air time. For years, dog lovers have been trying to spread the message that dog training takes time and understanding and effort, and this new segment undermines that message. We here at Dogs In The News will be taking time to write a letter of complaint to the BBC and request that our readers do so also. You can find the forms here. Hopefully the BBC will see sense and fire this bully before any dogs are harmed by the use of his techniques.

You can see some of the outraged responses on the One Show's facebook wall. As yet there has been no official statement from them, but they're going to have to address the situation soon. Hope the dude is summarily sacked.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2011 19:55

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Just a little update on the aforementioned broohaha over dog training philosophies happening in the UK at the moment.

First, here are a couple of stills from the show.

To recap: food guarding jrt, dude deals with it by shoving his shoe in the dog's face for forty minutes and bellowing 'NO' until the dog cowers away. The tv footage did not show him praising or rewarding the dog once. This guy has no formal training and considers Cesar Milan to be his hero. This was broadcast on BBC1 (main national tv channel) at 7 in the evening.

Here's an article discussing the controversy (daily fail link, sorry).

Here's the press release from the BBC to Beverly Cuddy of Dogs Today (national dog magazine, big on activism)

"We appreciate that many dog lovers have strong opinions on the subject of dog training, however the family with the problem dog Roxy are extremely happy with the outcome. Jordan Shelley, who runs a dog treatment centre in London, will display other techniques in future films.
Jordan himself will also be putting out a line talking about his approach and why he employed the technique in the programme, it may be an hour or so and I'll call you with that.
I will also call you now to give you a bit of background
Thanks
Publicist
BBC Comedy and Entertainment"

This has just infuriated the Grate Dogladies of Britain further, and there's a mounting pressure on the One Show to sack the guy. It will be interesting to see how the whole thing pans out.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2011 01:30

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Here's the dog "trainer"'s statement

quote:

"As I said on The One Show, I respect and practice both reward based and dominance techniques and I use a mixture of both, depending upon the specific dog and its problems. Safety comes first in all my training and I would never approve of causing distress to any dog. The family were present for the entire filming and subsequently I have visited them on a couple of occasions and they say they are delighted with the improvement in Roxy's behaviour."

(The filming took place only 6 weeks ago)

And here's Dog's Trust, a leading dog rescue charity

quote:

Dogs Trust, the UK�s largest dog welfare charity is deeply concerned by the training methods used by Jordan Shelley who was featured on The One Show on Friday 16th September. The main issues we have are:

A dog with such aggression and fear issues should never, ever have food taken away by members of the family. There was no regard for the safety of the family - using methods like this will only cause the dog to suppress the behaviour and there is a strong possibility that, when the opportunity arises, he will revert to the aggression.
There is no consideration for the dog's emotional state and the motivation behind the behaviour - until these are addressed then you can never consider the behaviour to be resolved.
Any other pet dog owner attempting these methods will put themselves and their families at risk of serious dog bites.
There was no warning to 'not try this at home.�
We are surprised that The One Show has featured such aggressive training methods as demonstrated by Jordan Shelley and are worried that families will try these methods at home. Jordan Shelley also stated that he �agrees with all training methods� which really does not make sense when there are so many different training methods used throughout the UK.

Dog trainers all over the UK use reward-based methods to train dogs very effectively. Where dogs have behaviours which owners find unacceptable, such as aggression or destruction, qualified and experienced behaviourists achieve long term changes in behaviour through the use of established and validated techniques of behaviour modification without subjecting dogs to training techniques which may cause pain or distress.

We always advise dog owners to carefully consider the help they choose to train their dogs or tackle behavioural problems, in particular to ensure that the trainer does not use any techniques which may put the welfare of the dogs or owners at risk.

Lynn Barber, Head of Canine Behaviour and Training at Dogs Trust

notsoape fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Sep 21, 2011

# ¿ Sep 21, 2011 01:37

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

The big problem for us in the UK is that Stilwell has left our shores and set up camp in the US. No-one has stepped up to fill her shoes except this guy - oh, and Cesar Milan is coming to the UK to do a series later next year :downs:

Here's a link to the actual clip of Jordan Shelley and the JRT, so you can see just how hosed up his methods were. It's even worse than what the pictures show.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2011 11:19

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Victoria Stilwell has commented:

quote:

It doesn't suprise me that the BBC One Show execs are standing by their trainer Jordan Shelley who showed such irresponsible and dangerous techniques in order to curb a dog's foodbowl aggression. It shows that there is still so much ignorance when it comes to truly understanding and teaching dogs. The BBC pulled out of Crufts for breeding cruelty but yet they permit these inhumane techniques on their channel. Please to the general public - do not watch this man because you try his techniques at home, you WILL get bitten. Disgraceful!

I'm actually kind of proud of how the British dog community is responding to this :3:

. Hopefully the RSPCA will be next to give their statement.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2011 15:34

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Wow; I just looked Brad Pattison up on youtube and holy crap. At least Jordan Shelley didn't actually hit the dog, jesus :/.

Someone needs to get kikopup a show.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2011 15:48

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Things just got a little interesting :allears:

Victoria Stilwell posted:

"I'm worried now that the family is in danger of getting bitten by their JR after the abusive techniques that were used by Jordan shelley on the BBC's One Show and if so the JR will get put down. If anyone knows who the family is, please tell them that I will come over to England free of charge and teach them how to stop their dog guarding in a humane and beautifully effective way. No point in just complaining, I want to save this dog and this family. Please send this to everyone you know."

# ¿ Sep 21, 2011 16:15

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Rixatrix posted:

I tend to think people simply like to see dogs bullied.

This is something I've been wondering about too. Sometimes it feels like people are just waiting for an 'excuse' to yell at their dogs and physically intimidate them. I'd like to think better of people though

.

The RSPCA has released their official statement:

quote:

RSPCA Statement in response to The One Show feature on dog behaviour � 21.9.11

We are investigating several complaints received following an item featured on The One Show on Friday, 16 September. However, because that investigation is now active we cannot comment further on this specific instance.

The RSPCA only recommends reward based training methods. A number of scientific studies have found an association between the use of aversive training techniques and the occurrence of undesired behaviours in dogs. As such, they may worsen the behavioural problems they aim to address.

Anyone who wishes to find a suitable dog behaviour expert can find out more at https://www.rspca.org.uk/findabehaviourist with further information on training techniques available at https://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org :

It will be interesting to see where the programme goes from here.

# ¿ Sep 21, 2011 18:29

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Mouse has 'hold it' down :3:

# ¿ Sep 24, 2011 00:10

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

My advice would be to go back to basics and work on 'sit'. If a dog is sitting, they can't be jumping up! Start working on sit in quiet moments, and work towards 1) getting an instant response to the 'sit' command and 2) building up duration and introducing distractions. Then you can ask the dog to sit at times when he would otherwise want to jump up. My dogs know that they have to sit calmly before I greet them, and also while I'm putting leads on them - it works pretty well

# ¿ Oct 13, 2011 21:40

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 14:42

notsoape: Jul 19, 2009; WWDD?

Today I started working on blind retrieves with Mouse and I was surprised and pleased at how quickly she got the idea

. Up until this point she has been retrieving thrown items or holding things I give her. We started with a dumbbell on the floor and went back to basics clicking for looking at it, pawing it, nose touching etc all the way to lifting it up and placing it in my hand. That took about 15 minutes, and after an evening's work she'll now:

- sit behind a closed door,
- wait for me to drop four or five items around the room
- come in on command
- go searching for the items
- bring each one she finds back to hand, then go searching for the next one

This is an awesome foundation for working up to blind retrieves outdoors, and eventually building in directional commands. I was expecting to work for a week to get to this stage, so I'm super happy that she got the hang so quickly. She also seems to find it a really fun game, which is awesome!

# ¿ Oct 18, 2011 20:34

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Pet Island > My dog is smarter than your honor student: the Dog Training Thread

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