|
Industrial posted:But what if the most awesome thing in the world for your dog is playing with other dogs? You're going to need to keep a litter of puppies in your backpack with you at all times. No, honestly that's hard  I would maybe try finding her absolute most favorite thing ever (food wise)and try to build up to calling her back from playing with a lot of dogs. Since you already have 100% recall inside and on leash, try empty tennis courts like Kerfuffle suggested. Let her run around and sniff and get used to it, and then when it seems like she is likely to come back to you anyway call her and reward her with the food. Or if she is headed in your direction give her the command when she is a foot or so away from you, and then reward. Sometimes if complying with the command is super easy, and they think it was their idea, it breaks down the mental barrier they have where what you are asking for is just TOO hard. So set her up for success. Start with tennis courts alone, then maybe add one dog she is familiar with and do the same thing (ask for her to come when she is very likely to), then maybe add another dog to the mix, and so on. That's just my take on it, someone with more experience may have completely different/better advice. Good luck!
|
#
¿
Nov 13, 2010 06:05
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 08:59 |
|
|
I did that free shaping game you posted the youtube video of with Moxie tonight  She picked up on it instantly, I guess because we've worked on leave it and stay a lot, and we got all the way to putting kibble on her paws before she'd had enough of that nonsense. Gonna slow it down and work up to putting in on her nose  As soon as we get there I will post a video. Any other fun self control games you wanna share? Everyone comments on how calm Moxie is for a 10 month old dog and I credit both PI for all the training tips and Moxie's own natural personality.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 5, 2010 06:04
|
|
|
a life less posted:Instant Jellyfish gave you some great advice. Separation anxiety is really tough to deal with since it happens when you're absent and therefore unable to really "be there" through the process. I do check this thread! I was just way too busy over the holidays so I'm a bit late. When we got Moxie she had some serious separation anxiety. She destroyed her crate, scratched up her nose pretty bad, broke through a window unit a/c to get outside, etc. The advice everyone has already given you is awesome and it definitely sounds like you're on the right track now. What I'd reiterate is that you can never slack off on the training. I'm guilty of slacking but I'm working on that. What we're doing now is every day for fifteen minutes (not necessarily 15 minutes straight, you can break it up into 5 minute blocks) is working on lay down and stay as I get progressively closer to the door. We've done a lot of crate work and she does like her crate. It is the ONLY place she ever gets a peanut butter kong. I'll have her lay down in the crate with the door open and stay. Then I take a step away, step back, treat. 20 times. then 2 steps away, step back, treat. then 3...etc. etc. We're almost to the point where I can walk into the living room (my place is tiny, she can still see me there) and towards the door before she gets out of her crate to follow me. Ideally I'm going to have her stay in her crate lying down while I walk away, out the front door, close the door, wait a few minutes, and come back in. I'm leaving the crate door open for all of it so I know if she stayed in of her own volition or not. Keep in mind to take it very slowly. I plan on spending a week building up each few steps I take away from the crate. Sometimes during the day when she is not watching me I'll hide an awesome treat in her crate. She discovers it on her own later and it's like the crate magically makes delicious things appear all on it's own! We also used to sit behind the crate with the door open and give her treats through the bars when she would walk in on her own. Good luck!
|
|
#
¿
Jan 3, 2011 18:33
|
|
|
a life less posted:Nope. Is it a big deal if I growl at my dog while playing tug? Not a real question I just want her to get excited and growly, but she just looks at me like I'm crazy
|
|
#
¿
Jan 14, 2011 04:49
|
|
|
Hey guys. Here's an update on the separation anxiety, also I think I need some advice. We must have broken the pattern of her chewing the crate liner by putting bricks in the crate because I just put the liner back in on top of the bricks and so far she has not chewed it. This is great news because her elbows and paw pads were starting to look sad from laying on bricks. We moved the crate into the kitchen instead of the bedroom. My place is only like 500 square feet though so it's not like she's far from us at any time. We're also working a lot more heavily on treating and acting stupid excited when she goes in the crate and she's now willing to go hang out in it a bit more than before. However, in order to help her on the road to independence I've decided she can't sleep in bed with us anymore. Ideally I'd like to have her sleeping in the crate but she will bark and neighbors will complain. We did try that for a few hours but sleeping in the crate just isn't going to happen. We've been shutting her out of our room though, and setting her up a nice comfy bed on the couch with her favorite sleeping bag of mine and her favorite toys. I sat out here with her until she was asleep and then I quietly moved to the bedroom. Last night and all of tonight so far she whined and scratched at the door non-stop. Am I correct in thinking that getting her to sleep independently will help with separation anxiety? Is this the best way to go about it? She has kongs, toys, cuddly things, an entire couch to sleep on, and she knows we are here so I would think she'd be alright. Is it just a matter of sticking to our guns and dealing with a few more sleepless nights? Is it completely wrong to react at all when she is seriously freaking out? I have to admit I have twice given her a sharp "eh-eh" which we use for corrections but I'm wary of "any attention is good attention" Please back me up or advise me if I should be doing something differently. I'm the one justifying to the boyfriend why we can't let her come in and cuddle with us, he does not think she will ever get used to sleeping alone and we will never get a good night's sleep again.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 30, 2011 07:16
|
|
|
Will sleeping out of the room help with separation anxiety? We've kicked Moxie out of the bedroom at night for the past three nights but I'd like input on whether or not that's likely to help or hurt her separation anxiety.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 31, 2011 21:23
|
|
|
a life less posted:I wish I knew. I think, in theory, it should help her SA. But in practice, every dog is different. I personally feel like it WOULD help, but I'm very unfamiliar with dealing with separation anxiety. I'm not familiar with it either, any input is helpful as far as I'm concerned. I really think crating her and moving her away gradually would work well, but when we crate her she barks. Even if we are in the room with her she barks. I have paper thin walls and my neighbors can hear me sneeze, never mind Moxie barking at 1 o'clock in the morning. I may give that another shot if she keeps me up all night whining (and peeing where she shouldn't!), I just hate crating her all night and then crating her first thing in the morning so I can go to class. My boyfriend has started sleeping with earplugs but I'm way too nervous she'll get into something and get hurt and I won't hear it so I'm the one staying up all night listening to her whine to come in the room. I do love this dog, but it would be nice if she maybe loved me just a little less... edit: Also what we've been doing is allowing her back in the room and on the bed come morning. Boyfriend leaves at 4:30am and lets Moxie in, then she sleeps with me another few hours. Should we go all or nothing and ban her from the bed even during the day?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 31, 2011 21:40
|
|
|
Thanks guys! I'm going to stick to my guns for at least another week then. It's good to have some backup so that when I'm laying there in the wee hours of the morning hearing her freaking out I don't doubt myself as much. Hopefully we'll see some improvement in the next few days. I'll try playing some white noise too, that's a good idea. Right now the balance between her comfort level and not getting kicked out of my house is having her out of our room, but not locked in her crate. So far no complaints from the neighbor but it beats me how she doesn't hear all the fussing Moxie does.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 31, 2011 22:36
|
|
|
smokmnky posted:escaping daschund If using carbiners or zip ties does not work to keep the door closed, you may want to consider a different kind of crate. An airline style plastic crate might be harder for him to break out of. What I have for Moxie (can't remember who here suggested it in the first place) is a kennel-aire crate. The wires are in a mesh pattern and the door has a screw shut latch. I'm pretty sure it could contain houndini. Otherwise I'd just keep doing what you're doing. Play crate games, constantly reward for being in the crate, and provide some non-destructible chew toys and cuddle toys in there for when you leave. I always leave Moxie with her kong stuffed with peanut butter and various goodies as well as her toy rabbit which she is obsessed with.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 2, 2011 05:18
|
|
|
Regarding treat size, I'll give Moxie (40 lbs) the teenist little bit of treats. Usually I break up zuke's mini sized treats into like four for more pieces. Basically whatever bit I can break off with my fingernail is what she gets. She'll work for treats way smaller than you would think. I can't imagine how quickly we would go through treats if I even just gave her small whole ones all the time.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 2, 2011 16:34
|
|
|
Definitely avoid only putting him in the crate when you leave. If he doesn't tear up blankets and bedding while you're there I don't see a problem with putting them in there as long as you can supervise. I tried in vain to find something Moxie could not destroy in her crate that would be soft enough to lay on with no luck. Came across a couple of things though you might want to give a try if you're looking for something you can always have in the crate. Primo Pads: http://primopads.com/ Dura-Beds: http://www.cushionguy.com/Titan_Bed_System.html Like I said I haven't tried either product out, if you do I'd like to hear a review!
|
|
#
¿
Feb 2, 2011 19:19
|
|
|
Harry Lime posted:If he is very thirsty when you get back it means either he is barking constantly when you are gone or drooling excessively due to nerves. Or if he is like Freya, both. If the crate is on a hardwood floor your worry will not be scratches but water damage. Last night we noticed moisture under Freya's brick bed(an idea shamelessly stolen from Cassiope) in her crate moved it to investigate. What we found was that her drool had seeped through the cracks of the concrete tile and collected under the crate. We now have a patch of heavily water damaged floor that will cost us a fair bit when we stop renting in our current apartment. Yeah, this happened to me too. I posted briefly about it but did not think to try to find you and warn you. I've moved her crate into the kitchen since it has linoleum instead of hardwood. Also, after a few months of having brick bed her elbows and chest were getting rubbed raw. I don't know if Freya does this but Moxie will tear up anything soft we put in there. With the move to the kitchen I went ahead and put a new plastic liner just up on top of the bricks and hoped really really hard that she would not chew it. So far (and it's been a few weeks) it seems to have worked. I guess having bricks broke the pattern of behavior with her chewing the liner. Also the new liner has no remnants of the apparently delicious bitter apple spray we put all over the other one.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 3, 2011 19:18
|
|
|
hey guys. We just moved into a new place, instead of my crappy duplex we now get a nicer place with a fenced in yard. Yay! Moxie gets to run and pee to her heart's content. However, we now have more neighbors than before and as it turns out this is a problem. Moxie barks in her crate. I don't know how long she barks for. We need to figure out a way to film her and see. My neighbor commented to me this morning though that yesterday Moxie was "really throwing a fit" and "was it because you left her in a cage?" With just a few noise violations we can either be evicted or forced to get rid of Moxie. I don't know how to curb the barking immediately. We've been doing "calm time" in the crate and she loves going in there because she gets awesome treats every single time. She'll let me close the crate door and she'll just hang out in there for a long time as I'm going around the house and outside. I think she just starts barking later, after we have been gone awhile. What my boyfriend wants to try is a bark collar. They spray citronella when the dog barks. Is this a horrible idea? We really need to avoid getting kicked out of this place
|
|
#
¿
Feb 9, 2011 01:21
|
|
|
Yeah, I was pretty skeptical but thought I'd see what y'all thought anyway. My boyfriend is an idiot and is way too reactive about this whole thing. He wants to use a shock collar. Convo went like this: Me: I don't think the citronella will stop her barking Bf: No we need a shock collar. Me: What? No. Bf: Why? Me: We're never putting a shock collar on this dog. It wouldn't stop her barking anyway, it would just make her more manic and anxious. Bf: You can't tell me that if she were getting shocked she would just keep barking. Me: Yes she would, or she would shut down and be worse off than before. Bf: No, she would be getting shocked just when she barked, she's smart enough to figure that out. Me: No. We can get her a pheromone collar. Ugh, I hope he was just trolling me. I am not getting a shock collar or barking collar for her. We're amping up the training. Thanks for all the suggestions guys
|
|
#
¿
Feb 9, 2011 02:35
|
|
|
This will be our...third or fourth night in the new place. Yeah don't worry, I'm not letting any shock collars happen ever. I made him do the crate training time tonight and I think he gets it, he was just anxious about noise violations. Honestly I don't think the barking is a new behavior, I think we just now have neighbors close enough to hear it. I'm still going to give her lots of time to get settled, and we're going to play music and get a pheromone collar and everything. I just wanted to share the shock collar convo because I knew y'all would have the same reaction as me.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 9, 2011 04:07
|
|
|
Levitate posted:Hey a life less, did you ever have any problems with your dog being too focused on you or waiting for a command when you try to do behavior shaping? Like I'm thinking of the video you posted of teaching Cohen to pick up her food bowl, and all I can see is my dog ignoring the food bowl and waiting for me to do something. I know the question wasn't directed at me, but I'm gonna throw my two cents in. I had to teach Moxie to play with her kong wobbler through shaping, as well as a few other things. Basically you just start extremely small. When she would glance anywhere in the general direction of the wobbler I would click and treat, then when she would look at it, then when she would get closer to it, then when she would touch it, etc. etc. until she was knocking it all around the room. To get her to stop focusing on me and understand "hey mess with this" I just point at it/try to draw her attention to the object I want her to interact with. It seems to work for her, but this may be because we have another command "find it" in which I point out a treat or food tidbit on the ground. She knows if she goes in the direction I am pointing she is more likely to find it quickly.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 9, 2011 19:32
|
|
|
Levitate posted:Cool, I think that's what I was looking for more or less, thanks No problem I'm still learning but glad I can help once in a while too
|
|
#
¿
Feb 9, 2011 19:47
|
|
|
try cutting string cheese (or other cheese) into itsy bitsy pieces, same with hot dogs, chopped up chicken works well too and if you want to be messy you can smear a dab of peanut butter onto all the pieces, my dog works for bread it is the absolute best thing in the world to her so for very demanding things (like staying in her crate) she does get bits of bread. Make sure your dog doesn't have any allergies to wheat or anything if you're going to be using it. Get creative, anything that isn't actually bad for your dog can be a great training treat. Just remember to scale it appropriately and not go overboard. The sample packs of dog food is also a great idea. I have samples of grain free kinds and Moxie flips for them (not literally but maybe we should work on that)
|
|
#
¿
Feb 10, 2011 13:05
|
|
|
Moxie usually goes down in sphinx if we're training, but if I say "stay" while she's down she shifts over so she's comfy. I think she also rolls her eyes at me when she does that, like she thinks she's all rebellious for changing how she's laying when she knows she's gonna be there awhile.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2011 14:45
|
|
|
Rixatrix posted:^ Not a life less, but put a piece of sticky tape on her nose. She'll try to paw it off, guaranteed - though this isn't really shaping anymore I was trying to do the same thing with Moxie, but she got really offended by the tape and them wouldn't come near me anymore or look at me. I felt really bad and stopped trying for that trick altogether. So yeah, count me in as interested if there are other ways to teach that too.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2011 19:20
|
|
|
nolen posted:What do you guys recommend for a dog who is not really motivated by anything? What kind of treats have you tried? Sometimes it's just a matter of finding a food she looooooves. Cheese, hot dogs, boiled chicken, peanut butter, pizza, etc. You're only giving little itsy bitsy pieces so pick whatever she'll go nuts for (that isn't toxic or anything of course). Also try withholding a meal or two. A healthy dog won't be hurt by missing a meal and she might be a lot more interested in food if she isn't getting it in her bowl. For doing tricks outside, I feel your pain. Moxie really couldn't give a drat about me if we are out and about. We're working on it though and the trick is to take it slowly. If she'll do the tricks inside great, do them near the door. If she'll do them near the door try them in the threshold, then in the backyard just on the other side of the door, then a foot away from the door, etc, etc. Wait to move farther away until she will do the trick with 90% reliability at the current spot.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 15, 2011 18:44
|
|
|
Moxie learned to beg! The good kind! It took a couple tries of various lurings and positionings (including having her feet lifted off the ground and up for her) but eventually she wanted some of my chicken salad SO BAD she jumped up in frustration and waved her paws around. click, treat, and you could see the lightbulb switch on. Now we've just got to work on her holding the position for more than a split second. What hand cue do you use, a life less? My verbal cue is going to be "say please!"
|
|
#
¿
Apr 28, 2011 04:13
|
|
|
a life less posted:My hand signal is my right hand in a fist. The motion is my arm moving to my chest, and my wrist curling in a bit. Kind of like a "come here" motion but with a closed fist. Yeah, I ended up settling on both my hands coming together in front of my chest and holding them kinda balled up. Like how a little kid would squeeze their hands together whilst begging their parents for something. I think it works well with the "say please" cue. Now Moxie is training my boyfriend to give her food during dinner. I am going to work on a "place" command so that she can earn tidbits by laying down calmly a few feet away....instead of rolling over, begging, jumping up and trying to sit while wildly waving her paws around and hitting him with them.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 29, 2011 15:44
|
|
|
a life less posted:I tend to ramble in the mornings. Hey everyone, ask A Life Less more questions in the mornings. I learn a lot when she rambles.
|
|
#
¿
May 2, 2011 15:29
|
|
|
get out posted:Thank you so much for this. What kind of long lasting chews would you recommend? I'm very nervous leaving anything in the crate with her while we are gone. I don't want her to choke or something. Kongs filled with peanut butter, cream cheese, meat, cheese, bananas, or any other snacks your dog likes work well. If you freeze them or partially freeze them they last even longer. I know there are others out there but that's the only thing I've trusted my dog with unsupervised so far.
|
|
#
¿
May 10, 2011 21:08
|
|
|
My dog has some pretty bad separation anxiety too, so I get where you're coming from and it is heartbreaking. The kong definitely helps. I fill it up all the way with all her absolute favorite things, and I'll usually throw more treats in the crate with her that she can just gobble up. I don't use the specific kong biscuits because it seems like a waste of money. A jar of peanut butter plus normal dog treats or food (wet food frozen is always a big hit) are more economical. I also feed her dinner in the crate and reward her with food for anytime she walks into the crate. Basically I've made the crate equal delicious food. Food is her favorite thing, and I want her to love the crate. There is no better way to make her love it than to give her her favorite thing while she is in the crate. I was not able to find anything to pad the crate with that stood up to the panic induced destruction of separation anxiety. Anything soft I put in the crate was destroyed, and the plastic liner was even destroyed eventually. For quite a while my poor girl was just on bricks in her crate because it was the only thing that could stand up to her jaws-o-destruction. I'm thankful now that she will at least tolerate the plastic liner in there to lay on. ....so basically if you happen to find something nice for your pup to sleep on in there it is great, if not at least the plastic liner works. You might want to head on over to the Pet Nutrition thread for some pet food advice. Unless she's on Hill's for a veterinary mandated reason you're probably going to want to switch. If she has a medical reason for being on Hill by all means stay on it.
|
|
#
¿
May 10, 2011 22:17
|
|
|
get out posted:You don't think a 40 lb dog could swallow it or anything? That's my nightmare. If it will be cool then I'll load it up with peanut butter and treats and let her go to town. Definitely watch closely the first few times you give your dog any new toy. Mine happens to be fine with kongs unsupervised and she is 36 lbs but not much of a voracious chewer. Some dogs go through kongs in minutes and destroy them. You want to know if your dog is okay with the toy before you leave them alone with it. That said, kongs are supposed to be one of the toughest indestructo toys out there so hopefully it will be fine. I heard recommendations for using cow mat to line the bottom of the crate. It's a rubbery liner they use in cow stalls that can stand up to the sharp cow hooves so should be okay to use for a dog too. Unfortunately my local feed & seed store had no idea what I was talking about when I asked for it so YMMV.
|
|
#
¿
May 11, 2011 16:12
|
|
|
get out posted:The Kong was a hit! I have a bone-shaped kong for her with holes at either end for PB/treats. I filled them up and she went to town in her crate/cage thing. She seems a lot better today, but still shakes when she thinks shes in trouble and ducks when we move too fast. I hope that gets better in time. It's heartbreaking. That's awesome! I love all the kong products, I've got a wobbler too but we don't leave that unsupervised with Moxie. I actually never ended up finding out where to get cow mat, it was recommended to me by someone here but my farm store didn't have it. I would check any store that sells livestock equipment though.
|
|
#
¿
May 12, 2011 03:01
|
|
|
Meniscus posted:Chihuahua stuff I'd give it a little more time. It is completely normal to go through a "buyer's remorse" period with your dog, and it will take her a little while to settle in and act like herself (give her a month or so). I really don't know how to fix humping, can you redirect her onto something loads more interesting when she starts? Maybe a game of tug or fetch, or a delicious chew treat? If she keeps humping give her a time out, and if she quits and plays something else reward, reward, reward! You really don't want to ever use the crate as a punishment place for time out. If you need to give her a time out take her into the bathroom and close her in there for a few seconds. And for initial crate training try easier to access treats than a frozen kong. It might just be too difficult for her to work on the kong right now if it is frozen. Try just filling it with peanut butter and cheese or something to get her used to chewing and playing with it, then later move up to frozen and difficult kongs. If she still won't eat it give her any kind of treat she will eat in the crate, feed her meals in the crate, and play lots of games in and near the crate. You can google "crate games" to see some ideas. She's a cutie, I'm sure things will get easier once you get a feel for each other.
|
|
#
¿
May 31, 2011 04:07
|
|
|
Can you talk to the owner/neighbor and just straight up say that your dog will attack theirs if theirs is off leash and comes to say hi? Obviously that only works for the one dog next door, I don't know what to do about all the other ones Congrats on the move though! It sounds nice
|
|
#
¿
Jun 4, 2011 03:42
|
|
|
errol _flynn posted:How do I keep my dog from running across the road and stay in our yard instead? When I am out with my dog and watching him, it's not a problem but when I am not right there with him, he slips across the road to the newly dug/planted farm fields in a second. I assume they are just chock full of tempting new fresh smells and cowpoops. Yeah you probably shouldn't be letting your dog outside in an unfenced area unsupervised. Some dogs are fine unleashed (and still supervised) but the great majority are going to get into trouble and you won't be there to save them. It's a recipe for disaster.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 10, 2011 00:54
|
|
|
I would phase out the treats for your standard everyday behaviors, but still reward randomly (like you said, basically). Rewarding randomly just adds that extra reinforcement that guarantees your dog will want to keep working for you. Sure, he may want to keep working because he loves you and loves training...but giving him a jackpot every so often won't hurt anything and will help solidify his desire to do what you say. On the other hand, going a whole year without phasing out treats sounds like a good way to get your dog to require bribing in order to do even your most basic tricks. I would phase them out sooner.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 10, 2011 21:54
|
|
|
I'd slow it down. Remember that the more time you spend building a behavior the stronger that behavior will be. I've never worked with a reactive dog though, so take my advice with a grain of salt. Instead of reducing rewards every day maybe keep the game the same for a couple of days before changing it up on her.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 11, 2011 01:31
|
|
|
Ok I feel bad because I have like 750 posts I haven't read in this thread and I need to catch up, but I have a question/rant. I'm in an ethology class this semester and it's very interesting. I was super excited to get into it and I was looking forward to all the awesome animal behavior stuff we would learn. Today the professor started talking about dog training though, and he's a raving Cesar Milan fanboy We haven't gotten to the section where we really cover animal learning and everything, but he used the example of a dog to talk about tactile releasers. He said there was this family that had an extremeley aggressive doberman which would bite everyone in the family because it thought it was the alpha. The trainer had the family, one at a time (starting with the husband because he was the most dominant) come in and hold the dog down bodily and squeeze it's throat until it stopped being aggressive. Professor said the dog was perfectly behaved after that and the children could even pull its tail and everything without any bad behavior. He held this up as a shining example of dog training to the class and told them all that Cesar Milan is the one dog trainer he knows of who really has it right and that it is amazing since he's had no formal education. This didn't sit right with me, obviously, but I didn't want to call shenanigans on a professor who probably has a whole lot more studies and research and credibility to back him up than I had at the top of my head right then. So after class I talked with him for a minute and asked about his views on dog training, since it is a topic that interests me and that I had done a lot of reading on. I told him everything I had read so far had pointed towards positive reinforcement being the preferred method of training nowadays. He basically said that positive reinforcement was because of PETA and "humane societies" and that it doesn't work, people are just squeamish about negative reinforcement. His logic was that if you watch a wolf pack or lion colony the parents physically punish the cubs when they misbehave. He also added that of course doesn't mean you are supposed to beat animals but negative reinforcement isn't a bad thing. Other things he mentioned were that "you can't train an aggressive dog with positive reinforcement" and "the only reason that trainer died at sea world 2 years ago was because they tried to use positive reinforcement." Honestly this all came as a huge shock to me, everything he has said in class leading up to this seemed to make sense and be well sourced (it was all about wild animals though, no domestic ones really). I get the feeling that he may just not be up to date on the literature of why positive reinforcement is the "better" way to train. I'm planning on talking with him again, because I don't want to just sit there and meekly take notes on why Cesar Milan is the only dog trainer worth listening to. I'm planning on linking him the video of Sophia Yin desensitizing the Jack Russell to nail clipping to show that positive reinforcement does indeed work on aggressive animals. I'm also going to send him the TED talk Ian Dunbar does. Other than that, are there any scientific studies on the subject I could use to present my case? I'd really appreciate any help because I just got flustered when he shot all my questions down and implied I was a PETA activist.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 30, 2012 23:11
|
|
|
Bash Ironfist posted:Your professor sounds like a jerk. Also that quote made me imagine someone trying to alpha roll an orca. Wanna see that. That's what I told my boyfriend when I called him to complain about the professor. I was under the impression positive reinforcement works because even though you can hit your dog, you try that poo poo with a grizzly or an orca and they will laugh at you then eat you. Edit: Honestly the professor isn't a jackass. I think he just has a lot more experience analyzing the behavior of wild animals, and hasn't kept up with the literature on dog training. I am probably not the most knowledgeable representative for positive reinforcement but I intend to at least try. He seems reasonable and I'm not going to be rude about any of this. Worst case scenario he convinces me dominance theory is the way to go and I start alpha rolling Moxie (she would just roll over for belly rubs) Cassiope fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Jan 30, 2012 |
|
#
¿
Jan 30, 2012 23:27
|
|
|
I just tried with Moxie, she seemed to get it but I didn't do a different verbal cue for right vs. left. Just put her in a sit/stay and threw a toy left, then a toy right. Pointed to one and said "get it!", rewarded her for bringing it, then pointed to the "other" and said "get it!" She did it three or four times in a row, I think dogs understand pointing pretty well.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 5, 2012 01:15
|
|
|
Hey Everyone. I've been gone from the forums for a few years and haven't had any pets in my life for that time. That's recently changed and I'm back It's nice to see a lot of the same people still here dispensing awesome advice. This is Piper    Piper is 2.5 years old and belongs to my boyfriend. I've been in town visiting for a month and have been working on some training with her though she already knew a lot of the basics like sit, down, stay, don't jump on people, etc. She's a complete goof, super loving, and pretty responsive to training. She's also a super stereotypical pit. This issue now, however, is that Piper is dog aggressive (surprise!). Boyfriend didn't realize before how reactive she is and that it's something that needs some attention. He realizes it now and is open to working with her and training. I'm trying to help but I know when I'm in over my head so I'm turning to you guys. Also, if anyone could recommend a good trainer in Phoenix, AZ for dog aggressive dogs that would be fantastic. I'm going to be out of town again until August so it would be nice if he has a professional to consult and who can work with her over that time. Here's what is going on: Piper was adopted as a puppy, went to PetSmart puppy classes, went to the dog park, played with friend and family's adult dogs and all was hunky dory. As she reached 1.5-2 she began getting into scuffles at the dog park. There were a total of 3 fights with smaller dogs before she stopped going to the dog park. She's reactive to seeing almost any dog when out on walks or runs. With small dogs she has an aggressive reaction, with bigger dogs it's a toss up on whether she'll try to play or if she'll bark and lunge. We're not letting her close to them and we're avoiding dogs as much as possible when out for walks but sometimes we see them anyway. Ideally we would like her to be able to tolerate seeing and maybe even walking past other dogs without reacting. Also for her to have supervised play with certain dogs that she gets along well with. The one factor that's going to make this extra difficult is this guy right here  Boyfriend is getting a roommate in two weeks and this is the roommates' dog. He weighs about five pounds. I'm not even sure dog aggression is going to be the issue here so much as prey drive (Piper has buckets of that). Pretty sure she's just gonna think it's a squirrel and want to eat it. On the plus side, both dogs are crate trained and boyfriend is willing to crate and rotate and do slow introductions as per the advice of this forum, a trainer if we can find one, and me. The resources I've been looking at are: http://badrap-blog.blogspot.com/2009/08/fostering-drive-in-slow-lane-for-dogdog.html http://www.clickertraining.com/dont-socialize-the-dog (as per ALL advice in the last few pages) and I'm going to recommend he buy and read "Fight!" by Jean Donaldson, "Behavior Adjustment Training: BAT for Fear, Frustration, and Aggression in Dogs" by Grisha Stewart, and "Click to Calm" by Emma Parsons. We bought a muzzle and have been clicker training her to stick her nose in it and keep it there for longer and longer though we're only up to about five seconds so far. I'm imagining if she's comfortable wearing it then it could reduce the chances of tinydog getting swallowed whole. Is this an idiotic plan? Right now I don't think we've done any harm in just teaching her to wear it but if it's stupid I don't want to put it on her for meeting another dog. Are there any other recommendations to start off with? Also I'm super interested in some detail on how you train a super solid leave it for seeing other dogs in public places Superconsndar if you're reading this.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 12, 2015 19:50
|
|
|
Instant Jellyfish posted:Holy poo poo there are a ton of really awful dog trainers in AZ, sorry dude. I've been looking and pretty much any trainer that works with aggressive dogs just slaps an ecollar on them and calls it a day. Be really careful when looking for a trainer! This guy seems not completely awful and it looks like the Arizona Humane Society does private lessons too which might be a good place to start. If they're anything like any other shelter they probably see DA pits all day every day. Thanks! I sent him a message and hopefully he'll get in touch soon. The dogs are definitely going to be crated and rotated and there are no current plans for them to meet face to face. I'm just terrified that a door is going to get left open or one dog let out in the yard while the other is still there and poo poo will hit the fan. On the plus side, since my boyfriend has realized/admitted that Piper does have reactivity towards other dogs he is serious about working with her on it. Also, he talked to the roommate and told him the scoop since before they were both thinking "well, both dogs are crate trained and they'll probably be friends anyway so it will be ok". Now if things get too difficult or scary the roommate will probably look for another place to live with no hard feelings. I'm leaving town in a couple days, so I'm really hoping he continues to work with Piper on this consistently. I appreciate everyone's advice!
|
|
#
¿
Mar 16, 2015 19:38
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 29, 2024 08:59 |
|
|
Yeah, I'm hoping the chi owner realizes what a bad idea this is and decides to look for another place. He wouldn't be on the hook for the rent or anything so it would be best case scenario in my opinion. Also, I need some specific advice for walks. Last night we took Piper on a walk and she's been doing great with loose leash walking in general but it goes out the window a bit (she pulls but not necessarily hard) when we see other dogs. We passed a couple of dogs. The first was a large bully breed who just stopped and stared at her from the other side of the street but was relaxed and moved along when his owner pulled him on. Piper had her tail up, ears up, hackles down, and was whining while staring at him. They were on the opposite sidewalk from us. The second dog was a small little poofball and I didn't even see it until it was directly across the street from us, it was so little I thought there were just two ladies walking and I didn't see the dog. When Piper noticed that she pulled against the leash while up on her hind legs and had hackles up and was barking and growling. For the first dog we just encouraged her to come along with us and keep walking and told her she was being good. For the second, we body blocked as well as we could and once they were a bit farther away asked her for a sit and stay and rewarded her for that before continuing walking. Obviously we need to do a better job keeping an eye out for other dogs along the path. If I had noticed them earlier I would have had Piper see them, then stand (because sit would be too hard for her right then) and stay and wait for them to pass from the opposite side of the street, giving as much distance as possible. When I'm on my bike and we see other dogs I pull over to the opposite side of the road, kneel with her on the other side of the bike, and have her stay. She usually is super focused on the dogs but if she sees them in advance she just whines and focuses on them instead of barking and lunging. Are we handling this right? Unfortunately we don't have any bombproof dogs available to work with from a distance so we're stuck with what we pass on walks for now. Is there a better approach than teaching a solid "stay" and "look at me"? Hopefully with enough work on that we'll be able to keep moving even when we see other dogs though I know it will take a long time to get there.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 17, 2015 18:33
|
|