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Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Mobius posted:

I recently made a shift away from IT towards development. I was in a technical systems analyst/support/DBA/product guru sort of role for about five years and gradually took on more development responsibilities. I left that company to pursue development full time. My title right now is technically "programmer," but I think I'd eventually like to be in a "software engineer" or "architect" type of role.

Basically, I love the whole process of software development, but I REALLY like the bigger picture side of identifying business needs and/or deficiencies in current systems, then determining how to re-engineer them or build new features and products to fill gaps.

I consider myself a competent, but not amazing coder. I don't have a CS degree. I see my current role as a chance to improve those skills, but I'm never going to be the guy that eeks the most out of every single CPU cycle, or busts out a brilliant algorithm in no time. That's just not where my interests lie.

Am I right in thinking that an engineering or architect position is where I should be aiming? If so, what steps can I take next to move into that kind of role? My current position has opportunities to move into a tech lead or management position, but there's nobody in an architect sort of role that guides the long-term vision of the product.

Sounds like a cross between a PM and a developer. Depends on the team and the company, every one uses their PMs (or equivalent) differently. From my experience you won't get to do the 'determining how to re-engineer them' bit. PMs get the requirements from the users and then developers come up with solutions to satisfy them. At least on my team, that's how things go.

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Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


HondaCivet posted:

Wow I did not realize this thread was here or I would've made some posts sooner . . . I graduated in December with a degree in mechanical engineering but late in my degree I decided that I hated ME and loved CS. I took a bunch of CS classes alongside my ME ones and got through data structures before I ran out of time. Am I really dumb for trying to go for entry-level dev jobs? These interviews sound mostly like material I've seen/could maybe brush up on but they sound scary as heck. :ohdear:

A lot of companies call their developers software engineers for a reason ;) Didn't you have to learn some programming in first year Engineering or something? I'm sure a mech would be fine as a dev.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Smugdog Millionaire posted:

I don't think this is true. I don't believe it's possible to be a good C# coder and know nothing about LINQ and not want to.

If you're writing .Net and you're not stuck in 2.0 land, there's no excuse to not use LINQ. There are performance costs you need to be aware of, but really if you're manipulating collections LINQ is the poo poo.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Mobius posted:

Is that because they're so simple or because they're pointless? I had never used singletons before my current job, and I keep coming across them littered around various parts of our codebase. I get the point of a singleton is to restrict to a single instance of the class, but I just don't see how they're particularly useful. I especially don't see how our code benefits from them.

The former. Everyone knows what a singleton is.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Meliv posted:

Got my first ever job interview tomorrow at a sports good company, maintaining and updating their website. Just wondered what you guys think of trying to be funny in the interview? I don't mean strutting into the room being all goofy but just trying to keep the atmosphere light so they think I'm confident and could be easy to work/get along with? Or is it to my advantage to keep is stoic and professional?

Play along with whatever they're doing is my suggestion.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Considering all the bullshit currently around "Unemployed people please do not apply" statements in job ads, I would take the job if only for that.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Ensign Expendable posted:

What the hell? Why would a company not hire unemployed people?

http://money.cnn.com/2010/06/16/news/economy/unemployed_need_not_apply/index.htm

It's appalling, but the general gist is, "Well if they were a quality candidate they would already be employed so clearly :derp:"

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


A better question than, "Do you remember X algorithm from a class you took 5 years ago?" might be, "So write me a sorting algorithm."

Very open ended, lets the candidate ask lots of clarifying questions, see how they approach the problem. And if they do whip out quicksort, change the problem by giving them conditions that make quicksort particularly bad. Say one where mergesort is a better choice :v:

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Never mind.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Junior Train Director reporting to the Executive VP of Train Engineering and Operations

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


I stopped reading that article as soon as I got to that line. It's insane.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Honestly I was a bit surprised at the lack of "M$? We use Unix" :smug:

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


lazarenth posted:

Hey goons, I realize this post is kind of the inverse of this thread.

I just got my first actual job in software after graduation about 3 or 4 weeks ago. In the next couple of weeks I will be helping my manager interview for our first intern. I am cool with this, the only problem I have is I have no idea what to ask.

The first applicant is just starting his sophomore year, I think (he went to my alma mater and judging from his skills listed and my old curricula). He's done basic Java and data structures, basically.

Would this be a good question?

Let's say you needed to make a custom stack. Given the choice between an array list and a (doubly) linked list, which would you choose, and why?

Or should I ask a more open ended question, like "How would you go about making a stack data structure in Java"?

A friend gave me a good second one, asking about how to go about trying to avoid collisions in a hash map.

Ask it open ended.
Ask how the candidate would handle collisions, not how to avoid them. Discuss pros and cons of his/her approach, performance costs, etc.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


shrughes posted:

Those are horrible questions, you're basically asking if they've seen a hash table before or not and dealt with that sort of thing.

I'd expect anyone going through a university CS program or with any experience to know what a hash table is and how it works at a rudimentary level. And if they don't, it's not like it's the only possible question to ask.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


shrughes posted:

The problem is that it's just quizzing them on knowledge they already may have, not knowledge on something new. It's perfectly reasonable for a student to have breezed by hash tables and forgotten them or had them skipped entirely in his data structures class. It's also easy for somebody who's not good at programming to recite the knowledge he was told in class. This doesn't select very well for good programmers, not as well as questions that talk about something they haven't seen before.

That's entirely possible. I think it's unreasonable to say that questions on data structures are off the table because someone might already know about them.

Buuut you know what I feel like this about to turn into a religious discussion so I guess I'll just say that I think everyone's looking for different things in an interview and I don't think that anyone has the perfect answer :shobon:

Chasiubao fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Sep 13, 2011

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Now is not too early. Microsoft is already interviewing interns for the summer of 2012.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


For us, if you wait until January or February, most of the spots are already full and you're up against a lot of competition for way fewer spots.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


NotHet posted:

I'm graduating in December, when should I start applying to jobs? Is there a good rule or is it more case by case?

Summer of 2011.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Engineering degrees are pretty common where I work. If you can show relevant experience in the field, I don't think most places will care that you're coming from an Engineering background versus say, Computer science.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Ranma posted:

I read a blog post from someone who applied to Google after 20+ years in the industry. They asked him what his college GPA was.

Personally, I think GPA is roughly as important as what school you went to. If you put your college on your resume, you may as well throw in your GPA. FWIW, I do some interviewing/recruiting for a major software company and if I don't see a GPA I assume you did poorly, and will be focusing a lot more on basic concepts to make sure you have them down.

Is this true for all applicants or only new grads?

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


shrike82 posted:

I've been helping my team with resume vetting.

Setting aside how 3/4 of applicants are mainland Chinese/Indians (tough for them to stand out), it amazes me how people with great looking resumes bomb our IQ test. This is pre-contact with anyone on our team; we have them take an online 3rd party IQ test.

An inexplicable number of people coming from top CS/engineering schools/with a good work pedigree getting sub-50 percentile for the test. W T F.

I'm pretty sure that the real WTF is that you and your team think IQ tests are a good screening mechanism.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Maybe it's because I'm not an American, but what the gently caress does "we're from the top-5 schools" have to do with anything?

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Ithaqua posted:

Agreed. Although I live in the NJ/NYC area, the cheapest I've ever seen competent outsourced development go for was about $100/hr.

Yeah but how did they do on the IQ test :v:

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Xguard86 posted:

I have CS 101 coding skills or below but do excellent on standardized testing. I also have a well formatted resume So, where can I collect my check?

But did you go to a top 5 school?

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Pweller posted:

Does anyone have experience getting a written document to to be signed by an employer saying they aren't affected by work done outside of work hours and duties? Any specific wording I should use?

eg. Employer acknowledges that it is acceptable for employees to conduct business outside of blah blah so long as it does not constitute competition with the business...

Is there a decent template to start with out there?

Considering how screwed you could be if you gently caress it up, I would consider an actual lawyer.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Also, post here with the advice your campus career centre gave you regarding your resume. I saw a lot of resumes at the last career fair I was at that were terrible, on the advice of the career / intern centre :psyduck:

Call out your non-school stuff. Everyone's done the same projects and taken the same classes. You need to stand out if you have that ability. Don't come off as desperate. Research the companies there and have an idea of what they do, and what you want to do. Enthusiasm is one thing, telling someone that you'll do anything just sounds a bit sad :(

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


kitten smoothie posted:

Seconding this. I saw a lot of people really enthusiastically tell me "oh I wrote a system for tracking bank accounts" (or put it on their resume) as if they had interned at a bank or something big. No, that was just a standard project at in the database theory course at that school, because EVERYONE told me the same thing.

You wrote a tracking system? What a coincidence so did all these other people who are probably your classmates :v:

'Sup fellow tech fair buddy? :)

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Also, use company websites, not Monster / Craigslist / whatever.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


I've heard of technical PMs, there's no reason why you can't be one of those. Hell I'd prefer a PM who would have some idea of code so that I can explain why his feature is going to take twice as long as his estimates :argh:

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Put your work experience first. When I read resumes, I care way, way more about your actual experience than your classes or even your classwork. Remember, you want to stand out. Listing the same classes that everyone else at your university / college took doesn't help that. I'm not saying leave it off entirely, but I am saying that when I read a resume, I barely pay attention to those unless it's something really unique.

Ditto class projects. I can't tell you how many resumes I've seen where I think, Wow, you wrote an elevator control system / ATM backend / other project? You don't say! So did these 10 other folks. What makes you stand out?

If you were on a team, list that it was a team project. Personally I like to know if you've worked on a team before; I like to ask about it and what you contributed to it.

Also seconding removing the line about extensible hashing and trees. Would you put that you know quicksort and mergesort as well?

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


hobbesmaster posted:

Students put all that garbage on a resume because the career center folks tell them that their resumes must be exactly one page. No more, no less!

If you insist on putting that algorithm stuff on there put in quantum bogosort. Might get you a callback if it makes someone laugh...

Sure, but that doesn't mean we should tell them that it's okay to do so ;)

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Milotic posted:

Also protip: In certain fields no one will look at your github. Their value as a recruitment filter is greatly overrated.

That's because the first screen is usually a recruiter, who isn't necessarily technical. If it's not something that they can read quickly, odds are good it won't be seen. That whole thing about people spending 30 seconds on a resume or less is true, and popping open a browser and figuring out how to navigate github (especially for a non-technical person) makes that a much longer process.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


When I'm at a recruiting gig looking at resumes, I'm looking for stuff that makes you stand out. That means things outside of school work. Internships are great, but if you have a project you did in your spare time, or a game jam type thing, that's fine too!

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


how!! posted:

In my experience, personal projects don't mean squat when it comes to hiring. In all my years of doing interviews, I've been asked to talk about my personal projects maybe twice or three times. The rest of the time they only ask me about what I've done at my previous jobs. I usually try to steer the conversation towards my personal projects, because they're easier for me to talk about, but most interviews could care less. For reference I have about 19 repos on my github which includes around 100,00 lines of code I've written over the past half decade.

That's because you have previous jobs. For someone who doesn't, personal projects are all they have.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


Tres Burritos posted:

I have the phrase, "Modified existing MySQL database to optimize static database generation and mirror concurrency". Does that track? What I'm trying to say is, "we had a database, I was hitting it so hard and so often with updates that the mirrors couldn't keep up, I jiggered with the database structure and now the mirrors can keep up". Is there a better way to say that?

Numbers can demonstrate that. "Reduced static database generation time from X to Y."

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


KNITS MY FEEDS posted:

I got a phone screen request from Amazon a week ago but it was for a full time rather than an internship (that I applied for). The e-mail said I should ask about internships if I was interested in one so I asked about an internship. The recruiter replied telling me that they'd contact me in January 2013 to interview for a summer internship.

The thing is, I had heard that they were already interviewing for internships this month, did I miss the boat?

e: Agh, so many broken links on Amazon's internship site

You probably missed the boat for the next round of internships. Whoever they're interviewing right now is probably scheduled to start in January or something. But if they're anything like where I work, they hire interns to start in batches, and you missed this one, but they're inviting you to interview for the next one.

Totally normal.

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


My colleagues are funny assholes who told me to, "Make him cry!" when I asked for advice about questions to ask during a phone screen :smith: I've screened before when not-in person, but in that case I had access to a virtual white board type setup so I could ask actual coding questions, but never a pure phone screen.

Anyone got any advice?

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


shrughes posted:

Depending on how often that happens, you might want to try on the phone screen asking a simple coding question or two using stypi or some other online collaborative editor.

edit: I've also found it to be a good tool on some non-coding questions.

I'm going to try stypi, thanks very much for the suggestion!

Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


I wanted to thank everyone for the ideas for interviewing over the phone. stypi.com was a really good idea. Unfortunately the candidate wasn't suited, but I learned a lot :unsmith:

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Chasiubao
Apr 2, 2010


They're counting on you being naive because you're starting out, where you'll take any job at any salary because, well, you're naive :)

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