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 So yes somewhere out there is a veggie and herb garden thread. Ive been following and posting in that a little bit, but I wanted to make a thread specifically about urban gardens. This can be rooftoop, balcony, alley, or anything that isn't on your cotton plantation, I suppose. I want to use this also as a blog about my beginnings as an urban gardener. I have a decent amount of roof space that I am going to use this season for growing. I actually got out on the roof in cold-rear end December to take measurements of the space, so I figured I might as well make it official by telling the goons! I've been to a salvage warehouse already looking for ideas, I think next on my list is going to be Home Despot (at the very least I need some mix for houseplants), and gently caress I might even do ikea today, why not. Right now my mind is a jumble of planter ideas (shoecaddies, storm gutters, self watering pickle buckets, passive hydroponics) and plants (herbs of course, berries if I can swing it, lettuces definitely and still undecided on tomatoes.. NO CORN). I'll even do up a model of the roof or something, and whittle my ideas down as time progresses. I have a few seed websites in mind, but again, all a big jumble.  Please share your ideas, thoughts, past successes, photos. December is perfect gardening weather! Plants So Far 4 lovely houseplants 12-28-10 Containers So Far 4 whatever terracottas (free) 2 self watering ikea "buckets" ($20) 2 1-gallon sized ikea plastic tubs ($3) 2 1-gallon plastic shallot jars (free) This is why I didn't become an architect: a 3d model of my rooftop 
Turkeybone fucked around with this message at 08:30 on Dec 29, 2010 |
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Dec 28, 2010 22:26
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Home depot report - gutters are like, 6 dollars for 10 feet. Maybe the end caps are $50 each but otherwise that would seem like a no brainer for space saving. PVC is pretty cheap but not as cheap as I had thought.. in theory I can use it to make hoops for shade-cloth, but with good planning I might not even need that. They have large pieces of lattice for like $4, which would do well for a trellis among other things, though I really do have my heart set on some super geeky cat5 trellis. Five gallon buckets there were $4 each. There's also lots of vinyl tubing if I want to get a little more fancy with watering systems. Ladders are surprisingly expensive.. for that price I might as well just build a more sturdy staircase. They have 32qt bags of potting soil ranging from $8-$10. IKEA report - lots of interesting stuff, I was impressed with myself I only took 2 hours to go in and out. They have rail systems and you can throw on these $1 plastic cup/pockets that would be perfect for herbs or small plants (much like the shoe thing). I guess I would have to drill into the brick to do this though. They also have self-watering pots! Again it's pretty easy to do myself, but I picked two up ($10) just to investigate and see how to do it better (Im thinking $4 bucket, $1 piece of pvc and honestly just drill a drain hole into the bucket, fill with perlite/vermiculite and call it a day on passive hydroponics. Or the same with soil and the bottom layer be p/v so I dont have to worry about nutrient water poo poo. I'll get to work on my floorplans.
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Dec 29, 2010 03:31
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Also unfortunately the first step will have to be cleanup -- the roof has been used in the past for various scenes of drunkenness as well as an old garden.. so there are broken bottles and smashed terracotta along with about 100# of soil and other poo poo.
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Dec 29, 2010 04:00
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Pushbroom that poo poo. I still have my rosemary, mint, eggplant plant, tomato plants and the mystery plant from that other thread. There's a cypress tree still, too. They'll be getting planted elsewhere when we go to leave.  I can't export. Until then, the 'upside down tomato planters' are awesome for like.. everything except extremely heavy squashes, melons and things that grow underground. Some people down the street from me did beans, eggplant, tomatos, peppers, blackberries, and strawberries. Almost everyone did peppers and tomatos after me and my next door neighbor hung our tomato plants up 
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Dec 29, 2010 04:44
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Thank you Turkeybone for an interesting thread! I keep meaning to grow my own hot peppers, but am cursed by a black thumb and lack of experience in apartment growing.
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Dec 29, 2010 06:12
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 Well -- this is about all I can do in December, planting wise. Some not so exciting house plants. I begin amassing my containers now, though.
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Dec 29, 2010 07:02
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I bought some kale seeds via the internet today.. figure I'd get something going. Also got a lead on some good cheap soil -- again one of my bosses has a rooftop garden at his other restaurant, and he found someone decent who had lots of composty dark soil and I asked how much and he said "oh he'll fill the back of my pickup for like $75". Which is waay better than $10 bags at home depot. Next major projects are definitely going to be cleaning the roof and getting materials to build a ramp from mini-roof to main roof.
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Dec 31, 2010 07:48
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Unless you really know what you are doing, making your own ladder is like making your own condoms. Also, before you clean the roof up look around for signs of rats. You are going to have to do a bit of bird-proofing but hopefully the rats haven't made it to your rof yet.
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Dec 31, 2010 17:00
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bunnielab posted:Unless you really know what you are doing, making your own ladder is like making your own condoms. Unless my reading comprehension has utterly failed, he didn't say he was going to build a ladder.
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Dec 31, 2010 17:08
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haha I live in a nice part of town there's no rats here. And yes I mean ramp. Like frames and a piece of plywood. poo poo I might scour craigslist for some pallets and do that.
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Dec 31, 2010 17:27
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You sound like you're already down the path of diy container options, but just to put this out there for anyone else: when I was city-gardening I found rubbermaid style containers of all sizes to be about 1/10th the cost of even the cheapest planters. Drill or hammer a bunch of holes around the lower perimeter, toss the lid underneath to function as the saucer would. I started picking up giant ones so I could grow things like cucumbers and carrots without spending $50/pot and ended up just loving them for many things. The ones made for under-bed storage are fabulous for lettuce and radishes, for example.
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Dec 31, 2010 20:13
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Turkeybone posted:haha I live in a nice part of town there's no rats here. That'll work for about a season. Real stairs will require some 2x8 or 2x12 and a little math for the stair jacks. So are there any good full-shade edible plants that grow well in containers? I live on the north side of a building.
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Dec 31, 2010 20:24
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Turkeybone posted:haha I live in a nice part of town there's no rats here. You should bribe bunnielab with dinner for him to help you make it.
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Jan 1, 2011 03:31
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Got up on the roof today and did some cleaning!   Next I'll have to get some bigass garbage bags and pack it all up.. and then the next major thing is still to devise safer and more efficient means of travel up and down the roof. Using my awesome math skills (and a random piece of plywood artwork) I guesstimated it's a 6' drop from main roof to second roof so.... hmm maybe I should just build some stairs. I also picked up a seedling tray and planted a few seeds just for poo poo's sake.
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Jan 1, 2011 23:37
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I'm jealous of your roof.
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Jan 2, 2011 11:09
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Dane posted:I'm jealous of your roof. Yeah the view is actually pretty decent.. except to the SE where its a big ugly apartment complex. But even that isn't so bad. Which brings me to my next point.. sun and rows and all that poo poo.  I am totally guesstimating here about what the sun will be like, but Ive been reading gardenWeb so this is what I got. The SW wall is about 12-15' high and will probably block most of the afternoon soon as the day goes on. The western corner has trees from the street getting up there as well, so that will be the most shaded spot. They go so far as to talk about orienting garden rows N-S with taller plants in the north for the most sun, but I don't know how important that really is. I mean honestly I'd like to hide the view of the ugly building with taller flowers or whatever but not to the detriment of growth. Also again by the sun I should organize rows diagonally across the roof (since the roof is rotated 45 degrees from cardinal north) but that also just seems stupid a little too over my head for my first go at this, heh. edit: Wind -- I guess I'll have to see how the wind is, too. This is on top of three stories. The SW wall is huge, the NW side has the tall thingee in the middle as well as some slight tree cover, there is the large ugly apt complex to the SE which is sort of a buffer I guess. Anyway Im not too concerned about it yet. Turkeybone fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Jan 2, 2011 |
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Jan 2, 2011 11:29
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Turkeybone posted:\ this is really awesome! maybe you've addressed it already, but how to you plan to get enough soil depth on your roof? custom huge deep boxes? giant planters? I have a tiny miniature version of your space on my condo balcony, and last year I think a ton of my stuff (tomato plants and poo poo) failed because I didn't have enough soil (used 8in depth planters, I'm an idiot)
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Jan 2, 2011 11:34
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Well I am definitely looking to avoid things that need lots of depth. Herbs, lettuces, radishes, greens. Baby carrots.. heh actually I had a dream and I thought of this pvc monstrosity, it would be like one central cylinder and little 3-5" capped pvc lengths spiraling around the cylinder (like a spiral staircase I guess) and a tonda di parigi growing in each one.. hmm I could probably build that easily so long as it wouldnt blow over. I have a virtually infinite supply of standard 1 gallon plastic jars (think mayo) which are about 10" tall. Bigger than that? Five gallon buckets are $4-$5 each. At first I was very not into tomatoes but my roomie demands I at least do some cherries.. so in that case I would do sungolds and/or eggyolks (as if you needed a tomato besides sungold). And as someone said above, there you get into k-mart walmart plastic storage containers. Most every forum and such Ive read says that terra cotta is good for cacti and thats about it. Oh and I really want to get some sort of dwarf citrus  edit: And purple millet, which is amazingly expensive (as far as seeds go, like 40c each).
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Jan 2, 2011 13:46
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What you want is a ship's ladder. They are a lot easier to build then a normal staircase and much safer then a normal stick ladder. I couldn't find a decent set of plans but I didnt really look that hard. Also, you live in a city, there are rats. Here is a good test, take a big bowl of dry cat food and set it on your roof near a wall. Stick a plastic milk crate over it and weight it down with a brick. If something chews it's way into the cat food, you have rats up there.
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Jan 2, 2011 20:00
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bunnielab posted:What you want is a ship's ladder. Something like this would be relatively easy to build. Basically you build a box out of a couple of beams and some 2x8s for joists on 19 1/8" centers(the diamond marks on your tape measure), then build a smaller box out of beams for the stair hole, and put in joist hangers on joists and A35s on the corners of the boxes for shear strength. Double up your joists at the stair hole for additional support for the beams. Then put the whole thing on 4x4 posts with more hardware for stability. Sheet the box with 3/4" subfloor(tongue and groove plywood or OSB) by gluing it with subfloor adhesive and nailing it with ring or screw-shank nails. Make sure it's square, first. Level in the bottoms of the posts and secure them to the rooftop with more hardware. Then to build your stairs you just build a big rectangle, nip off the bottom corners so that one end of the rectangle lays flat on the ground, nip off the top corners so the other end hangs off your stair hole. Inside of the rectangle you just level in stair treads at an 8" height interval. Screw 2x6 blocks underneath and nail your treads in level. Secure the bottom of the stairs with a block you've shot into the roof deck with nails or a ramset or bolts, or all 3. The hard part is just doing the math for the angles. Leveling in the stair treads is a little easier. It'll make a 24" wide staircase pretty easily.
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Jan 3, 2011 04:17
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Wow.. that is a very in depth and detailed explanation of how to do what I need... which is probably why it's going right over my head. But I do appreciate it! This apartment is a rental, so while I dont have plans on moving in the near future, ideally I would want to make something that's a little less permanent. I'm sure I will sacrifice stability for mobility, but I think it's a necessary tradeoff in my situation. Ugh stupid details.. can't I like, GROW poo poo ALREADY??? All I want to do is order every seed that sounds cool and.. you know, plant them and stuff. And then profit. Found even more awesome seed sites.. FEDCO and tradewinds.. even more esoteric subtropical fruit trees that have a low chance of survival.. but come on.. how many people grow guava and miracle fruit in Maryland?? The "purge" of the 50 or so seeds on my list draws ever closer. Sigh.. this week one of my friends who studies plant sciences @ Cornell is coming to visit. I'm going to pick her brain with regards to this garden. Also she's never been to IKEA so it's another excuse to go container hunting.
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Jan 3, 2011 09:04
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basil has germinated!!! successs
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Jan 4, 2011 19:22
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Turkeybone posted:basil has germinated!!! successs Give it 4 weeks and it'll be "aw poo poo, more basil has germinated!" That stuff is a pain in the rear end once it gets a good stable foothold and starts tossing seeds off left and right. I had mine in pots and somehow I have basil germinating through the grass in what amounts to dry playground sand (florida) about 20 feet away. e: On the flipside if you really really like pesto you're set. Kilersquirrel fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Jan 5, 2011 |
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Jan 5, 2011 18:53
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HoboCooking posted:Something like this would be relatively easy to build. Basically you build a box out of a couple of beams and some 2x8s for joists on 19 1/8" centers(the diamond marks on your tape measure), then build a smaller box out of beams for the stair hole, and put in joist hangers on joists and A35s on the corners of the boxes for shear strength. Double up your joists at the stair hole for additional support for the beams. Then put the whole thing on 4x4 posts with more hardware for stability. Sheet the box with 3/4" subfloor(tongue and groove plywood or OSB) by gluing it with subfloor adhesive and nailing it with ring or screw-shank nails. Make sure it's square, first. Is it a good idea to just screw and or shoot into the roofing? I would think you'd ruin the membrane and make a good place for water to seep through causing a leak. You'd probably be fine if you used some roof/tar caulk and put it around anywhere you penetrate the roofing though.
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Jan 5, 2011 23:51
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I like having mint for cocktails, but hate buying mint (since it gets all wilty so fast), so I think I'm gonna buy a big planter box and start a mint forest. I will be drowning in mint.
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Jan 6, 2011 07:40
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Kenning posted:I like having mint for cocktails, but hate buying mint (since it gets all wilty so fast), so I think I'm gonna buy a big planter box and start a mint forest. I will be drowning in mint. Mint will procreate the gently caress out of whatever you're keeping it in... Seriously - it's the devils weed! I plant mine in containers, so I can keep it somewhat in check. Also: Peppermint!!
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Jan 6, 2011 10:30
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Meltathon posted:Is it a good idea to just screw and or shoot into the roofing? I would think you'd ruin the membrane and make a good place for water to seep through causing a leak. You'd probably be fine if you used some roof/tar caulk and put it around anywhere you penetrate the roofing though. Good criticism. I forgot it was a roof. Edit: I'm excited to see what grows in OP's garden. I've always wanted to do something like this but I've never lived anywhere where there wasn't enough exposed dirt to grow in.
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Jan 7, 2011 05:53
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Kenning posted:I like having mint for cocktails, but hate buying mint (since it gets all wilty so fast), so I think I'm gonna buy a big planter box and start a mint forest. I will be drowning in mint. I didn't have a grass lawn in my backyard at my last place, I had a mintforest. Mowing the lawn smelled so good.
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Jan 7, 2011 21:32
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Ill be trying to set something up on my little balcony this spring as well. Im in western Germany, anyone know what grows well in a temperate climate similar to Seattle but slightly colder with more snow?
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Jan 7, 2011 23:21
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Iron Chef Ricola posted:I didn't have a grass lawn in my backyard at my last place, I had a mintforest. Mowing the lawn smelled so good. I see zero reason not to do this when I own a house. Who gives a gently caress about grass, just all mint all the time, and do your gardening in raised beds.
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Jan 8, 2011 07:18
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Tonight I planted nero di toscana and red chidori (both kales) and some sage. Also, the bulk of the seeds have been ordered.. god help me. 247 - Masai Bush Haricots Verts ( A=1/2oz) 1 x $1.40 = $1.40 262 - Golden Rocky Bush Wax Bean OG ( A=2oz) 1 x $1.90 = $1.90 883 - Sugar Ann Snap Pea OG ( A=2oz) 1 x $2.00 = $2.00 1409 - Raven Zucchini ( A=1/8oz) 1 x $1.80 = $1.80 1424 - Sebring Zucchini ( A=1/8oz) 1 x $1.50 = $1.50 2018 - Tonda di Parigi Carrot ( A=1/8oz) 1 x $1.20 = $1.20 2128 - 3 Root Grex Beet OG ( A=1/8oz) 1 x $1.50 = $1.50 2186 - Bulls Blood Beet ( A=1/8oz) 1 x $1.00 = $1.00 2248 - French Breakfast Radish ( A=1/8oz) 1 x $0.70 = $0.70 2257 - Zlata Radish ( A=1g) 1 x $1.00 = $1.00 2439 - Evergreen Hardy White Scallion ( A=1/16oz) 1 x $1.20 = $1.20 2767 - Les Oreilles du Diable Lettuce OG (Devils Ears) ( A=1g) 1 x $1.20 = $1.20 2768 - Lingua di Canarino Lettuce OG (Canary Tongue) ( A=1g) 1 x $1.20 = $1.20 3008 - Hopi Red Dye Amaranth OG ( A=1/16oz) 1 x $1.10 = $1.10 3023 - Arugula OG ( A=1/16oz) 1 x $1.00 = $1.00 3036 - Bright Lights Chard ( A=1/16oz) 1 x $1.20 = $1.20 3056 - Wrinkled Crinkled Crumpled Cress OG ( A=1/16oz) 1 x $1.10 = $1.10 3102 - Verte de Cambrai Mâche ( A=1/16oz) 1 x $0.90 = $0.90 3222 - Tatsoi OG ( A=1/16oz) 1 x $1.30 = $1.30 3338 - Falstaff Brussels Sprouts ( A=2g) 1 x $1.10 = $1.10 3777 - Anaheim Hot Pepper ( A=0.5g) 1 x $0.80 = $0.80 3781 - Fish Hot Pepper OG ( A=0.2g) 1 x $1.30 = $1.30 4105 - WOW! Cherry Tomato OG ( B=0.4g) 1 x $3.00 = $3.00 4106 - Honeydrop Cherry Tomato ECO ( A=0.2g) 1 x $1.00 = $1.00 4118 - Egg Yolk Cherry Tomato ( A=0.2g) 1 x $1.10 = $1.10 4512 - Chives OG ( A=0.5g) 1 x $1.10 = $1.10 4517 - Caribe Cilantro OG ( A=1g) 1 x $1.00 = $1.00 5410 - Moulin Rouge Sunflower ( A=0.5g) 1 x $1.30 = $1.30 5416 - Schnittgold Sunflower ( A=1g) 1 x $1.00 = $1.00 5960 - Purple Majesty Millet ( B=0.2g) 1 x $7.00 = $7.00
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Jan 8, 2011 09:37
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Okay that was like 4 days for the kale to sprout.  Now I have like, 18 kales. gently caress.
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Jan 11, 2011 18:32
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 They are pretty fast growing.. either that or the basil has just completely stalled out.
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Jan 12, 2011 16:08
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Turkeybone, I'm jealous of your roof. I'm living in a small studio in downtown Columbus with limited window space, limited apartment space, no balconies, and no roof access, so I'm going the aeroponic route. I have an Aerogarden which I'm using for herbs, and I just bought two Prepara Power Plants. They seem to be designed to grow small herb and lettuce greens. Supposedly, you can use them to grow strawberries and cherry tomatoes, so that's what I'm using them for. Not sure how it's going to work out. Have any of you tried them? If it works out, I'm going to design my own version using small Rubbermaid totes. Right now, I'm using the spillover light from my Aerogarden because of space and outlet concerns. If the plants get leggy, I'll get a dedicated lamp for them. Pictures:  Click here for the full 640x480 image.  Click here for the full 640x480 image. My babies! The tomatoes are starting to spout. Nothing from the strawberries yet. 
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Jan 15, 2011 17:50
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Also, if you don't know about "You Bet Your Garden", it is a fantastic resource with tons of tips. http://www.whyy.org/91FM/ybyg/index.html I reference it all the time.
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Jan 16, 2011 00:20
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The sage has now also sprouted.
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Jan 21, 2011 07:27
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I'm glad this thread is here and I hope it winds up with lots of good info. I am going to be trying my hand at a vegetable/herb garden for the first time. We have a large yard but I am going to do containers for my first attempt. Does anyone have any experience with moving containers around to catch enough sun? I want to do some fruiting veggies (tomatoes, bell peppers, etc.) and I am worried that there is not a spot that gets enough sun throughout the day (surrounding houses and trees cast big shadows). I was thinking of building a really basic platform on wheels would make the containers mobile. Does this seem unreasonable?
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Jan 21, 2011 15:38
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luloo123 posted:Supposedly, you can use them to grow strawberries and cherry tomatoes, so that's what I'm using them for. Not sure how it's going to work out. Have any of you tried them? I have not tried to grow a cherry tomato plant indoors, but want to try my Tumbling Tom cherry tomatoes that I got from tomato growers supply. I grew them outdoors, and they never got beyond a foot and a half tall before starting to branch out and tumble. So, they seem to be suited to grow under a light. However, they have a tendency to go everywhere, so I may have keep them pruned. (Pic while flowering) If yours work, I am curious to know the type you used. LeprechaunLass posted:Does anyone have any experience with moving containers around to catch enough sun? I grew peppers, eggplants, and tomatoes in containers, and I really couldn't imagine moving the tomatoes after a certain point. They were far too large. The peppers and eggplant, however, were still able to be moved with relative ease the entire time. Here is a picture of my tomatoes, which were started indoors, well before they started fuiting. As you can see, they are far too large to be moved around, and needed to be staked to the fence so they didn't blow over in the wind. Edit: For clarification, my cherry tomato, as mentioned above, could be grown in a container and moved for light. The other varieties you saw were Pink Oxheart (Kosovo), Beefsteak (Giant Belgian), Black (Paul Robeson), and Early Slicer (Fireworks). I don't recommend trying these if you do go ahead with the mobile tomato container. osukeith161 fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jan 21, 2011 |
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Jan 21, 2011 20:36
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osukeith161 posted:I grew peppers, eggplants, and tomatoes in containers, and I really couldn't imagine moving the tomatoes after a certain point. They were far too large. Well, that is exactly why I am thinking of building a flatbed cart of sorts, so I have the heavy containers already on wheels for easy movement.
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Jan 22, 2011 00:43
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By large, I didn't mean the weight was the problem, but the size of the tomato plant. In the containers and staked to the fence, those varieties grew 6 feet tall. Even modest gusts of wind would have toppled them over. (And it did, which is why I had to tether the container and cage to the fence) Then, later on, the branches needed staked/tied, and I can't see a reliable way to do that when you plan on moving it a lot. I just envision broken limbs. Is it possible? I am sure it is. I just think that if you don't pick smaller varieties made for containers, you may eventually need to permanently secure that container in one spot.
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Jan 22, 2011 17:16
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