Computer chairs: the backbone of a good sit up.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > Computer chairs: the backbone of a good sit up.

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Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Phiberoptik posted:

Does anyone have links to good sites discussing ideal computer ergonomics? I sit in a computer chair 12 hours a day working, and am starting to suffer from wrist/back strain. I want to start minimizing this as much as i can.

My company sometimes has professional ergonomists come in and present - here is the presentation the last one put on: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/51865677/Office%20Inactivity%20Sitting%20Disease_Copyright%20ErgoAdvocate%202012.pdf

It has some pretty basic tips about keyboard positioning and exercises to do periodically. But the most important thing is what Ninja Rope said - you need to move. An ideal situation is to set up a sit-stand workstation, either with a height adjustable desk (expensive) or with 2 desks - a sitting height and a standing height (less expensive). Switch between them whenever you begin to feel stiff - a wireless keyboard/mouse helps, and having dual monitors you can switch between (or a really nice monitor arm). A keyboard tray is helpful too.

At the very least get up and stretch as often as possible.

# ¿ May 21, 2012 00:49

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 11:24

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

So after a lot of waiting, I have gotten a full refund from NOL for the leap I ordered because they won't ship a replacement until FedEx compensates them for the broken chair.

I guess I will have to find the best chair I can for $380 or less at office depot.

That's pretty bullshit... And also pretty typical. This is the exact reason furniture dealers are so wary about selling to individual clients instead of bulk-selling to businesses.

I encourage you to shop around a bit more before resorting to Office Depot. You'll find nothing but crappy, cheap chairs that will hurt you in the long run. Again, look for furniture warehouses that sell to the public.

# ¿ May 31, 2012 17:37

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Phiberoptik posted:

Anyone try the Raynor Ergohuman? It looks great and is priced reasonably, but I can't try one locally. The leather one is less than a base steelcase leap for me, and I need leather cause I have a cat. Leather addon for the Leap is another $500.

Avoid. Ergohuman is a strictly budget import brand that decided to make a chair to compete with the LOOK of the modern post-Aeron generation of chairs. They're aimed squarely at people who don't know any better.

rawrr posted:

I'm actually quite disappointed by the standard steelcase leather. Either add another hundred on top for Elmosoft leather, or pay around $75 for Ultrafabric Brisa, which is a breathable faux leather that isn't slippery or sticky, and way more durable and easy to clean/maintain than leather.

I don't know if either options are available online, but they are available via authorized steelcase dealers.

Standard in-stock leathers are usually pretty crummy. If you want a good leather, be prepared to pay a LOT for it, and most likely you'll have to find the material yourself and custom-order the chair (not easy to do).

# ¿ Jun 8, 2012 02:55

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Generally fabrics are firmly glued onto the cushions of chairs - maybe that's not the case with the Leap, but I suspect it will be a lot harder than removing a few staples. I'll be interested to hear how it goes though.

If it is glued on, a possible solution might be to order a brand new seat cushion already upholstered - if you can find someone who will sell that to you. No idea if Steelcase even does custom orders like that.

Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Jun 8, 2012

# ¿ Jun 8, 2012 16:29

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Ergonomics are different for everyone - some people love their split keyboards and gel wrist pads. Me, I get horrible pain if I use a gel wrist pad and I need a tiny keyboard without a numpad so I can better line up the mouse/keyboard with the screen. Basically, find whatever is most comfortable for you and allows you access to everything you need on your desk with a minimal amount of movement.

If your company has an ergonomist on staff that does evaluations, take advantage of it, and apply the same principles at home. Even small companies can do this, a lot of ergonomic consultants will do one-offs as part of their business.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2012 16:39

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

Our on-staff ergonomist basically just wanders in, tries to bully you into getting a standing desk, and then leaves.

Well... You should listen. Sit-stand is the healthiest, most ergonomic way to work. If your company actually offers to pay for a good height adjustable table, you should jump at the chance.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2012 01:07

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

It's not height adjustable. They bring you a desk with long-rear end legs, one height fits all.

Ah. Hmm. That's not as good. Sit-stand is wonderful, but standing all day kinda sucks unless you're a fitness superstar.

Tell your ergo person you'll do it only if they get you a electric sit-stand desk. Maybe then he/she will leave you alone.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2012 16:44

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Ninja Rope posted:

Or a tall chair?

That could work too, but I suspect if the company is too cheap to spring for a height adjustable desk an ergonomic stool might be out of the question.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2012 17:10

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Aphal posted:

If all that is wrong with your current chair is the height adjustment being broken, have you looked into fixing that? Isn't it just a single part that needs replacing on most chairs?

Yeah, it's usually the cylinder. If you can find out what size your chair has, it's not TOO hard to get a replacement - it's a relatively universal part.

# ¿ Jun 14, 2012 06:31

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

johnnyXcrane posted:

There are different Leaps like Executive Premium etc.
The only one i can buy used is the Standard, heres a picture:

Are there any important differences between the Leaps or is it more about design?

Design. I'm pretty sure the "Executive" is just a Leap with leather and chrome.

quote:

And how important is a headrest for ergonomical sitting?

Generally it isn't, and relying on a headrest while working can injure you. Most ergonomists recommend against it unless you have a specific medical need for one.

quote:

And what do you guys think about the Herman Miller Embody?

It's the best ergonomic chair on the market - and also one of the most expensive.

Knyteguy posted:

So I just found a local dealer that will sell me new Herman Miller Embodys for $787.20 + tax, which if I'm not mistaken is a spectacular price. The only adjustment it doesn't have is the seat depth adjustment, which I'm actually getting a quote on now.

That's bizarre, I've never heard of an Embody without seat depth. From what I understand, it's something inherent to the design of the chair, it can't really be removed.

quote:

Of the two which would last longer? Better back support? Both were ridiculously comfortable compared to the temporary dining room chair I sit in now, so it was hard to gauge when both seem amazing.

Which would last longer is moot, both should have 10+ year warranties supported by the manufacturer if anything goes wrong.

Better back support is relative to each user, but both chairs are really adjustable. I'd lean more towards the Embody, as you're getting a way better deal on it than the Leap.

Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Jun 21, 2012

# ¿ Jun 21, 2012 01:58

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

rawrr posted:

That said, the Embody looks much much nicer, has a head rest standard,

I don't think there is a head rest available for the Embody, standard or not.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2012 02:15

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Humanscale actually mentions Madisonseating by name on their list of unauthorized dealers that they will not honor warranties for: http://www.humanscale.com/about/authorizedresellerpolicy.cfm

So how do they get their stock? I would guess a lot of it is used, picked up cheap in bulk from companies that have done bankrupt. And some of it is probably sold to them under the table by authorized dealers that have really good pricing from Steelcase/Herman Miller/Humanscale.

Buyer beware I guess. The furniture industry is a cutthroat business with literally no regulation.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2012 05:52

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Madisonseating lists the condition of all of their chairs as "open box" which means absolutely nothing at all, especially when most chairs sold weren't originally shipped in boxes. I interpret it to be an underhanded way of saying "used".

# ¿ Jun 21, 2012 16:42

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Trebek posted:

Any one of theses chairs will last you 10-15 years easy.

Well, that's dependent on how used they were and how easily you can get replacement parts. A new one will certainly last 10+ years, but even then a cylinder or something might fail.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2012 03:34

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

wdarkk posted:

The desk is a little harder. It's a little outside the scope of this thread but the desk thread seems to have been archived. I don't want to spend a thousand on an ergonomic desk in addition, so I'm looking at regular computer desks; in particular I'm looking at l-shaped desks since I have two big monitors and want some space in addition to that to write stuff. Something like this.

The problem is I want to have my keyboard and my trackball in the keyboard tray, and it seems like no desk has a keyboard tray that will have any room left over after adding a full-size keyboard.

Any desk should be fine, just make sure the height is right for you. If something is off you can correct it with a combination of a monitor stand, footrest, keyboard tray, etc. until you get it right.

As far as the keyboard tray, larger ones are available, but they are EXPENSIVE. I'd suggest a compact keyboard - this is the one I use: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001CJH6Y6/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00

If you really need the numpad, you can buy a separate USB one and put that on your desk.

Actually I'd recommend EVERYONE look into a compact keyboard, tray or no - it allows you to center the keyboard right until the monitor while still keeping the mouse nearby. Really cuts down on the amount of reaching you have to do. Again, if you REALLY need the numpad, buy a separate USB one and put it to the left of your keyboard. I never have a need for one myself.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2012 19:23

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Leoben posted:

I'm getting a new computer in the next two weeks and with it, new accessories depending on how everything I already have works out or not. So I'm visiting each appropriate thread for the different products.

I've always practiced good posture but I've never been too serious about investing in a quality chair. Now I'm going to be doing 10-20 hours of video editing/compositing per week at home. What do I really need to know when selecting something that's high quality? If anyone wants to make recommendations, I may be willing to spend upwards of $200.

I've posted it before, but make sure it has these adjustments:

Seat height adjustment
Seat depth adjustment (seat slider)
Back height adjustment (adjusts the position of the lumbar)
Back angle adjustment
Seat angle adjustment (independent of the back angle)

# ¿ Jul 14, 2012 22:06

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Ninja Rope posted:

I've always used text/reference books or reams of copier paper, but there are dedicated monitor stands if you want to be fancy.

Ergo at my company said you want to have the top of the screen about at eye level.

Usually I've heard ergo people say your eyes should be about 1/3 to 1/4 down from the top of the monitor. If you ask 20 ergo people something you'll get 20 different opinions though...

# ¿ Jul 22, 2012 06:49

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Gothmog1065 posted:

Okay, I must be looking in the wrong places or I just suck at Google/craigslist. Where can I find a good chair? I don't need the 1k herman millers etc, but I want something above the lovely staples/walmart chairs (Just had another $150 walmart chair break on me). I just can't seem to find any surplus stores or whatever.

The worst part is the company I work for has 100+ chairs sitting out in the open that they're not using because they upgraded our chairs last year. Yes, they've been sitting there for almost 8 months. They won't sell them either.

What state/city/country are you in? I find it hard to believe that you can't find a single surplus store if you're in America.

Cojawfee posted:

It might not be super cushy but it won't give you any back pain.

Not necessarily. There are much better ergonomic chairs than the Aeron, and there are plenty of ergonomic chairs that are nice and cushy.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2012 16:29

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Cojawfee posted:

The Amia doesn't look like it has seat depth options.

Steelcase's website says it does have adjustable seat depth.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2012 23:21

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

~Coxy posted:

For something like that I bet the investment in a motorised sit/stand desk would be much better than any one chair. Or both if you can afford it!

Yeah, this. Even the best ergonomic chair is bad for you if you spend all your time in it. Get up and move around a lot, even walking around and stretching a bit every hour or so helps. If you can get a sit/stand station, try to stand at least 1/3 of the time. And adjust your chair position often - as soon as it starts to hurt, change it so it doesn't.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2012 18:45

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

EvilMuppet posted:

What? He's about right, unless you have some sort of pre-existing back condition Aerons and the like are uncomfortable piles of over hyped junk. I wish I could swap my work one for another of the $200 no name specials I have at home.

They... Really aren't. The difference between sitting 8 hours a day in a cheap Office Max chair and a fully adjustable ergonomic chair is that the ergonomic chair won't loving INJURE you if used correctly.

It could be that the one at your work isn't the right fit for you personally and there's a better chair out there for you (that actually has ergonomic adjustments). Of course more money /= better, but a blanket statement about all ergonomic chairs like you made is totally untrue.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2012 15:22

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Splizwarf posted:

This is pretty nebulous territory as well.

The ways I've seen people sit in their chairs because they simply don't know how to adjust them... It would make you cry. That and people sitting in chairs not the right size for them, at all.

# ¿ Sep 6, 2012 06:24

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

The embody is a very nice chair but it's really not a $1100 nice chair. And it's not a one-size fits all chair either sadly. It sounds to me like it's not the right size for you.

Unfortunately it's really, really hard to find somewhere to try out ergonomic chairs of all different brands and sizes. There is a chair out there for each person, but unless you work for an awesome company that will bring in a good ergonomist and then spring for the chair, you probably won't find it. It is a pretty frustrating industry.

Splizwarf posted:

I'm 6'7" and have to sit in a non-adjustable Herman Miller Reaction (size B) with a missing arm for 9.5 hours a day, so

gently caress, that is dire.

PS: My company has run into the same problem a few times recently that you mentioned earlier in the thread - our chair for extremely tall people only has a 300 lb weight rating. I've been trying to get them to consider making a version that holds 350 lbs, but it's not really cost effective for them to develop it. :/

We do have 350 and 400 lb chairs, but they don't have the seat depth or height for people with extra long legs.

Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Sep 7, 2012

# ¿ Sep 7, 2012 04:50

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Cojawfee posted:

I think the problem is the companies make chairs to be comfortable to sit in, but the only way to make money is to sell in bulk to companies. The companies don't really care about what the char is as long as it looks professional, so they buy poo poo tons of them. It's not very cost effective to sell chairs to individuals so the only way to get access to them is to have tried several (which I've had the chance to, fitting up new buildings at work), or hope some liquidator has a decent selection. So you end up with consumers who have no idea there is an entire industry for making chairs that won't hurt them because there's no easy way for them to acquire said chairs.

Very true, you hit the nail on the head. My company didn't even have a way to deal with customers who walk in off the street until one of our employees spun off and became a dealer specializing in that (we don't sell factory direct).

I do individual chair fittings all the time, but not for the income we get from that chair sale. Its because its a great service to that company, who will then remember us when the next huge project to fill up a building comes along.

Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Sep 7, 2012

# ¿ Sep 7, 2012 05:02

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Parts for chairs are even harder to find than chairs themselves. I can order them from our factory for warranty issues and such, but I don't really know any other avenues to get specialty cylinders and chair bases.

I think you should find the ideal height and then build your custom car seat chair to exactly that height without worrying about chair cylinders or bases. I personally think car seats are generally even worse ergonomically than most office chairs, but if you can find something that makes you comfortable, do it.

And yeah, post the results.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2012 16:31

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

It's sad that Relax the Back is one of the only consumer avenues to ergonomic seating, as (in my opinion) their chairs are either horrible crap or obscenely overpriced with nothing in between.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2012 18:41

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

If you're willing to spend $276, here: http://www.ergocomfortwest.com/Office-Master/BC-Collection/Office-Master-BC98-p144.html

# ¿ Sep 11, 2012 18:55

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Splizwarf posted:

That's not a closed-arm chair.

It's a fixed loop. Functionally they're the same. If that's not what he wants then I guess he can keep looking.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2012 19:33

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Fatal posted:

No idea specifically but too large can be just as bad as too small. If the seat is too large it will cut off circulation to your lower leg or force you to not support your back.

To expand on that, you should be able to fit 2 finger widths between the seat and the back of your legs. If you can't do that, the seat is too long - if it's wider, the seat is too small.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2012 20:20

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Jimlad posted:

My strategy in the past has been to use a flexible carpet mat (with the spikes) and over the top of that, put a more rigid hard floor mat. This way you get really good durability and a much flatter surface to roll on, and it all stays in place really well.

Careful, the ones with the spikes absolutely destroy carpets. The spikes eventually wear down and break off, embedding themselves in the carpet and tearing it up.

I would get a square of rigid commercial-grade carpet and use it as your roller mat. You should be able to get some at home depot.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2012 16:47

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

deichkind42 posted:

So, could anyone who has a bit of knowledge about healthy chairs tell me if i should just suck it up for a while until it improves or if i'm simply not compatible with this chair? (As i said, it's really nice when sitting upright, but being able to recline for a while in the evenings is important to me too)

NO. A chair is not something you "break in". If it is causing you pain, continuing to sit in it will cause you more pain, until it gets to the point where that pain becomes a permanent condition.

The only time you should stick with a chair you aren't sure about is if it has a lot of adjustments. You just may not have figured out the ideal adjustment position for you. But I can see that the lumbar is not adjustable in that chair.

I suggest you look for a chair with 2 important adjustments: 1. back height or lumbar height, and 2. lumbar strength adjustment. These together will allow you to adjust the lumbar position up/down and in/out until you find the right position.

I'd recommend some chairs from my company, but we sell in the USA only at the moment, sadly...

# ¿ Nov 3, 2012 15:21

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Lbeuol posted:

I have pretty bad back problems and have been on the lookout for an Aeron/Mirra/Leap but I haven't found a single one in my area on craigslist/etc in decent shape with its warranty, all of them have also been $400+.

That's pretty normal. You're better off saving the money you'd be spending on a conga line of Office Depot chairs and putting it towards that. In the meantime, take breaks often when you've been sitting for long periods, and try to do some standing working if you're able to.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2013 22:13

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

johnnyXcrane posted:

My desk got a height of like 29.5 inches. So i need to sit pretty high on the chair to reach the mouse/keyboard.

Get a footrest. That should allow you to sit at the correct height for your desk but keep the front edge of your chair from cutting off circulation. A cheap one is fine, just as long as you can adjust the angle.

Height adjustable desks and keyboard trays are also an option but footrests are way cheaper and easier.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2013 21:10

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

RightClickSaveAs posted:

Haha that's hilarious, it's basically equivalent to:

Madden Football 2010
List price: ~~$ 59.99~~
Your price: $1.99
You save $58.00!

NO ONE pays list price for a chair. Even when it's brand new.

# ¿ Feb 11, 2013 21:41

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

LeftistMuslimObama posted:

Since I'm going to buy a chair brand new, and money is no object because I will save for as long as I need to, what are the three best chairs I can try out? I'll try the B and C Aerons for sure. Should I give a new Leap in a large size a try, or will I just kill the back again? I hear good things about the Embody too. Is it worth a test sit?

Again, as someone working in the ergonomic furniture industry, it's really frustrating to see that there's basically no resources for people to try out ergonomic chairs, especially when you're outside of the average size range. My company in the SF bay area is a freaking anomaly. The dealers don't even want to talk to individual clients because they're basically losing money serving you.

# ¿ Feb 21, 2013 20:51

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

DreadCthulhu posted:

Embody vs Mirra, what's people's take? Is the embody worth the extra $$$?

Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: It really depends on how well each one fits you and you should try both out and compare if you have the chance. But in general, the Embody is probably the best-designed ergonomic chair on the planet at the moment. It's still more expensive than it really has to be, but Herman-Miller charges that because they can. The Mirra is more or less a modern update on the Aeron, and while it's good, the Embody is in a whole nother class. Both are DEFINITELY better than the Aeron.

Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Feb 28, 2013

# ¿ Feb 28, 2013 23:47

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

DreadCthulhu posted:

Great, thanks for explaining. As a newb, how do I tell that the Embody fits me better than the Mirra? It'd be easy to say after a few months of use, but I'll probably have 10 mins top at the store..

That's a really nebulous thing. You can't really tell if an ergonomic chair fits you unless you correctly adjust it for your body. If you just plop down in the chair without doing that, it might have already been adjusted for someone else with a wildly different body type. See if you can learn the adjustments while you're there and fit it to you.

That said, if you're within the average range of body sizes and don't have any extreme medical conditions, you should be fine in either. The Embody especially has a wide range of adjustments you can tailor just to you.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2013 00:49

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

DreadCthulhu posted:

Random question: if sitting for some time on a cheap office chair leads to soreness in my quads and glutes, is that the chair itself or poor sitting habits? I'm wondering if getting a fancier chair will make any difference as far as this is concerned, since my posture is already pretty good on average.

Good chance it's the chair if it's a cheap one. Even on a good chair, you should be getting up and stretching every few minutes, and possibly even working standing up part of the day.

Exercise and stretch the muscles that are sore, and if you're worried your legs might start being more injured than just sore, stop using the chair right away.

ALSO! I made a video for my company's clients and dealers that may help you guys out. It's a chair adjustment video - the chair is one of ours, but it is fairly representative of the basic adjustments of many ergonomic chairs. And there's a small amount of general ergonomic advice in there too. Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ejLFaitbj0

That's my voice, and my arm in the blue shirt. :P

Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Mar 1, 2013

# ¿ Mar 1, 2013 21:47

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Jedit posted:

It must already be at least second hand or they'd just get HM to replace the seat cover on the warranty. I think someone's trying to scam $200 on a junker before they give up and pitch it.

I can't speak for HM specifically, but generally seat fabric is not covered at all under warranty, whether its second hand or not. The usual deal is that it's covered for 2 years and only for manufacturer defects, not user-inflicted tears. Same with arm pads.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2013 22:30

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 11:24

Rotten Red Rod: Mar 5, 2002

Saxophone posted:

What should I look for then? Any easy signs of knock-offs, damage, etc.?

Look to see if there's a tag on the bottom of the chair that gives the sold-on date. If they're 10+ years old, pass on them. Chairs start breaking down around that time.

Other than that there's really no obvious signs. Just keep in mind by buying a chair used you're passing on having a warranty.

That said, in my opinion, the Aeron is a really outdated chair ergonomically. I can't really recommend it, especially used.

Rotten Red Rod fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Apr 1, 2013

# ¿ Apr 1, 2013 21:23

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > Computer chairs: the backbone of a good sit up.

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