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Renaissance Spam posted:Quick rule question though, while I understand the concept of High ground from a tactical mindset, wouldn't having a multi-story mech standing on a hill make it a better target, ergo incredibly incredibly vulnerable? The reason I ask is in theory I support Zaodai's suggestion that D move to 808 as opposed to next to the Spider but it doesn't seem like a huge improvement to the situation. Some clarification would be appreciated. My logic for suggesting 0808 was that 1) It gives you a clearer shot at whoever ends up standing on the hill at 1009 trying to take potshots at B & C, and 2) it puts you slightly further "out" to make it harder for their light mechs to split up and do an end around on all of you. 0807 would be a more defensive position and provide most of the same benefits, but not as advantageous a shooting position for the upcoming turn. Also, whoever suggested that K2 and K1 have to worry about our Griffin in support: They don't really. Our Griffin is dueling their Dragon, which presumably means it can't fire on any of the other enemy mechs without voiding the duel (possibly) or allowing the enemy mech to enter the duel as well (if it's Clan rules).
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Jan 26, 2011 16:46
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KnoxZone posted:Which Jenner? Bruce Jenner. The Combine's decathlon team is going to whoop up on him now that he's roughly 1200 years old.
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Jan 26, 2011 17:23
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Arglebargle III posted:Yet more BattleTech magic technology. I'm fairly sure there is no way, even theoretically, to make something so small so resistant to damage. Maybe the clans nipped over to the Star Trek universe and bought some shields. If we're talking about what I think we're talking about, they work more on Space Marine technology than Star Trek. Which is basically willing away the damage by being badass rather than technomagic. Or perhaps little kid cowboys and indians logic. "I shot you!" "Nuh-uh! I was behind an invisible rock!"
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Jan 26, 2011 23:09
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PoptartsNinja posted:The clans can deploy 'Mechs from orbit without ever landing a dropship via armored drop-pods. Everyone else has to either jump out of a dropship while it's in the atmosphere, or land the dropship (if their 'Mechs lack jump jets). Hell, in the books they'll sometimes do hot drops for no real reason. I seem to recall Victor jumping his Dire Wolf out to "provide cover" for the landing. Which was kind of stupid since they had aerospace assets, and lighter mechs might have been better than having the commander in his 100 ton, nigh-irreplaceable Clan Assault mech jumping out. More Star Trek logic, I guess. "Cram as many officers as you can onto the Away Team for the highly dangerous mission." Though as for shooting dropships down, it really depends on where and when the combat is taking place. The Lyrans in particular love blowing up dropships on the way down. Using microwave power stations to try it if they've got nothing else.
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Jan 27, 2011 23:26
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Arquinsiel posted:You know what's really, really, *really* funny? Once the dropship is on the ground, sure. But at that point, it's unloading mechs/tanks/etc, and it makes it a somewhat less valuable target given that you're not taking out a ton of mechs with it instantly like you would on the way down.
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Jan 27, 2011 23:32
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Arquinsiel posted:True, but they're still viable targets. Also fun is the use of Aerospace with TAG and remembering that a homing Arrow IV takes up a bomb slot. Oh, I know. It was just that we were discussing destroying dropships as one of the motivations behind someone doing a hot drop, rather than "you can't blow up dropships, they're unkillable!". [EDIT] And you have Northwind Highlanders mechs because you like to get drunk and feud with Space Englishmen. Or overwhelming your enemies comms with bagpipe music.
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Jan 27, 2011 23:51
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Arquinsiel posted:"Violence Solves Everything" If it doesn't, you aren't using enough of it.
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Jan 28, 2011 19:10
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WarLocke posted:Wasn't Arthur the cousin who blew up a bunch of people accidentally while riding a JagerMech, so Victor kind of forces him to go do monkish things or whatever, and then the wobblies (supposedly) assassinate him but the end of that book implies he survives (I seem to remember him waking in a dark room, an unnamed person talking to him for about 3 paragraphs, then the book ends)? Assuming I'm not getting my characters mixed up, did they ever go anywhere with that? Wasn't Arthur the one that Katherine had them drop a building on in the middle of a speech to make a martyr out of him?
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Jan 28, 2011 23:04
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Nice shooting exposing the right leg on that Dragon. If you guys break the duel with the Dragon now, you're double pussies.  Also, one of our other mechs should definitely challenge the Hussar to a duel. Maybe PTN will give you a bonus on determining if he accepts or not if you make your orders with a suitably smack-talkish challenge. =P If nothing else, if he refuses he still looks like a coward in front of his (currently) living lancemates and it will demoralize the rest of the company (which we will probably be facing in future missions) to know they got their poo poo doubly wrecked by the Hounds.
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Jan 29, 2011 04:30
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ShadowDragon8685 posted:Ooooh, that explains why I never saw it. The main reason I didn't go Steiner? They love their loving escort missions. No, I don't want to guard 4 little slow moving trucks as they drive through multiple ambushes. That sounds like a pretty lovely job.
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Jan 29, 2011 04:43
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Agent Interrobang posted:Yeah, the 6th Lyran Guards are awesome. They're based off of Hesperus II, which means gently caress YEAH DEFIANCE INDUSTRIES, and they're noted for being a fairly rough-and-tumble bunch. The 6th Lyran Guard: Rape, Murder, Arson, and Rape.
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Jan 29, 2011 05:47
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Veyrall posted:I have no earthly clue how both of those things can be combined at all? Isn't being a decent shot a pretty huge part of being a mechwarrior? I'm terrifically confused. Agent Interrobang posted:The Capellans.
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Jan 29, 2011 05:57
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Veyrall posted:So, as someone who's only ever played the XBox games, I've got to ask. Is saturation of fire mechanically superior over a few aimed shots? Because the pilots in the LP seem to miss more often than not and they're actually trying to aim. Quantity is a quality all it's own. But yeah, our current pilots are fairly green and their mechs aren't particularly powerful to start with, so they're not exactly the best example of "quality". Also, heat is a factor. Fewer, more accurate shots will generally be better than a shitload of haphazard shots in the long run. (MRM 40s disagree, but they can go to hell.) [EDIT] Longinus00 posted:I'm pretty sure the descriptions are mostly from battletech fluff. There doesn't really exist an "aimed shot" like mechanic in the normal rules. The closest thing to it is choosing to withhold shooting in a turn to conserve ammo/heat as opposed to firing at every opportunity. There aren't Aimed Shot mechanic, but there are gunnery scores. If you can hit what you're aiming at at longer ranges or with fewer shots, you're not going to need to result to throwing everything you have into every volley. Zaodai fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Jan 29, 2011 |
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Jan 29, 2011 06:11
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Mukaikubo posted:Rocket Launchers disagree too Rocket Launchers are a weapon for uncouth impoverished folk, and have no bearing on a discussion of what real Mechwarriors would do. Seriously though, MRM 40s. What the gently caress. I don't think I ever ran into them in the tabletop game, but in mercs they were pretty... unique. They didn't do great damage, and they didn't hold much ammo. They didn't have the quasi-homing of LRMs, and they weighed a lot. I imagine they might be more effective with tabletop rules, where the solution to all problems isn't "Gauss Rifle, apply directly to the forehead.", but they still seem like they're at a bad point of weigh vs damage output and ammo.
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Jan 29, 2011 06:24
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Der Waffle Mous posted:Up to 40 damage on the cluster hits table isn't nothing to scoff at. Why wouldn't you just take a pair of LRM20 launchers though? Or hell, a pair of LRM15 launchers and some extra ammo for less space, same weight, and better accuracy. Though I imagine they're monstrous in crit seeking.
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Jan 29, 2011 06:29
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I guess I just always valued accuracy and fight duration over being able to get into brawling range. If I wanted that, I'd just pack ACs and lasers and rip someone's face off. I also think my memory is mixing in values from the video games on me which throws off the balance a lot.
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Jan 29, 2011 06:36
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Axe-man posted:are you ever going to go into the mechs that GUARD defiance industries and simular mech works... you'd think an atlas or something for sure That certainly makes sense if you figure out the kind of attacks they'd be directly responsible for stopping. Riots, sabotage, small commando raids. The planetary guard would be there for full on war attacks.
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Jan 29, 2011 07:16
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Axe-man posted:I work for AT&T tech support and I assure you that would drive anyone to murderous rage if not government toppling insanity. AT&T isn't responsible for a lot of things, and that's why they piss off a lot of sane, intelligent people too. I've had to do over the phone tech support myself, and yeah, there are a lot of idiots out there. But it still pisses me off when I have to call tech support, in general (usually because a warranty requires you to have tech support submit a ticket before you can get them to fix something, even if you know what's wrong already) they're very dismissive of you and treat you like an idiot. The worst was when I was dealing with Dell tech support when I worked at a computer repair shop. They required you to submit a ticket with tech support before they'd send a part out under warranty, even if you were a Dell certified repair center. So every time someone brought us something under warranty, we had to argue with an indian guy whose technical knowledge consisted of flipping through a binder they gave him and asking stupid, unrelated questions.
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Jan 29, 2011 23:44
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The Jade Phoenix trilogy is also available in Omnibus form, though I don't recall whether it was worth reading or not. I just see it sticking out from my bookshelf. It's a shame I can't remember which of the ones I liked and which I didn't, because they just all kind of run together in my head. I've got the whole stack sitting on the bookshelf above my computer, so if I could remember any of them specifically, it'd be easy to make recommendations.
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Jan 30, 2011 01:40
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Hey, what was the one that took place on Solaris? That was a pretty good one, though it didn't particularly expand the universe. There was Davion vs Steiner vs Clans dynamic in some of the stable fights, and the stuff that happens at the end of the book, but it's not like there is anything that spans a bunch of worlds. Just good old fashioned giant robot fights for profit. Regarding DI's post: Terra has a lot of practical purpose, but it's not particularly easy to capture for a lot of the reasons you mentioned, and it would be hard to take all that stuff in tact if you're fighting a war over it. Plus, Terra is just one planet, it's just that the Sol system happens to have all that stuff within it's confines. The shipyards you can probably combine into Terra proper, but Mars, Titan and the rest are not "Terra". Strictly speaking.
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Jan 30, 2011 01:57
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WarLocke posted:That was Assumption of Risk if I'm remembering correctly. It's a Kai-centric book, takes place in 3054 or something, Kai goes back to Solaris to defend his father's place as champion or something along those lines while also doing cloak and dagger junk for Victor (IIRC) although the specifics elude me. Nah, not that one. There's one that just follows some nobody in (I believe) Blackstar Stables. And then poo poo got real. [EDIT] Found it by looking up Blackstar Stables on the wiki. The book is Illusions of Victory.
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Jan 30, 2011 02:31
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WarLocke posted:I was playing MW4Mercs earlier, and I'm horrible about downgrading engines as far as they'll go. Hellspawn w/64mph top speed, an ER large laser and as many LRMs as I can stuff in it? Hells yeah. Speed plays far less of a role (... for the most part) in favor of decent armor and superior firepower. At least until "OH GOD IT WAS ALL A DIVERSION, THE ESCORT OBJECTIVE IS BEING ATTACKED ON THE ENTIRE OPPOSITE END OF THE MAP, GET YOUR ASSAULT MECHS THERE AS FAST AS POSSILBE!" Which in particular gets to be an issue if you intentionally walk into a certain ambush early on so you get an assault mech way before you're supposed to. Free Mauler please!
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Jan 30, 2011 04:19
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Well the main issue is that the Periphery is a huge amount of space that doesn't allow easy travel between most of it's zones. You can't unify it, per se, because someone is going to think the people on the opposite side of the galaxy is getting a better deal and then you get civil war, etc. Plus, it's hard to concentrate your forces to attack such a large, spread out area.
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Jan 30, 2011 05:08
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Veyrall posted:and 8 of them are reserved for sleep Maybe if you weren't such a pansy you could get by on 18 hours of sleep a week like a normal person.
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Jan 30, 2011 10:58
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Regarding the odds MW5 will stay "lowtech": I'd say it's basically nil. I think the best you can hope for is that you get a campaign (or a subset of a campaign) done as a flashback in true 3025 style. Or perhaps that you get a game mode devoted to it that enforces 3025 rules. There just isn't any real way they're going to the more "realistic" (for lack of a better term) ruleset when people are used to strapping 8 perfectly accurate, non-mech-exploding ER Large Lasers onto their mech and alpha striking everything. Though I myself wouldn't mind seeing a true 3025 style game, it just wouldn't feel very "mechwarrior-y". Weapon inaccuracy being the biggest part of that.
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Jan 30, 2011 23:03
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What made you think this would stand up to sustained weapons fire, Mukaikubo? =P
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Jan 31, 2011 04:52
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They all attended the Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy. Also, regarding the Black Knight thing, didn't it get retconned that the "real" story was that Ian did precisely what you said, and that anything known to the contrary was a Steiner propaganda campaign?
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Jan 31, 2011 05:09
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Arquinsiel posted:Game events etc are non-canon unless specifically mentioned in a sourcebook. Yes, and that's all fascinating, except we were talking about the game continuity itself. Also, I'm pretty sure a lot of the novels are canon despite not being codified explicitly in the tabletop game rules. [EDIT] Yes, he did. That may also have been where they retconned his betrayal into having been a smear campaign by the Steiners so that the common people would overthrow him. VVVVV
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Jan 31, 2011 05:22
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KnoxZone posted:Tis not luck that guides my missiles. Then it must be faith in the Emperor! Because we know you don't have a targeting computer tucked away in there. Clearly you're a Space Marine that snuck into the Inner Sphere after murdering that planet full of birdmen (which is tucked away in the Warp, making it a gateway between the universes).
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Jan 31, 2011 06:25
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Wow, they got some pretty good shots in on our Vulcan. Especially their Hussar hitting it's DC 11 shot. Also, Cthulhu Dreams, you might want to watch your heat. Jesus... [EDIT] The Dragon lost a Hip Actuator, and has one leg exposed on the edge of a river. Is it functionally immobilized?
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Jan 31, 2011 06:57
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A solid ton of machine gun ammo going off inside a mech should still cause some damage. Gunpowder is not an explosive (which is true), but enough of it in a highly confined area (say a constricted ammo bin!) will need some place to expand. And having a giant fireball + some scattering bullets bouncing around against the internals of the mech probably aren't good for it. If you superheated a metal can of machine gun ammo inside a SWAT van, would the ensuing damage from the ammo cooking off destroy the van? Probably not. If the van was full of valuable electronic equipment, would it wreck the poo poo out of it? You bet your rear end. All those rounds are still going to be hitting metallic surfaces and bouncing around, which greatly inrceases the chances they'll hit something important. (Mechanically though, yeah, it's just the fact that the ammo rules don't scale well on the low end.)
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Jan 31, 2011 08:31
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Tanith posted:Your ammo is presumably amply protected by several tons of armor, but this is a universe where lasers and missiles and bigger guns are making holes in everything. Yeah, and those same weapon hits are what is heating up the ammo enough to all go off at once. I'm drawing most of my assumptions from what my brother has told me. As a former volunteer firefighter in redneck country, he's been around enough fires containing large quantities of ammo to know how it works. At least I assume so. Of course, we don't actually know that they're using standard, 20-21st century gunpowder in those rounds either.
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Jan 31, 2011 09:09
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Artificer posted:Oh that makes sense. I think I mixed up this with the Mechwarrior games, because I recall trying to machine gun boat there, and it......didn't work very well. Yeah, MGs in the Mechwarrior games are functionally worthless. I'm not sure they even actually do damage? In any event, critical hits don't exist in the more recent ones, so they aren't even good for crit seeking, you never really face infantry and a single large laser is sufficient to one shot any tank or aerospace fighter you run across at a significantly longer range while not being useless against mechs.
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Jan 31, 2011 09:44
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Saros posted:If you fill a Daishi up with clan MG racks in MW4 you will no longer doubt whether or not they do damage. They'd still be poo poo. You could replace them with gauss rifles or LBX ACs, or just run 8 ER Large and some miscellaneous crap, etc. I was being facetious when I doubted their ability to do damage. They wouldn't be in the game if they did zero damage. But I'm sure it's a fraction of a point per shot, which makes them pretty bad compared to any other weapon. Even small pulse lasers (which are also pretty crap).
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Jan 31, 2011 11:39
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Hob_Gadling posted:Did you ever try them in MW1 or MW2? In MW1 you could fire them as quickly as you could hit the trigger: combined with easy-to-hit heads they were real doomsday weapons. MW2 did the same, but since you could now design your mechs to have 10 of them (or whatever the maximum amount of weapons was) they were instant death at ranges of 90 meters or less. Fortunately you couldn't use a design like this in multiplayer: firing the guns would crash the connection. My memories of MW2 are vague at best. All I really remember is the game being fun and that it wore out my original Sidewinder joystick from me playing the game so much. MW1 I only played on the SNES, and it was so bad it makes me want to cry.  The only good thing that came out of it was that it gave me a weird view of the newcaster Wolf Blitzer, given that he was one of the bosses in MW1.
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Jan 31, 2011 11:55
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Arglebargle III posted:The terrible truth is just that I have a degree in political science and can't shut up about this kind of thing. This explains everything (regarding my previous objection to your posting style). That list you posted PTN makes me wonder what they used as a dividing line between 0 and 1. And yes, 0/0s are surprisingly common.
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Jan 31, 2011 23:42
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Gothsheep posted:Yeah, the Hussar did way more damage, but how was it able to do so much damage? Hitting on 11s with it's only dangerous weapon.
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Feb 2, 2011 00:45
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I'm voting for C because
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Feb 2, 2011 03:07
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KnoxZone posted:Also, I am curious, if we had selected the GDL what kind of scenario would we have gotten? Brutal rape, it would appear. Something akin to one of the old D&D arcade games where you get the choice to fight a Red Dragon that lives in a volcano. It asks you several times "Are you sure you want to do this? It's a pretty loving retarded plan." and then if you keep saying yes you fight the overpowered (but not invulnerable) dragon.
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Feb 2, 2011 03:10
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Volmarias posted:Doesn't the fluff with the clans specifically have (hetero) sexual encounters though? Yeeep. It discourages natural births but encourages sexxin' up the ladies. Plus the Clans have mixed units of male and female warriors, so it's not like they're in the Navy or something. Now, if you want something that'll make you reach for the brain bleach, think about the fact that the mystery unit we aren't talking about probably gets involved in that too.
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Feb 2, 2011 06:14
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