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The Merry Marauder posted:Well, the only thing stopping the Clans from dropping on Tharkad/Luthien/loving Sian for that matter and cutting the head off the feudal dragon is their self-imposed system of rules, so I find it difficult to impute any kind of underdog charisma to them. The Clans and Inner Sphere are both royally hosed up, just in different ways. I find the Clans more interesting than the Inner Sphere, and wish more had been done with the culture shock aspect of both sides being abruptly introduced to a completely, utterly different way of life and way of thinking. Everyone in this thread knows the Clan invasion in the canon timeline was a lost cause from the very beginning, and I'm hoping they'll be able to pull it off this time, or at least do more than "Whoops, IS caught on to how we roll, we'll go line up for the curb stomp now." Yes, the WW2 Pacific Theatre analogy is pretty accurate, and it's true that the war was lost the moment it began. Doesn't change the fact that I think a lot more thought went into the Clans and how they work than the Inner Sphere, and that they make for a more interesting group to read about and follow than the Inner Sphere circle jerk.
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Aug 13, 2011 00:42
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The Merry Marauder posted:Fair enough. I can't look past my initial "Space Mongols with goofy dueling code and totally nebulous economy/logistics" impression, but that's just my grognardian curmudgeonliness talking, etc etc I like the Clans. Presupposing a society that has giant battle robots and won't get rid of them because they're awesome, the Clans strike me as a pretty good way to keep said giant battle robots around and use them regularly with a minimum of disruption to civilian society. I find the economy and logistics of the Inner Sphere only marginally less nebulous, given how everything keeps getting retconned/handwaved/undergoing massive changes in improbably small time spans. My doomed wish for the BattleTech setting is rebooting it and trying to re-establish things from the ground up to be, if not rational and sensible, then at least consistent. Heck, include the LAMs if you want, but, say, make them a specialty of Clan Snow Raven. Or even go whole hog and include actual rules to differentiate different nations/merc bands/Clans. Say, minimum tonnage requirements for Steiners or giving Star Adders easier access to experimental technology/designs/custom configurations or Highlanders getting something to reflect their laser comms and jamming of radio communications with bagpipes. Comedy option: A major IS power, like House Marik, allies with the Clans. Yes, during the invasion.
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Aug 13, 2011 01:19
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landcollector posted:The better option would be House Steiner. Remember, Clan Steel Viper does have Caesar Steiner in their custody. Meh. House Marik needs to do *something* interesting. Why not ring up the Clans and go "Hey, I can generally keep *this* band of treacherous, scheming, short-sighted fuckups in line. You'll need someone like me if you really intend to make a new Star League..."
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Aug 13, 2011 01:25
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And someone wondered why I consider the Clans the underdogs in the whole invasion. Even in this timeline, the invasion is all but guaranteed to fall into the "glorious, but doomed" category. Still, here's hoping they can pull a rabbit out of the hat.
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Aug 13, 2011 15:02
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Another comedy option: so long as PTN is doing non-canon IIC mechs, how about a Crab IIC? Sarna says it's a Star League design - the classic Crab, that is.
Cythereal fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Aug 14, 2011 |
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Aug 14, 2011 00:23
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Boner Slam posted:3. Clan novels are really terrible. The protagonist is always the same character with a soft touch, not really comfortable with the total disregard for life that clanners should have, while the antagonist the "the typical clanner". To be fair, I think this is because most non-protagonist Clanners tend to be Smoke Jaguar-grade assholes and BattleTech seems to *try* to keep its protagonists relatable. And it might just depend on the Clan, with some like the Jade Falcons being bastards, others not so much. BattleTech isn't *quite* as based on black-and-very-dark-grey morality as, say, Warhammer 40k. Although as you pointed out and others have in the past, I think we have a distorted view of most factions, especially the Clans, because for most people non-military stuff in these settings (and non-political stuff for BattleTech, I guess) is irrelevant and boring.
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Aug 14, 2011 02:34
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Clantech salvage makes everyone but the Clans happy. So please don't do something silly like accepting their offer and claiming the ponymech and hunchie as salvage.
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Aug 14, 2011 13:20
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AtomikKrab posted:W.T. Fits, you are forgetting the political implications of letting them leave. If I were the Clans, looking at these two engagements, I think I would call ComStar pragmatic more than anything else, adhering to zell when practical but willing to break it when tactically opportune - say, when a Gaussback (a glass cannon mech) starts wrecking things, or when desperate, such as the dropship. More honorable than mere bandits, but don't turn your back on them.
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Aug 14, 2011 22:12
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LeschNyhan posted:Take the money and run. You're way behind enemy lines sitting on top of your strategic objective -- which you've been ordered to take and use, before being withdrawn. It is being offered to you by a Clanner who may not understand the strategic implications of this objective raid. The Clans culturally are inculcated to fight over most things as Trials of Possession, so a smash-and-grab for something of incalculable strategic value may not have occurred to them as the reason for this. They think they can come back with another force and take it later, which is fine, because ComStar doesn't care and has something else in mind. This. I do not think you want to push your luck - you have what you came for, and total victory is anything but certain if you push it.
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Aug 14, 2011 23:36
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Zaodai posted:Hegira is an actual word (albeit rarely used) that means to escape from a dangerous situation. Sorry, all I can think of when I hear that word is that Strahna Mechty is better known as Kharak and
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Aug 15, 2011 01:00
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PoptartsNinja posted:Needless to say, I have plans for (mostly) all contingencies. I'll probably be closing the vote here pretty soon-ish so I can tally votes and start writing. If there's anything I've learned in my time as a DnD DM, it's that keeping the players unable to tell the difference between genuine planned contingencies and winging it is actually pretty easy. So long as things stay awesome and/or interesting, which I have no doubt you'll keep up with ease, most folks won't think to question whether you actually thought ahead or are making it up as you all go along. Let's face it: this really is a BattleTech PbP game.
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Aug 19, 2011 02:27
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D, for the mystery box.
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Aug 21, 2011 12:33
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landcollector posted:Do not think so highly of yourself, bondsman. Not all who would ally with the Clans are bondsmen. If I must choose between fuckups who sound the death knell of millions for the sake of petty politics and pride and fuckups who sound their own death knells, individually or in small groups, for the sake of perceived honor, I will choose the latter.
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Aug 21, 2011 18:59
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Defiance Industries posted:Clanners are... probably even worse, based on the events of the Wars of Reaving. What Wars of Reaving? I could have sworn the setting entered stasis and was left to die in dignity around the time something called the Word of Blake started to be talked up...
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Aug 21, 2011 23:36
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T.G. Xarbala posted:Oh come now. Genocidal Homeworld Clans! The guys back in the Kerensky Cluster finally have something to do. And also the proud warrior race gets their shiny shoes scuffed, which is fine by me. I have Warhammer 40k for when I want neverending war and chaos and bastardry, thanks. I never found BattleTech interesting as a war-focused setting, and I think something along the lines of a Reformation in space or the French Revolution or the rise of nationalism or the rise of America/Germany/Italy from the scattered micro-states of the Periphery to pose a viable challenge to the Inner Sphere or something else along those lines would have been far more interesting than the silliness that actually happened in the timeline.
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Aug 21, 2011 23:55
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T.G. Xarbala posted:I actually agree with a bit of this sentiment, though not for reasons you might think. And namedropping 40K is a bit tasteless and not well-warranted. *shrug* I'm a fan of both settings (within reason for BattleTech), and it felt like a reasonable comparison. "T.G. Xarbala posted:*snip* I agree with some of your rationale, but not all. WH40k is, in my opinion, a reasonable use of a static setting because there is so much going on within it. It very effectively makes use of an entire galaxy by making it so big that lots and lots of stories, even apparently significant ones like the Sabbat Worlds Crusade of Gaunt's Ghosts and connected stories, are only a drop in the bucket. The setting as a whole doesn't need to move on because there's no need to. The setting's tagline is unending war, and the fanbase (including me) likes it as such. BattleTech is a different story. It's a much smaller setting: there are four big Inner Sphere powers, plus ComStar and the Clans. None have much depth. Individual planets and regiments within a power have a little variation, but not much. Most of the Clans aren't very distinct, either. They can all be represented using roughly the same rules, just using partially different units from each other. Okay, ComStar has LosTech. But other than that, they fight like any other Mech force would with any given force beyond having different objectives. BattleTech blew its chance to add depth to the setting by seriously distinguishing its factions, I think. What if Steiner, Marik, Liao, Kurita, and Davion lances had to act differently, be deployed differently, and have completely different mechs, weapons, and tactics with little to no overlap? What if a given Clan's force had to include at least one totem mech, determined by individual Clan or other restrictions/modifications? Digging into narrative rather than gameplay examples: what if a sourcebook on the Clans revealed that the Warrior caste may be the caste the Inner Sphere sees all the time and hogs all the glory, but back home actually has a minimal role and the Clan homeworlds are really run by other castes who shake their heads and sigh at the warriors? What if the Free Worlds League actually was democratic and Marik was just a figurehead or even uninvolved? What if the Rasalhague Republic or Ghost Bear Dominion stayed in power? Heck, what if the Clan Romanticists were instead right, and the Clans were in fact a better place to live on average than the Inner Sphere? But BattleTech sacrificed depth that way, and decided to go with a progressing timeline instead. Fair enough, but the problem is that the depth didn't stay. Everything eventually went back to the status quo, followed by the reset button of the Dark Ages. Then the Wars of Reaving pop up to explain why the Clans were completely ignored during all of this, instead of actually portraying what was happening on the Periphery, in Clan space, and everywhere else as the setting evolved. Again, not bad in and of itself, but in view of the setting's evolution it strikes me as shoehorning in "Oops, we completely forgot about these guys, so what can we come up with to retroactively explain why they weren't around..." Yes, 40k has some similar things, dropping a Hive-Fleet and a Space Marine chapter, among other things, on races/factions that the developers wanted to get rid of, but it comes across as far less "Uh, whoops" than the Wars of Reaving. Now to be fair, BattleTech is not as big a game as 40k and is not as broadly developed, nor is it like 40k didn't have its dork ages as well. But I do think BattleTech, although having some great ideas and concepts to play around with, used them poorly. Tl;dr: 
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Aug 22, 2011 01:18
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T.G. Xarbala posted:From the looks of it we're both approaching similar ends from different angles. I'm pretty sure everyone here looks at Battletech and thinks "what could have been." For me, there's also an element of coming into this with a degree in history and seeing "16th (or thereabout) century Europe with giant robots? Sign me up!", then learning more about the setting and facepalming. I'd have been down for the Clans turning into an analogue of the Crusades (mix and match which BattleTech group is which historical group at your discretion), seeing a ComStar version of the Reformation and attendant Protestant schism, the Cythereal fucked around with this message at 01:42 on Aug 22, 2011 |
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Aug 22, 2011 01:39
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Der Waffle Mous posted:
Did it? Eh. Oh well. Short version: start with the Star League as the Roman Empire and work everything out from there.
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Aug 22, 2011 01:49
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T.G. Xarbala posted:*people gently caress things up* Well... it's true to BattleTech's premise that people in charge do dumb things and everyone pays the price when they do, I suppose.
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Aug 22, 2011 02:51
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Zeroisanumber posted:I played BT for a while when I was younger, but after I quit I remember someone saying something about FASA releasing rules for super-heavy mechs. I think that they went up to 200 tons or some game-breakingly absurd number. There's always the infamous Ares, AKA that retarded tripod mech.
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Aug 22, 2011 21:01
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jng2058 posted:You know, looking at the Jihad stuff and especially the Dark Ages stuff, I can't help but wonder if it isn't time to do a Gundam style reboot on the Battletech universe. Keep the 'mechs and some of the basic structures and start over from scratch otherwise. Sounds like a good idea to me. Start over, actually give some depth and definition to everyone, including the FWL, probably keep the Clan invasion at some point later on, etc.
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Aug 22, 2011 23:24
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PoptartsNinja posted:Anyways, I have some bad news, thread. I was let go from my job today; quite unexpectedly. I'll spare you the details, but that does mean I need to devote a lot of energy to finding a new job. Don't worry about this thread. Focus on real life, and I wish you the best of luck.
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Aug 23, 2011 00:03
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Light Clan mechs, you say? Hmmm... oh God. There's an UrbanMech IIC.
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Aug 24, 2011 01:55
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PoptartsNinja posted:If there was, I assure you it would be packing a Gauss Rifle. Or perhaps a Gauss Mace... Joking aside, even with Sarna I can't tell what Clan lights are in production by this time. Only Clan lights I'm familiar with from the MechWarrior games are the Fire Moth, Kit Fox, and Jenner IIC.
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Aug 24, 2011 02:23
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Arquinsiel posted:Lights get used pretty regularly really. There are far more than you'd think, but few are particularly memorable. Fire Moths in MechWarrior 2. So. Much. Hate.
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Aug 24, 2011 02:42
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So what's the loadout on the Jackrabbit IIC?
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Aug 24, 2011 02:55
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As romanticized as the Clans can be, ninjas are romanticized far more often and to a far more extreme degree. Leave none alive, heirs of Kerensky.
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Aug 24, 2011 03:00
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Dolash posted:Any immediate tips about playing a Piranha? I've followed this thread closely, but I've still never actually played Battletech. You have twelve .50 cal machine guns mounted on a giant robot. Any questions?
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Aug 24, 2011 03:23
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Can't speak for the Jackrabbit, but assuming all Prime configs, here's the firepower loadouts for the canon mechs we've got: Kit Fox LB-X Autocannon/5 ER Large Laser Small Pulse Laser Streak SRM-4 Jenner IIC Streak SRM-4 2x SRM-6 Piranha 12x Machine Gun 2x ER Medium Laser ER Small Laser
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Aug 24, 2011 03:32
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Mystery box detected: a strange magnetic anomaly. A lance-equivalent of Demolishers would not surprise me.
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Aug 24, 2011 04:36
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PoptartsNinja posted:I probably won't ever field one, to be honest. It's kinda a "here there be monsters" design, and intentionally so. Might just be me, but when I think of really nasty Clan heavies, my go-to Clan big one is the Warhawk. I think I owe more game-overs in MechWarrior 2 to Warhawks than any other mech.
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Aug 24, 2011 21:37
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As far as tanks go, I'm partial to the Demolisher. 80 tons of two Autocannon/20s, ammo, and armor for two million C-bills. Simple and effective.
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Aug 25, 2011 05:43
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an oddly awful oud posted:That's only half true; some Clan assaults have both ES internals and FF armor, but a Standard engine instead of an XL. It's mostly on second-liners like the Marauder IIC and Warhammer IIC, but the Kingfisher omni also has that layout. Unless Sarna is lying to me, all three can in fact be found on one mech: the Stormcrow.
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Aug 27, 2011 03:19
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The Merry Marauder posted:"assaults" Ah. Thought he was talking about Clan mechs in general at that point. My mistake.
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Aug 27, 2011 03:24
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Octatonic posted:This was a pretty good turn for the goonlance! It is called the goonstar, freebirth.
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Aug 27, 2011 23:06
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Gimmick Account posted:Nice turn, but what happened to zell? You focused fire on the very first combat turn and challenged no one. Did something special happen behind the scenes or are you just ignoring clan rules completely? Zell doesn't apply to bandits and other scum, as I recall. Like stupid space ninja-wannabes.
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Aug 28, 2011 01:45
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landcollector posted:[roleplaying time!] gently caress that. I call for a Trial of Annihilation against KnoxZone for so insulting one of the most esteemed heirs of Kerensky in this thread.
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Aug 28, 2011 02:21
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Affi posted:Based on Far Country, what else could the opposing team have to work with? Bear in mind that a magnetic anomaly was reported in the intro post to this fight. I have a feeling that at least one of our standard-issue surprises will stem from that.
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Aug 29, 2011 20:12
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MJ12 posted:No. The only way to blindfire-kill targets is artillery or other area of effect weaponry which the Clans tend to lack. The Hell's Horses have artillery - I think we were supposed to face Clan artillery on the second Comstar mission until the goonlance shot down the laser designator helo before the artillery could fire. The goonstar, however, is a Diamond Shark unit, so most likely no artillery.
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Aug 31, 2011 04:42
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The Clangoon is Infected. The DCMS pilots are listed as Delusional... Anyone else getting H. P. Lovecraft vibes? There are things man was not meant to see...
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Aug 31, 2011 23:45
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