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Yeah Man posted:Is it possible to transition to the front office later, though? I expect this depends a lot on the bank where you work. In mine it's definitely possible as rotations in general are highly encouraged (they encourage people to change jobs every 3~5 years within the bank).
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Mar 8, 2015 13:04
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Basically every job in business is good for economics and stats majors  Just find what you're interested in!
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Mar 8, 2015 21:10
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Yeah Man posted:Thanks, my job is mainly setting up settlement instructions and managing exceptions. Is it possible to transition to the front office later, though? This sounds more like what I would call "middle office", but that term is a bit weird anyway You'll hear everything regarding transitioning to FO.. from "it was no problem" to "its impossible". I think its highly dependent on the firm's culture. If you're not looking to be a millionaire or anything, you'll still make a nice paycheck at most banks working anywhere really. If you want to go FO, idk maybe think of an MBA or CFA or something like that
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Mar 8, 2015 21:27
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Operations goon here. I did 2 years in the back office and never want to go back. It can be interesting at times but for the most part you'll be spending your entire day in front of Excel and Outlook, not necessarily counting beans but making sure all the beans end up in the right places. If they don't, you send more emails and make phone calls to try and fix it. At the entry-level you won't be doing much more than this, maybe if you're lucky you can join a project team within half a year. Then you get the privilege of sitting on global calls at 9AM everyday, yay! That said people that actually know their poo poo in the BO are literally indispensable. Provided the global financial system remains somewhat stable, you will have a job until you retire. Even if your firm lays off all of S&T, you'll still have a job. Like, even in the event Cthulhu obliterates our office we still have to make sure our drat trades settle because if they don't, the economy rapidly goes to poo poo too. So you'll definitely have a job. Try and learn as much about the trade lifecycle as possible, and exactly where your team fits in. This will make your job easier and you will be 50x more useful to your company. Anything involving settlements and SSI setup is typically classed as BO. MO is typically trade support, so we sit closer to S&T and mostly just support them. The reason there's a line (and in my firm, several city blocks) between the two is because nobody with write access to the risk management system is allowed write access to the settlements systems. Otherwise someone could just book some trade facing the Nigerian Royal Family and settle it themselves, poof money gone. So MO supports trading by having write access in the risk management system, but doing only Operationsy-stuff. For comp, yeah, obviously Ops is less because we are just a cost center, i.e. we don't make the bank any money (there are a few exceptions but whatever). As a result there's a lot less glamour, no stupid big bonuses. I would guess that even our global head of Ops is around $250K. However you'll probably start around $60K? So you won't be struggling either. Rotation is a crapshoot, yes. I would say MO is an easier jumping point to FO because we work more directly with S&T and in some cases sit on the desk. And indeed some MO coworkers have taken roles in S&T once those seats open up. So not impossible but I wouldn't join Ops under the impression you'll definitely move to FO after a year or whatever. zmcnulty fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Mar 9, 2015 |
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Mar 9, 2015 13:40
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zmcnulty posted:Rotation is a crapshoot, yes. I would say MO is an easier jumping point to FO because we work more directly with S&T and in some cases sit on the desk. And indeed some MO coworkers have taken roles in S&T once those seats open up. So not impossible but I wouldn't join Ops under the impression you'll definitely move to FO after a year or whatever. Ha, that's funny because in my bank there only one rotation that is never ever allowed and it's rotating from Middle Office to Front Office. Apparantly some rogue trader in France (Jerome Kerviel) abused his background from middle office to know how to evade the risk checking systems and trading limitations of the bank and ended up with an estimated loss of almost 5$ billion. Not my bank, but ever since you have to rotate from MO to some other part of the bank first (and stay a few years) before you can go to FO. Also FO and BO are managed by the same part of the bank while MO is split off into an entirely different part (different chain of directors etc, different building), again to avoid corruption and rogue traders. edit: to illustrate the difference, at the Christmas party of Markets everybody even remotely involved with FO and BO was invited (i.e. even IT people like me) yet Middle Office wasn't. Walh Hara fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Mar 9, 2015 |
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Mar 9, 2015 19:25
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Walh Hara posted:Ha, that's funny because in my bank there only one rotation that is never ever allowed and it's rotating from Middle Office to Front Office. Apparantly some rogue trader in France (Jerome Kerviel) abused his background from middle office to know how to evade the risk checking systems and trading limitations of the bank and ended up with an estimated loss of almost 5$ billion. Not my bank, but ever since you have to rotate from MO to some other part of the bank first (and stay a few years) before you can go to FO. This is just because SG is stupid and didn't wipe his system permissions when he moved, as I recall.
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Mar 10, 2015 00:36
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Walh Hara posted:Ha, that's funny because in my bank there only one rotation that is never ever allowed and it's rotating from Middle Office to Front Office. Apparantly some rogue trader in France (Jerome Kerviel) abused his background from middle office to know how to evade the risk checking systems and trading limitations of the bank and ended up with an estimated loss of almost 5$ billion. Not my bank, but ever since you have to rotate from MO to some other part of the bank first (and stay a few years) before you can go to FO. Actually it's funny you mention that because I originally had a line in that paragraph about how post-Kweku Adoboli the MO->FO move got a lot more difficult at UBS. He is former MO as well, and I worked in UBS MO when he was arrested. But even a year after that we had MO people moving to TA roles in FO, so again, not impossible. Granted the global head of trading or something had to sign off on that move but hey.
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Mar 10, 2015 01:04
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zmcnulty posted:Operations goon here. I did 2 years in the back office and never want to go back. It can be interesting at times but for the most part you'll be spending your entire day in front of Excel and Outlook, not necessarily counting beans but making sure all the beans end up in the right places. If they don't, you send more emails and make phone calls to try and fix it. At the entry-level you won't be doing much more than this, maybe if you're lucky you can join a project team within half a year. Then you get the privilege of sitting on global calls at 9AM everyday, yay! How would you leverage your experience towards going into a different position or career then? What kind of career change would you want as someone who worked in the back office?
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Mar 10, 2015 03:37
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I'm currently working on my bachelors in economics and will be done in about a year. I am just now committed to the idea of working in finance. You're supposed to get work experience before you get your MBA, but I'm interested in getting a master's in finance or even wealth management, does the same rule apply? I haven't really been grooming myself for a career in the field--I currently work in mortgage banking and have mediocre grades because I've been focusing more on the job. What's going to be my best avenue getting my foot in the door after undergrad? I'm not necessarily married to the idea of working for an investment bank, stuff like private equity and hedge fund operations are all interesting to me as well.
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Mar 20, 2015 23:59
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Sharzak posted:I'm currently working on my bachelors in economics and will be done in about a year. I am just now committed to the idea of working in finance. You're supposed to get work experience before you get your MBA, but I'm interested in getting a master's in finance or even wealth management, does the same rule apply? I haven't really been grooming myself for a career in the field--I currently work in mortgage banking and have mediocre grades because I've been focusing more on the job. What's going to be my best avenue getting my foot in the door after undergrad? I'm not necessarily married to the idea of working for an investment bank, stuff like private equity and hedge fund operations are all interesting to me as well. What do you want to do? You can't be too vague when you didn't go the internship route.
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Mar 24, 2015 01:35
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I am pretty good at and really enjoy excel modeling--econometrics has been my favorite class I've taken so far. I did apply for the summer analyst position at GS in October, made it through two rounds of interviews and was let down gently after the field day they had at their building. I'm kicking myself now for not taking that more seriously but at the time it was just an opportunity I had, I thought it would be cool to work for Goldman for a summer, actually making a career of finance hadn't occured to me. After meeting the people and hearing about the day to day type of work I kind of got bitten and I am as sure as I can be that the industry is for me. The crux of what I'm asking is this: to what extent is working in finance for finance majors? Goldman had a bunch of people from different educational backgrounds but I almost got the feeling it was a diversity parade rather than indicative of industry demographics as a whole. What type of jobs should I as an Econ major be looking for that will ease my transition into either grad school or an analyst desk? I was pretty confident for a while that my current job would be a huge plus/easy in (there aren't many 23 year olds who have been involved with mortgages as long as I have) but the more I've learned the more I realize that it's not even the same ballpark.
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Mar 24, 2015 05:50
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Sharzak posted:I am pretty good at and really enjoy excel modeling--econometrics has been my favorite class I've taken so far. I did apply for the summer analyst position at GS in October, made it through two rounds of interviews and was let down gently after the field day they had at their building. I'm kicking myself now for not taking that more seriously but at the time it was just an opportunity I had, I thought it would be cool to work for Goldman for a summer, actually making a career of finance hadn't occured to me. After meeting the people and hearing about the day to day type of work I kind of got bitten and I am as sure as I can be that the industry is for me. Major doesn't really matter unless its engineering. School pedigree matters more. Again, you need to be more specific what you want to pursue; what business line?
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Mar 26, 2015 02:38
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I've been looking to expand my career and I seem to keep coming back to finance (very broadly defined) as pretty much the only option where you don't top out without having to start your own business. I have some direct experience (I worked for a BB in college) but my career since then has been much more tech-heavy. If one were to go in as a quant, is it ever possible to get out of that role? Most of my friends from college who went that route are basically in the same position as they were ten years ago -- certainly none of them are now buy side. Is that a reflection on them personally, or are you just permanently viewed as "the help" once you start down that path?
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Jul 5, 2015 20:57
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Do you have a PhD in a quantitative discipline like math, stats or physics? If so you can usually get hired right into the buy side. If not I don't really like your chances. BBs aren't really known for top notch quant trading stuff relative to all the funds out there that specialise in it. Could also be in S&T doing structuring but the PhD question remains.
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Jul 14, 2015 10:10
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unixbeard posted:Do you have a PhD in a quantitative discipline like math, stats or physics? Yes. Would you mind sharing the names of some of these buy side places you're talking about? They're not exactly beating a path to my door, unlike every tech company that thinks ML is cool and has a recruiter who's heard of LinkedIn. Google hasn't been much help to me. I assume you're talking HF mostly, which tend to keep a low profile.
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Jul 15, 2015 05:42
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Yes a lot of it is HFT, but there is a real mix. Tradebot XR Susquehanna DE Shaw Two Sigma Ren Tech AQR DRW GETCO Jane Street Optiver Tibra WH Jump Trading/Capital Management/etc. Some specialist recruiters are http://www.hrg.net/ and http://vacancies.gqrgm.com/ also poke around https://www.efinancialcareers.com and https://www.automatedtrader.net in a pinch.
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Jul 15, 2015 10:42
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Shot in the dark, and mostly just out of curiosity, but does anyone here know anything about Altpoint Capital (or the associated Altpoint Ventures)? Reputation, etc.
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Jul 15, 2015 14:01
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unixbeard posted:Yes a lot of it is HFT, but there is a real mix. Thanks, that's really helpful. A few of those sound familiar, but the only one I really know about is Two Sigma, which also has a venture arm.
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Jul 16, 2015 04:26
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Bonuses finally broke out this year, at least for analysts. All-in comp is now back at pre-crisis levels (not adjusting for inflation of course).
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Aug 2, 2015 23:16
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Swingline posted:Bonuses finally broke out this year, at least for analysts. All-in comp is now back at pre-crisis levels (not adjusting for inflation of course). Got any data on this?
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Aug 12, 2015 23:17
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chupacabraTERROR posted:Got any data on this? All in top bucket first year comp at my bank is $85k base + $70k bonus = $155k. Pre-crisis it peaked at $60k base + $90k top bucket bonus = $150k.
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Aug 13, 2015 12:01
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Swingline posted:All in top bucket first year comp at my bank is $85k base + $70k bonus = $155k. Pre-crisis it peaked at $60k base + $90k top bucket bonus = $150k. Sweet. Likely getting promoted this year to associate at a boutique. Do you know of any publicly published data on comp? Pretty sure my bosses just do a google search to figure out the range on Wall Street.
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Aug 13, 2015 15:20
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chupacabraTERROR posted:Sweet. Likely getting promoted this year to associate at a boutique. Do you know of any publicly published data on comp? Pretty sure my bosses just do a google search to figure out the range on Wall Street. Mergers and Inquisitions will come out with a report at some point. Third year at my bank top bucket was $110k bonus + $95k base for what its worth. A to A signing bonus is $40k paid on top of your 3rd year bonus across the street.
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Aug 13, 2015 23:39
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Jesus, did all you guys go buyside at once or something? IWM checking in. 
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Nov 5, 2015 00:26
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Still here in real estate. Also drat, StuyTown under contract for $5.3 billion 9 years later.
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Nov 5, 2015 01:12
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Also still here (media & entertainment boutique). Year seems to be slowing down, maybe now this thread will come back to life??
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Nov 5, 2015 01:17
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Feel like a decent amount of layoffs are coming in equities.
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Nov 17, 2015 05:07
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So how'd everyone do this year?
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Dec 18, 2015 22:01
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I feel like this is the de facto finance thread, so I'll ask this here. I'm a financial reporter looking to switch careers, it's kind of a bummer to be the poorest person who reads the Fed minutes. I'm not a super math guy, although I do have the Canadian entry-level financial designation and plenty of financial knowledge, and so I don't quite know where I would fit at a big investment bank or in the wider business world. What are some of the job titles where it's less Excel and more Word and Powerpoint? I realize this is stupidly broad, I'm just interested in learning more about non-quant positions. I'd love to be an analyst, but so would everybody else. Blackula69 fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Jan 4, 2016 |
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Jan 4, 2016 22:06
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Blackula69 posted:What are some of the job titles where it's less Excel and more Word and Powerpoint? Summer analyst. To seriously answer your question--Honestly the quantitative stuff in most groups is basic algebra. There are obviously exceptions where the math and theory is more complex but for the most part the hard part of the job is just learning the job. And the grind.
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Jan 5, 2016 15:04
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I'm looking for something I can enter without doing an MBA, so most of the summer analyst positions are out. At least where I am.
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Jan 5, 2016 16:03
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I saw your first post and was like, "Hey! I know someone who got his start as a reporter for an industry financial/trade journal!", However...Blackula69 posted:I'm looking for something I can enter without doing an MBA, so most of the summer analyst positions are out. At least where I am. Your next best bet would be to pass the CFA Level 1 to get some credibility and network like a madman. Our local CFA Society chapter has monthly luncheons, wouldn't be surprised if yours does as well. It would be particularly worth your while to do so if you are open to other paths within finance/investment. If you have an industry specialization or name recognition (either for your boss or, even better, potential clients) that would probably help you open some doors as well.
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Jan 19, 2016 02:35
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Thanks. I have the marks for a top-tier MBA and already have a master's degree, I was just hoping to not have to put in the time (and the tens of thousands in tuition). I'm 29 so it's not the end of the world if I go back to school, but I was hoping to pursue that later on (and get someone else to pay for it). I speak with financial analysts all the time and have pretty decent connections through my job, but I definitely need more financial credentials. Don't mean to turn this into a personal career advice thread, just wondering if there were entry-level positions for anyone besides business grads. I guess it makes it a lot tougher path.
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Jan 26, 2016 22:09
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Anyone mid/back office here? I am looking for books about clearing and settlement processes. I am interested in both introductory stuff about how everything fits together and the different players, and also more detailed descriptions about the different steps and deadlines through the trade life cycle. Any recommendations?
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Jan 28, 2016 16:36
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I spent 5 years in a finance PhD program and my dissertation was on high frequency asset pricing but I left before finishing. I'm afraid firms won't hire me because they could hire actual PhDs for quant work and MBAs for the other stuff. Is this fear justified? FWIW, I also have a BS and MS in Electrical and Computer Engineering.
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Feb 6, 2016 09:24
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Josh Lyman posted:I spent 5 years in a finance PhD program and my dissertation was on high frequency asset pricing but I left before finishing. Yeah. When you need to whittle 100 resumes down to 15 you tend not to give people benefit of the doubt and just go with the resumes that have all the right boxes checked. The only way to overcome that is to network and make a great impression (including explaining why you didn't finish your degree).
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Feb 6, 2016 15:33
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Swingline posted:Yeah. When you need to whittle 100 resumes down to 15 you tend not to give people benefit of the doubt and just go with the resumes that have all the right boxes checked. The only way to overcome that is to network and make a great impression (including explaining why you didn't finish your degree).
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Feb 6, 2016 21:48
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Start networking and see what happens. You will get hired over people with better resumes if you network well compared to people who just submit applications and do nothing else. Buy-side firms like Fidelity and Invesco are way more competitive for front office spots than the investment banks by the way. IBs need way more people, have much higher turnover, and are willing to train you. Fidelity/other asset managers need way less people, their employees rarely leave since it's such a good gig, and they expect you to know what you're doing on day 1 (by having worked at a bank for example - no one knows poo poo about how to actually do the work from schooling which is why a second year Analyst with an undergrad from a state school will always run circles on a clueless fresh MBA associate hire from harvard).
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Feb 6, 2016 22:01
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Swingline posted:Start networking and see what happens. You will get hired over people with better resumes if you network well compared to people who just submit applications and do nothing else. Buy-side firms like Fidelity and Invesco are way more competitive for front office spots than the investment banks by the way. IBs need way more people, have much higher turnover, and are willing to train you. Fidelity/other asset managers need way less people, their employees rarely leave since it's such a good gig, and they expect you to know what you're doing on day 1 (by having worked at a bank for example - no one knows poo poo about how to actually do the work from schooling which is why a second year Analyst with an undergrad from a state school will always run circles on a clueless fresh MBA associate hire from harvard). This is a bit rosy on AMs for my liking, considering my experiences on that side. The benefits will be good and may have slightly less to do but acting like it's a way better gig or lower turnover isn't accurate, and more willing to train only applies to their firm's models after a certain point of basic knowledge. It can be a good starting point, but it's not some beautiful middle ground between hardcore IB and common/civilian banking and brokerage services. Keep in mind with this that all those buy-side firms and brokerage op spots will pay a hell of a lot less than IBs if you go that route. poo poo, I left Fidelity for consulting the first chance I got because big-box brokers love to keep employees as stressed as a normal IB but don't pay at the same rate or offer the same level of appreciation on your career. My only path forward was either leave the actual operations side for something else or try desperately to wiggle up Fidelity's ladder since asset managers only care about training for their specific model as opposed to the broad focus of IBs. Frankly, any IB is going to be much more meritocratic too and will tend towards the people who do the job well rather than the most qualified coming in instead of AMs which will tend towards promoting the best networked people following the same rule book for the company rather than the ones best applying the methodology and executing. Focus on the networks, and keep in mind that asset managers could boost your resume but will still require some serious leg work from you moving forward since they simply are more insular. Don't be afraid perhaps of going to an AM for a bit then trying to jump to an IB from there since that may be easier, but if you do go the AM route, be careful about how long you stay.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:14
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chupacabraTERROR posted:Also still here (media & entertainment boutique). Year seems to be slowing down, maybe now this thread will come back to life?? Do you have a way of contacting you about life at a boutique? Currently at a BB and want to learn more crazypeltast52 posted:Still here in real estate. Also drat, StuyTown under contract for $5.3 billion 9 years later. BB/MM/EB or boutique? Want to learn more about REIB...
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Feb 24, 2016 05:14
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