The Investment Banking Thread: Our Excel Models Smell of Rich Mahogany

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Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

If Ron Burgundy weren't a news anchor, he would be an Investment Banker.

Welcome to the Investment Banking Career and Education thread. Random threads have popped up over time about schooling and career paths in finance and hopefully this thread can act as a catch-all for at least some of them.

"I don't know poo poo about Investment Banking."
Read this: http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-hierarchy/

Things that should be discussed in here include (but aren't limited to):

The different careers in the divisions of a "modern investment bank" including Mergers & Acquistions, Capital Markets, Sales & Trading, Operations, Wealth Management, etc. I also think buyside discussion is appropriate because lets face it, it's where we all want to be and banking is often one of the first rungs on the ladder to getting there.
Since your education credentials are all important in finance, this thread would be a good place to talk about different programs both undergraduate and graduate.
Public policy effecting the banking industry.
90's Rock.
Models
Bottles.

If you're new to this, here is a very simplified description of positions in an investment bank:

Vault Career Intelligence posted:

There are dozens of specialized functions at an investment bank, ranging from private wealth management (essentially, brokers to the rich) to risk managers (those who make sure the bank isn't taking on too much risk). At most major investment banks, the corporate finance and sales and trading functions are among the largest and most important.

The corporate finance department works to raise money for companies and other large organizations looking to expand or acquire new holdings. Teams of analysts, associates, VPs and MDs work to analyze the potential profit and risk for their own bank while creating pitches to entice the client. While good math and Excel skills are essential to being a successful I-banker, those who can buttress their quantitative skills with creativity when building pitch books and PowerPoint presentations tend to catch the eye of their superiors.

Sales and trading is a different story. An investment banking trading floor is chaos. There's usually a lot of swearing, yelling and shouting going on�a pressure cooker of stress. Traders must rely on their market instincts, and salespeople yell for "bids" when the market tumbles. Deciding what to buy or sell, and at what price to buy and sell, is difficult when millions of dollars are at stake.

However, salespeople and traders work much more reasonable hours than corporate finance bankers. Rarely does a salesperson or trader venture into the office on a Saturday or Sunday, leaving the trading floor completely void of life on weekends. Any corporate finance analyst who has crossed a trading floor on a Saturday will tell you that the only noises to be heard are the clocks clicking every minute and the whir of the air conditioner.

Analysts and associates in investment banking work virtually all the time, and their stress level can be high as mistakes are not as easily tolerated. Analysts are hired out of college and typically work two or three years before going back to get their MBAs. Associates, commonly hired out of graduate business school, gradually take on more and more client contact and move up to the vice president level in three to four years. After vice president comes director (or senior vice president) and then managing director. Established relationships and networking abilities determine the success of an MD who is often responsible for originating deals within his/her sector.

In sales and trading, the career path is not quite as structured. For example, analysts move more easily to the associate level without an MBA than they do in corporate finance. And associates can climb quickly to the VP and director levels, depending on the firm's need and the talent of the salesperson or trader.

List of websites to check out:

https://www.vault.com: Lots of job descriptions. Useful for beginners.
http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/: Your one stop shop for good articles on banking recruiting.
https://www.dealbook.com: Finance and business focused news from the New York Times.
https://www.dealbreaker.com: Self-proclaimed "Wall Street Tabloid". Similar to dealbook but with a humorous spin.
http://epicureandealmaker.blogspot.com/: Flowery blog written by an anonymous banker. A high-effort read but his take on markets and the industry is certainly worth your time.
http://www.leveragedsellout.com/: A collection of (fake) stories and anecdotes about life as a young banker. It's no longer being updated but the posts for the most part are hilarious and are worth checking out in your down time (if you still have any of that).
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/
http://equityprivate.typepad.com/

Here are some leather bound books to check out:

Monkey Business by John Rolfe and Peter Troob
Bonfire of the Vanities by Tom Wolfe
American Psycho by Bret Easton Ellis
Liar's Poker by Michael Lewis
The Big Short by Michael Lewis
All The Devils are Here by Joe Nocera and Bethany McLean
The End of the Free Market by Ian Bremmer
Ahead of the Curve: Two Years at Harvard Business School by Phillip Delves Broughton

Thoogsby fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Jul 29, 2011

# ¿ Jan 26, 2011 20:15

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 10:20

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Socialism posted:

I'm currently a first year analyst in an industry group at one of the bulge bracket banks, so I can pitch in and answer some questions if needed. I work mostly on m&a stuff so my knowledge of capital markets is limited aside from memos. I did 2 Internships in IBD of other banks as well.

I'd recommend adding http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com and wallstreetoasis to the list. WSO can be full of poo poo but occasionally it has some useful bits.

Since my start as full time I've become rather disillusioned with the job, so my perspective is probably very biased, but I understand some people actually do end up enjoying banking (and of course the allure of going to the buyside...) My hours are ~90-100 average, and my group's culture is such that going home before 9 is pretty much a cardinal sin.

Links added to OP.

I would be interested to here where you went to school. 2 Internships and straight to M&A at a BB is pretty impressive. I would love to be where you are when I graduate, although it may only be boutiques or operations at a BB that are available to me.

I mentioned in the thread that sparked this that I'm currently doing a 6-month co-op on the corporate derivatives structuring & sales desk in the capital markets division at an investment bank in NYC right now.

GET MONEY posted:

How do I break into the buy-side without going through the sell-side? What's the best way to get an internship (ideally with a hedge fund/asset management firm) as a soon-to-be university graduate?

edit: Should I/how do I include personal trading/system development experience on a resume?

I think it's pretty rare to be honest. Everyone has to take their lumps at some point. It may be possible to end up in PE or a hedge fund right out of undergrad but it's probably going to be back office unless you're a very bright person coming from a very prestigious school.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2011 02:05

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Socialism posted:

London School of Economics. It's a place where they basically groom you for finance. I'd guess easily around 20-30% of all graduates end up in banking. I don't work at GS or one of the what people would call the top BB's. For what it's worth, I would probably go back to a boutique if I had the chance now. One of my internships was at a boutique and it was much better in terms of life style/treatment from senior guys.

I'm planning on taking classes at LSE this summer for about 9 weeks. I'm really looking forward to it.

Just out of curiosity, what was the boutique you worked at in what city?

# ¿ Jan 27, 2011 18:02

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Its Miller Time posted:

Lots of stuff

Added books to the OP. Along with a couple others, but I'd like to keep the list going.

Also I don't think we should limit discussion or questions to just advisory. I would like to use the term Investment Banking to cover all functions inside what most of the population considers an Investment Bank, even though the divisions between banking, capital markets, and sales and trading are more defined within an actual bank.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2011 02:44

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Socialism posted:

You'll have a blast. The location is amazing and if you haven't been to London before, it's quite an experience. Get ready for a lot of self-study though, LSE's teaching is awful. The career services center is pretty useless, but some banks/consultancies hold summer info sessions that you really should attend if you get a chance.

I've never been to London, or Europe for that matter. I have a few friends who did this same summer program though so I've been briefed on the amount of work it requires. But I'll be going right from an internship so the culture shock of long hours shouldn't be too bad.

I asked about the boutiques because my school has a single co-op with Piper Jaffray in Los Angeles and it's been on my radar. I also have a weak connection with an MD at Houlihan Lokey that I may pursue and was curious if you had first hand experience with either.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2011 03:51

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Admirable Gusto posted:

Haha well, I'm going to one of the megafunds so I might be a little biased.

This year's recruiting season is shaping up to start a lot sooner than last year. The first interviews might even be in March (as opposed to April last year). When it starts it's like a whirlwind because no one wants to lose out on the top talent. I remember it was Friday evening when word came that the megafunds had started interviewing; I had an offer in hand the following Wednesday night, barely five days after the insanity started.

As for PE being banking redux my thought is that PE shares superficial similarities to banking. The hours are not going to be great - you'll still have to deal with 70hr weeks (potentially spiking to over a hundred when it's crunch time on a deal) although weekends will be much more predictable. You'll still be doing the same kinds of valuation analyses - precedents, comps, DCFs, LBO models, etc. Almost everyone will have come from IB, so the lingo and the culture will be quite recognizable.

On the other hand, the critical difference for me when it comes to sell-side vs. buy-side is that you no longer have to drop everything to suit the capricious whims of the client. You no longer have your weekends wrecked because they want something pointless done by Monday. Then let's not forget that everything that you put out as a sell-side person has the analytical rigor of a soft turd because no one will show the client anything they don't want to see.

Instead, when people on the buy-side want something done they generally give you time to think about it, the leeway to talk about whether it makes sense, and the trust that you have the skills to do it without them having to mark up every last period and quotation mark. On the buy-side, people prefer things to actually be right instead of look right. And that makes all the difference. Ultimately no amount of money will keep you from burning out if you don't have the enthusiasm for the work. If you do though, the buy-side seems to be a much more congenial place to exercise your skills and make a little money in the process.

e> I work for a boutique where they are incredibly understanding when it comes to recruiting. I even had multiple MDs put in unsolicited calls on my behalf, which was very heartwarming. Contrast this with a certain cephalopod, where they fire your rear end if you so much as breathe a word about it.

Also if anyone is confused about industry-specific terminology/acronyms I would be happy to explain

I'd be curious to know what range of pay a first year at a PE can expect, especially coming out of banking. Is it a big step up? First and second year analyst wages on the sell-side seem easy enough to find but PE is still a little dark to me.

# ¿ Jan 28, 2011 13:37

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Admirable Gusto posted:

It's harder to generalize since there's much more variation, unlike analyst level where all banks try to hit the industry standard with a slight boutique premium.

Very broadly (emphasis on very; this is all-in gross comp with ~40% coming from base and the rest bonus):

Up to $500k for hybrids like Centerbridge
$275-400k for megafunds like TPG
$200-325k for mid-market like Gores Group

with lots of variation depending on how the fund does, individual performance and general comp culture at the firm

Hedge funds are impossible to generalize, except I would expect a base draw above $100k

So it seems like a big step up for a 1-2 year banking analyst across the board, just with more variation. This has been an interesting bonus season to be working on Wall Street. I have friends that are interning at Credit Suisse working with people in equity research where bonuses topped out at $5,000. On the other hand my AD's friend who still works as a trader at Goldman got $1 million and he's only 26.

Thoogsby fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Jan 29, 2011

# ¿ Jan 29, 2011 17:59

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Socialism posted:

You'll have a blast. The location is amazing and if you haven't been to London before, it's quite an experience. Get ready for a lot of self-study though, LSE's teaching is awful. The career services center is pretty useless, but some banks/consultancies hold summer info sessions that you really should attend if you get a chance.

Do you recall what type of (if any) recruiting seminars were held in the summer at LSE? I'll hopefully be there from the beginning of July through the middle of August and I really want to capitalize on my time there.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2011 21:23

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Socialism posted:

There aren't any (as far as I know) that are held at LSE, but many firms hold sessions on-site. I believe Bain (consulting), Morgan Stanley, and Barclays did it last year. You may have to bugger the career services centre to find out some of them, but I don't know what kind of resources are available for summer students. Some of banks actually post the events on their website and you can just register online.

If you want to actually land a job, the best way is just try to make as many friends as possible and use good ol' networking and asking around. But it won't be easy as you do not attend a UK school full time and some employers might shrug you off.

To be frank - unless you have some overwhelming desire to jump ship to a different firm/job in London, just enjoy your time there. Opportunities are still greater and better (as far as my very limited knowledge tells me) in the U.S. I originally brought up those sessions because I think they're a good way to meet like-minded people and learn more about other types of jobs.

Well I go to a Co-Op school and there are a few positions in London (including one at GS) that I may be interested in. I'm going to talk to people at my school who've had the position and see if I can't get some contact info and try to set up an informational interview or something. But I'd also like to make as many connections with bankers at big global banks as possible.

I don't go to a target school so my plan is to utilize my time at one as best as possible.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2011 13:56

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Mandalay posted:

Would a hypothetical analyst who worked twice as fast as an average analyst get to go home early in banking?

Simple answer: No.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2011 20:21

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Mandalay posted:

Would a hypothetical analyst who worked twice as fast as an average analyst get to go home early in banking?

To elaborate, a good portion of your time as an analyst is spent "on the beach". Meaning that you might not be working on something but you're waiting to work on something or get an assignment. Even if you're unaware of any pending assignments you still need to be ready to work.

Also if you're rushing through your work you're likely to make mistakes in a profession that doesn't tolerate them.

# ¿ Feb 5, 2011 21:03

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

tolerabletariff posted:

I find it incredibly obnoxious that I have athlete buddies with poo poo resumes that got a bunch of i-banking interviews that I didn't. I mean, you can make the argument that their time commitment means they'd be able to cope better with the 90-hour workweeks, but that shouldn't really make them more qualified.

I think it has a lot to do with being able to work in a team environment and not drive the people around you crazy.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2011 14:55

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

tolerabletariff posted:

Hahaha wow I got my rear end handed to me by Goldman. By all accounts (I had about 5 friends interview for the same position) I had the softest interview, but I think I disqualified myself on the first question:
"What would you like to do in the Securities division?" (I really want to be in an IBD but I only got Securities from GS)

I remembered the job function with this description: "...researches industry sectors and individual companies and makes longer-term investments." I forgot that this line of business is called simply "Investing" and instead called it what it sounds like--prop trading. What I didn't know, and should have known before I planted my foot squarely in my mouth, is that Goldman phased out prop trading last year. loving poo poo.

The interviewers glanced at each other, looked at me, and proceeded to remind me of this. I also did rather poorly on the stock pitch because rather than saying, "pitch me a stock," they said, "what is your favorite trade?"

Blew that one bad. Luckily all of my remaining interviews are IBD so I won't have to deal with that poo poo.

Nice to know you didn't prepare for an interview that kids at non-target schools would have punched their own mother in the chest to get.

Thoogsby fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Feb 9, 2011

# ¿ Feb 9, 2011 13:27

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Good post today on Mergers & Inquisitions on banking internships.

http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/decide-summer-internship-offers/

# ¿ Feb 10, 2011 04:00

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Admirable Gusto posted:

I don't think it's possible to judge how a firm/particular office is before you actually work there. Even your friends at the firm are going to have their recruiting hats on when they talk about their job, and they will at the very least try hard to spin things in a positive way. As for your experiences meeting people when you interview, you should bear in mind that any middle to upper level investment bankers that you meet have been selected for their ability to smooth talk clients. Nor are rumors particularly trustworthy - they are often ridiculously out of date, if not flat out wrong.

The one thing you can judge is how willing the senior people are to meet with you when you visit the office. If one firm brings in a ton of VPs/MDs to talk you into accepting and takes you out to dinner afterwards, and another firm has trouble rustling up anyone above the analyst level, that's a pretty clear way to tell which firm values you more.

I think you're mostly right which is the general idea of the article, but I also think it depends on how close you are with the "friends" that work there. I have friends with jobs that have told me to never apply where they work, it's really a case by case scenario.

# ¿ Feb 10, 2011 15:36

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

It's Miller Time posted:

it's very much an employer's market right now unless you're a hot shot.

I think I'm fortunate to not be graduating until 2013. I think it should be a good hiring environment with the economy picking up and lots of baby boomers retiring.

# ¿ Feb 12, 2011 18:25

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Tom Steele posted:

Im pretty sure you go to Northeastern? I'm cooping at GS right now, if you want tips/information on it I'm glad to help. Please note: I'm not a business major so I really have no idea what most of you are talking about, but I am currently working in operations.

You work in agency lending, correct?

# ¿ Feb 13, 2011 21:13

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Mr. WTF posted:

Someone brought up basics in interview questions, here's one I always ask in case it helps. It's incredibly easy, but I'm sure a lot of M&A guys ask it, and I throw people out (politely) if they miss it...

If I were to give you two of the primary financial statements and ask you to create the third, which two would you take and which would you create?

just realized this was so easy I didn't post the answer...so I usually say I ask it because I want to understand their thinking, but there is only one right answer which is to create the cashflow. The other two have things you can't derive.

This is a great question. I wish more interviewers would ask questions like this instead of ones that just test to see how good you are at premeditated lying.

# ¿ Feb 16, 2011 01:43

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Woobles2121 posted:

I am a Junior at a smaller private school in Minnesota, St. Thomas, studying Finance and I had a few questions relevant to this thread.

1. I was recently offered an internship at TradeMonster/OptionMonster. I am unsure to what they will be having me doing, but I do know that it is unpaid. Which doesn't bother me too much, but I am more worried that the experience won't be worth the time. Is this true, and should I be looking elsewhere or is the experience and short time in Chicago worth it? My other option is to go back to my $10 an hour 30 hour a week summer job. 2. A little more irrelevant, but do any of you guys or ladies save your college text books. In the past I have sold my books back to the school for a 75% return on the price I paid, but now that I have started to enjoy my core finance classes and their books I feel that I should keep them. Are any of you glad you kept your book, or mad and wish that you had?

Thanks!

1. Technically unpaid internships aren't supposed to have you doing any work that contributes to the revenue of the company. If you're interested in trading perhaps it could be a good networking opportunity. Ask this question in the trading thread.

2. Do you mean they give you back 75% of what you paid? That's different than a 75% return. A 75% return would mean you pay $100 for a book at the beginning of the semester, and they but it back for $175 at the end. Which would be a sweet deal but seems unlikely. Either way there's no real reason to hold onto a finance text book. The only people I've seen keep a reference book around are derivatives traders and its unlikely you've tackled the sort of stuff they're dealing with thus far in your education. Most of the things in your finance texts you either won't need or can be looked up on the internet in a few seconds.

Thoogsby fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Feb 24, 2011

# ¿ Feb 24, 2011 13:32

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

A friend of mine just got an offer for a summer analyst position with BofA ML in their public finance division in New York. Does anyone know anything about the specific division or what their full time hiring process is like? I thought I heard somewhere that BofA was herding most of their first year analysts to their headquarters in North Carolina.

# ¿ Mar 1, 2011 22:45

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Also if you're a freshman, put in the effort to learn about all the different areas in Finance. At least I found that the reality of the work in the different divisions of finance varied from my initial perception of them.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2011 16:01

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Does anyone have any experience, directly or indirectly, with going to the buyside directly out of undergrad? There are a couple small PE shops that occassionally recruit out of my school and while I would only consider it if it were a front office role, I'm still hesitant to skip the banking part of "the track". If anyone could shed some light on compensaton and upward mobility I would be happy to hear about it.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2011 15:28

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Waroen posted:

If your ultimate goal is buyside there's no reason to gently caress around in banking and want to kill yourself for a few years if you can get there immediately. What PE shops recruit for front-office out of NEU?

Brooke PE Advisors. THL Credit also has a co-op and I've spoken with one of the partners at their presentation and he said while they haven't hired an undergrad in the past they wouldn't rule it out if the right candidate came along. Brooke is small and not well known, THL has pedigree on the street but clearly would be more difficult to work into. Bain has co-ops at Northeastern but they're all back office to my knowledge.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2011 15:48

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Waroen posted:

Brooke looks like they're a PE fund-of-funds which is a nice lifestyle but probably not what you're looking for as it's more due diligence and back-office type work. THL Credit is part of Thomas H. Lee so that would be pretty sweet but hard to break in to.

Yeah, it's definitely not an ideal line-up but I'm trying to consider all my options. The Co-Op program creates a difficult decision if you want to go into banking. Either you have to forgo the ability to do a summer internship and take a 6-month co-op or forgo the final co-op (where students may get full time offers) and risk not landing a summer internship.

econdroidbot posted:

I've tried to cobble together an understanding of the most recent financial collapse by reading a few books and a couple of articles here and there. One of the main culprits seems to be misapplying concepts from physics or other academic fields(such as Brownian motion, which one book harped on), which don't really hold up within the world of investments because investments don't behave the same way as natural phenomena. Has there been a drive to develop new fundamental theories that don't suffer from the same shortcomings?

This has more to do with quantitative analysis than banking. For the most part, the math required in banking is pretty simple and we have an army of financial engineers at our disposal should we need some numerical alchemy.

As far as being miserable, I think most high paying professions usually require a period of suffering. The newcomers are always expected to give up their pound of flesh. In banking its the worst when you're an analyst but I don't know that it's much worse than something like med school.

# ¿ Mar 8, 2011 16:30

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Swingline posted:

A senior acquaintance of mine just got offered a job at Bain in Boston right out of undergrad. I didn't ask about the details. He mentioned 75k starting +150k bonus or something so I assume it's not back office. He's kind of an all-star here in terms of running multiple student organizations but I heard his GPA is pretty average (3.6-3.7 range). I imagine he aced the interviews though with how outgoing and charismatic he is.

What school did he go to?

# ¿ Mar 10, 2011 14:14

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

The U.S. involvement in Libya is absolutely going to gently caress my life up. Looking forward to working an 18 hour day tomorrow.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2011 21:29

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

econdroidbot posted:

Hahhaa, this is exactly the kind of self-centered response I expected from this thread. How could those selfish Libyans do this to you?!

Joking aside, can you give me an idea of how such an event impacts your day to day? I assume now there's uncertainty in the oil market and such, and you need to update your positions accordingly. What other stuff do you need to do or consider?

I'm working on a derivatives desk in capital markets so we don't actually maintain positions. But anytime there's volatility in government yields or currencies I can plan on doing more work. This might mean redoing slides and models I've worked on or pricing new swaps based on current rates for clients. On top of this there's the normal day-to-day projects. For instance today I need to rework about 8 excel graphs and models that are all pulling data in from Bloomberg to spit out info in GBP instead of USD.

KidDynamite posted:

I just got accepted to Rutgers Business School and want to major in finance. My only concern is I'm 24 and will be 28 when I finish. Will that be held against me? I've been working for my fathers business(transportation company) since high school ended and have been running the day to day for the past 2. The reason I'm going back to school is this business is not something I want to do for the rest of my life(read: gently caress dealing with truck drivers daily).

I'm assuming this is for undergrad since 24 would be normal or even young for an MBA. Rutgers really isn't ideal if you want to break into banking. Reputation means quite a lot and while there might not be an academically worse school than others, you'll definitely have a hard time when it comes to recruiting. Perhaps consider going to Rutgers and transfering if you're able to.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2011 13:54

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

KidDynamite posted:

Were would you recommend transferring too? I'd like to go keep it in New Jersey or NYC. Basically somewhere I could commute too because I'm still going to work.

Not sure about New Jersey but as far as NYC goes NYU and Fordham have a pretty established reputation as solid business undergrad schools.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2011 17:46

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

theDOWmustflow posted:

If I want to break into bulge bracket finance (IB/PE) via business school, what's the cutoff in rankings? Will Columbia or Haas suffice for finance or does it HAVE to be Wharton? I ask because my friend at Wharton (undergrad) has told me multiple times that "honestly, everybody knows that Harvard and MIT MBAs are a joke".

Also I'll probably be 30 when I graduate with an MBA, will that hurt my chances when interviewing?

Your friends an idiot.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2011 19:12

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

theDOWmustflow posted:

Yeah, I figured. I gave it half-consideration because the law field is still in total meltdown so unless you go to H/S/Y your chances at working in Big Law are very slim, and also his brother, currently in the Wharton MBA program, said something to the effect that Harvard uses "weird" teaching methods and doesn't emphasize finance.

Harvard's MBA program is a case study program. Perhaps that's what he meant by "weird". Wharton is notorious for having a technicaly intensive finance curriculum.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2011 22:49

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

flyingfoggy posted:

This is speculation, but I'd be willing to bet that smaller boutique banks would be more lenient with your age and school than the big structured programs at large banks.

This is a difficult point and I've heard it argued both ways. While it's true boutiques usually don't get the same attention from the highest caliber applicants, they may not hire people from non-targets becaue they just don't have as large of an analyst pool to fill. Morgan Stanley may be trying to fill an analyst pool of 100 and will take 5 students from non-targets whereas Lazard may only need 20 analysts and might take none from non-targets. Either way there's no point to not shoot for the best job possible for yourself, just don't spend all your time trying to get into GS/MS.

# ¿ Mar 22, 2011 19:40

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

The Capitulator posted:

Hey guys, I'm in research for a boutique consulting/PE/corp finance co based in the Middle East. Daily tasks (besides industry-specific intelligence) include running FactSet and explaining to dumb fresh grads that you can in fact have negative enterprise value and that it's not a surprise the deal you're looking at has no disclosed multiples because the target is a lovely ISP in Burundi. Currently studying for CFA (level 1 exam in June) and hoping to some day move to banking proper.

Anyone using the Thomson Reuters community chat tool?

I'm not sure how much a CFA will help you in banking.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2011 12:52

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

The Capitulator posted:

I should have been more clear - if I do decide to move, I'm first and foremost shooting for the research positions, which are, as far as I can see, full of CFAs or at least level 2 candidates. I would actually love to hear from anyone in research in a big bank work.

Yeah, if you want to get into research a CFA is definitely a must. I thought you were referring to IBD where it would be nearly worthless.

Miller Time, do you get PMs? I would love to ask you a few questions about Public Finance.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2011 14:17

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

The Capitulator posted:

Cool. Hey so here's a question. How do bankers generally view research guys? For example, I found that in consulting, it varies between 'highly respected (but underpaid) specialists' to 'worthless admin monkeys, we consultants are so much better'. This highly depends on the team and the individual as well as experience of the consultant with the research guys. Any ideas about banking? What about pay? Where I am now, the fixed pay is slightly better than similar level consultants, PE or corporate finance guys but overall pay is worse because of the variable component.

Pay is highly dependent on performance, geography, and position so it's hard to say for sure without specifics.

As far as the relationship between bankers and researchers, I think it is strained. Sell-side analysts used to be all-stars at their respective banks but that status took a hit during the dot-com bubble and the enron/worldcom collapses. From what I hear now, sell-side analysts are under enormous pressue to provide favorable ratings to the banker's clients and the system has been perverted to the point where there is little incentive for analysts to be either contrarian or bearish.

Buy-side research though I hear is quite different. You get to see your ideas put into practice and aren't pressured by bankers to cheerlead their clients.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2011 16:41

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

MS & Oliver Wyman report is out. Overview here: http://news.efinancialcareers.co.uk/newsandviews_item/newsItemId-31629.

# ¿ Mar 28, 2011 21:07

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Take a look through this Wall Street Oasis post.

http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/regional-boutiques

# ¿ Mar 31, 2011 13:17

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Real Life posted:

I'm going to be a summer analyst in NYC. I live about an hour away and would definitely prefer just to take the train in, but I've heard people tell me it's not a great idea. The hours in the group I'm working in shouldn't be too bad and I would save a ton of money. Any opinions?

Don't most banks give out a housing stipend in addition to your normal comp? Either way, I would do everything I could to live closer to your job. Those internships are short and I can guarantee you're going to want those 2 hours a day back.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2011 19:39

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

roflcopter thief posted:

I am soon going to be graduating college, having majored in Physics and minored in Math. My in-major GPA is somewhere around a 3.6 or 3.7, with my general GPA around 3.4-3.5. I am fluent in 3 languages (looks good on a resume?), and am the president of my school's Society of Physics Students.

Would it be better to look into a master's program, given my status? I know next to nothing about finance right now, but I would be willing to sit down daily at the library and read books until I've taught myself what a typical undergraduate majoring in Finance would learn.

What are my chances of successfully breaking into banking/finance? I suppose I should mention I go to a not very well-known state (research) university.

I don't think your major or school preclude you from breaking into finance/banking. But I think generally people looking at resumes want to see a concrete interest in finance from people outside of a business/econ major. This could be through internships or associations on campus. This is especially true if you're coming from a non-target school.

# ¿ Apr 5, 2011 17:46

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Looks as though Goldman handily beat earnings estimates. Cue the music! We're Back!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GwjfUFyY6M

# ¿ Apr 19, 2011 13:04

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 10:20

Thoogsby: Nov 18, 2006; Very strong. Everyone likes me.

Adding the latest M&I post to the OP. Great rundown of the hierarchy in IB.

http://www.mergersandinquisitions.com/investment-banking-hierarchy/

# ¿ Apr 20, 2011 13:47

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > The Investment Banking Thread: Our Excel Models Smell of Rich Mahogany

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