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UCLA '10 grad, just started full-time as a 1st year analyst in a public finance group in Los Angeles. We serve as senior and co managers on many of the big cities and counties in California as well as California itself's general obligation (GO) and other bond issuances, such as tax & revenue anticipation bonds (TRANs). We also do project financing, either working with a municipality or developers to issue tax exempt or taxable bonds based on the revenues of the project they want to build. I recruited from basically Winter '09 until this fall without success with a 3.6/varsity club sports/greek life/PWM internship at a BB/internships in corp real estate and corp. finance. poo poo was tough. In terms of Los Angeles ibanking I got to 2nd rounds with the infamous UBS LA, and was roommates and am close friends with 2 of Moelis LA's current analysts. Book suggestions: Bonfire of the Vanities and Monkey Business. American Pyscho for color. Yes it is a book. A good one. Career advice: Hopefully you're at a target school where banks come and make presentations, host career fairs, or do other stuff. Go to them and make a good impression. If you're not a target school, find the nearest one and when said activities are and drive there. Recruiters are impressed by the effort. Hopefully you have some kind of banking seminar/workshop for prospective bankers, or have met other people interested in banking in your accounting/economics/finance coursework. Network. Study and mock interview with them. Get the really good "list of 1000 ibanking questions" lists from them without paying. Read the newspaper starting yesterday and generally be aware of world and political events, and have a coherent opinion on the cause of the financial crisis and the future of the U.S. and world economy. Maybe they'll be asking about the Euro crisis in interviews now, so I'd know what's going on there. Things that bankers are looking for in interviews: Able to work really hard. Without explicitly stating how awful the junior level work-life balance is, you need to acknowledge you know what you're getting into and maybe provide some examples of times you've worked hard. This is a perfect career for athletes, and I saw a great deal of less qualified UCLA athletes land jobs. Attention to detail. I think the main reason employers ask for a cover letter is to see if you understand presentation. I never realized how much arts and crafts there would be in the professional world, or how much time I'd spend laboring over formatting and presentation. Socialable. They need to be able to work with you for 12+ hours a day and not hate you. This is much more difficult than you think. This is an industry that while it has its quiet passive workhouse nerds, is built on gregarious type-A personalities, especially if they're grooming you for the higher ranks, and you should fit in. Often they're not. In the better shops there's often an expectation that they'll spit you out and use you and after you'll leave for greener pastures with the group's name on your resume. Things that are not as important: How smart you are. Sure they grill you with technical questions, but there's a lot of other things they're testing like composure under pressure, how quick you are on your feet, and the depth of your knowledge of accounting and finance. What's not important is being a Genius. This isn't Sales and Trading, and there's a reason junior staff are referred to as monkies. edit: Also a clarification that confused me for quite some time. Merill Lynch is an investment bank. What distinguishes an investment bank from a Saving and Loan is it does not take deposits. An investment bank's typical "front office" aka revenue generating lines of business include investment banking services, trading (Stuff like Market Making), stock brokers, and extending and buying/selling loans of all shapes and formats such as the ones that sunk them in the crisis (I clearly don't know a lot about this and would appreciate someone closer to the markets and with more knowledge of how ibanks work to step in). The investment banking we're talking about is the investment bank advisory groups based in these banks. Investment banking groups serve as the bankers to corporate clients, representing them in corporate transactions such as mergers and acquisitions (M&A) or private placements (say an owner of a multi-million dollar business wants to shell his share in the business, or for some reason you want to sell some debt or equity without a public auction), as well as assisting them in accessing the capital markets and issuing bonds or stocks (IPO). In my case my clients are local and state governments instead of corporations. These groups are either organized by industry or product. Thus you'll see some groups that focus on the retail industry and assist or outsource help from a more focused group in all of the possible transactions, while others only do M&A deals or leveraged buy outs ("LBOs", where a private equity group buys a company, borrowing a great deal against this company to finance the transaction, and then uses the proceeds from that company to pay off the debt. Think of a mortgage or Man U. if you're a sports fan). This is a very simple overview and ignores a lot of the complex derivatives sophisticated corporations use and a lot of the structured products and debt that generated some of the fastest money and were most essential to the massive losses a lot of Wall Street took. edit2: You should read the wikipedia page on investment banks and also understand the history of the industry, especially Glass Steagall Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Jan 27, 2011 |
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Jan 27, 2011 21:39
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^I think your best bet is networking. Become chums with your clients and hope/ask one to offer you a job. edit: Fines Doubled posted:Since I was a dumb rear end I didn't do any internships, I realize this is huge black mark against me. I just got a job with Chase as a personal banker. Is this type of experience going to be at all relevant? What should I do make myself into an attractive candidate? Business school. Unless you land an entry-level analyst gig there's not a lot of room for jumping into the industry haphazardly. Also I don't think being a personal banker will get you an iota closer to an IBD (Investment Banking Division). edit2: If any has some good "excel shortcuts" list that they use a lot in banking/geared towards banking that they could share with me, my excel skills lag compared to the lightning speed of my associate, it'd be appreciatd. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 19:14 on Jan 28, 2011 |
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Jan 28, 2011 18:40
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Admirable Gusto posted:It's harder to generalize since there's much more variation, unlike analyst level where all banks try to hit the industry standard with a slight boutique premium. That's crazy money for what could be a 24 year old, I thought $100-150k max. Wow.
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Jan 29, 2011 18:36
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CounterRandom: There could be a separate thread for MFE programs. Princeton's is the best and highly competitive. When I was looking I also thought Vanderbilt and UCLA's program might be a bit easier but still distinguished schools/programs. You might apply to different MFE schools than I would have, as they vary greatly in how technical the programs are and what kind of math background you have. An analysis/calc heavy background would let you apply to a greater range of schools. I know for example that for Cornell, you apply to the general masters of engineering program and then specialize. You should also look for job opportunities that compliment your strength. I recall when I was interviewing around that the engineering background students often ended up in technical areas like healthcare, biotech, and emerging technologies in general because those bankers and their analysts need to understand what the company does and how it does it. Also I think you'll find the consensus for more quant heavy job seekers is you'll get more techy interview questions that fit your background, but are still expected to have a vague understanding of how to find free cash flows, how to discount a future cash flow, and the major financial statements and how they connect. If you really have no accounting/finance background maybe a community or university class or two might help. edit: Vault guide. And maybe some of Wallstreetoasis' ibanking and questions guides. It adds up fast see if you can find friends with the files. Now that I think about it I might still have a few let me check...
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Jan 30, 2011 21:49
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Mr. WTF posted:Not sure if you are still reading, but I'm an managing director with a boutique tech focused M&A shop. Here's a quick version of today: What would you say are the main ways you spend time driving in new business? How would you say you divide your time between managing the staff and progress of the work in your office, talking with the existing clients, and soliciting new ones?
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Feb 4, 2011 01:00
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Mandalay posted:Would a hypothetical analyst who worked twice as fast as an average analyst get to go home early in banking? “Everyone wants to be a bodybuilder, but no one wants to life heavy-rear end weight!”-Ron Coleman. No. You move at the speed and whim of those above you and the clients involved in the deals you're on. Very often you are simply waiting for revisions and updates to the materials you're responsible for to be returned from those more senior than you. edit: If this thread is about investment banks in general, I'd appreciate someone with more experience with the internal workings of a major bank giving a little information. How does a loan go from a small regional bank to a part of a structured product? What are some of the major ways ibanks loan money? Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Feb 4, 2011 |
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Feb 4, 2011 20:25
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Oh ya, for everyone applying, almost every 1st round interview will want you to show an interest in the company and industry you're applying for. Double if it's a phone interview. Almost every phone interview I've had was mostly "tell me what you know about the position" and basically show you did your homework. Read the job description. Learn about the particular line of work they're in. Search the news for transactions the team has done. Read their website. One time I was applying to a small boutique that had international transactions listed and mentioned how I thought it'd be a plus to work with teams in different countries. What do you know the person I was interviewing with worked in Tokyo and Brazil and was huge on international transactions. J.P. Morgan asked me who their CEO was. Get a feel for the character of the history of your industry, and what your city specializes in. I'm in Los Angeles, so for me this means knowing Michael Milken, Ken Moelis and Navid Mahmoodzadegan and DLJ, then Credit Suisse's purchase of DLJ and Moelis' move to UBS, where he built one of the biggest ibanking presences in the U.S. for UBS, and then starting his own bank with Moelis. Credit Suisse also has a major office in LA. Los Angeles is primarily real estate/entertainment/retail/gaming (Vegas casinos), while San Francisco is Tech (Silicon Valley)/sponsors (sponsors is a finance word for "those who work with private equity shops", SF has a lot of high finance and buy-side firms, and traditional private equity requires borrowing lots of risky debt against a project).
Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Feb 10, 2011 |
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Feb 10, 2011 03:13
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Admirable Gusto posted:I don't think it's possible to judge how a firm/particular office is before you actually work there. Even your friends at the firm are going to have their recruiting hats on when they talk about their job, and they will at the very least try hard to spin things in a positive way. As for your experiences meeting people when you interview, you should bear in mind that any middle to upper level investment bankers that you meet have been selected for their ability to smooth talk clients. Nor are rumors particularly trustworthy - they are often ridiculously out of date, if not flat out wrong. Not that it makes a huge difference, but I disagree. I don't consider myself unusually perceptive, but a dinner or 2nd round of interviews should tell you a lot about the personalities and culture of the group and the people within it. I've talked to a lot of analysts and associates I wouldn't want to work closely with, and met MDs and such you can tell are ruthless and miserable to work under. Also who interviews you don't necessarily give you insight, a lot of internships and entry-level interviews I went on were mostly analysts/associates interviewing you as that's who you'd be working with directly. But then again it's very clear Admiral Gusto was highly sought after, the majority of you will be chasing after employers not the other way around, it's very much an employer's market right now unless you're a hot shot.
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Feb 12, 2011 00:52
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Mr. WTF posted:Someone brought up basics in interview questions, here's one I always ask in case it helps. It's incredibly easy, but I'm sure a lot of M&A guys ask it, and I throw people out (politely) if they miss it... I don't think this is a good question. Everyone who answers this right read and memorized the answer in an interview guide, this question is in every one. No kid is actually going to sit there and realize all by himself in those 20 seconds that you can take the balance sheet and income statement and recreate cash flows. The only reasonable explanation would be if he/she learned this in his/her accounting class, I know I was able to answer this because a homework assignment had been to actually do this. To me questions like this test if you did your homework and gave the interview the necessary amount of preparation, which will translate to how well you'll do your job. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Feb 18, 2011 |
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Feb 18, 2011 01:32
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Hobologist posted:Technically don't you need a beginning and ending balance sheet? The balance sheet as a financial statement is commonly understood to be a typical one with multiple years, you need the beginning and ending balances to determine the changes in the various accounts to figure out the changes in working capital and investing and financing accounts in making the cash flow. But yes a balance sheet is a snapshot of a specific moment versus an income statement which is for a period of time.
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Feb 18, 2011 04:22
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The Lord of Hats posted:So... I'm a freshman (as-yet undeclared major) at a different private school in Minnesota (St. John's), and while I know that I find finance to be really interesting, I'm completely unsure about how I should be working towards the goal of getting hired into the industry. Economics really has nothing to do with banking, pursue accounting. Find internships in private wealth or something your sophomore summer, apply for summer internships in the winter of your junior year.
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Mar 5, 2011 21:20
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Bobx66 posted:So which PE Firms or Hedge Funds do real estate? Is it pretty much hopeless to try to find a job outside of Manhattan? Come to Socal/LA, the home of speculative real estate. Also what do you mean "do real estate". You're looking for a hedge fund that trades actively in real estate? Not sure they exist. A private equity firm that does real estate company deals? Maybe. If you want to be in the asset side, you're mostly looking at finding work for an investment fund that has a REIT or a commercial real estate shop. A lot of big banks have commercial real estate analyst programs, where the group buys distressed/cheap real estate for portfolios and you get a lot of debt structuring and calculating internal rates of return project finance kind of experience. A REIT is an investment fund where there's a pool of properties you're investing in. If you want to work on the debt side, there's a whole host of jobs from the guy who approves loans, to wholesale purchasers who purchase the loans off the banks books, to the securitization where these loans are bundled into financial product word soup (these are a lot of what crashed in the recession and hasn't really recovered). edit: Studying for and passing the CFA level 1 is an extra step that's often viewed favorably by bankers recruiting for analyst/associate entry-level positions, it's something that became a lot more common as the competition for these jobs heated up. I'm not sure how much it'll help you make the actual transition. edit2: I'm not sure why I write like that, it's still pretty extreme that poo poo isn't easy. edit3: Commercial real estate is it's own industry. The bigger the group or real estate company, the more acquisition work you'll do, to the point you can be an acquisition analyst like I mentioned in a big bank shop or someone like CB Ellis . In a smaller place you'll do a lot of the maintenance and administration of their existing properties Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Mar 25, 2011 |
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Mar 23, 2011 20:41
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I don't work for a big bank and have no idea about that dynamic. I get PMs. I have a question for everyone: In the course of arguing over the labor lockout in the NFL over in TFF, I found a Forbes report showing Forbes' estimates were for high positive EBITDA's for almost all NFL teams. Someone challenged me, saying because it's impossible to estimate depreciation, there's no way Forbes could make any close estimates of a private company's EBITDA. I replied this is exactly why depreciation is one of the items excluded in EBITDA. He replied you need to estimate depreciation because you calculate EBITDA by taking EBIT and adding DA back. I replied this was a useless route seeing as the teams don't publish their financials and the only way Forbes could be estimating this is a top down analysis of revenues minus expenses that aren't ITDA. Who's right. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Mar 24, 2011 |
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Mar 24, 2011 23:05
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So the consensus is that Forbes' estimates of private companies earnings are not accurate or realistic because of these difficulties? I'm not looking at the long-term value of a team, I'm asking how close you can to estimating a team/any private companies' EBITDA/profit for any given year.
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Mar 24, 2011 23:38
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Summer analyst in what? Is this an hour door to door or an hour train ride? If you're working in some non IB job where its like 8 to 6 or 7 weekdays I think you could do it, but if you're working 8 to 10 or midnight and weekends I think it'd be a mistake. Do you have PMs, I'm pretty familiar with NYC suburbs and the commute having grown up in Connecticut. edit: I might add summer in NYC is quite the experience. There has to be tens of thousands of young college aged people living there for the summer in various summer programs/classes/internships/training programs. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Apr 5, 2011 |
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Apr 4, 2011 19:51
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roflcopter thief posted:I am soon going to be graduating college, having majored in Physics and minored in Math. My in-major GPA is somewhere around a 3.6 or 3.7, with my general GPA around 3.4-3.5. I am fluent in 3 languages (looks good on a resume?), and am the president of my school's Society of Physics Students. Going to be a little more negative. You don't go to a target school (a school where recruiters come to you), your GPA is low and would probably disqualify you at a target school, and you want a full-time job without any prior internships or summers in banking or finance in general. In this economy this isn't going to cut it. You're fortunate in that you're more attractive to employers then a liberal-arts major, and have the background to do an additional set of more quantitative finance jobs. If you're not going to stick to physics, I'd look into getting into real estate or wealth management in some analytical capacity if you want to get a job straight of college in the business realm. There's also masters in finance and financial engineering if you want to spend some more time in school, but others early in the thread have said the job market is rough there too.
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Apr 23, 2011 00:07
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Congrats. I'm guessing SPG is structured products group? That was actually what I wanted to do before I realized how hosed I was. I loved the problem solving element of it. On how to be a good intern, my take on it has always been to make people like you on a personal level. Do good work, don't be incompetent, pay attention to small details and double check everything, but most importantly realize it's just a longer interview. In general, I think people would rather work with someone they like 60 hours a week then work with someone that's slightly better at the job but lacks social skills. This might be less visible/present in ST groups, but IB groups are often large frats for adults. I personally follow baseball even though I can't stand the sport because of this, and brushed up on my golf and basketball (I'm 6'7" and there's a super competitive banker's league and I suck). I have a question for everyone. I was reading about the Greece bond crisis and it said yields were 23%. What does that roughly mean bonds are trading at? 30, 40 cents on the dollar?
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May 5, 2011 23:05
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forum id posted:i have a question why the hell would you want to do any of this crap and how do you sleep at night. mods? The way I see it, every "white-collar" job that's massively profitable, finance, law, and to a lesser extent medicine, has evolved a culture of long hours. I think it's because as a group in a service industry, if you want to increase profits, you need to work your existing employees harder. The reason you don't hire twice the employees is because this is a service industry and each employee needs to have a good pedigree, as people will only pay you millions to middle man a transaction if you're from Harvard, not the local community college. And of course, since the industries are so lucrative and require sitting in an office or at a desk, a lot of people want to pursue it and are willing to work harder and harder. And I sleep like a baby. You try working 12 or 14 hours a day and going to the gym every day. edit: Also for clarification, investment banking in general is not a morally questionable service. Investment banking groups assist large corporate and in my case municipal entities in accessing the capital market and borrowing money through stocks, bonds, and other instruments, often at their behest. While there is a degree of risk when you underwrite securities, the process in which you hand them cash and they hand you the instruments for sale to investors, I have never heard of an investment banking group posting a serious loss. In terms of the securities we bring to market, we help issue stocks and bonds not the products that led to the crash. These were investments in real estate and structured products based on mortgage debt, and more attributable to the structured products divisions and principal/prop units that invested the big bank's money into these products and debt. Even if everyone here doesn't work in investment banking, it's unlikely they had a role in anything related to the recent crash. edit2: Except leveraged finance people (the bankers to private equity groups, which buy a company and take it private using a great deal of debt, cut costs everywhere including personnel to squeeze out more cash, and use the profits to pay off the debt, and then eventually sell it once they've gained equity or take it public and take the ipo money), that all kinda seems evil in my mind. It's other groups in the investment banks, such as those who packaged and sold the alphabet soup of structured products based on various debts and mortgages and the principal and prop units who Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 03:54 on May 23, 2011 |
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May 23, 2011 00:00
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Ya just generally, it's the front office people that work "hellish" hours. The support positions tend to be appropriately shifted and good well paying jobs, though you might work a little more than 40 hours.
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Jun 1, 2011 06:21
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Ya but I mean the bank realizes the quality is going down and continues to buy and merrily package them, slicing it up and waveing their finance fingers to get AAA ratings and the like. The nice thing about this is everyone gets to claim innocence, as they're just a middleman to the investor who will ultimately beary responsibility, but the banks were certainly a wiling partner and enabler in the massive explosion of securitized real estate backed products. Before this industry blew up originators had no one to pass off their loans on, it was the bankers who came in, bought the loans, and figured out how to slice and dice them to get good ratings, market them, and sold them to investors.
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Jun 13, 2011 08:17
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My quick generic guide to breaking in from a non-target would be: 1. Go to events at the nearest target school near you. Travel hours if necessary. 2. Cold call/e-mail individuals or follow up with people you've met and ask incredible questions. Your passion for the industry must be clear and the person should end the call willing to go to bat for you. 3. Be fortunate Real answer: 1. Know someone. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Jun 19, 2011 |
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Jun 18, 2011 01:36
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Anyone here use Bloomberg regularly? Just got my hands on it and want to know how to do cool poo poo, like look at Greece's debt profile.
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Jul 4, 2011 00:37
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lizardking posted:So I work at a boutique advisory firm as a financial analyst. I kind of like working only roughly 35 hours a week(though I have and don't mind working up to 100 hours a week) and the pay isn't bad for 4 months out of college. Anyone got any career advice? I'm thinking I'm going to sign up for the June CFA level 1 exam. I just don't really know what paths I could take after all of that. Should I stay where I am at until I have the CFA designation and then reevaluate or try to jump ship to a larger hedge fund / BB / etc after two years. I'm fairly clueless and don't have anyone to really ask. Little background is I double majored in mathematics and economics and you can probably guess what school I went to. I had no internship because well lets just blame it on being lazy and the whole market crisis occurring when I was looking for an internship. Thank you. Whatsup future business school buddy.
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Aug 30, 2011 21:40
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wescreweleven posted:I graduated in May from a non-target (but well-regarded) school with a bachelor's in economics, but a low GPA. I had internships on the buy side, and want to break into the financial world full-time somehow, preferably buy side or PE. I am pretty well connected, and other than the GPA my resume is solid (I think). Any tips? My cover letter skills are unpolished, but I write well. I'm willing to do almost anything to get in at the ground level somewhere. This is a really hard situation. Stay on your school's job board and keep spamming resumes. This is the time when I'd really try and think of every contact you and your parents have, and looking for your alumni directory and cold-calling. I'm not sure what else you can do. If you don't find something you might have to consider a masters program that would allow you to recruit again. edit: And also, be realistic. You've already graduated, have a low GPA, and went to a non-target. Do you really think you're going to happen into one of those rare PE/buy-side analyst positions? Most PE jobs out of college are cold-calling anyway. Your best bet might be a small real estate investment company helping with their existing properties and helping do the diligence and analysis on potential acquisitions. edit2: Also calling everyone you worked with during your "internships on the buy side" for anything they can give you. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Sep 10, 2011 |
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Sep 10, 2011 03:52
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Thoogsby posted:Yeah I think I'm starting to see the writing on the wall. I may not even go for Summer Analyst positions and try to work my way into something like the GE Financial Management Program. Pretty sure FMP is more competitive than your run of the mill bulge bracket regional office. edit: And a word on the FT process. Given the backlog of qualified candidates, you really only have a shot if you did a good ibanking summer stint or are a Rhode scholar. I know most of the FT hiring at UCLA even last year was done laterally and informally before the school year even started, as it's completely an employer's market. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Sep 29, 2011 |
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Sep 29, 2011 19:29
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Hoops posted:I have a question about day-to-day speech in the industry. This will probably come across as stupid, but how do people pronounce acronyms like EBITDA? Do they spell it out in speech? Eee Bit Dah. My take is to ere on the side of formality, especially if you have no experience in a group applying these concepts where the lingo is used. You look a bit presumptuous throwing around the slang before you've worked in the industry. It sounds a bit silly to say "one of the three methods of valuation is to prepare a comp", while I would feel comfortable saying "at my old job I spread comps for the tech industry related to this transaction". Higher ed is a bubble in a sense the rises in tuition have outpaced inflation while the returns dropped precipitously since the recession. However, I'm not sure it'll ever pop like a real bubble should, the law job market has been brutalized while applications were only down 10% or so. For the higher ed to be a bubble it would require a pop, such as a dramatic reduction in applications and subsequently tuition because people realized it's not worth the investment anymore, which I don't see happening. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Oct 13, 2011 |
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Oct 13, 2011 06:04
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http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/forums/ebitda-vs-operating-cash-flow-vs-free-cash-flow More thorough than I could ever be, and now working in public finance for the past year I've forgotten my corporate accounting. quote:The key difference between EBITDA and CF from Ops is the Change in Net Working Capital So yes. quote:^^^ That, plus the most expensive schools will be able to maintain those prices. Actually I'd wager that most places will be able to maintain current pricing, except maybe for-profit schools or the most marginal public schools where there simply aren't a dozen applicants who would love to take the place of the person who drops out because they can't afford it. I had the same thought. Even internet stalwarts like Amazon took a hit when the tech bubble burst, http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:AMZN I don't ever see this happening for Harvard business/law school. Higher ed in general may not be a bubble, but certain sectors such as for-profit online schools and bottom tier law schools could see a burst if the recession lingers and the message really gets out these degrees are useless. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Oct 13, 2011 |
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Oct 13, 2011 08:44
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What kind of work/life balance does the FMP program pretend to have? I was under the impression it was almost equally demanding as a run of the mill banking gig. A FT offer in hand is a lot to turn down.
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Oct 29, 2011 00:08
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I went into the MBA thread and they were all "why do you want to go to business school" blah blah blah. Uh because I want a two year vacation, network with future rich people, and try and find a cooler job? Apparently you can't write this in an essay?
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Nov 5, 2011 08:15
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tolerabletariff posted:Law school is an awful idea. Unless you go to a top (and I mean tippy-top) program, BigLaw is out of the question. Even they pretty much didn't bring on any associates in the past cycle, or so I heard. Visit the Law School thread in this same sub-forum. It will appropriately depress you. The job market is massively over-saturated. They will tell you don't get a JD unless you want to be a lawyer. With that said transactional law is pretty close to banking, you are the middle man legal stamper instead of the middle man finance person. I work in public finance, investment banking for governments, and my boss worked in the law side and transitioned over to the banking side very well due to all her relationships and intimate knowledge of the field. If you graduate with NOTHING and have no other options and think you can get in to a top five law school MAYBE it's worth pursuing. I would still take a nonbanking job that uses excel/analytic skills/your brain and go back to business school when the economy is better. Law school sucks, law students and lawyers suck, and Biglaw sucks the worst, especially if all you really wanted to do was finance. You will incur 200k of debt studying arcane torts law for a slim to bad chance at a brutal soul crushing job in transaction law. Also raise your hand if you're working through Thanksgiving. Not that glamorous. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Nov 24, 2011 |
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Nov 24, 2011 03:35
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2banks1swap.avi posted:Before I finally fall asleep, the big thing I'm not sure about is if I should study stats, econ, finance - or if it even really matters. I should have been more clear about it. Banking is a lot of accounting with a little finance theory. Study this. Econ and stats are largely irrelevant to corporate finance.
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Jan 9, 2012 08:07
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tolerabletariff posted:I need some help, have a bunch of pfs due like a week ago and its for an independent study with an engineering prof so he can't help. I think you should back it out as a non-cash expense, I'm not quite following your other reasoning. If you incurred another non-cash expense in the generation of revenue would you not treat it the same way? quote:Operating Cash Flow may be defined differently by different people. I know someone whom I greatly respect who defines OCF without including trade revenues or trade expenses. Including them in calculating OCF may change OCF in a given year due to timing differences of revenue and expense recognition, but inclusion of trade revenues and trade expenses is part of GAAP http://www.charleswarner.us/articles/ReadingFinancialReports.htm In http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...UCNea8rf22hAX_A It is included in supplemental disclosure and in the liabilities section. Look how they handle it. I think it's pretty clear I don't really know what I'm talking about here but maybe some of these resources help, I'm not quite following you. Why would trade revenue be counted as cash? Why isn't it just revenue? I have a job question. I'm recruiting for a number of jobs on various time lines, some several months apart. Specifically, I have a few offers coming in the next few days and am just starting a process with GE Capital on a timeline that could take months. How long do you have to stay at one job before you leave for another to the point it's disrespectful. Three months? Six? Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Jan 9, 2012 |
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Jan 9, 2012 08:33
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edit: Question answered.
Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Jan 10, 2012 |
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Jan 10, 2012 10:39
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Primetime posted:Just wondering if anyone in the industry has any idea how much experience is valued vs. education in getting IB jobs. I'm a junior currently interviewing/setting up interviews for summer analyst internships middle-market IB's with the intention to get into sell-side M&A. Even though my school has a strong finance department it is a non-target school, no major banks have campus interviews here, so all of my interviews have been set up through networking or applying through websites. Most of the places I'm applying to only have campus interviews at Ivy League colleges. I'd say experience trumps education as long as you can get an interview. Once you're in the interview room, your transaction experience will make you stand out versus some kid who hasn't lifted a finger who goes to a better school. As people have said, the problem will be getting these interviews if ibanks don't recruit at your school. I believe the consensus is that once you're accepted for an interview, they generally acknowledge you're capable of doing the job. It's now about showing your dedication to finance, your hard-working and detail oriented nature, your finance theory and financial market knowledge, and your ability to think on your feet. Your experience should help you with most of these, especially with behavioral interviews where you can point to group projects you worked on and obstacles you faced in a finance team environment. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jan 25, 2012 |
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Jan 25, 2012 21:08
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air- posted:Mostly just trying to figure out what exactly I'm getting into and what technical areas that I need to prep for the interview. I'm sure I have a lot of work to do. I work as a bank examiner right now, we're basically similar to the FDIC but our agency is much smaller. I graduated with a finance degree from a non-target school, and so did my classmate/contact at this firm. The main thing I'm curious about : how is this analyst work different than working in banking and other than the difference in work/life balance, what makes it so appealing? From what I can tell it still involves building models, performing due diligence/industry research. Does this line of work offer an opportunity to gain deeper exposure to a variety of businesses/business models compared to banking? You'll want to be familiar with the LBO valuation technique, backing into a value based on a desired return. It's primarily more appealing because it's more lucrative. You can make anywhere from 250-500k after two years of banking in PE, which is crazy money for a 24 year old. As to if it gives you deeper or wider exposure, it all depends on what you did in banking. If you were in a retail group you'll now be doing all industries, but if you were in lev fin or another product group it'll be the same? At the top level it's more appealing from a creativity standpoint, you're designing and choosing the deals and how to improve the targets versus pitching, advising, and rubber stamping for someone else. I can't really speculate how different it is at the junior level. I assume some of this creativity trickles down and you have a greater amount of responsibility/input in strategizing and choosing targets. Instead of finding a defensible valuation for someone else's deal you're figuring out how much your company should offer. I would guess there's a bit of a management component in how to optimize earnings and cash flows that you don't see in banking. Most importantly you answer to yourself and your colleagues not an insane client. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Feb 3, 2012 |
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Feb 3, 2012 05:07
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I'm not really sure what you're clarifying, we got that you worked in not banking and know what a PE analyst does. Reading the description it seems they're a PE firm that specializes in broker team/firms, so your experience might be more relevant. You might want to talk to some stock brokers or read up on it so you understand how compensation works at a broker level and from a high level perspective.
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Feb 3, 2012 07:14
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air- posted:That information about risk allocation and portfolio modeling is really good to know. I initally wasn't sure how to show that my prior experience may apply (and why It's Miller Time said that), but I'm starting to see the relevance. Thank you! Much of my examination experience involves evaluating the adequacy of risk management and controls. I also did a PWM management internship and got exposure to risk allocation with individual client holdings. The M stands for management. I was speaking to the difference in industries for someone going from banking to PE. Your experience assessing the risk management sturdiness in financial institutions will be relevant given they invest in PE firms investing in brokerage teams and other wealth management groups, talk about how you could help in picking firms that are investing in banks and teams with sound strategies and controls that won't explode in the next recession cycle. As Mr. WTF said well and I missed this is a fund of funds, so it's a different skill set. The compensation isn't in the same ballpark, you can only squeeze so much in the middle after the firms take their 2/20 and make their millions. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Feb 4, 2012 |
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Feb 4, 2012 05:30
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Accepted a new job with a team that does valuation opinions and strategic/m&a advisory for entertainment clients. Lots of modeling/valuation, sane hours, and banking pay, pretty excited.
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Feb 17, 2012 11:29
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Socialism posted:Go read IYG threads on phones. I'd recommend an iPhone on verizon because you'll probably get a lovely AT&T blackberry, and iPhone has infinitely more finance-friendly apps than Android, and it's more reliable. What are some of these apps, I have an iphone and don't have any finance related ones. Besides Bloomberg news/index prices. Ravarek, consider real estate. My friend works for a large commercial real estate acquirer doing all the modeling, works reasonable hours, and has a lot of good exit opportunities into real estate PE. And if you want to get into hedge funds trading has sane hours based around the market, though it's a tough industry to get into right now given all the desks that are closing or reducing risk. Also almost all these jobs are in NY, so if your school doesn't get recruited from Wall Street you're facing an uphill battle. edit: Spent the weekend skiing with a bunch of MS SF tech bankers (one of the premier tech teams in the country). They all did 5-6 hours of work after the slopes each day. They said they work 120 hours a week easy. I can't fathom that. Its Miller Time fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Feb 21, 2012 |
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Feb 21, 2012 00:46
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Clothing chat! Starting a new job Monday. Just went to Rochester B&T (6'6" 220) and got a bunch of tailored Ralph Lauren and Michael Kors pants. Also got this watch as a gift: http://www.michaelkors.com/store/ca...Editorial=false Also echoing "dry clean all work clothes". It makes casual work clothes look more professional.
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Feb 28, 2012 18:42
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