Combat Sports - General Q and A thread: Why are these fights so boring?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > Combat Sports - General Q and A thread: Why are these fights so boring?

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

That K1 OP could use a little filling out.

First, every K1 thread ever should include whats probably the best description of K1 I have ever read.

duncan posted:

For those not in the know, K-1 is the product of a consortium of Japanese criminals who spent a lot of money scouring the world for the finest athletes to answer the age old question: just how tall or fat does a man have to be to make a fight between him and a top class kickboxer boring?

Then, post all of this goodness here.

dunc, like forever ago posted:

10 great fights:

Badr Hari vs. Errol Zimmerman - This contains the coolest knockdown and the loudest punch you will ever hear.

Badr Hari vs. Ruslan Karaev 2 - A theme emerges.

Jerome Le Banner vs. Sam Greco 2 - Greco is one of the forgotten guys, he was really fun to watch, but most people nowadays basically remember him because he fought Machida once.

Jerome Le Banner vs. Mark Hunt 3 - This fight was hosed up by vaseline, and until his disasterous "comeback" was the only time Hunt was stopped in K-1. Stopped by vaseline. Coitus note: For a lot of new people Mark Hunt might be some fat dude who can't finish an Americana and sued his way to a UFC fight but for years he was an absolute beast in K1, completely iron chin.

Gokhan Saki vs. Ruslan Karaev (Part 2) - Of all the new guys, I think Saki and Zimmerman really stand out. Saki has a great style and fantastic leg kicks.

Erneston Hoost vs. Rob Kaman - This didn't actually take place in K-1, but it's great nontheless and most people are accustomed to Kaman the trainer, so it's interesting too.

Ernesto Hoost vs. Andy Hug 2 - Andy Hug ruled

Xhavit Bajrami vs. Mirko "CroCop" Filipovic - After Andy Hug's death, Bajrami promised he would become a K-1 champion. And he did. Then he was forgotten about. I can't even find the full fight anymore but I remember liking it. Coitus Note: I tried to find it too, but no dice.

Andy Hug vs. Mirko "CroCop" Filipovic (part 2) - He would die of Leukemia only 2 months later.

I cut out the last fight because it sucked and gently caress Cyril Abidi, if you want to see it find it yourself. :colbert:

dunc, continued posted:

10 great knockouts:

Mark Hunt vs. Jerome Le Banner 2 - The only one of the 4 he would ever win, but he went on to claim the title that year.

Jerome Le Banner vs. Ernesto Hoost 1 - Proving that you don't need leg kicks to chop someone down like a tree

Remy "The Flying Gentleman" Bonjasky vs. Vernon White - Even if you don't think you've seen this, you probably have. It's beautiful.

Jeroma Le Banner vs. Francisco Filho - My favourite KO ever. In any sport.

Glaube Feitosa vs. Alex Roberts - Feitosa has the prettiest kicks ever.

Peter Graham vs. Badr Hari - Rolling Thunder goooo 4eva. This has stupid music but it shows you the buildup which is part of why it owned so much. Coitus note: replaced the broken original youTube with the whole fight which is certainly worth it

Ray Sefo vs. Jerome Le Banner - This broke his jaw in 3 or 4 places, one of the unfortunate hallmarks of K-1 is that basically everybody has been put out bad several times. Coitus note: gently caress Ray Sefo.

Stefan Leko vs. Badr Hari 1 - Speaking of broken jaws Coitus note: I have no idea if this is the fight duncan wanted, they fought twice and I don't remember anyone having their jaw broken, I think duncan might have meant the Peter Graham fight because the rolling thunder absolutely shattered Hari's jaw. I picked the first one because Hari lost and gently caress him

Peter Aerts vs. Rob van Esdonk - Aerts has a million high kick KO's, but aesthetically this is my favourite

Ernesto Hoost vs. Mo Smith 1 - Ditto for Hoost.

Coitus_Interruptus posted:

Then duncan posted some curiosities but I'm also skipping those. I'm sure if you ask he will post them again.

So since duncan admittedly focused on the Heavyweights I'm going to focus on MAX, which I believe is the premiere product that K1 has to offer, and as soon as everyone else figures it out, MAX 63kg is going to rad as all hell.

Albert Kraus was the first MAX Champion but while he is always a threat and a really good fighter he is out-shined by a lot of stars in the division, so instead of trying to track down his forgetable MAX 2002 run just enjoy him beating the poo poo out of an Anime

He's still competitive but I think his last two outstanding performances where against Yatsuhiro Kido and Mike Zambidis

My favorite fight though is hands down when fellow MAX Champ Buakaw Por. Pramuk and he went all out in an amazing 4 round fight to see who would advance to the Final 8 for the 2008 MAX.

Masato would be the next MAX Winner in 2003 beating defending champ Albert Kraus Hope you like Masato because after losing the stupid loving haircut he rocked in AJKF we got to see a whole lot of him.

He managed to take a second title in 2008 beating the finest son in the universe Artur Kyshenko before retiring in 2009 after giving us one last amazing fight against fellow Champion and the only fighter to beat him he had yet to get revenge on Andy Souwer. Masato and Souwer gave us one hell of a fight as a parting gift.

I wish I could stop talking about Masato but he really was that important.
He got revenge on Kohi and had amazing fights against pretty much the entire cream of the K1 Max Roster. Like Yoshihiro Sato in 2008 or Kid Yamamoto, Mike Zambidis and Gago Drago The only MAX Champion Masato hasn't beaten is Giorgo Petrosyan because he retired (maybe out of fear)

You hear a lot of bad things against Masato, and for years I referred to him, and occasionally still do, as a human being. First because he wore ridiculously gay poo poo into the ring and also because he acted like a smug oval office and girls liked him a lot. Also K1 cheated like motherfuckers for him gave him unwarranted extended rounds to keep him in tournaments and changed the loving rules to protect him. All that said I still miss the Silver Wolf.

And this is why K1 had to change the rules to protect their golden boy The third Max Chamption and possibly my favorite MAX Final run of all time. Buakaw Por Pramuk. A multiple Stadium Champ in Thailand Buakaw came in and so completely dominated both Kohi and Masato in the clinch that they disallowed multiple strikes from the clinch in hopes of stopping him from repeating that run. In the Final matches the judges keep giving Masato draws in hoped that he can pull of a miracle comeback. Annoyed, in the final extension round, Buakaw comes out, fucks Masato up even harder and then tosses his rear end through the ropes directly in front of the judges table.

He also had an absolutely amazing 2006 run to win a second MAX Title, the first person to ever do so beating standouts like Yoshihiro Sato Gago Drago and knocking out defending 2005 champ Andy Souwer. There's lots more Buakaw to love, so google him up in your free time.

Next to take the Max Crown was Andy Souwer who came in and hosed up Kohiruimaki almost immediately ( then did it again a year later for good measure ) He beat Buakaw In extension rounds to take his title and has been in plenty of classics.

Like this fight with Yoshihiro Sato or his absolutely awesome 2008 Qualification bout against Mike Zambidis but before that came the qualification against Orlen Laursen which started a beautifl 2007 MAX Run where he beat Gago Drago, Albert Kraus and Masato

Masato won again in 2008 but honestly that was kind of meh and lovely. The story for me was Artur Kyshenko who beat Kido and Andy Souwer Kyshenko overall is a rad kid to watch. He's had great bouts, not just the 2008 Run (which if you recall was stopped by Masato being a fag.) but against guys you might remember like Chi Bin Lim and Yoshihiro Sato

Giorgio Petrosyan just won the last MAX and it was loving scary. No fancy story here just
Kraus
Yamamoto
Souwer

Guy is a beast.

Other max dudes we love.
Yuya Yamamoto who isn't great but has a rad chin and always puts on rad fights
Also now that I posted him. Nagashima is hilarious freakshow, first he shows up and completely smokes Hayato loses to Yuya and Kraus. Then thanks to some glorious twists of fate and the sudden retirement of Taishin Kohiruimaki wins the loving Japan MAX Tournament

Sato, Kohirumaki, and Kido are all great fighters despite never becoming champs. Its true, look, duncan agrees.

Giovanni Qobras posted:

abso loving lutely

and heres a sweet informative Buakaw Superpost.

Giovanni Qobras posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJM5YvOL4P4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt2k5KOVtlo

These were both in the same night and it was his breakout performance, he fought mean and was absolutely terrifying. Kohi really cemented his reputation as a bit of a coward that night in a rerun of the Kaolan debacle, and the judges showed their colours.

He still had the hands of a Thai, but not even Masato could exploit it at that point, he was just better than everybody else. Then his hands got better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMEQYOfGBC8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rhtr_ERqLmI

These were also on the same night, it's shocking because Sato has an amazing chin and even though he was beaten up going into the fight, Souwer is probably the most consistent and well rounded kickboxer ever.

The thing is at 70kg nobody ever stays still, the level improves constantly. Buakaw sort of hit his skill ceiling and started slowing down a bit. Within a year he went from having this awesome fight with Sato:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SF0i0k7VeY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c109cnWvRQQ

to getting loving stomped by Sato and staging a comeback against guys like Black Mamba and Dida.

Buakaw's legend is kind of bigger than the man himself, he's still obviously an excellent fighter (and I thought he deserved the nod over Souwer last year) but he's very obviously slowing down and there's a lot of hyperbole surrounding the guy mostly coming from casual cheerleaders. When he retires people will give a more honest assessment of his career, but until then there's gonna be a lot of "BUAKAW IS THE BEST!!!" which was true at one point but isn't anymore.

It's crazy that he's on the downslope of his career and he's not even 30 though, Thai years are a son of a bitch

Since those posts there have been some startling and exciting developments in the world of punch-kick man (and occasionally child) fighting have occurred.

Giorgio Petrosyan won the MAX Title in 2010 becoming the first man to ever win back to back MAX titles. He made his way through Albert Kraus Mike Zambidis and Yoshihiro Sato though this impressive achievement would be overshadowed by Mike Zambidis quite possibly the best MAX fight of 2010

Alistair Overeem won the K1 Crown, but incredibly, somehow, that was a disappointment for all of us. Probably because he beat Peter Aerts, who had earlier achieved what we all thought was impossible Rocky has nothing on this poo poo, NOTHING. Sadly Alistair beat up an exhausted and damaged Aerts in the final, after having beaten an also tired and exhausted Gokhan Saki, who had also given us what, until we saw Aerts we all considered the fight of the night in this incredible display of guts and leg kicking. Which kind of muddies and sullies the victory. Still, thats the nature of the beast with tournaments.

In child fighting news, Noiri continues being incredibly awesome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQq7gZKY8KE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0kkYKVOd4o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V47K4oP7SE4

So are some other Koshien veterans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsKehDobMgI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro_RmrwHmyw

2010 K1 Koshien Champion would be Shoei Hareyama, who took the title in a real faggy way, being helped immensely by the awful awful tournament structure where he managed to avoid almost all the dangerous Koshien veterans only really having to contend with Ryosuke Sasaki. Still, good fights from the Ishida Brothers, Noiri, but most importantly importantly this:

Giovanni Qobras posted:

Ren Takeno has one eye and wears a Transformers logo on his shorts. His nickname is now Perceptor.

The final thing I want to leave you with, is K1 veteran and avid crossdresser Yoichiro "Jienotsu" Nagashima giving us all an incredible gift this past Dynamite

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ahWcGWlSZBM/TR45LqopEjI/AAAAAAAABGE/NGVQx-s4sGY/s1600/Shinya+Aoki+vs+Yuichiro.jpg

Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Feb 2, 2011

# ¿ Feb 2, 2011 11:49

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 3, 2024 00:12

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

Ziggy Tsardust posted:

And there are STILL people who think that MMA has nothing in common with wrestling.

I'd just like to say thank you for this thread. I've tried to get into MMA before but found it all a little intimidating. It looks like going through old PRRIDE stuff is best for me.

MMA and Wrestling are closely linked.

Historically speaking I mean, and one day me and CortX should tag-team a big post about the subject, the two sports are closely linked. The reality is also that stories sell and the big fights and popular fighters and the things we remember, love, and connect with. All of those are often less because of the fight and more because of the story which drives us to invest emotionally in the outcome and adds all the drama we perceive when grown men spend 20 minutes hugging each other.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2011 22:24

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

Skinty McEdger posted:

While on the subject of judges, which officals are the ones that MMA fans groan the world over when they hear they are scoring the fight?

Since you said officials this guy came immediately to mind.

Nobuaki Kakuda, affectionately known as Kakuda-san is an insufferable cheating oval office. In a sea of insufferable cheats.

He is the most "experienced" and veteran of the K1 Referee's and is constantly the main ref in big title fights. He is infamous for his horribly inconsistent application of the rules. He changes expectations about what is acceptable in the clinch, he arbitrarily waves off legitimate knockdowns, or awards them. He's been known to brag about the impact he's had on fights he has been officiating.

Apparently this doesn't count as a knockdown because... well because gently caress it.

He was such a gigantic cheating oval office that K1 themselves we're forced to ban him briefly as punishment. When the fighting organization that is infamous for cheating whenever its convenient thinks you've crossed the line. You've got a real loving problem.

I pretty much cringe whenever he is in the ring. I've lost count of how many times he has dramatically decreased the quality of fights, or flat our ruined them. gently caress Kakuda right to death.

Skinty McEdger posted:

While on the subject of judges, which officals are the ones that MMA fans groan the world over when they hear they are scoring the fight?

The problem is two fold really. Firstly yes, there are a great deal of officials who are not as familiar with the sport as they should be particularly when it comes to fighting on the ground. This causes some poor decisions on occasions where a fighter has been dominant, or the far better performer, in what is typically not the most dominant of positions. For example a grappler who wants to go to the ground and pulls guard, and spends a whole round threatening a submission, might lose to the guy on top throwing a few punches from the dominant position.

The biggest problem though lies with the 10 point must system borrowed from boxing. Judges are incredibly hesitant to give rounds other than 10-9's and without clear "knockdowns" for them to score, there is no way to reward extremely dominant rounds for the clearly superior fighter. Combined with the fact that, there are only 3, and at most 5 rounds and you've got a big problem. Its a terrible system and has far more to do with the slew of terrible decisions than judges themselves do.

Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Feb 2, 2011

# ¿ Feb 2, 2011 23:44

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

projecthalaxy posted:

Nobuaki screwed Alistair?

It should have been
10-9 Alistair,
10-8 Alistair,
10-8 Remy.

It was
10 all
10 all
10-8 Remy

If Kakuda had scored the knockdown it would have been

10-10
10-8
10-8

(extension round)

So both he and the judges. The judges first robbed Alistair, giving "draw" rounds to rounds he clearly won. When Alistair scored a knockdown, which would have forced the judges to give an extension round, Kakuda waved it away. It was basically a team effort.

Its important to remember that at the time, Alistair had knocked our Badr Hari and K1 and FEG where still promoting the idea that Alistair was the big evil, MMA outsider coming in to sully the pride and honor of K1 and that Remy alone could defend it.

Now they love him. Pretty wild.

Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Feb 2, 2011

# ¿ Feb 2, 2011 23:54

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

Because Shogun looked the more impressive and dominant fighter. Its an example of the kind of aberrations the 10 point must system produces. Machida won three incredibly close rounds, and individually you can't complain about that, but Shogun was the more impressive fighter in the rounds that he won and emotionally people want him to win, so they concoct justifications for it and get butt-hurt. Machida won, I even thought so, but people don't think he deserved it as much.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2011 00:18

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

Lets just agree, the only thing Texans are good at is pretending they know "authentic" Mexican food because they live kind of close and once had a Chimichanga.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2011 00:31

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

fatherdog posted:

If K-1 is gonna decide that knockdown vs Remy didn't count because he was kicking at the time, then Buakaw should have another win vs Masato and another win vs Kraus.

Word, you might not think its a knockdown, and thats fine. The issue there is that Kakuda, and the rest of the K1 Refs regularly reward knockdowns for exactly the same kind of blows on a regular basis.

Even if the knockdown didn't count. It should have been 10-9 the first two rounds for Alistair, taking the fight to extended rounds.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2011 00:41

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

KungFu Grip posted:

What do most of you guys think of the articles/list about MMA matches and fighters from Seanbaby on Cracked?

Trash. There is a great deal to make fun of int he world of MMA, and we do it frequently but Seanbaby especially chooses the most idiotic hyperbolic, 8 year old ways of making fun of the sport. Its not very funny to me.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2011 01:13

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

Jack Anderson posted:

Anderson Silva sounds like my kind of fighter. I'll try to pick up the PPV and catch the prelims on Saturday.

You know what I would love, and I hope no one is offended by this at all, but I would love a nice big post about why I should care about wrestling. I know its about stories and drama, and thats pretty much what I love about combat sports. In combat sports though, the drama, the human stories, that all comes out as a consequence of the real competition happening inside the ring or octagon. As a fan of combat sports I become invested in the outcome of an authentic contest and I don't get how people do the same in a sport where its common knowledge that the outcomes are part of a larger dramatization.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2011 04:30

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

jeffersonlives posted:

Pro wrestling can be really good when it's done well, it's just not done well all the time (or even much at all these days IMO).

I don't doubt it, I just want a nice post that shows me that, shows me what there is to enjoy in the product.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2011 04:35

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

I think he's prone to letting fighters take far more damage than is necessary but is very good at other decisions.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2011 05:23

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

Zwachro posted:

I sort of want to cite Nogueira-Rodriguez as a counterexample here. At least I recall being okay with the outcome (Nog won due to the 'effort to finish' criterium which was more explicit under PRIDE rules than under Must) while I also was fine with Fedor winning with basically the same strategy (sit on top of Nog and avoid subs) only with more punches to the face. On the other hand it's been ages since I watched the fights in question and I had a bit of a PRIDE bias at the time. Which the judges also may have had, what with Ricco essentially being an UFC guy.

PRIDE produced as many lovely decisions and boring fights as our current systems. The only things we need to borrow from PRIDE are Lenne Hardt, and insanely rad production quality. Seriously, that Gladiator is just an insult at this point.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2011 00:51

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

Hey fatherdog, what do you think of an offtopic PSP Thread, similer to the Paulo Wanchope Memorial in Ray Parlour to contain all of the off topic and generic bullshit we get into on a regular basis in our other threads?

# ¿ Feb 4, 2011 01:24

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

Bundt Cake posted:

the ufc doesn't measure reach in a consistent way in any event, which is nicely illustrated by GSP's morphing arm lengths

Thats the athletic commission's shortcoming not the UFC's

# ¿ Feb 4, 2011 02:18

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

EDIT Post time: 22:54 GOD loving DAMNIT DUNCAN HOW DO YOU ALWAYS DO THAT TO ME. Its like some loving wizardry man you regular beat me posting eerily similar things by loving seconds. :argh:

Jack of Hearts posted:

What's the deal with It's Showtime rules? They seem K-1 inspired, but...not. Like why are spinning backfists illegal?

Just stop even trying to figure out why K1, Showtime, or anyone else does anything with the rules and be happier about. The weird rule changes, clinching in K1 no back fists in Showtime, all come back to the same thing. Some important guy, somewhere in the organizations thinks it will make for "more exciting" fights for some or many wrong, stupid, and meaningless reasons.

Jack of Hearts posted:

Also, how is it that It's Showtime has such amazing 70kg fighters and a champion I've never heard of? I don't get why Andy Souwer or Giorgio Petrosyan can't be bothered to fight for the belt.

Showtime having the money and exposure to bring out big guns is a relatively new thing so give it some time for their Champions to reflect that.

Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Feb 4, 2011

# ¿ Feb 4, 2011 04:54

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

Two gay sports, forever linked :allears:

# ¿ Feb 4, 2011 05:34

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

Quodio Stotes posted:

Hey Coitus_Interreptus, do you mind if I use your post on page 8 about Kakuda in another SAS thread?

Sorry to get back so late but no go ahead

# ¿ Feb 19, 2011 03:02

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

MassRayPer posted:

wrestle-chat

Uh, a lot, and I mean a whole lot of what Pro-Wrestling does as a form of entertainment it learned from Lucha Libre. Heels and Babyfaces and such, thats all stuff Pro-Wrestling learned from Lucha.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2011 11:41

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

BlindSite posted:

Yeah, I don't know what I'm talking about since when I was loving in thailand and went to Patong stadium that's exactly what was said by the ring announcer, that's exactly what my friends who train MT told me and that's exactly what I was told when training there.

Uhh

WBC Muay Thai Rules, Section 15, Scoring Procedure posted:

15.1 When the boxer uses his fists, feet, knees, and elbows as Muay Thai fighting weapons to attack his opponent powerfully, accurately, unprotectedly, and accordingly to the rules.

Well I guess, its possible they might do things different in Thailand...

Lumpinee Stadium Laws 1957, Item 18, Points Given posted:

(7) The giving of points will be given, according to the following rules:

a. Any boxer uses Muaythai weapons (fist, kick, knee, and elbow) according to the rules, against his opponent more, is the winner.

Welp. I understand that there are a metric rear end-ton of promotions with varying rules and scoring criteria but I have never heard of a single Muay Thai event where punches didn't count at all. Its generally understood that they aren't scored as favorably as kicks, elbows, and knees but saying they don't count at all is very wrong. I haven't been to Thailand, and I've never been to Patong Stadium, and I can't find their laws posted online, I guess I can't say with certainty that punches do indeed count at Patong. What I can say is that this is a general thread, for general answers to general questions, and since its generally accepted in most of the Muay Thai world that punches do infact, count, I guess we can choose to disregard you, your friends, the gym the trained at, and the stadium you went to as outliers and not reflective of Muay Thai in general.

Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 19:41 on May 6, 2011

# ¿ May 6, 2011 19:31

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

BlindSite posted:

Keep in mind that I did say "traditional" and I may be wrong in other promotions, but it was clearly said and I am repeating verbatim "punches do not score points".

I'd imagine if you went back so far that punches "didn't score" you'd be going back so far that there were rope bindings, no rounds, and no real rules anyway. Even the earliest texts we have describing Muay Thai techniques list and illustrate punches as central techniques.

Its far more likely something like this happened to you.

Fight Passport posted:

Well, the saying �if it seems to good to be true, it usually is� held true tonight because what was marketed as a �fight� turned out to be nothing more than a 2 round demonstration. I actually paid the admission fee for this event too because it was a packed house (I�m usually able to get myself waved in without actually buying a ticket).

As for the actual demonstration itself, it left a lot to be desired. Buakaw and Namsaknoi just lightly sparred (without punches) for two short rounds. Actually, the wai kru they performed at the start lasted longer than the actual demo. Here are some of the highlights..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXP4HUdeJfE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft0lPXV4tNE

And that was at Patong Stadium actually.

Either way I wasn't calling you a bullshitter anyway, I'm pointing out that this is a thread about general stuff. Your very unique experience in Thailand, while interesting and possibly made up, isn't really reflective of organized professional Muay Thai now or maybe ever. Since this thread is intended to help introduce and integrate new fans to our beloved gay sports its probably important to point out that what you posted isn't really the norm in any way shape or form.

# ¿ May 7, 2011 02:53

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 3, 2024 00:12

Ciprian Maricon: Feb 27, 2006

BlindSite posted:

I don't really want to continue arguing over this anyway. I'm happy to disagree with you and leave it at that.

No need man. I believe you and apologize for being a little passive aggressive, just trying to be funny with the "possibly made up" line. I think we can both agree though that those rules are hardly the norm and that generally speaking punches are scored in Muay Thai though generally they are given much less weight than kicks, knees, and elbows.

Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 07:38 on May 7, 2011

# ¿ May 7, 2011 07:35

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Sports Argument Stadium > The Hammer House: Stinger Splash Zone > Combat Sports - General Q and A thread: Why are these fights so boring?