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Doesn't NYC actually have pretty strict gun control laws?
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Jun 11, 2015 02:11
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I'm wondering if they are going to tie him to Shield. Explains the training and the access to weapons.
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Jun 11, 2015 02:15
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site posted:Doesn't NYC actually have pretty strict gun control laws? Concealed carry is illegal last I checked, so yeah.
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Jun 11, 2015 06:44
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Lurdiak posted:Concealed carry is illegal last I checked, so yeah. Along with type bans, mag limits, and registration for every gun in the city.
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Jun 11, 2015 13:59
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The fact that you pretty much can't legally leave the house with a gun kinda makes all that stuff moot.
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Jun 11, 2015 14:04
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It isn't like the Punisher gives a gently caress about law. He kill people.
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Jun 11, 2015 14:49
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I don't think real-world NYCs gun permit laws are going to have any bearing on Daredevil Season 2 you guys.
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Jun 11, 2015 14:53
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That's either the most brilliant, or absolute worst page featuring the Punisher and I can never decide which. redbackground posted:I don't think real-world NYCs gun permit laws are going to have any bearing on Daredevil Season 2 you guys. Real life New York didn't even have any bearing on Daredevil Season 1.
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Jun 11, 2015 15:53
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Dan Didio posted:That's either the most brilliant, or absolute worst page featuring the Punisher and I can never decide which. Leaning on the idea that Punisher is a huge Cap fanboy lead to some good comics. It's kinda reminiscent of Hitman and Superman.
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Jun 11, 2015 16:46
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Lurdiak posted:Leaning on the idea that Punisher is a huge Cap fanboy lead to some good comics. It's kinda reminiscent of Hitman and Superman. That's the thing. I like it on it's face, but when you actually think about it, I can't decide if it's a brilliant slam, or a sort of lame surface level excuse.
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Jun 11, 2015 16:49
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Dan Didio posted:That's the thing. I like it on it's face, but when you actually think about it, I can't decide if it's a brilliant slam, or a sort of lame surface level excuse. The part where Spider-man stated that Cap and Punisher were the same guy but put in a different war was a lot more objectionable to me. I woulda decked Spidey for that if I was Cap.
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Jun 11, 2015 16:55
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Lurdiak posted:The part where Spider-man stated that Cap and Punisher were the same guy but put in a different war was a lot more objectionable to me. I woulda decked Spidey for that if I was Cap. See, I think that's the saving grace of the thing. I really like that line. It's honestly kind of humanizing to both of them and I think it really resonates. Whereas, 'Not against you' is painting the Punisher as a pantwetting fanboy of Captain America, which can be read multiple contradictory ways based on how you view both the Punisher and Captain America and is too complicated to ever truly say something insightful, whereas Spiderman's line is actually illuminating, I feel, in that it points out that Captain America and The Punisher were both driven by the same fundamental goals, but twisted and warped by the times, society and circumstance they existed in. Maybe Cap would have decked him, but he's not reading the comic. Although, to be fair, I don't really think of the Punisher/Cap beatdown and The Punisher's response as 'objectionable' so much as lazy. It's very surface, to me, and not at all engaging.
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Jun 11, 2015 17:01
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site posted:Doesn't NYC actually have pretty strict gun control laws? I was thinking more along the lines of the UK or Australia, like how Shaun of the Dead was a zombie movie set someplace where there aren't rifles in every household. Lurdiak posted:The part where Spider-man stated that Cap and Punisher were the same guy but put in a different war was a lot more objectionable to me. I woulda decked Spidey for that if I was Cap. It doesn't really work, but there are a few interesting parallels that I don't think have ever been seriously explored. You'd probably need somebody like Larry Hama to ride shotgun on that project, though.
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Jun 11, 2015 17:35
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redbackground posted:I don't think real-world NYCs gun permit laws are going to have any bearing on Daredevil Season 2 you guys. Wanderer posted:I was thinking more along the lines of the UK or Australia, like how Shaun of the Dead was a zombie movie set someplace where there aren't rifles in every household. Lurdiak posted:The part where Spider-man stated that Cap and Punisher were the same guy but put in a different war was a lot more objectionable to me. I woulda decked Spidey for that if I was Cap. site fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Jun 12, 2015 |
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Jun 11, 2015 22:31
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Dan Didio posted:See, I think that's the saving grace of the thing. I really like that line. It's honestly kind of humanizing to both of them and I think it really resonates. Whereas, 'Not against you' is painting the Punisher as a pantwetting fanboy of Captain America, which can be read multiple contradictory ways based on how you view both the Punisher and Captain America and is too complicated to ever truly say something insightful, whereas Spiderman's line is actually illuminating, I feel, in that it points out that Captain America and The Punisher were both driven by the same fundamental goals, but twisted and warped by the times, society and circumstance they existed in. I think it's explained rather well in the scene earlier where it shows Castle in boot being taught fundamental truths about war by Cap which undoubtedly helps keep him alive in Vietnam. That's the reasoning for him not fighting him - he views Cap as being responsible for him being able to have any happy memories at all, since we're not talking about MAX-universe Frank where he kind of subconsciously agrees with Death that he'll give up his happy life for a ~forever war~. Also, it makes Born all the more enjoyable if you imagine the same Death Deadpool's got a crush on being the voice in Frank's head.
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Jun 11, 2015 22:43
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Mickey Rourke would own the gently caress out of a punisher max role and he's beat to poo poo enough to pass for a guy who looks like he took a few tours in the poo poo. Maybe I'll just pay him like fifty bucks or buy him a sandwich or something and have him narrate the books for me.
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Jun 16, 2015 09:15
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BIG HEADLINE posted:I think it's explained rather well in the scene earlier where it shows Castle in boot being taught fundamental truths about war by Cap which undoubtedly helps keep him alive in Vietnam. That's the reasoning for him not fighting him - he views Cap as being responsible for him being able to have any happy memories at all, since we're not talking about MAX-universe Frank where he kind of subconsciously agrees with Death that he'll give up his happy life for a ~forever war~. Due to marvels sliding timescale it may not even be the same cap. It was probably Burnside or Mace.
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Jun 16, 2015 20:00
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Rhymenoserous posted:Due to marvels sliding timescale it may not even be the same cap. It was probably Burnside or Mace. Was Steve Rogers cap ever (in 616 canon) involved in Vietnam? I've read an arc where they mentioned it, but it was alternate universe stuff. I've never really read avengers or captain america stuff so i don't know how that all played out.
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Jun 16, 2015 20:08
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Those Punisher War Journal flashbacks are a little confusing. I went back and looked, and while there's a decent amount of weasel-word "Years Ago" and "Before The War" vagueness, both Captain America and Young Frank Castle keep referring to "Charlie" and "the men in black" and "the jungle" so it's clearly meant to be Vietnam. Castle's narration even acknowledges it wasn't Steve Rogers, saying "I realize now that he must be like James Bond or Santa Claus, a character different guys play to America never has to go without its fighting spirit" so there's no claim that it's Steve Rogers, which makes sense because Steve Rogers's timeline is pretty fixed in that he got frozen near the end of WWII (1944-1945) and was revived very shortly after the Avengers formed (roughly a decade ago, give or take a few years). The span of time where he wasn't Captain America keeps growing, to the point that the gap is way bigger (like 60 years of being frozen, 15 total of being Cap) and the number of fake-Caps can't really fill the gap. William Naslund ("The Spirit of '76") was a character created by Roy Thomas in the late 1970s who basically existed to explain why Captain America comics in the 1940s showed Captain America doing stuff after V-E Day. He died in the Marvel timeline shortly after the war in 1946, so he he couldn't be around for Frank's basic training. Jeffrey Mace ("The Patriot") was an actual Golden Age superhero who appeared in the 1940s as "The Patriot" but was retconned to be the late 1940s/early 1950s Captain America who teamed with Golden Girl in the comics released at the time, but in 1980s Captain America comics it was revealed he retired in the 1950s shortly after saving the life of senate candidate John F. Kennedy (which would have been during the 1952 campaign, I guess?) and then was a dying old man when he met Steve Rogers in the modern era and then died. That particular comic when old man Mace died came out in 1983, but with the sliding timeline you could still have a member of the Greatest Generation die in the early 21st century, though he'd have to have been too old to be running around as Captain America when Frank was in basic training. The fact that the Captain America in PWJ calls himself an "army ranger" is odd, since according to those 1980s comics Mace was never in the armed services and hadn't even gotten approval from the government to be Captain America. It probably wasn't Mace. The best option is probably William Burnside, who is the fake Captain America who appeared in Ed Brubaker's run. He was only a kid during World War II, and idolized Steve Rogers. At some point after the war, he tried to recreate the Super Soldier Serum and went to the government offering to become their new Captain America. He was created by Steve Englehart in the 1970s as a retcon to establish that he was the Captain America who appeared in the rueful 1950s "Captain America: Commie Smasher!" comics, and when he "came back" in the 1970s it was revealed that he and Jack Monroe (his Bucky, later Nomad) were put in suspended animation because their imperfect Super Soldier Serum was driving them crazy. When he was revived he was convinced to run a Neo-Nazi terrorist group as The Grand Director and was thought to be killed in Englehart's run, but came back as Tea Party Cap a few years ago in Brubaker's run. Since the time Steve Rogers was out of commission has expanded by another 35-40 years since Englehart's run, it's not unreasonable to push the whole "Captain America worshipper who was fervently anti-Red is driven crazy by a bootleg SSS, gets frozen and then unfrozen after Steve Rogers" from the 1950s to the 1960s/1970s, allowing him to be around and hitting up boot camps when Frank is a recruit. It doesn't really line up with him being around for the McCarthy era in the comics actually printed in the 1950s, but it's not like anyone cares about those comics at this point. The other possibility is that this was some previously unseen character who the Army hired in the 1970s to give pep talks, basically. If you keep running with the concept that for the period of time where Steve Rogers was frozen (originally ~1945-~1963) that people kept assuming his mantle, there's now another five decades where you have to slot in Fake Caps. Maybe whoever that was is part of that.
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Jun 18, 2015 16:24
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There is no real need to do continuity gymnastics when a direct reference to Santa Claus is made. You can have as many Captain Americas as you have desperate actors and costumes, you can even have more then one at once, somebody was probably getting the same speech as Frank was at the same time.
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Jun 19, 2015 17:33
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I thought the history was interesting, at least.
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Jun 19, 2015 20:34
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The real Captain America wouldn't call Frank a pansy for refusing to hit him anyway.
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Jun 23, 2015 04:30
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Well this #19 was terrible, what the hell
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Jun 26, 2015 06:58
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frajaq posted:Well this #19 was terrible, what the hell Come back, Greg Rucka. At least you weren't totally loving tone deaf. I guess I should've known, considering how Edmondson randomly writes the one Arab dude out of the series in The Activity for no reason whatsoever. Dude's just masturbating onto a page at this point. Mars4523 fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Jun 26, 2015 |
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Jun 26, 2015 10:36
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 hahaha, this is full-on Frank Miller Or rather, that Darwyn Cooke Question story from Solo
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Jun 27, 2015 17:10
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Why the gently caress is he wearing a mask now, anyway? It's not like he has a secret identity. Oh god, they gave him a secret identity, didn't they?
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Jun 29, 2015 08:52
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I seriously thought that was Crossbones.
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Jun 29, 2015 10:36
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TheJoker138 posted:Why the gently caress is he wearing a mask now, anyway? It's not like he has a secret identity. Also it only really comes up when the lady cop who is flirting with Frank and also thinks the Punisher is super awesome goes off and shoots a black guy in the back as a cop and gets suspended and then goes out and starts executing people Punisher style and gets arrested then breaks out of jail and decides now she hates the Punisher and feels betrayed that she never realized the guy she was flirting with at the diner was the Punisher!!! So she goes crazy and evil.
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Jun 29, 2015 13:10
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Edge & Christian posted:Kind of? There are several scenes of the Punisher hanging out at some real-life LA diner and half-flirting with a cop and half-wondering if being the Punisher is a good idea, and since no one at the diner knows he's the Punisher, when the diner owner and the patrons see something on TV about the Punisher and go HE'S GREAT, WE NEED MORE THE PUNISHERS so in that way I guess it's important that he has a secret identity. Seriously, was editorial asleep when this came through? Jesus christ.
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Jun 29, 2015 13:32
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I'm all deeply sorry if you can't enjoy a beautiful grenade kick into truck of rear end in a top hat militiamen. Also as discussed earlier the Punisher mask would quite possibly be less out of place in current day Iraq than L.A. oddly enough. Edit: lol Ben Kingsley is back. Marshal Prolapse fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Jun 29, 2015 |
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Jun 29, 2015 14:09
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So basically the lesson learned from this run is you should probably let someone who's leanings are fairly liberal write Punisher at this point, because when you let a conservative do it, it comes off racist, tone deaf insanity?
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Jun 29, 2015 17:19
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That happens when you let conservatives do most things.
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Jun 29, 2015 17:31
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TheJoker138 posted:So basically the lesson learned from this run is you should probably let someone who's leanings are fairly liberal write Punisher at this point, because when you let a conservative do it, it comes off racist, tone deaf insanity? Or is perceived that way at least. Once again I'm not arguing this was a quality run...although I did like the last issue.
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Jun 29, 2015 18:03
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gfanikf posted:Or is perceived that way at least. Once again I'm not arguing this was a quality run...although I did like the last issue. What part did you like? The part where Frank makes a racist joke about middle eastern cooking?
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Jun 29, 2015 18:32
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Yes, if you squint hard enough it's easy to think it's slightly questionable to do a story where a fake ISIS takes credit for the incursions and are beheading Westerners right and left, while the victim cries out for vengeance from the Punisher. The the US military guys swing by to grab Punisher, let him know that he's always been an inspiration to them, kit him out with secret military equipment and send him off to the Middle East to kill as many A-Rabs as he can before the world ends. Even if this story COULD be done without coming off terribly, he straight up calls him killspree "indiscriminate" and is wearing US military patches while doing it, and even as he narrates he's a force of nature wiping out as many people as he can, he takes time to quip about how bad their food smells and other fun stuff.
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Jun 29, 2015 18:36
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TheJoker138 posted:What part did you like? The part where Frank makes a racist joke about middle eastern cooking? Grenade punt was good. Frank doing horrible things to assholes and Ben Kingsley. It was fun, disposable, Punisher killing people. The joke, while offensive, is pretty tame and along the lines of things I'd expect in a 1980s action movie. Truthfully the line is so generic you could honestly apply it to anyone or group. If smells worse than specific dish...yeah that's a little different. I mean also its not like the guy stock ISIS killed was unrelated to The Punisher....even if I couldn't care about him...like most of the characters in this run.
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Jun 29, 2015 18:42
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Edge & Christian posted:Yes, if you squint hard enough it's easy to think it's slightly questionable to do a story where a fake ISIS takes credit for the incursions and are beheading Westerners right and left, while the victim cries out for vengeance from the Punisher. All of this. Everything about this issue was, like, the exact opposite of everything that makes up The Punisher just so Edmunson could write a masturbatory story about killing ISIS guys. Not to mention the big payoff from Secret Wars is handled off panel at the very beginning of the issue like killing all the marvel u's bad guys is No Big Deal. site fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Jun 29, 2015 |
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Jun 29, 2015 18:43
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gfanikf posted:Truthfully the line is so generic you could honestly apply it to anyone or group. This is another point against it for me, because not only is it a lovely, racist joke, but it's a lazy and generic one at that.
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Jun 29, 2015 18:46
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site posted:All of this. Everything about this issue was, like, the exact opposite of everything that makes up The Punisher just so Edmunson could write a masturbatory story about killing ISIS guys. And that's probably why I'm fine with it. It's a decent kill a bunch of bad guys in the 1980s action movie way. A good Punisher story it is not. The biggest problem with this run isn't the politics or such it's oh is this a Punisher comic or a military action comic with a lead sorta like the Punisher. Goddamn I hate work posting as this deserves a lot more discussion and I hate trying to type it on the phone.
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Jun 29, 2015 18:49
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The single page in Secret Wars #1 with Frank was a better Punisher comic than Edmondson's entire run.gfanikf posted:The biggest problem with this run isn't the politics or such it's oh is this a Punisher comic or a military action comic with a lead sorta like the Punisher. I'd say the former issue is a significant part of the latter.
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Jun 29, 2015 18:53
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