|
Alright, I'll bite. Unless you're going to be printing giant poster-sized versions of your strips, why would you need to save at 600 DPI over 300 DPI?
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 18:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 4, 2024 23:45 |
|
|
Brannock posted:This is a dangerous road to walk. I generally tend to find, especially with long running comics, that one of the things that endears me to them is watching the art evolve along with the story and characters. It makes you feel like you're growing along with the strip, in a way.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 18:06
|
|
|
I think the only person I've seen make redrawing the first part of the comic work was Kell, but that's because she's a comic making machine with as much buffer as Gunnerkrigg Court. Edit: That is to say, most comics that go to redraw the first bits, stop updating with new stuff. Then the artist gets too stuck on redrawing and nothing ever progresses.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 18:08
|
|
|
Yeah, unless you can work as fast as Kell, redoing your first pages leads you into a cycle of depression and redoing over and over that you will never break free of. See also- People who never start making their comic for fear of 'not being good enough' and just produce endless sketches/half pages/character designs.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 18:10
|
|
|
Hi. I'm Spike, I do Templar, Arizona. If you wanna add it to the list of goon comics, that would be cool. Also, Under the "art tutorials" section, I can't recommend the Famous Artists Cartoon Course enough. This is a scan of the full course offered by Famous Artists correspondence school. It's a bit old, but very useful, especially in term of color theory, form, perspective and hand lettering. Lots of good technical information, even if you work digitally. And David Chelsea's Perspective! For Comic Book Artists is a good resource, too. Does what it says on the tin. Covers 1, 2, and 3 point perspective, perspective on living creatures, how to calculate the space between evenly-spaced objects fading towards a horizon (like fenceposts or telephone poles), and more. And for what its worth, stay far, from away from not only most Christopher Hart books, but nearly all "How to Draw Manga" books. Even the ones that aren't thinly-disguised stroke material or morgues full of meant-to-be-traced photo-posing won't teach you a thing worth learning, or a thing that isn't taught with a better foundation elsewhere. DarthVersace fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Feb 3, 2011 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 18:13
|
|
|
I've had to inflict a few rules on myself to ensure that I progress enough to eventually get my project off the ground. One of the most rigid of those is that once I declare a page finished, I am never ever ever allowed to go back and redraw it. As long as the page is still in pencils, I can nip back and fix a mistake or tighten up some anatomy, but there is no working backwards or rebooting. That is the habit that crippled me the most last time I took a whack at making a comic, and I'm determined to avoid that pothole this time. Other rules I'm working to right now include Finish This Page Before You Eat A Sandwich and If It Doesn't Look Right, Use A loving Reference. I'm treating this project as comics boot camp. It's painful, messy and amateur, but hopefully at the end of it I'll have shed some stylistic flab. And since Pick was complaining about people referring coyly to their comic projects, I'll say now that it doesn't exist online and I have no prior experience making a webcomic, so I literally have nothing to link to when I talk about this stuff. I'm aiming to build up a buffer of two (short) story arcs before I launch, so everything I draw right now is going straight into a plastic binder untouched by the eyes of man. I'm also a useless douche in that I don't want to talk about the content of the comic until launch - that was the other issue that tripped me up before. The more I told people about my comic, the less motivated I felt to draw it. So I'm really just here to learn from the old hands and to bitch and moan about how harrrrd it all is until such time as I can upload something for everyone to deride. Scurvard, I really like those colour links you posted. Colouring and colour theory in general are among my weakest points, so if anyone else has any informative links or advice on exercises/what not to do, they would be very much appreciated.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 18:30
|
|
|
I do Blasphemous Saga Fantasy. BSF is primarily about Seb Fuller, an apprentice to Xyrus Caleb Durand, better known as Master Knight, the hero who saved the Chroma Kingdom from a great evil in his youth. Seb has aspirations of being a great hero like Master Knight. Their self-proclaimed arch-rival, The Slime King, has aspirations of being a great villain, but unlike Seb, who is fairly competent, the Slime King is truly horrible at being evil. The story goes beyond that of course, but those pages aren't up yet! It's not quite a comic, but at some point BSF will probably feature monsters from my other pet project, the daily blog You Encounter a Monster. As far as resources go, I've been on the lookout for really good Manga Studio tutorials online. So far I haven't found any worth mentioning. As I get better with it, I think I might make my own.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 18:52
|
|
|
quote:warnings about redoing old comics All valid points. I'm not worried about my archives being consistent, but my first 20 or so strips are so crude that I'm concerned it might be scaring off potential readers. I'll probably just live with it. (Also: Go for the eye, Seb!)
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 19:25
|
|
|
It's been over two years since I started my comic and just recently I feel as if I've finally got the overall feeling and tone for it. I definitely didn't know where I was going when I started, it was just something I did to experiment. Anyway my comic is SCRAMBLES! It's a weird story about monsters, nerds, goths, demons, witches, cyborgs, vampires, furries, dads, businessmen, pizza, and farts. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 19:27
|
|
|
quote:Alright, I'll bite. Unless you're going to be printing giant poster-sized versions of your strips, why would you need to save at 600 DPI over 300 DPI? Compare prints of lineart at both resolutions and the difference should be obvious. Furikku posted:I tend to prefer working fast and loose as far as planning; it can be difficult at times when I feel blocked, but it keeps me enthusiastic. (An added benefit is that since I'm not too far ahead at any time, I can revise pages when I get to them and realise they have horrible layouts or dialog.) I think the opposite is true. I was able to throw out almost 100 completed pages before any went online because my buffer was large enough to give me time to redo that part of the comic, but that's not really possible when pages are going up a few days/weeks after they're completed. Also, I leave pages I'm having trouble with uninked so that I can deal with them later.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 19:39
|
|
|
Time management is a huge hurdle. It's hard to keep chanting that each page shouldn't take this long, and stop worrying about insignificant details, and the only way to get faster is by streamlining the process through more practice. But everything looks terrible the second after I've drawn it, and that leads to the problem others have already described: redrawing pages. Luckily, the two people who know I'm doing this scold me when I revert to stalling tactics. No more after this -- it's gonna be a straight shot. I'm hoping the combination of having the story planned with a destination in mind (and impatience to get there) plus feedback from internet strangers will give me the motivation to see this project through to the end. Comics are cool. It'd be cool to make them. Like Kismet, I lurked the old threads a long time before posting, then started with lots of stupid questions that made me feel guilty about not actually contributing. This is also my first comic project, I'm currently working on building a buffer, and am terribly shy about the whole thing. As long as people describe their techniques in a way that makes sense, I've got no problem with vague, coy references to what project those techniques were applied to. So here's a chapter title page; consider me absolved!  Click here for the full 500x731 image.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 19:40
|
|
|
Pick posted:All right, if we're popping out the comic intros already, here's mine, and the most recent page. Um. Dude. I don't want to sound like an rear end in a top hat here, but are you tracing photos? If you're not, it sure looks like you are, and that's something you should probably try to address.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 20:01
|
|
|
Crisco Kid posted:So here's a chapter title page; consider me absolved! Holy poo poo... How long did that take you? What was your process?
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 20:04
|
|
|
Heresiarch posted:Um. Dude. I don't want to sound like an rear end in a top hat here, but are you tracing photos? Some of the panels are gridded starting on page 15; this was something I noted on the applicable pages, like the one with the kid. Many of the rest are to some extent off of photo reference, mostly of myself in my webcam or the mirror, like on a lot of the hands. Tracing isn't possible with the paper weight I'm working on. In high-school painting class, we were required to pencil in from other images first (don't get me started) so I'm very familiar with the process, didn't mind applying it for a vanity project. If people mind, then just ignore the project. I'll also put that info on the FAQ section though instead of just the specific pages. Pick fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Feb 3, 2011 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 20:16
|
|
|
Pick posted:If people mind, then just ignore the project. This comic isn't for me, I guess.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 20:29
|
|
|
Heresiarch posted:This comic isn't for me, I guess. Hey, that's cool. I know some people object to Tony Harris' work on Ex Machina for the same reason.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 20:32
|
|
|
Pick posted:Some of the panels are gridded starting on page 15; this was something I noted on the applicable pages, like the one with the kid. The rest are off of photo reference, mostly of myself in my webcam or the mirror. Tracing isn't possible with the paper weight I'm working on. In high-school painting class, we were required to pencil in from other images first (don't get me started) so I'm very familiar with the process, didn't mind applying it for a vanity project. If people mind, then just ignore the project. I'll also put that info on the FAQ section though instead of just the specific pages. This is nothing some anatomy studies can't fix, and your comic would really benefit from that. A good artist (like Harris) can get away with it because he knows anatomy and is not just copying what's on the surface. He knows where the bones and muscles are and he's able to emphasize or omit whatever he needs to make the image look good. You're just not there yet.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 20:41
|
|
|
the kawaiiest posted:That's not the point, it's not a "I mind this because I think it's wrong" thing, it's just that it looks bad. It's easy to tell that the images are copied (not "referenced" -- there's a difference) and that ruins the experience. Everything is stiff and there seems to be complete disregard for structure, this is like looking at mannequins. They don't strike me as real people -- not because they don't look realistic enough but because there doesn't appear to be anything beneath the surface.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 20:49
|
|
|
Fortis posted:It's not quite a comic, but at some point BSF will probably feature monsters from my other pet project, the daily blog You Encounter a Monster. I had stumbled on this from BSF and I absolutely LOVE this. I would not be surprised if I came across any of them in a new Mother series game. Quetzal-Coital posted:I generally tend to find, especially with long running comics, that one of the things that endears me to them is watching the art evolve along with the story and characters. It makes you feel like you're growing along with the strip, in a way. Yeah, I agree. I was kinda thrown off by the redrawn comics in the Beartato print book. Great book (and a solid amount of original content) but sometimes I stop and think "wait a minute.. this used to be another color didn't it?" Also--thanks for the add and for making this thread!
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 20:49
|
|
|
Pick posted:Okay, I'll take a step back and do it the old-fashioned way for a while. I was doing it at the beginning and wasn't happy with the results, but you're right, I definitely went too far in terms of relying on photos. Thanks for the advice!
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 20:52
|
|
|
DarthVersace posted:And David Chelsea's Perspective! For Comic Book Artists is a good resource, too. Does what it says on the tin. Covers 1, 2, and 3 point perspective, perspective on living creatures, how to calculate the space between evenly-spaced objects fading towards a horizon (like fenceposts or telephone poles), and more. Seconding Chelsea's book. I've had it since high school, and I still pick it up for reference every once in a while. Action Cartooning by Ben Caldwell got me thinking about changing character silhouettes and incorporating lines of action. Learn to Draw Comics the Marvel Way was probably what got me interested in drawing comics when I was little kid. No doubt there are superior online resources for all the above mentioned, but those were the 3 that had the most influence on me. Right now, I'm really digging former Disney animator Tom Bancroft's work, specifically his character design and expressions/poses. I think a big thing my characters are falling flat on is their expressions (mainly because of the way I currently draw faces). I'll be looking to integrate some of his techniques into my work this year.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 21:24
|
|
|
I've noticed, in terms of comic page redraws, sometimes when a comic gets picked up for publication, they request or even require the artist redraw early pages. Also there are plenty of artists who redraw or edit their early pages before self-publishing. And I understand why, the standards are different for web and print (if only because of the hurdles for getting published and the ease of online publication), but I also understand that the comic amassed enough of a readership to justify print using the very art they're redrawing. I know people enjoy reading comics online and watching their progression, but how do people feel about buying a print anthology of a webcomic if the early art isn't that great? This is assuming this isn't a comic you're already a fan of, maybe you've never even heard of it and you're table-side at a convention. Also it was mentioned in the OP but I do Love Me Nice, blah dee bloo. It is hiatus/buffer-building/guest comic month though. Not the best time to be sharing it, but the guest comics are pretty rad so that's a plus!
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 21:25
|
|
|
Concerning redrawing pages, the only ones of mine I'm really itching to do over are pages two through four of content. I drew them when it was still just a 'what the hell' style pet project, and I find them super clunky both visually and in the writing since I wasn't confident that it would go anywhere. Click here for the full 610x820 image.  Click here for the full 610x820 image.  Click here for the full 610x820 image. They are just dumb. Dumb dumb dumb. The rest of it isn't perfect but this character relationship is actually really important and I established it in a really hamfisted way. hurdur makin' out on a park bench Concerning buffers, I like to have at least three pages for every one that goes up, but I've been really bad about it recently since I started a new job and I feel like I barely have time to scratch my own head anymore. I'm still adamant about getting them up on the site at the expected time, though, and would never forgive myself if I had to postpone.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 21:28
|
|
|
Quetzal-Coital posted:How long did that take you?  It took about three days, maybe. I just draw at night with something on in the background, and sometimes the difficult pages can take all week. My goal is consistency: upload twice a week, spend no more than three days on a page, maintain the buffer. Everything starts with a thumbnail, then I hunt down a ton of references and end up using perhaps a third of them. Sketch directly in Manga Studio or import a pencil scan, ink ink ink in MS, export to Photoshop for shading and other details, slap on a yellow tint (ffcc00 fill, Multiply Layer at 12% Opacity!) and call it done. I'm considering replacing the Photoshop step with SAI or adding a light texture to give pages an organic touch. I'm addicted to references, even ones I can't directly incorporate. Right now I've got tabs of neat-looking art and photos of people fighting, yet their positions and clothing have nothing to do with the characters currently being drawn. Like somehow I'm hoping the mojo will enter through my eyes, percolate in my brain, then spit out through my fingers.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 22:46
|
|
|
Okay, trying again. One of my main projects right now is a webcomic called The Intrepid Girlbot, which is a weird silent comic strip about a robot's doomed mission to be a good little girl. It also has a lot of raccoons in it, which is just something that happened. I'm almost done with the first part, which I plan to collect and publish this year. It'll be my first foray into self-publishing, and it's exciting and terrifying!!! Here's a few recent strips: (I hope these aren't totally table-breaking, but they look bad as thumbnails.)    I'm trying to make the March 31st deadline for the Xeric Grant, which means I'm doing overtime to try to get all the strips drawn. That, on top of also trying to finish off Poorcraft, is keeping me pretty busy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 23:05
|
|
|
Crisco Kid posted:I'm addicted to references, even ones I can't directly incorporate. Right now I've got tabs of neat-looking art and photos of people fighting, yet their positions and clothing have nothing to do with the characters currently being drawn. Like somehow I'm hoping the mojo will enter through my eyes, percolate in my brain, then spit out through my fingers. Say what you like, this is 100% of my approach to writing. The Reference tab in my bookmarks folder is approximately four times the length of the tab I use for my dissertation research.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 23:12
|
|
|
Dude, The Intrepid Girlbot should not be thumbnailed. It deserves its full glory.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 23:29
|
|
|
Don't redraw. It's frustrating. It's depressing. Only reason I'm doing it is becuase my pages aren't high res enough for books. I have like 300 more pages to redo.  But it sure is a big improvement. Before  After 
KellHound fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Feb 3, 2011 |
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2011 23:35
|
|
|
One very good reason to redraw is if your early stuff is completely terrible. Although I assume for most of the people in this thread that is not really a thing, since I think the majority here are at worst slightly terrible or just mediocre. I occasionally wince at my early stuff but it drove me batty enough doing it the first time and it's probably better than a lot of published stuff and definitely better than most webcomics so I'm not going to think about going back over it. The closest I've come is redoing a panel before uploading. Once it's up, ain't no way I'm doin' that poo poo again.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2011 00:09
|
|
|
That's a huge improvement for only 4~ years in between. Great work!
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2011 00:15
|
|
|
I have a new wordpress blog, but how do I make it into the comicpress layout? I do not understand anything that they are saying in the forums, how did you guys using comicpress set it up? e. Nevermind, I figured out the issue. And I have no money for hosting so I guess I'll have to do something else. 
The Worst Unicorn fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Feb 4, 2011 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2011 00:58
|
|
|
The Worst Unicorn posted:I have a new wordpress blog, but how do I make it into the comicpress layout? I do not understand anything that they are saying in the forums, how did you guys using comicpress set it up? I had the same problem with comicpress. So I used webcomic instead. Although it still helps to have a tech savy friend who you can run crying to when put a semi-colon in the wrong place and everything breaks.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2011 01:30
|
|
|
Brannock posted:That's a huge improvement for only 4~ years in between. Great work! It's more like 5 years. But thanks.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2011 02:24
|
|
|
Quetzal-Coital, I thought I'd just point out that my username is EvelynPoor, not EvelynPoo. That makes me feel like Mookie. Also, Sorcery 101 is listed twice. I know it's a great comic but... :P
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2011 03:01
|
|
|
I totally admire Kel's ability to redraw her old, unprintable comics. She makes it work. I will likely have to do some heavy touch-up for the first ~30 Girlbot strips for them to look right with the rest of it, but I hesitate to totally redraw anything unless it's absolutely necessary. I think the trick to redrawing is to A) be able to manage your time well and B) have a definite stopping point so you don't go round and round in circles redrawing your old redraws. A lot of artists I know are really critical of their own old work, and the urge to lose yourself in the endless pursuit of perfection is very tempting...
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2011 04:57
|
|
|
Desty posted:Alright, I'll bite. Unless you're going to be printing giant poster-sized versions of your strips, why would you need to save at 600 DPI over 300 DPI? Your art will look way sharper. Always keep high-res copies of your files because you can always downsize if you need to. The cover of my book (which is being squatted on by the goddamn shipping company after thirteen son of a bitch months of putting together!!!  ) is 600dpi and as soon as anyone but me can actually see it it makes a huge huge difference in clarity of art.Also I guess I do this: http://www.deadwinter.cc hello vvv no no no not at all. 300dpi is generally the resolution things are printed at as its roughly the threshold beyond which the human eye can't tell the difference. BUT 600dpi is even sharper. 300 is perfectly fine for your interior art. Reiley fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Feb 4, 2011 |
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2011 05:24
|
|
|
So am I like completely screwed having done all my comic pages at 300 dpi? Oh boy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2011 05:48
|
|
|
300 dpi is fine. As you get higher than that you get diminishing returns. 150 dpi looks like robot poo poo, 300 dpi looks pretty good, 600 dpi looks slightly better. If I remember right, Marvel Comics work at 400 dpi.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2011 06:04
|
|
|
300dpi will do you fine in most circumstances, but I'm super picky and work in 600dpi for my Important Comics. For less important things, I'll work as low as 400dpi, but I feel funny going any lower than that. It's just the way I've conditioned myself. 600dpi: BECAUSE YOU NEVER KNOW.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2011 10:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 4, 2024 23:45 |
|
|
Snicket posted:300dpi will do you fine in most circumstances, but I'm super picky and work in 600dpi for my Important Comics. For less important things, I'll work as low as 400dpi, but I feel funny going any lower than that. It's just the way I've conditioned myself. 600dpi: Because really, who needs PSDs that are smaller than 1gb?
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2011 11:17
|
|
