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I was making a joke based on 50/50 being the new fad but I think specific positions should be left to discussion. I tried to keep the OP Grappling 101 to keep from overwhelming people. If Rickson and Roger don't do it, it is heresy. ligaments definitely tear in achilles locks. I know a BB who just recently got out of his ankle brace after being straight ankle locked in a tournament.
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Feb 3, 2011 03:15
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Xguard86 posted:I was making a joke based on 50/50 being the new fad but I think specific positions should be left to discussion. I tried to keep the OP Grappling 101 to keep from overwhelming people. At least he didn't get kneebahed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k_47Fjao8Y fatherdog posted:Properly applied, a straight footlock will actually break the bones of the foot (the metatarsals), not just the ligaments. The half guard game has evolved to the point where it's really hard to quantify what half guard is. There's deep half, 93, half butterfly, x-guard, hell even tornado guard is a half guard variant.
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Feb 3, 2011 03:29
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I'm showing my ignorance here, but does Sumo count as a grappling sport? I know very little about it, but everything I read or watch fascinates me. I know Akebono has tried to do a little MMA or kickboxing here and there, but he just doesn't have the conditioning for it - a round of Sumo wrestling takes about 5 to 40 seconds in general, as opposed to 5 minute rounds in MMA and several of them. How much do MMA guys, particularly those of Judo extraction, know of Sumo techniques? Is there a big difference between Judo and Sumo throws? Put differently, if there was a weightclass in MMA that accomodated Sumo physiques, would Sumo be important? Also, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LabS79eK5tI If this isn't the right place to ask, is there anybody from the combat sports crowd who knows enough to start a Sumo thread?
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Feb 3, 2011 03:35
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Lucasar posted:I'm showing my ignorance here, but does Sumo count as a grappling sport? Yes, albeit one with little mma representation/application quote:I know very little about it, but everything I read or watch fascinates me. I know Akebono has tried to do a little MMA or kickboxing here and there, but he just doesn't have the conditioning for it - a round of Sumo wrestling takes about 5 to 40 seconds in general, as opposed to 5 minute rounds in MMA and several of them. How much do MMA guys, particularly those of Judo extraction, know of Sumo techniques? Machida actually competed in Sumo a little, but his trips and throws are mostly from wrestling and karate. If you're asking if regular mma fighters study sumo, then no. quote:Is there a big difference between Judo and Sumo throws? In sumo you give up a point as soon as anything that isn't the soles of your feet touch the ground, and also as soon as you get pushed out of the (small) circle, so the techniques are a lot more limited. There are some throws that are common between it and judo, so in that sense judo guys know some "sumo" technique. quote:Put differently, if there was a weightclass in MMA that accomodated Sumo physiques, would Sumo be important? Not even a little. quote:If this isn't the right place to ask, is there anybody from the combat sports crowd who knows enough to start a Sumo thread? I doubt there'd be enough interest to really sustain a Sumo thread, but if someone knowledgeable would like to start one, please feel free.
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Feb 3, 2011 03:41
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I keep meaning to ask and forgetting; what exactly is reaping the knee, and why is it banned in some competitions?
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Feb 3, 2011 03:50
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^ Thanks that's helpful. I was aware that sumo has pretty formal conditions for winning, but according to the OP, so does competitive judo, so I figured I'd ask.
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Feb 3, 2011 03:52
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SpoonmanUK posted:I keep meaning to ask and forgetting; what exactly is reaping the knee, http://goatfury.blogspot.com/2009/05/us-grappling-rules-straight-footlock.html quote:and why is it banned in some competitions? Because the IBJJF are a bunch of pussies.
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Feb 3, 2011 03:54
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At one time Sumo was actually very much like wrestling/judo, they used similar throws and takedowns. I believe you could also win through pin and submission. I think really primitive Sumo might have even allowed some forms of striking but I'm not sure. I lost a lot of my old martial arts books so this is just based on memory Xguard86 fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Feb 3, 2011 |
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Feb 3, 2011 03:58
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fatherdog posted:Because the IBJJF are a bunch of pussies. Seriously, lemme use slicers. At least no gi.
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Feb 3, 2011 04:37
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Xguard86 posted:I meant that they do not use the Gracie name, and would not even if Rorion didn't copyright it. It is called "Machado Jiu-jitsu" or "RCJ BJJ" when someone is trying to refer to that branch. Which Machado do you train under? I train under/with Jean Jacques. Also FD- I don't know how you decided when one lineage starts and another ends but, the Machado's(at least Jean Jacques) have had a falling out of sorts with Carlos Gracie JR, so I don't think it's totally wrong to say they have a separate lineage going forward. Dante posted:you should because of the all the fad guards that caused an uproar and bitching about rule changes to make them illegal because no knew how to counter them (spider guard) then people stopped caring once they figured it out, the 50/50 guard remained and is getting increasingly popular. It also has an interesting history, being more or less invented as a way to somehow beat Cobrinha by rethinking an old stalling position then taking on a life of its own, Ryan Hall etc who now makes a living tapping everybody with his 50/50 nogi guard. It's also interesting because when we say guard it's really shorthand for fighting position for the guy who is on the bottom, but with the 50/50 it's a mirror image position and a position that's actually 100% neutral in terms of positional advantage. By no means am I a 50/50 expert but there are a couple of points I want to make. First 50/50 wasn't designed strictly to stall or beat Cobrinha. It first got popular in no gi as a way to attack with the heel hook, and it can be used to finish guys in the gi as well(Cobrinha beat Bruno Fratzatto in the finals of the Mundials one year with a toe hold from 50/50 with like 20 seconds left) the fact that all the top featherweights are crazy flexible doesn't mean you can't finish from there(Rodrigo Cavaca finishes dudes from there all the time). More importantly 50/50 isn't always a 100% neutral position. Depending on the exact position of the legs and grips(in the gi anyways) one person often has a real advantage, it's still hard to sweep or pass, but one guys in the drivers seat so to speak. Jeff Glover talked about this at the seminar I did last week, but I don't know the position well enough to go into great detail on how one person would be in a stronger position than his opponent. Even if you participate in bjj/sub grappling/whatever it's sometimes boring to watch a lot of matches, but here are some cool highlight video's of awesome dudes doing awesome poo poo Terere http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJqgXTsnf54 Roberto "Cyborg" Abreu http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDF0if7SQBY Ronaldo "Jacare" Souza http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0_6u07fOcI Rubens "Cobrinhha" Charles http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMCzXYwx2HE
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Feb 3, 2011 06:59
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Dante posted:The kimura in the picture should actually be a kimura and not an americana, there's no leglocks or compression submissions in the OP either.
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Feb 3, 2011 17:01
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Grifter posted:The original version I wrote was 100% oriented towards MMA, I'm glad to see that people have expanded on it now that it's being used in the grappling thread too. Yes, thanks again for your great starting point. It was much easier to just expand what you had than create a post whole clothe. I would rather not say which Machado I train under, in case I someday piss off an internet detective and they decide to hunt me for vengeance using my post history.
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Feb 3, 2011 17:10
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Some day, when BJJ is as mainstream as other MAs, streetfights will start with all involved parties immediately falling down and buttscooting towards each other looking for a limb. Maybe you can be a trendsetter and do the same to your internet assailant.
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Feb 3, 2011 17:51
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Actually when I was in college, the BJJ academy offered an intro class through the University which was insanely popular. Basically, almost every college guy in town knew how to do a guillotine and sit up sweep. We all laughed that soon, every bar fight would just be complete silence as everyone clinches up and tries to pull guard on each other, then people would tap, everyone would shake hands, and go home without a punch thrown or glass broken.
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Feb 3, 2011 17:56
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People are bringing up Judo in the other thread but ill bring it up here since I think its more appropriate... Ive recently lost some weight and am more fit than before so im giving Judo a try. How well do Juso skills translate over to BJJ or no-gi grappling? I would like to eventually enter into a competition just to see how I fare against other people... Would my judogi even be legal in a BJJ competition?
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Feb 4, 2011 05:25
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fawker posted:Ive recently lost some weight and am more fit than before so im giving Judo a try. How well do Juso skills translate over to BJJ or no-gi grappling? Not in the slightest really. Thats not a knock on Judo, but the modern sport is so specialized that its tough to really apply it in any outside setting. You'd know a few good throws, but not enough to really take any advantage of them, and would be a perpetual victim to wrestlers, and grapplers alike. Thats not to say Judo isn't totally worth it if you want to study it I really encourage you to, its a very cool martial art, but you wont have much success simply walking into a grappling tournament with nothing more than some Judo experience at your back.
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Feb 4, 2011 05:32
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Why don't you do BJJ if you want to compete in BJJ? gently caress.
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Feb 4, 2011 05:32
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KidDynamite posted:Why don't you do BJJ if you want to compete in BJJ? gently caress. Why the gently caress did the Gracies wrestle? To get better at it and to improve. Some guys like a challenge, and want to prove their style of grappling (sambo, catch wrestling, judo etc) is just as effective and relevant as BJJ so why not go and prove it on their grounds? IIRC Josh Barnett absolutely beasted through the IBJFF No-Gi world champions even though they specifically had banned two of Josh's main weapons, neck cranks and heel hooks (correct me if I'm wrong, just going off of memory) and he absolutely destroyed everyone he faced.
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Feb 4, 2011 05:40
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Oh Em Gee posted:Why the gently caress did the Gracies wrestle? To get better at it and to improve. Some guys like a challenge, and want to prove their style of grappling (sambo, catch wrestling, judo etc) is just as effective and relevant as BJJ so why not go and prove it on their grounds? IIRC Josh Barnett absolutely beasted through the IBJFF No-Gi world champions even though they specifically had banned two of Josh's main weapons, neck cranks and heel hooks (correct me if I'm wrong, just going off of memory) and he absolutely destroyed everyone he faced. If by "absolutely destroyed" you mean "got a judge's decision after a scoreless tie" Also Barnett trains under a BJJ black belt so calling anything he does proof of the effectiveness of catch wrestling is kind of retarded
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Feb 4, 2011 05:45
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mostly because I dont want to do BJJ classes YET as the gyms in my area are stupid expensive. Wanna get a Judo base I guess and then maybe next year join an MMA gym so I can get not only BJJ but maybe some other stuff too.  *EDIT* BJJ gyms in my area are at the minimum $90+/month for 4-5 classes a week (which I wouldnt be able to take advantage of) This Judo place I dug up will cost me $40 a month. fawker fucked around with this message at 05:47 on Feb 4, 2011 |
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Feb 4, 2011 05:45
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BJJ is also a lot more expensive than Judo. I considered trying it at my uni as during semester which hosts some reasonably accomplished judoka, as an alternative to BJJ during semester, but the fact they didn't have any dedicated newaza days was a big turnoff.
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Feb 4, 2011 05:45
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Oh Em Gee posted:Why the gently caress did the Gracies wrestle? To get better at it and to improve. Some guys like a challenge, and want to prove their style of grappling (sambo, catch wrestling, judo etc) is just as effective and relevant as BJJ so why not go and prove it on their grounds? IIRC Josh Barnett absolutely beasted through the IBJFF No-Gi world champions even though they specifically had banned two of Josh's main weapons, neck cranks and heel hooks (correct me if I'm wrong, just going off of memory) and he absolutely destroyed everyone he faced. Yea but he's obviously starting out so it's not he's supplementing his BJJ with Judo you big tard.
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Feb 4, 2011 05:50
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fatherdog posted:If by "absolutely destroyed" you mean "got a judge's decision after a scoreless tie" Dear god you are being a pedant, just because you cross train doesn't mean you are suddenly apart of that style. Erik Paulson has trained in multiple, multiple styles and therefore could be called any number of things not just a BJJ black belt. Ho Chi Meeeeee fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Feb 4, 2011 |
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Feb 4, 2011 05:50
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KidDynamite posted:Yea but he's obviously starting out so it's not he's supplementing his BJJ with Judo you big tard. Welp, I can't read.
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Feb 4, 2011 05:51
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haha thanks for coming to my defense anyways oh em gee, and everyone else thanks for the advice I guess
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Feb 4, 2011 06:07
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Please try to keep it serious OP, this isn't the tread for that. Here's a proper flying guillotine to straighten things out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOnEXNe4eU4
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Feb 4, 2011 13:31
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Hooray! A new grappling thread. I have a question; I have ridiculously flexible knees and ankles and so I've never been caught in any kind of kneebar or ankle lock and I've always managed to twist out of it or out-anklelock them. Because of this, I've usually told opponents after rolling that getting a leg lock on me will be very hard, and that if they don't get it it's probably not from bad technique, just my body being broken. The result of this is usually that people stop going for leg locks on me, and welp, that seems kind of detrimental to everyone involved. Should I just start keeping my mouth shut.
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Feb 4, 2011 17:05
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Oh Em Gee posted:Dear god you are being a pedant, just because you cross train doesn't mean you are suddenly apart of that style. Erik Paulson has trained in multiple, multiple styles and therefore could be called any number of things not just a BJJ black belt. Paulson trained in BJJ much longer than he trained in catch, and his first art was judo. I never said Josh was "a part" of BJJ, but when a guy trains under a BJJ black belt for ten years, calling him beating a BJJ guy "proof of his style of grappling" is really pretty stupid.
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Feb 4, 2011 17:23
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Bohemian Nights posted:Should I just start keeping my mouth shut. Yes, eventually someone is going to seriously wreck the poo poo out of your knee or foot because you keep saying your super flexible.
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Feb 4, 2011 17:27
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Bohemian Nights posted:Hooray! A new grappling thread. when i spar with people i tell them they shouldnt take their hands away from their head because i hit really really hard. this has resulted in people never punching at me. this seems detrimental to everyone involved.
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Feb 4, 2011 18:06
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MycroftXXX posted:Yes, eventually someone is going to seriously wreck the poo poo out of your knee or foot because you keep saying your super flexible. Yes, the thought has crossed my mind. Also thanks Mobn, you're a star.
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Feb 4, 2011 18:29
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Bohemian Nights posted:Hooray! A new grappling thread. Yes. Stop. Leglocks are very dangerous and you should not push the limits with them. Particularly you should not be twisting or moving very violently. I once had a guy that was so frantic to escape he would have torn his own knee apart if I hadn't released his foot. It spun around in my armpit like a sprinkler head. A lot of the time a leglock will not actually hurt until something is torn or broken. Heel hooks are especially bad about going from no obvious discomfort to 6 months of rehab and surgery. You do not want this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce0m8Buc86o The popping sounds were his knee.
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Feb 4, 2011 19:14
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Xguard86 posted:You do not want this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce0m8Buc86o Yeah, that's pretty 
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Feb 5, 2011 04:03
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Be really careful with leglocks and pushing the limits with any submission because you're flexible. It is better to just tap in training and learn to not get into that position than to test your flexibility. For example I used to have really flexible shoulders but after doing something as small as spraining my AC joint from a weird kimura it has never really been as flexible. Just tap and restart. Better to begin again and learn how not to get into those positions then spend 4 minutes fighting a submission and learn nothing. Edit for content: Also, I just had my first nogi comp was alot of fun and learnt alot.
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Feb 14, 2011 02:50
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Just got done working/competing the IBJJF Houston Open this weekend. It was awesome as work/life has been stressful for the last 3 weeks, keeping me off the mat, ugh, but this has been the best weekend for me in awhile. Excuses about being away from training aside (yeah yeah!), I lost my first match (competed at blue belt about 7 times now, and only won 2 matches total, but not giving up anytime soon). My game plan was partially executed and I got a sweep I have been working on alot as of late, so, moral victory! I worked as a mat organizer and felt great being in charge of alot of competitors and was surrounded by great competition in general. Being at a tournament from a "workers point of view" was also good in its own unique way, seeing the game from a nuetral perspective basically. I saw alot of top competition from some Lloyd Irvin and Lovatos guys. I really wish I could somehow make a career about of jiu jitsu.
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Feb 14, 2011 03:35
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My friend moved to OKC and now trains at Lovato's. He said there was a big push for guys to go to Houston and compete. Lovato is also apparently all about competition and runs highly structured classes based around drilling and tournament ready fitness.
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Feb 14, 2011 04:43
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I'm 24, a college sophomore, and ~175-180 pounds. I can bench press my weight, with maybe a few pounds tacked on. I have weird-rear end GSP legs and can squat like 375 or so regularly. Never tested my max, but I'd probably be able to hit 400. Anyway, I 'm considering switching schools, and the new one has a Div 1-AAA wrestling team. I want motivation to get in shape (having a kid has tacked roughly 20 pounds onto me), and wrestling looks interesting. I have minimal BJJ experience and somewhat extensive combatives experience within the Army. My only experience with wrestling is back suplexing the only kid my weight (some 115 lb nerd) in high school from the side position and pinning him. What is the best way to not embarrass myself. Feel free to ask anything you need to determine why I should not attempt this, ever. edit: after some reading, apparently squatting that much is a good thing. I was not aware. This is my level of knowledge regarding gym equipment and weight things Save Russian Jews fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Feb 14, 2011 |
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Feb 14, 2011 05:54
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Xguard86 posted:You do not want this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ce0m8Buc86o I don't hear any, besides Silva's tapping on Imanari's leg?
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Feb 14, 2011 06:52
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Save Russian Jews posted:I'm 24, a college sophomore, and ~175-180 pounds. I can bench press my weight, with maybe a few pounds tacked on. I have weird-rear end GSP legs and can squat like 375 or so regularly. Never tested my max, but I'd probably be able to hit 400. Why did having a kid cause you to gain weight?
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Feb 14, 2011 08:45
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gonna guess you start to move around less, eat more, eat worse things, eat more irregularly, less time for hobbies (training) etc edit: or save russian jews is a girl i guess
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Feb 14, 2011 09:11
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