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A new challanger has entered the arena:quote:Senegal: Associated Press reports a man setting himself on fire in front of the presidential palace in Senegal on Friday, the latest self-immolation on the African continent.
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Feb 18, 2011 16:14
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Spiky Ooze posted:All these people still out there despite having some of the most threatening dictators in the world willing to attack them... this whole series of events is something truly once in a lifetime. And yet it's happening multiple times in the span of a month. Just watching these events take place has been enough to completely restore my faith in humanity, and then some.
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Feb 18, 2011 16:20
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Toadofsky posted:Is the goal with these protests specifically democracy or do they just want change in general? If only there was a really comprehensive and informative OP that covered this. Stop posting in these threads if all you're going to do is ask things you could answer yourself with minimal effort.
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Feb 18, 2011 16:20
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More on the shooting at Pearl Square:quote:Soldiers fired tear gas and shot heavy weapons into the air Friday as thousands of protest marchers defied a government ban and streamed toward the landmark square that has been the symbolic centre of the uprising against the Gulf nation's leaders. The Bahrain government really isn't doing itself any favours reacting like this, it's just making the protesters more defiant, and makes their demands more and more extreme. It's like Egypt all over again.
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Feb 18, 2011 16:22
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Things seem to be getting very serious in Libya, there's reports of protests spreading across the country, and in Benghazi people are arming themselves with weapons stolen from police stations to fight the mercenaries that have been recruited from Chad to fight the protesters.
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Feb 18, 2011 17:07
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Live ammunition used in Bahrain, ambulance drivers and head of the ambulance service arrested, hospitals full, do they honestly think any of this poo poo is going to break the protests up? fakedit: They are opening fire on protesters from helicopters. What the gently caress. (all from AJE, talking to an MP and a doctor. The doctor is literally begging for help.)
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Feb 18, 2011 17:20
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quote:A BBC correspondent in Tripoli says unconfirmed reports from Benghazi say the building of the state broadcaster there has been taken over by anti-government protesters.
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Feb 18, 2011 17:21
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Reveilled posted:I'd say better. Unless the person who said it is actually a racist or something, the statement itself is genuine ignorance rather than what we usually mean when we say "ignorant" which is "dumb and racist". 
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Feb 18, 2011 17:40
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Brown Moses posted:It really sounds like the government has lost complete control of Benghazi. Libya is really an interesting case since you(perhaps I'm being pessimistic here) really would expect the sort of military crackdown we're seeing from America's close personal friends in Bahrain. Instead, and it is hard to know for sure since there are so few sources of information, protesters seem to be gaining steam and physically expelling the regime from cities. If it succeeds I'd really love to read a book examining what actually happened because these glimpses are fascinating.
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Feb 18, 2011 17:41
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The Bahrain government ran towards the flames of revolution with buckets filled with napalm today:quote:A witness to today's dramatic events in Manama tells al-Jazeera English: "[There were] only bullets. They didn't give us any [indication] so that we could just run away from them. They just started shooting us. Now there are more than 20 injured in the hospital. One guy, he has already passed away because he got shot in his head. And there are more than three injured. They will pass away in a few hours because... they have got shot... near their chest or near their heart." quote:Lots of tweets flying around about medical treatment being denied in Manama. Reports unconfirmed as yet. quote:Martin Chulov is tweeting from Salmaniya hospital in Manama. A man admitted with gunshot wounds has just died, Martin says. quote:Guardian correspondent Martin Chulov tweets from Manama: "Man shot in the head just died. Easily 10k people - all seething - inside hospital grounds. Anti regime chants non-stop." quote:CNN's Hala Gorani tweets: "Medical source tells CNN 20 people killed, 200 injured in clashes w/ security forces in Benghazi. #Libya" Yeah, good job King Hamad, I'm sure that'll do a brilliant job of calming down the situation and ending the protests. Maybe there's a few Shi-ite babies you can throw off the skyscrapers in the city centre to calm down things too?
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Feb 18, 2011 17:42
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I don't think Bahrain is trying to calm down the revolution though, it is trying to turn it into an explicitly sectarian conflict. The dangers of that boggle the imagination given the shiite populations along the coast, but if that's what the Sunni leadership of the gulf states want to do they'll have the full support of Saudi Arabia. According to the guardian liveblog, funeral practices in Bahrain usually take three days. The governments insistence on violent repression could set up a martyr cycle as we saw during the Iranian revolution. Unfortunately the gulf states have a bigger stick in the form of borrowed Saudi thugs. In that case though, what happens in Southern Iraq ia going to be incredibly interesting since that shiite group is going to be a hell of a lot harder for the Saudi's to crush.
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Feb 18, 2011 17:52
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In many ways, Egypt was in a far better position to pull off a peaceful revolt than a lot of the the other Arab states. This is only going to get uglier for a while.
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Feb 18, 2011 17:57
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If the Saudis get involved on the ground, unless covertly, there will be worldwide backlash -- I doubt that will happen. It's really up to the protesters with how far they want to take it, which depends on their spirits and determination. Recent history has proven that this could go either way; Egypt/Tunisia, or 2009 Iran (or far worse.) The next few days and weeks are critical to the entire future of the middle east. Amazing. vvv Well, it depends. I think if you are well informed and know what you are talking about even if you are in a first world country you still have a right to question, criticise and demand a better government/society. However, in my experience people rarely know what the gently caress they are talking about, which I guess is a symptom of living in first world country and taking for granted what you have. Lascivious Sloth fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Feb 18, 2011 |
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Feb 18, 2011 18:08
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Does anyone else occasionally get physically loving angry about the poo poo these people have to put up with? Also, next time my dad bitches about taxes, I am going to show him this article: http://bikyamasr.com/wordpress/?p=12424 Even after tax, the average UK income is staggering compared to what most Egyptian people have to live on. And my dad is pretty high above the average. I know I'm not taking poo poo like cost of living into account, but still. He just never seems to realise how good he's got it. edit: Is there a new channel for all the poo poo going down in the Middle East or are we staying in #tahrir on SynIRC? Nuclear Spoon fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Feb 18, 2011 |
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Feb 18, 2011 18:08
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Pureauthor posted:In many ways, Egypt was in a far better position to pull off a peaceful revolt than a lot of the the other Arab states. This is only going to get uglier for a while. I am actually rather optimistic about Libya. Its army is similar to Egypt's in that it is conscript-heavy, and the society does not have the sectarian split of the gulf states. I also have a feeling like Gaddafi has enough crazy mental flexibility and residual political capital to maybe pull off resigning gracefully into an elder-statesman role. All he really has to do is declare the success of the revolution which he led, the maturation of a new generation, and grab a bunch of people to form a constitutional convention. Then he leaves with enough of a mixed legacy to spend his retirement jetting around and making speeches. A Kissinger of the maghreb if you will. This last bit is also why I'm optimistic about Egypt's generals wanting to preside over a successful transition to legitimate, well-crafted civilian rule. Sure, they could go for being the next Mubarak, but the gig might not last so long. On the other hand, if they do the right thing there's a chance of being as revered as George Washington. We'll have to see which way they go.
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Feb 18, 2011 18:21
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ChaosSamusX posted:And yet it's happening multiple times in the span of a month. Just watching these events take place has been enough to completely restore my faith in humanity, and then some. The strangely beautiful thing in all of this carnage is that it didn't have far to go when it bubbled to the surface. This flies in the face of American Imperialism: real change is going on right now. And stuff is getting done. It's not always successful and it's very bloody and violent, but this is happening. To a cynical and pampered American like myself, it's quite touching to see people going through so much just to get a better life for themselves. I wish them all success, and I hope it turns out right for them. That said, if Bahrain manages to overthrow the Saudis, things will go into overdrive.
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Feb 18, 2011 18:43
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Bahrain is going to be a blood bath before it's over (even more than it already is). It doesn't help that the region is perceiving this as an entirely Iranian-backed uprising against Sunni's in general and this really gives the United State's some leverage to use to frame any involvement that the U.S. may take as being noble and with "national security" aims. They were just showing some images on Al-J earlier of Bahrainian military personnel firing tear gas canisters in rapid succession at protesters a mere 5-10 feet away from them. Now that is something that would leave people wishing they had been shot rather than hit with a flaming projectile that can weigh upwards of a pound in the chest/neck/head/back. That is just cruelty in it's worst form.
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Feb 18, 2011 18:45
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Wahat are the odds that the UN gets involved in Bahrain? Bahrain is a member state, and they've already condemned the violence against protesters, but I haven't heard of any action taken other than that.
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Feb 18, 2011 19:03
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Narmi posted:Wahat are the odds that the UN gets involved in Bahrain? Bahrain is a member state, and they've already condemned the violence against protesters, but I haven't heard of any action taken other than that. They'd have to get things through the security council to do anything more, wouldn't they? I don't see that happening anytime soon.
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Feb 18, 2011 19:07
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Space Butler posted:They'd have to get things through the security council to do anything more, wouldn't they? I don't see that happening anytime soon. China generally would veto any attempt to interfere with "internal security" issues.
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Feb 18, 2011 19:12
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Protesting in countries that have dictators and police who will fire automatic weapons at citizens without a second thought is just so incredibly badass compared to protesting here.
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Feb 18, 2011 19:16
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Space Butler posted:They'd have to get things through the security council to do anything more, wouldn't they? I don't see that happening anytime soon. I know I'm being ridiculous but I would love it some 5th Fleet commander went rogue and drove a triage boat straight the gently caress in there to take on casualties.
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Feb 18, 2011 19:19
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Narmi posted:Wahat are the odds that the UN gets involved in Bahrain? Bahrain is a member state, and they've already condemned the violence against protesters, but I haven't heard of any action taken other than that. There's only a few countries that are not members of the UN. Perhaps they'll form a committee to study whether people are upset. Then they'll recommend that a committee be formed to look into whether the government should stop shooting people from helicopters. Then the Bahrainian government will pretend they didn't hear that recommendation.
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Feb 18, 2011 19:20
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Rosscifer posted:There's only a few countries that are not members of the UN. Perhaps they'll form a committee to study whether people are upset. Then they'll recommend that a committee be formed to look into whether the government should stop shooting people from helicopters.
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Feb 18, 2011 19:21
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The UN SC usually stays out of internal disputes like this. UNless it starts to threaten regional security or whatever.
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Feb 18, 2011 19:27
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Cull posted:I know I'm being ridiculous but I would love it some 5th Fleet commander went rogue and drove a triage boat straight the gently caress in there to take on casualties. I think we all would.
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Feb 18, 2011 19:40
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The UN is limited due to the fact that countries like China and Russia have veto powers over any actions. That's right, Russia and China, absolute dictatorial autocracies can veto any proposal for the United Nations to intervene in a countries disputes. What a poo poo system.
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Feb 18, 2011 19:49
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Lascivious Sloth posted:The UN is limited due to the fact that countries like The United States, China and Russia have veto powers over any actions. That's right, The United States, Russia and China, absolute dictatorial autocracies (sorta excepting the US for the time being) can veto any proposal for the United Nations to intervene in a countries disputes. I fixed it for you because you forgot the main offender of veto abuse euphronius posted:Well even if they weren't themselves bad governments, it is against the UN Charter to interfere in the way people seem to be talking about. That too, the security council is more about scolding people and declaring nonbinding resolutions, not creating international police actions. It's a diplomacy council, not a war room, and that flies over America's collective head pretty often. MrQwerty fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Feb 18, 2011 |
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Feb 18, 2011 19:50
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Lascivious Sloth posted:The UN is limited due to the fact that countries like China and Russia have veto powers over any actions. That's right, Russia and China, absolute dictatorial autocracies can veto any proposal for the United Nations to intervene in a countries disputes. Well even if they weren't themselves bad governments, it is against the UN Charter to interfere in the way people seem to be talking about. Cite: Article 2 paragraph 7 of the UN Charter
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Feb 18, 2011 19:52
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Can someone give any political and social details on the impact of Bahrain protests in relation to the Saudi Arabian Government/State? I know very little on the relationship between the two regions as well as religious and sectarian differences. What sort of outcome can we expect with Bahrain protests, both successful overthrowing and failure? I've heard on AJE that the protesters are waiting for the US and other countries to weigh in to the atrocities of killing peaceful protesters before they continue onto the square. What sort of relation does the US state department have with the Bahrainian Govt. and can/will that have any influence with our relationship with Saudi Arabia visa vi the previous question concerning their government's relation to Bahrain.
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Feb 18, 2011 19:57
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One one hand I hope Bernie Ecclestone cancels the Bahrain GP because it is the leaders pride and joy; but on the other hand he will go absolutely mental and a lot more people are going die. There was an article in the Times saying it would be decided on Tuesday/Wednesday depending on how the situation is, so this weekend has potential to be shockingly brutal. Not really sure how it can get much worse than automatic gunfire into crowds but the protesters are going to need a lot of courage if the protests are not to stop overnight. e:I wouldn't be suprised if he had more influence on Bahrains government than the US right now
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Feb 18, 2011 19:57
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Sivias posted:What sort of relation does the US state department have with the Bahrainian Govt. and can/will that have any influence with our relationship with Saudi Arabia visa vi the previous question concerning their government's relation to Bahrain. My guess is, "Well, we really need that Saudi oil soooooooooooo... It's cool, we'll just have Hillary give a speech where she mildly condemns you for wantonly murdering your own citizens. That's OK, right?"
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Feb 18, 2011 20:00
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 but i've waited so long for F1 to start up again.... Cant freedom wait until april!?
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Feb 18, 2011 20:02
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@MrQwerty Sorry for being obtuse, does this mean that the Saudi and Bahrain governments have close ties? (Apart from requiring it for geographical location) Does the establishment of the Bahranian government have a direct influence on the export of Saudi Oil?
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Feb 18, 2011 20:04
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Lascivious Sloth posted:That's hot
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Feb 18, 2011 20:06
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Sivias posted:@MrQwerty The Saudis have threatened to actively involve themselves in Bahrain. The leaders of the Gulf States are all close allies/relatives of the House of Saud, and have an agreement through the GCC that nobody is allowed to advance liberalization of their governments independently of the rest and etc.
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Feb 18, 2011 20:06
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Cull posted:I know I'm being ridiculous but I would love it some 5th Fleet commander went rogue and drove a triage boat straight the gently caress in there to take on casualties. Or a Patrol Boat could invoke the machine spirit of the U.S.S. Samuel B. Roberts and take on the entire Bahraini military by itself (which would still be less badass than what the original ship did).
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Feb 18, 2011 20:08
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So basically, Saudi Arabia is hosed. Every single nation around them are going through uprisings. Except Oman and the UAE, and Kuwait (Although the protests in southern Iraq can probably count as Kuwaiti protests to some extent.) Are there any reports for any sort of demonstrations happening within Saudi Arabia? I know they're considered the most conservative of all the Islamic middle eastern nations, and sedition is quite frowned upon, but they have to have some big concerns on what is happening all around them.
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Feb 18, 2011 20:11
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mattdizzleZ28 posted:
It doesn't really start till Australia anyway.
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Feb 18, 2011 20:11
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MrQwerty posted:The Saudis have threatened to actively involve themselves in Bahrain. The leaders of the Gulf States are all close allies/relatives of the House of Saud, and have an agreement through the GCC that nobody is allowed to advance liberalization of their governments independently of the rest and etc. In short, Bahrain will be a total bloodbath.  E: Libya is looking a bit more promising, though. 
Ogive fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Feb 18, 2011 |
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Feb 18, 2011 20:12
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