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The very end of the book when the crowd of Navy men shows up to cheer for him while he's placed in stocks ?
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May 17, 2011 00:20
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Raskolnikov2089 posted:That book is my absolute favorite in the series, all because of 2 pages. You'll know them when you come to them. Smashurbanipal posted:The very end of the book when the crowd of Navy men shows up to cheer for him while he's placed in stocks? That part legitimately gave me a big lump in my throat. Such a great moment.
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May 17, 2011 00:58
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CarterUSM posted:That part legitimately gave me a big lump in my throat. Such a great moment. And like most of the best things in the series, it really happened. Edit: If you read the authors note you'll know that almost everything that happened in that plot-line really happened. What's amazing is that we aren't done with Cochrane's exploits yet, you've got one hell of a doozy coming in a few more books that really happened also. Murgos fucked around with this message at 02:04 on May 17, 2011 |
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May 17, 2011 01:57
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It always makes me a little teary eyed to read it. When an author can make you care about a fictional character that much, you know you're in the hands of a master.
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May 17, 2011 02:07
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HMS Surprise is the book for me. Its plot encompasses all aspects of Aubrey and Maturins' personalities and shows their varying reactions to the demands of the service. The supporting characters: Bonden, Killick, Babbington et al. get fleshed out and somehow made more real. DV appears on scene to add more drama, and we get the fantastic line: Jack, you have debauched my sloth.
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May 17, 2011 14:32
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Raskolnikov2089 posted:That book is my absolute favorite in the series, all because of 2 pages. You'll know them when you come to them. Yeah, it is an amazing scene. Completely amazing and so beautifully written. Smashurbanipal posted:HMS Surprise is the book for me. Its plot encompasses all aspects of Aubrey and Maturins' personalities and shows their varying reactions to the demands of the service. The supporting characters: Bonden, Killick, Babbington et al. get fleshed out and somehow made more real. DV appears on scene to add more drama, and we get the fantastic line: Jack, you have debauched my sloth. I feel the same. It encapsulates the series perfectly. Next to Desolation Island it is probably the book I've reread most often.
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May 17, 2011 16:30
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Decius posted:I feel the same. It encapsulates the series perfectly. Next to Desolation Island it is probably the book I've reread most often. I have to agree with this also. Everything that happens in India in H.M.S. Surprise is incredible and probably my favorite part of the series. Also in Post Captain when Stephen sees DV in in the opera house at the end of the book was one of my favorite scenes as well.
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May 18, 2011 04:52
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I'm amused at how often O'Brian stresses that Sophia is prettier than Diana, but men just seem to be drawn towards DV nonetheless.
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May 18, 2011 20:58
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Smashurbanipal posted:I'm amused at how often O'Brian stresses that Sophia is prettier than Diana, but men just seem to be drawn towards DV nonetheless. DV plays billiards, smokes, drinks and gambles. She's much more fun to be around.
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May 18, 2011 21:24
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Murgos posted:DV plays billiards, smokes, drinks and gambles. She's much more fun to be around. Ya hear that, ladies? It is a mark of an excellent author though, that O'Brian could make the scenes that take place on land and at first read smacked to me of Austen so evocative and thus a pleasure to read.
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May 19, 2011 04:03
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It's funny, I actually started reading Jane Austen for pleasure after learning to enjoy Patrick O'Brian's prose.
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May 19, 2011 15:04
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Murgos posted:DV plays billiards, smokes, drinks and gambles. She's much more fun to be around. I think it's sortof implied that, basically, DV is more flirtatious and, well, for lack of a better term, more potentially willing to put out. Sophie's about as likely to cheat on Jack as the moon is to fall on your shoe, but Diana is, well, a fast woman.
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May 19, 2011 15:17
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I think it's sortof implied that, basically, DV is more flirtatious and, well, for lack of a better term, more potentially willing to put out. Sophie's about as likely to cheat on Jack as the moon is to fall on your shoe, but Diana is, well, a fast woman. At least until Diana and Clarissa explain (it all) to Sophie that she needs a good deep-dicking while that horndog, adultering jerk Jack is away!  I think it's hilarious that Dan Savage's "sometimes cheating can save a marriage" concept is in full force in these historical novels...
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May 19, 2011 17:41
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It's pretty obvious that DV IS more willing to put out. Channing and Maturin are two men in her life and there's lots more skulking about. She can pretty much do what she wants when we meet her. She's a widow, a fairly free position for a woman of her age and class considering the times. Beholden to nobody, other than that harpy Mrs. Williams, and that more for a veneer of respectability than for any financial reasons as far as I remember. Sophie on the other hand, is just the perfect little virginal young lady waiting about for a gentleman of wealth and stature to meet the approval of Mrs. Williams. Her biggest act of rebellion is continuing to see Jack when he is disgraced. Pretty much everyone wants to "date", if we can use that term here, DV but marry Sophie. Other than Maturin
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May 19, 2011 19:23
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Smashurbanipal posted:Sophie on the other hand, is just the perfect little virginal young lady waiting about for a gentleman of wealth and stature to meet the approval of Mrs. Williams. Her biggest act of rebellion is continuing to see Jack when he is disgraced. I enjoyed her sneaking out to see Jack at Bath. She was so amazed by how differently everything looked at night since she had never in her life been out so late. Definitely a delicate flower. She serves as a great contrast to DV, who I think I sympathize with more. Class for women of substance seemed more prison than privilege in a lot of ways, so I admire DV for saying "gently caress all" to polite society that would rather she quietly lapse into respectable spinsterdom. Raskolnikov2089 fucked around with this message at 19:49 on May 19, 2011 |
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May 19, 2011 19:47
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My God, a JEW'S mistress! Well I never...
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May 19, 2011 21:12
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CarterUSM posted:At least until Diana and Clarissa explain (it all) to Sophie that she needs a good deep-dicking while that horndog, adultering jerk Jack is away! At least they explain to her that sex doesn't have to be something that a women has to endure instead of enjoy if done right. Apparently Jack never has attended to her needs, which seems a bit surprising considering his apparently sexually healthy relationships that seemingly both parties enjoyed. But maybe he thought with his wife he should adhere to the Bible-induced missionary position and nothing else... Wow, that got creepy quickly.
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May 20, 2011 06:24
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Decius posted:But maybe he thought with his wife he should adhere to the Bible-induced missionary position and nothing else... Wow, that got creepy quickly. I'd guess that SHE actually though that. loving for pleasure? Oh my what a shocking thing to do for a good english wife...
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May 20, 2011 09:21
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Decius posted:At least they explain to her that sex doesn't have to be something that a women has to endure instead of enjoy if done right. Apparently Jack never has attended to her needs, which seems a bit surprising considering his apparently sexually healthy relationships that seemingly both parties enjoyed. But maybe he thought with his wife he should adhere to the Bible-induced missionary position and nothing else... Wow, that got creepy quickly. Yeah, but as I recall, Diana and Clarissa were actively encouraging her to have an affair with some Army officer while Jack was off at sea...
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May 20, 2011 20:01
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Has anyone else read David Donachie's stuff (By the Mast Divided and so on)? I am unsure as to whether or not it is worth committing to, but the premise thusfar is of an intellectual pressed into the service as an ordinary seaman, which is at least something new.
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May 21, 2011 19:01
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Tanith posted:Has anyone else read David Donachie's stuff (By the Mast Divided and so on)? I am unsure as to whether or not it is worth committing to, but the premise thusfar is of an intellectual pressed into the service as an ordinary seaman, which is at least something new. O'Brian has that happen a couple of times during his books. The person ends up being Aubrey's clerk or Maturin's assistant. It's an unfortunate part of the era that talent wasn't typically rewarded. The earlier pre-Napolean navy was largely based on merit, O'Brian comments on figures like William Mitchell who was 'flogged around the fleet' as a foremast hand but later rose to the rank of vice-admiral. The later era, as is mentioned repeatedly, you had to pass for a gentleman. I.e. come from well regarded birth and background. This is why Pullings despite numerous successful actions and the ability to take a frigate around the world has so much difficulty getting off the shore.
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May 22, 2011 17:31
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Murgos posted:This is why Pullings despite numerous successful actions and the ability to take a frigate around the world has so much difficulty getting off the shore. I think that also has to do with him being so visibly one of Jack's friends, and Jack's problems spilling over onto him. But yeah it doesn't help he can't say 'balcony' correctly.
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May 23, 2011 03:46
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So can anyone here explain to me what happens during the cricket game at the beginning of The Fortune of War? I get the impression that something highly amusing happens when Stephen gets up to bat but it went completely over my head.
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May 23, 2011 04:41
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Showpan posted:So can anyone here explain to me what happens during the cricket game at the beginning of The Fortune of War? I get the impression that something highly amusing happens when Stephen gets up to bat but it went completely over my head. He didn't understand the differences between cricket (which he hadn't played) and hurling (which he had). Hurling is an irish sport more like field hockey. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurling
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May 23, 2011 06:00
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withak posted:He didn't understand the differences between cricket (which he hadn't played) and hurling (which he had). Hurling is an irish sport more like field hockey. With what result? Could you go into more detail as to how that particular scene played out? Every time I get to it I spend like half an hour online trying to research cricket rules to no avail.
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May 23, 2011 13:59
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Why are the dogwatches so called?
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May 23, 2011 14:15
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^^^ Because they are CUR-TAILED  Hieronymous Alloy posted:With what result? Could you go into more detail as to how that particular scene played out? Every time I get to it I spend like half an hour online trying to research cricket rules to no avail. Jack was batting with Stephen on his team, and Stephen knocked down the wickets Jack was trying to defend. At least, that's how I remember it. I loved the lead up to the match, Jack commenting on how strange Stephen's cricket bat looked and Stephen saying he was a capital hurler.
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May 23, 2011 15:02
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I don't remember what exactly he did but it was basically the equivalent of walking out onto a basketball court to join a pickup game, drop-kicking the ball off the court, then taking a victory lap.
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May 23, 2011 15:07
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Smashurbanipal posted:Why are the dogwatches so called? As I understand it a normal watch is 4 hours long. A dogwatch is basically just a normal watch split between the two watches in the ship, each doing 2 hours.
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May 23, 2011 23:00
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:With what result? Could you go into more detail as to how that particular scene played out? Every time I get to it I spend like half an hour online trying to research cricket rules to no avail. In cricket, you are supposed to use your bat to defend your wicket (i.e. the three stumps with loose crosspieces that sit behind the batter). As such, cricket tends to be a defensive game from the batsman's point of view, since you don't HAVE to run unless you so choose. (Imagine in baseball, if a batter could just stand at home plate and decline to run on a hit ball, until he got one he liked) You could literally have a cricket batsman standing up at the wicket for over a hundred pitches. What Stephen did, on the other hand, was treat it like hurling, which as someone has said, is an Irish field sport more akin to field hockey...instead of tamely defending the wicket, like expected, he charged the ball, scooped it up with his stick, and (not understanding that the point in cricket is to NOT have the ball hit the wickets when you're batting) then swatted the ball directly into a wicket, thinking it was a goal, thus causing his team to lose. (Also: I am a bloody Yank who has watched all of one cricket match, so if I made a mistake, please correct me...)
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May 24, 2011 01:27
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I finished Thirteen Guns this morning. There are some pretty good comeuppances in that book, particularly Ledward and Wray, shot and then dissected for their spleens?! Wow!. I also feel like there was some pretty heavy handed foreshadowing, I'm going to put my predictions here and we will see what I get right... London is in financial turmoil, either Jack or Stephen have lost all their money, I'm leaning towards Stephen since he was having so much trouble with his bankers and having so much money has changed his behavior. Also! Fox went away on a boat after being insulted and having the Diane run aground. If Fox makes it to Batavia, I think he is going to make life tough on Jack during a court martial by talking about the articles of war that he violated.
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Jun 2, 2011 12:18
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CarterUSM posted:In cricket, you are supposed to use your bat to defend your wicket (i.e. the three stumps with loose crosspieces that sit behind the batter). As such, cricket tends to be a defensive game from the batsman's point of view, since you don't HAVE to run unless you so choose. (Imagine in baseball, if a batter could just stand at home plate and decline to run on a hit ball, until he got one he liked) You could literally have a cricket batsman standing up at the wicket for over a hundred pitches. Ok, thanks a great deal for that explanation. I could tell it was a great scene, I just couldn't interpret it -- it was like I was reading another language.
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Jun 2, 2011 15:34
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I'm reading "The Surgeon's Mate" now. I had totally forgotten that absolutely hysterical scene: When Jack, Stephen, and Jagiello are captured and transported to Paris by Duhamel...and Jack, Jagiello and Duhamel eat some bad crawfish along the way and are in poor shape by the time they arrive at the prison: "Their entrance into the grim ancient fortress was unlike any that Stephen had ever known. Duhamel had his door open before the carriage stopped, and followed by Jack and Jagiello, who trampled on Stephen and broke his larger bottle in their haste, he ran into the immense vaulted guard-room where those charged with receiving the prisoners sat among scaffolding and pails. With irresistible impetuosity they rushed past the deputy-governor, his secretary, the turnkeys and ran on, pale and earnest, down a dark corridor, Duhamel a good length ahead."
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Jun 2, 2011 19:37
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Just a suggestion for anyone who enjoys this series, the Flashman series by George MacDonald Frasier is amazing. None of them have anything much to do with the ocean, but they're some of my favorite historical fiction after Aubrey-Maturin.
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Jun 22, 2011 16:23
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Just chiming in to say I'm glad there's an Aubrey/Maturin thread here. I currently have just finished Book 9 (The Ionian Mission), and I intend to read my way through the whole series. To be honest, however, it feels like Stephen's marriage to Diana was the natural point at which to end the saga and from there we're just stretching time--even though I haven't gotten to the iconic book (Far Side of the World) yet. I noticed in the Ionian mission that I was up to page 150, and the Worcester hadn't even left harbor yet; the whole thing would have been all of 10 pages in an earlier A/M novel. The novels are still good and worth reading, but it feels like up to #7 (The Surgeon's Mate) brings the characters' arcs to a neater conclusion (well sort of, since Stephen's American archnemesis is still out there). I actually started on HMS Surprise, for some reason, but I think it's still my favorite book--the best in terms of balancing the action between Aubrey and Maturin, and still one of the best battle descriptions in the series. The Mauritus Command had an interesting setup, but kind of fizzled out I thought, the last battle being a little anticlimactic (and I still don't really understand what the point was of that flashy sloop captain killing himself at the end, it kind of spoiled the book for me) -Also, seconding the Flashman recommendation. So far I've only read Flashman & The Great Game, but that book was excellent both as a subversion of the typical stiff-upper lipped Victorian adventure, and as an action-adventure read in of itself. EDIT: Also funny about The Surgeon's Mate: the third Hornblower book (in order of release) has a pretty similar plot (Hornblower escapes captivity from the center of France and steals a fast brig to return to England) and that one seemed pretty clearly intended to be the last Hornblower book too (he's made Order of the Garter and gets to meet Prince George, anyway!) Harime Nui fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jun 30, 2011 |
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Jun 30, 2011 17:02
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I think there are better books after the Ionian Mission. They do slow down a lot but the stories actually get better.
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Jun 30, 2011 17:46
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Piedmon Sama posted:The Mauritus Command had an interesting setup, but kind of fizzled out I thought, the last battle being a little anticlimactic (and I still don't really understand what the point was of that flashy sloop captain killing himself at the end, it kind of spoiled the book for me) I just finished rereading it, which I was kinda putting off because I remembered it being less interesting than the other books. Well, I suppose it still it, but it was more enjoyable than I recalled. I think one of the reasons it has such a weird plot is from how closely it's based on the actual campaign, which I'm reading about now. So much stuff I thought was fictional wasn't; like the French general Des Brusley's suicide. Also, the map in the article really helps make sense of Clonfert's failed attack. One of my favorite things about the series is that on each reread the 'duller' sections get better and better. Foreshadowing, many hints about characters' motivations, jokes, so easy to miss the first time around.
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Jun 30, 2011 18:54
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Blog Free or Die posted:One of my favorite things about the series is that on each reread the 'duller' sections get better and better. Foreshadowing, many hints about characters' motivations, jokes, so easy to miss the first time around. So true. O'Brian packs so much character development into such sparse prose that I always discover new things on each read through.
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Jun 30, 2011 19:39
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Dunno if this thread's past the point of legit resurrection, but I wanted to say I've since read Master & Commander, Post Captain and The Far Side of the World. It's a interesting to contrast the younger and older Jack and Stephen--Jack seems to have gotten a lot stricter and more authorative, while Stephen's mellowed out since they were in their 30s. Since reading the first novel (which climaxes with the Cacafuego action everybody talks about in later novels) I've discovered the Xebec is my favorite type of vessel. Speeding on a foul wind and beating circles around boxy tallships like a boss, what! I also want to raise in The Ionian Mission's favor since I was complaining earlier, it has an extremely cool climactic battle. Marble cannon balls! Although it strikes me that it cut out very abruptly, just after the end of the action; the very same thing happens in Far Side of the World, as soon as we learn Jack and Stephen will be definitely saved or stand victorious: boom, done. Contrast to the long scenes following the climactic battle in the first four or five books, where O'Brien is clearly setting up his action for the next book. It just makes the later ones feel a little more haphazard, I guess.
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Aug 9, 2011 19:26
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O'Brian does that in a few of the novels, where he skips unneccessary description of battles or journeys or actions that, while they could add to the density of the plot, would not further character development. I enjoy that part of his writing, that he doesn't get caught up in the fan-boy bang-and-flash all the time.
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Aug 9, 2011 19:59
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