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silly posted:Six Frigates is amazing. One of the best works of military history I've ever read. True dat. Six Frigates is excellent. On the subject of the RN, though, I also recommend this: To Rule the Waves: How the British Navy Shaped the Modern World It's been a while since I read it, and I'm sure it's a bit thin on excruciating detail since, y'know, it's not three thousand pages long, but I remember it being pretty decent.
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Oct 27, 2011 04:14
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silly posted:I was about two-thirds of the way through Blue At The Mizzen when I forgot in a seat pocket on an airplane and decided that it was a sign. As long as I don't read the ending, the books don't end. You aren't alone. I'm on the last bit of Blue at the Mizzen now and I find myself reading other things just so I won't be quite done quite yet. I thought Jo Walton's end-comment for the series was great: quote:The thing Peter Weir understood solidly when he made his movie was that Jack and Stephen are best seen in motion, neither beginning nor ending a voyage, in the middle of a commission. All the quotations I have used as titles for this series of posts have been from the books, but this one is T.S. Eliot, from Four Quartets: http://www.tor.com/blogs/2011/02/forever-bailing-patrick-obrians-last-unfinished-novel-and-the-end-of-the-aubrey-matrurin-series
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Oct 28, 2011 16:07
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CarterUSM posted:True dat. Six Frigates is excellent. On the subject of the RN, though, I also recommend this: To Rule the Waves: How the British Navy Shaped the Modern World My father-in-law got me this (To Rule the Waves) for xmas a couple years ago, and it was a great read. One thing I really like about the novels is how Maturin is among many other things, a foil for the reader who also doesn't know anything about sailing/sails/ropes/sailing jargon/sea battles/the weather gauge. "Stephen, if I tell you, will you attend?" Also found this awesome diagram
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Dec 4, 2011 00:40
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Huggybear posted:My father-in-law got me this (To Rule the Waves) for xmas a couple years ago, and it was a great read. Nice standing rigging cheat sheet! I found a neat page that has very clear cutaways of the (horrible old) HMS Leopard, and figure that from there, most other ships can be imagined with various degrees of accuracy. http://www.lorkaest.de/Leopard/LorKaest2/Leopard_1.html
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Dec 6, 2011 07:41
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If you've finished the Aubrey/Maturin titles, don't forget to read The Unknown Shore. I think it's one of O'Brian's funniest books, though the main characters (recognizable prototypes of Jack and Stephen) suffer HORRIBLY throughout the second half of the story. A slightly different flavor overall, still really good stuff.
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Dec 7, 2011 12:07
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Alright, I've checked around where I think it occurs (I think it's in Thirteen Gun Salute), but I can't find a quotation. Stephen is writing a letter to Diana and writes something like, "When I was a child, I used to begin my letters with, "I am fine, I hope you are fine."" Anyone remember around where that is? I'm almost certain it's after Ionian Mission.
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Jan 7, 2012 01:23
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I started reading Master and Commander the other day. It's alright so far. I read and loved all the Hornblower novels last year, though Hornblower's self-esteem issues and constant assholery to Mr. Bush was a bit tiring. Captain Aubrey seems quite likeable in comparison. So I don't know what to think of the Aubrey-Maturin series yet. If I like it, my wallet is going to suffer a lot in the coming year. If I don't, no harm trying it out, I guess.
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Jan 7, 2012 06:53
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Octy posted:I started reading Master and Commander the other day. It's alright so far. I read and loved all the Hornblower novels last year, though Hornblower's self-esteem issues and constant assholery to Mr. Bush was a bit tiring. Captain Aubrey seems quite likeable in comparison. Oh I envy you getting to read them for the first time. You'll know after the first book if you like them (probably). I couldn't ever get into Hornblower precisely because Hornblower is such a dislikeable character. The only thing I can distinctly remember about Hornblower is that he was tone deaf; but the music room in the Governor's House at Port Mahon, that handsome, pillared octagon, will always be filled with the triumphant first movement of Locatelli's C major quartet.
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Jan 18, 2012 21:48
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Probably my favorite book series. I'm up to the Wine-Dark Sea this time around. If I were to pick one favorite it'd probably be The Ionian Mission, Jack at that point has a fair bit of prestige (he's been promised the Ajax, 44, and is going to be taking her to the prestigious North American station) and is basically killing time with a lovely old 74 while he's waiting for her to come off the docks. So you get to see this neat interplay between the old Surprises and the drafts from other ships that make up the other 500-odd of the Worcester's crew, with the old hands explaining how the doctor would charge you ten guineas for this on land, so you're lucky you're at sea, mate, and so on. One thing I'm curious about : did any of the rest of you goons know how to sail before you started reading these? I grew up racing small sailboats with my dad, so I pretty much knew what most of the rigging and sails were going in. (A modern sloop doesn't have royals but they do have jibs and halyards, for example)
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Jan 19, 2012 08:39
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Lord Yod posted:
I'd sailed on a sunfish but god no, most of the technical sail discussion was essentially in another language, one I'm still learning on my (fourth?) reread.
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Jan 19, 2012 15:13
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Lord Yod posted:One thing I'm curious about : did any of the rest of you goons know how to sail before you started reading these? I grew up racing small sailboats with my dad, so I pretty much knew what most of the rigging and sails were going in. (A modern sloop doesn't have royals but they do have jibs and halyards, for example) I knew starboard from larboard and stem from stern, but that's about it.
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Jan 19, 2012 15:27
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Oh I envy you getting to read them for the first time. I took a break from Master and Commander because of my other literary 'committments', so I only just started reading where I left off yesterday. I am starting to enjoying it more than I did. It has a slow start, but right round page 150 or so, with the fight with the Algerine galley (?), it really picks up. Mind you, I still feel lost when the writing becomes even slightly technical. My eyes glaze over when 'catharpin' and 'lateen sails' are mentioned.
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Feb 5, 2012 08:04
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Just purchased Master and Commander and Post Captain at the bookstore last night. Since I was a little kid I always had an interest in naval history and warfare to various degrees, so it would seem I am in for a treat. First time reading this series. Unfortunately, they didn't have A Sea of Words or anything, so I imagine I will be zoning out a bit once the nautical terms really start picking up.
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Feb 7, 2012 15:58
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The nice thing is that O'Brian pretty much expected that to be the reaction of non-sailors, so your job is to happily nod along like Maturin while checking a cheat sheet if you really want to try and get it. The idea that a sailing ship is a finely tuned machine is what's important, not the exact details, so feel free to skim a bit over rope chat. \/\/\/ Welp. Benagain fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Feb 7, 2012 |
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Feb 7, 2012 16:29
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Cable chat.
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Feb 7, 2012 17:11
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Octy posted:Mind you, I still feel lost when the writing becomes even slightly technical. My eyes glaze over when 'catharpin' and 'lateen sails' are mentioned. pixelbaron posted:Unfortunately, they didn't have A Sea of Words or anything, so I imagine I will be zoning out a bit once the nautical terms really start picking up. Sheets are really just ropes 'Fore' is in front (before) and aft rhymes with 'rear end' if you're juvenile like me 'Port' and 'left' have the same number of letters and are thus the same 'Larboard' is opposed to 'starboard' and, going on the above, is also 'left' 'Staysails' run up the ropes that make the masts stay upright 'Fore' and 'Main' and 'Mizzen' are alphabetically arranged front to back Think of the masts like social structure. The biggest bits are on the bottom (and often just called society/masts). Above them are the topmasts. Then you have the topgallants (like knights are gallant). Then you have the royals. After those bits, you can just substitute some word or phrase for the technical bits if you don't want to look something up right away. "Mr. Babbington, are those <things> going to be brought to the <other things> this watch or not?"
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Feb 7, 2012 20:57
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If the specifics of some nautical terminology are required to understand the plot then someone will stop and explain things to Dr. Maturin (i.e. you). If this doesn't happen then you can safely assume that the details of the jargon aren't critical.
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Feb 7, 2012 21:13
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ItalicSquirrels posted:Sheets are really just ropes You're forgetting that some of us are just retards at this kind of stuff. I know the basic things like fore and larboard but I prefer to just imagine what's happening in a very vague way. So I finished Master and Commmander before. I thought it was rather good. Very different writing style to Hornblower. There's also a hell of a lot of words in there that I've never heard of. Still, I was pleased to see the use of floccinaucipilification - the first time any author I've read has used it. I'll still buy the next book too, but it doesn't grab me in the same way as Hornblower did from the start.
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Feb 9, 2012 08:58
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I started reading a biography of Nelson, (this) and it's been really entertaining after the O'Brian series. Having a grasp of the setting makes it very enjoyable. Although Nelson doesn't figure much in the series, the book also has a lot of information on men that do, like St. Vincent, Lord Keith, Henry Dundas and more, so you get a sense of the character of some of the people Jack locks horns with. It's also nice reading about real line-of-battle fleet engagements, which I don't recall occurring in the series past the first book. Just got through the battle of the Nile and it's pretty great. If you hadn't been through the O'Brian, you might not be able to picture what's going on when you read "...Tom Foley in Goliath rounded Guerrier's stem and poured a full double-shotted broad-side through it..." Goliath was a 74. That's 1700 pounds of metal.  If you like biographies, might be worth checking out. Some of the poo poo Nelson did is pretty ridiculous.
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Feb 27, 2012 00:58
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Bah, Nelson is nothing compared to my beloved Pellew. Actually, this kind of stuff is what I really admire about all those historical figures from back then, specifically in the Royal Navy. It didn't matter if you were a commodore or a lieutenant - in the midst of battle you're just as likely as an ordinary sailor to be killed by a stray musket shot or blinded by splinters from cannon balls tearing up the ship.
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Feb 27, 2012 07:21
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Octy posted:So I finished Master and Commmander before. I thought it was rather good. Very different writing style to Hornblower. There's also a hell of a lot of words in there that I've never heard of. Still, I was pleased to see the use of floccinaucipilification - the first time any author I've read has used it. I'll still buy the next book too, but it doesn't grab me in the same way as Hornblower did from the start. Give it time. I had the exact same problems when I started reading the series for the first time. Once you are accustomed to it, O'Brians language and style becomes much easier to understand and enjoy. After you have some more books under your belt, you will really start to see his superb storytelling, charactarizations and character development. You will probably be hooked at that time.
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Feb 27, 2012 08:53
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Nektu posted:Give it time. I had the exact same problems when I started reading the series for the first time. Once you are accustomed to it, O'Brians language and style becomes much easier to understand and enjoy. I bought Post Captain and HMS Surprise with a gift voucher last week and I'm meant to be getting the next two books after that as a birthday present from someone. So I suppose I'd better start liking it soon.
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Feb 27, 2012 11:09
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Octy posted:I bought Post Captain and HMS Surprise with a gift voucher last week and I'm meant to be getting the next two books after that as a birthday present from someone. So I suppose I'd better start liking it soon. Haha! There's an old Peanuts comic strip where Linus is talking about reading the Brothers Karamazov, another character is surprised he's reading it, and Linus says "when I come to a word I can't pronounce, I just BEEP right over it!" and that's pretty much what you have to do with the cablechat on your first read through.
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Feb 27, 2012 21:05
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Octy posted:I bought Post Captain and HMS Surprise with a gift voucher last week and I'm meant to be getting the next two books after that as a birthday present from someone. So I suppose I'd better start liking it soon. There is a good chance that you will  Being a tad overwhelmed when reading the first book for the very first is not that uncommon.
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Feb 29, 2012 10:28
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I'm making my way from one novel to another, and I'm currently reading The Far Side of the World (how different things are from the movie of the same name!). I do have one nagging thing I need explained to me from earlier in the series, though. It's from The Fortune of War. I'll put the question in spoilers: Okay, what went on with the (seemingly) insane inmates that confronted Jack? It looks to me that they really were American navy agents and jack only mistook them for crazy people. But at some point, one of them seemed to threaten Jack with a blade, shaving some of his arm hair. That doesn't seem like something an American official would do. I am totally confused as to wether those people were American Naval intelligence or just crazy people. Can someone clear this up for me?
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Mar 1, 2012 05:13
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Rexim posted:Okay, what went on with the (seemingly) insane inmates that confronted Jack? It looks to me that they really were American navy agents and jack only mistook them for crazy people. But at some point, one of them seemed to threaten Jack with a blade, shaving some of his arm hair. That doesn't seem like something an American official would do. I am totally confused as to wether those people were American Naval intelligence or just crazy people. IIRC, the actual patients there were legitimate lunatics. The joke is that Jack is having great fun playing along with them and he continues to pretend to be crazy the one time an actual American interrogator visits to question him.
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Mar 1, 2012 05:27
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withak posted:IIRC, the actual patients there were legitimate lunatics. The joke is that Jack is having great fun playing along with them and he continues to pretend to be crazy the one time an actual American interrogator visits to question him. I think Jack didn't get that those officials were real officials - after all he was surrounded by people that all the time pretended to be the emperor of china and whatnot. And as to the threats against his person: don't only think "government officials" but also "intelligence agents" - the that become more believiable.
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Mar 1, 2012 10:01
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Rexim posted:I'm making my way from one novel to another, and I'm currently reading The Far Side of the World (how different things are from the movie of the same name!). I think you've mixed up two different groups of people. One group Jaleel Brenton, the man who leaned his chair against the door, and I think maybe a bailiff (not sure) actually were Navy agents who asked some very leading and very stupid questions trying to get Jack into hot water, politically speaking. Then there's the other group. The dude who shaved hair from his arm (Butcher something, one of the first group recognized him), the Emperor of Mexico, the woman whose husband 'put her to a dog', Aunt Putnam the werewolf, and all the rest actually are lunatics, put into the asylum. The problem came up when the first group came in and the man introduced himself as Jaleel Brenton. In the Royal Navy, there is a Loyalist captain by the same name, so Jack assumed that this man from the first group was part of the second group. This leads to his declaration that he's the son of the Pope, that the whole Admiralty is composed of Catholics, and that he blasted the <ship he supposedly attacked> out of the water, all of it horseshit made up to fit in with the nutjobs that usually inhabit the asylum. This admission becomes almost impossible to retract when it turns out that the first group are not inmates but government officials and intelligence agents (more like desk jockeys at Langley than a CIA spook like Maturin is). So take heart that you made the same mistake as Jack!
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Mar 1, 2012 14:16
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Nektu posted:There is a good chance that you will I am starting to appreciate and understand O'Brian's language more, so it's been an enjoyable read through the second so far, rather than the slog that the first book was. :P
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Mar 7, 2012 09:29
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Yeah, the readability improves immensely as the series goes on. Not that the first book is bad, of course. On each subsequent readthrough I've enjoyed it more and more; it's just less accessible, I think. Plus being introduced to characters you know so well, and seeing them so young, is great. Oh Babbington 
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Mar 8, 2012 01:02
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CarterUSM posted:True dat. Six Frigates is excellent. On the subject of the RN, though, I also recommend this: To Rule the Waves: How the British Navy Shaped the Modern World I finished six frigates and I've been reading this. After I finish it I'm moving onto wooden ships & iron men. To Rule the Waves is good so far, francis drake just looted the pacific coast of spanish south america and is running north.
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Mar 27, 2012 17:00
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I'm reading The Thirteen Gun Salute and I just got to the part where Stephen apparently kills Wray and Ledward, and then dissects the corpses. 
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Mar 30, 2012 04:34
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Stephen is ice loving cold. I've been thinking of the series a lot lately due to reading Kim, by Rudyard Kipling. If anyone liked the part with the Indian girl in HMS Surprise, Dil, check out Kim. The way he acts, and life he lives, is incredibly similar. apart from the whole being heartbreakingly murdered part 
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Mar 30, 2012 06:58
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Rexim posted:I'm reading The Thirteen Gun Salute and I just got to the part where Yeah, Maturin is not just ice cold, he's very cunning as well, taking advantage of every opportunity that fortune presents. He managed to get in the good graces of various court officials and then orchestrated the downfall of Wray and Ledward, based on the undercurrents of jealousy about the sultan's catamite. Ledward picked the wrong boy to be two-timing with.
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Mar 30, 2012 22:07
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I finished To Rule The Waves. Pretty interesting stuff. Any other recommendations?
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Apr 24, 2012 18:18
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About to finish The Mauritius Command. I've got the next two books lying in wait. I have to say, this series gives me what I suppose to be a much more realistic portrayal of life at sea. Oh, I'm sure there wasn't much cello playing and deep philosophical conversations for most, but I'm really describing the naval actions that come with a much darker quality than in Hornblower, which always seemed to focus on the heroic, superhuman abilities of the title character as well as his friends (Except poor Captain Bush). I do have to put the book aside quite often though to look up all these words. 'Malversation' is a good one: usually meaning misconduct in public office. I saw it used in a classics paper from 1964 by an H.W. Pleket recently, which means O'Brian isn't just making this stuff up. :P I have a half-formed desire to use it in an essay soon as well. Octy fucked around with this message at 08:51 on May 14, 2012 |
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May 14, 2012 08:48
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Octy posted:About to finish The Mauritius Command. I've got the next two books lying in wait. I have to say, this series gives me what I suppose to be a much more realistic portrayal of life at sea. Oh, I'm sure there wasn't much cello playing and deep philosophical conversations for most, but I'm really describing the naval actions that come with a much darker quality than in Hornblower, which always seemed to focus on the heroic, superhuman abilities of the title character as well as his friends (Except poor Captain Bush). Yeah he doesn't actually invent words, but often his sources are crazily esoteric. The best example is probably "marthambles" -- one of the diseases Stephen treats the sailors for. It's only recorded instance prior to O'Brian was in a single quack patent-medicine circular from the period, so no one even knows what it means beyond "a disease"; it could even be something the patent medicine seller invented. Most of O'Brian's sea battles are based on records of actual combats, he's just dropped Aubrey and Maturin in to replace the commanders or whatever. You can read up the actual conquest of Mauritius on wikipedia, for example. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 12:34 on May 14, 2012 |
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May 14, 2012 12:31
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Living in a loft apartment with four other men, I've gained a newfound appreciation for the "we're all going to act as if we can't hear what's on the other side of this wall" aspect of shipboard life.
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May 14, 2012 15:58
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Someone in GWS is trying out the Aubrey/Maturin cookbook, figured it deserved a crosspost.
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May 15, 2012 03:31
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The raspberry shrub recipe in that book has become the staple drink I bring to parties. It's goddamned delicious. As a warning, though, it has to sit for six months to be excellent, four to be really good, and a month to not taste like "brandy with raspberries in it".
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May 15, 2012 13:10
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