|
I read this series (except the unfinished one) a couple of years ago and I'm starting a re-read of it now. It's such an odd body of work. The writing can be (and usually is) excellent, but the author's willingness to have so many major plot points settled by deus ex machina (usually happening outside the observation of any of the characters) is just bizarre. I guess it's realistic but it flies in the face of what I consider the basic rules of writing.
|
#
¿
Jun 20, 2019 23:40
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 3, 2024 20:04 |
|
|
Phenotype posted:
Diana and Mrs. Williams and several other characters IIRC dying in a coach accident. It was the most glaring example by far, O'Brien seemed like he just got tired of them and wanted those plot threads cut as expeditiously as positive.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 23, 2019 04:41
|
|
|
Which this thread title makes us all look like a pack of God-damned lubbers  You don't hoist the mainsail, you let fall the mainsail.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 1, 2019 04:33
|
|
|
Almost done with the series again, and I have to say I honestly prefer the books where they're sailing on a ship other than the Surprise. Reason being that she's essentially a third main character in the story and you know that whatever happens, she isn't going to sink or get irrevocably harmed, whereas if it's the Polychrest or the Diane or the horrible old Leopard, anything can happen.ovenboy posted:Puddings, my dear sir? Puddings. We trice 'em athwart the starboard gumbrils, when sailing by and large. I feel practiced upon 
|
|
#
¿
Sep 6, 2019 23:56
|
|
|
In a series that's all about clever tiny throwaway lines, one that stuck with me on this re-read is when they meet up with a fleet and the flagship hoists signals and somebody (probably Tom Pullings) reads it out as "Report aboard flag captain and P-H-I-Z...the signals mid cannot spell."
|
|
#
¿
Sep 8, 2019 14:56
|
|
|
Not only does he play, but he plays much more skillfully than Stephen. He's also an accomplished mathematician and astronomer who has presented papers before the Royal Society. He's very much a multifaceted character.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 9, 2019 17:00
|
|
|
Fire Safety Doug posted:Same, really. I sometimes feel like a real dummy because I still can't grasp even the basics of how wind and sails interact I've seen the diagrams and everything, but may brain says "wind from behind, go forward fast, wind from ahead, going nowhere". But then of course the wind pushes the waves as well, and... Well, let's say I would have failed the midshipman's examination. I have the same problem, I've read explanations about how the physics works but the only time I've been on a sailing vessel was with a small Bermuda-rigged (see, Wikipedia has taught me that much at least) boat, and I was a kid at the time and barely remember it anyway. The Painted Ocean program that Pishtaco made and posted further up the thread is really cool and is actually more helpful than reading, I think. I just tried it out and managed to get out of the harbor (after starting out by going backwards and almost running aground like a God-damned lubber  ). If you set all the sails to "trim" then they'll automatically adjust for optimum performance and that's helpful to see. I haven't tried sailing into the wind yet though, or tacking.Thank you Pishtaco for publishing that!
|
|
#
¿
Oct 9, 2019 18:51
|
|
|
I have absolutely nothing to offer in terms of knowledge for making it more realistic, hah. I think I'll give it another go and see if I can tack, and then maybe I'll try to slope away (to use the proper nautical term) towards the Americas.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 9, 2019 22:57
|
|
|
Tiny thing I have a question on. The phrase "fighting over a chest" is used several times in the series, and from context it's clearly some kind of non-lethal duel, but does anyone know what it actually means? The only thing I can think of is that it could be a fistfight with a chest set on the deck between the fighters, to keep them from getting really close to each other.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 30, 2019 18:50
|
|
|
^^^ That gets referenced in some Terry Pratchett book, I recall. There's a punchline about how you have to buy two of them, because after all, you gotta catch the horse after you've livened it up. Also, a fistfight sitting on the ends of a chest makes perfect sense, thanks, it's exactly the kind of handicap you'd put on your people to make it less likely (although of course not impossible) that someone gets beaten too badly to keep up their work. Although if it was arm wrestling, that makes it even more hilarious that youngster Jack and Heneage Dundas decided that since they were forbidden to fight over a chest, they had no choice but to duel with cutlasses ashore  Arglebargle III posted:Isn't Sophie like 28 in that exchange? So messed up how women were infantilized. Women in the series in general certainly don't seem to be, it's specifically Sophie's mother who is such a tyrant, and Sophie is dutiful to a fault. Kylaer fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Oct 31, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Oct 31, 2019 20:54
|
|
|
builds character posted:He gives her silver bracelets and she's super happy about it but then gets murdered for them. Yes, that's what happens, but I think freebooter is asking why it happens, why O'Brian thought that would be a good story arc to include, what it's supposed to illustrate. And my own sort-of-answer is that I don't think this is looking at the books the right way. I don't think O'Brian tended to write things with a "why" in mind, he just penned whatever scenes came into his thoughts. There's no moral to the story, any more than there is to real life.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2020 00:47
|
|
|
I may have worded that more harshly than I should have, but surely you have to agree with me that there's a great deal in these books that happens without any "reason." I think this was intentional and that it was meant to echo the way lots of things happen in real life without a reason - people dying in random accidents, that sort of thing.Sax Solo posted:I'm still wondering what was the deal with the child "bed companion" in Pulo Prabang in the Thirteen Gun Salute. I didn't pick up on her being described as a child, I thought she was an adult prostitute and it was just another example of what an oddball Maturin is (and maybe a bit of intentional misdirection on his part to make people misjudge him). Maturin may have referred to her as a child (although I don't remember him doing so) but he routinely does that to women who are adults.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2020 01:43
|
|
|
PhantomOfTheCopier posted:
Or the biggest example, Diana and Mrs Williams.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 22, 2020 01:48
|
|
|
I'm not sure why it's done that way either, but unfortunately I did read in an article about the show Deadwood that the profanity is one of the things that isn't period-accurate  Among other things, the use of the word "loving" as a general emphasis word (see: "a loving jelly" above) was a 20th-century development, definitely not something that would have made sense to an English speaker in the early 19th.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 24, 2020 15:27
|
|
|
jerman999 posted:I mean Stephen did ambush, kill, and dissect two dudes in the jungle, the latter part perhaps good for eliminating evidence but maybe extreme? No sense letting a good spleen go to waste.
|
|
#
¿
May 21, 2020 19:24
|
|
|
There's one tiny scene, I forget what book it's in, where Maturin is dissecting a bird and points out to Jack how the sternum and muscles are functioning like the rigging of a ship to stabilize everything, and Jack grasps it immediately. I always thought that was neat.
|
|
#
¿
May 27, 2020 14:19
|
|
|
You need some stout deckhands who can sling you over the side in a net and row you back to your own ship.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 9, 2020 00:49
|
|
|
Big-budget multiseason Aubrey-Maturin series announced (monkey's paw curls) as an anime.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 16, 2020 20:40
|
|
|
Genghis Cohen posted:and then everyone ran down the side into it. Except Stephen 
|
|
#
¿
Oct 31, 2020 19:34
|
|
|
So, what kind of ranges would naval cannons of the Napoleonic era be effective at? I know some of the battles were fought yardarm-to-yardarm but Jack emphasizes quick, accurate "long-range" gunnery when training his crews, but in all the books I never really got a sense of what kind of range is being described. I know theoretically a cannonball can travel quite far, but what would a realistic maximum effective range be? 200 yards? 500 yards?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 17, 2021 21:51
|
|
|
I just started reading the nonfiction book Six Frigates, which is about the early days of the American navy, and during a description of Thomas Jefferson's extended visit to France and his communications back home, there was this:quote:In a letter of June 1786, Madison opened with a paragraph on political developments in Virginia and then continued: For want of something better to fill the remainder of my paper, I will now add the result of my examination two days ago of another of our minor quadrupeds. I mean a Weasel. The description of the animal and its internal organs filled eight long paragraphs. Thirty-eight different anatomical measurements were recorded in an appended table. Maturin's got some competition Bubbacub posted:I think Weir originally wanted the Acheron to be an American frigate, but the studio was concerned about audiences being confused. They could have just had Mel Gibson in a brief cameo role as captain of the American frigate and everything would have made sense. Kylaer fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Jul 16, 2021 |
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2021 14:31
|
|
|
freebooter posted:On my first read-through (across many years, I like to ration them) and just finished 19, The Hundred Days. Without spoiling too much for what remains, can anyone illuminate me on: IIRC that's exactly what happened. And yes, it's a very weird thing, not just that it happens but how little anyone seems to care.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 18, 2022 12:48
|
|
|
It's possible, but O'Brian does have a tendency to both create and later resolve major problems for his characters entirely offscreen with no input from the characters themselves. It feels kind of lazy, in that he wants a stumbling block for the sake of the overall plot and later doesn't need it so it gets cleared in the same fashion it was created. Prime example, minor spoilers and can't remember what books these took place in: Aubrey's father mucks around in politics, makes people mad and sabotages Aubrey's career. Later he dies and without his ongoing political meddling, Aubrey's career can advance again. I get that it's realistic that characters are subject to things happening outside of their control, but it still feels lazy.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 20, 2022 19:55
|
|
|
freebooter posted:
The obvious answer to the difficulties of filming is to adapt the series as an anime 
|
|
#
¿
Jul 22, 2022 12:55
|
|
|
withak posted:Anime is poison. This is a cursed monkey paw wish being granted.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 22, 2022 16:18
|
|
|
withak posted:At one point Jack says something like he thinks it is bad for discipline but he doesn't like to see an otherwise good sailor punished for it. And that, IIRC, is specifically because it's a captain having relations with a member of his crew, which definitely is something likely to give rise to problems. Interestingly, he paints the crew as generally thinking their captain is a good one despite his inclination, and one of the officers fights a duel with an officer of another ship who insulted the captain. I cannot for the life of me remember what book this all takes place in, somewhere in the middle of the series I think. I think for an author writing in the mid-to-later part of the 20th century, aiming to provide a realistic window into the early part of the 19th century, it's quite progressive.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 23, 2022 14:47
|
|
|
I think Clonfert desperately wanted to be a hero but didn't have the understanding, the personality, or the luck to pull it off. I don't remember anything related to sexuality being involved.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 26, 2022 20:31
|
|
|
Babbington is out there trying to score like Beavis and Butthead, except more militaristic and also more successful.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 14, 2022 18:42
|
|
|
It's honestly not even very long, it just feels long because of the way it's written. The other books are quite short, Post Captain is longer but it's certainly not a tome.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 15, 2022 22:51
|
|
|
A Proper Uppercut posted:God drat I can't believe these books are actually getting me interested in sailing, or at least the mechanics of it. I've read the series multiple times and read several Wikipedia articles and other things about sailing mechanics and I still cannot wrap my head around how staysails and especially jib sails work. A square-rigged sail running before the wind, that's super easy to understand. A square-rigged sail going into the wind is conceptually more difficult but I at least vaguely understand the Bernoulli principle and how airfoils work so I can grasp it. A fore-and-aft sail on a swinging boom as is the common modern rig for personal sailing craft I also vaguely understand, or at least think I do. But how in the world staysails do anything, I just cannot get 
|
|
#
¿
Oct 12, 2022 18:41
|
|
|
withak posted:They work like a wing, just instead of lift pulling up it is pulling horizontal perpendicular to the surface of the sail. Under the right conditions (sailing into the wind) a component of that can be pulling in a useful direction. I get that, that's airfoil physics. I understand how square-rigged sails can sail into the wind, because the spars get turned so that the whole sail is at an angle to the ship. But the geometry of the staysails confounds me. They're secured at three points that are all contained within the central longitudinal plane of the ship - one point to the mast in front of them, two to the mast behind them. How do they generate force in any direction other than "knock the ship over sideways?"
|
|
#
¿
Oct 12, 2022 19:23
|
|
|
Ravenfood posted:I thought they help keep the the ship from veering to windward while tacking. So they are just there to knock the ship over sideways, just not big enough to do it. Holy gently caress. So they don't actually move the ship forward at all? 
|
|
#
¿
Oct 12, 2022 19:37
|
|
|
jazzyjay posted:Invidious is a capital word, it must be said. Another clever thing that I didn't remember until I re-read the book is that Jack doesn't fire the fatal shot, the marine officer does, while Jack has been knocked to the deck by a splinter.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 7, 2023 22:29
|
|
|
And the hell of it is that Clonfert isn't even a bad captain. He's just not great, and knows it, and he wants to be great more than anything in life. He wants Aubrey's reputation and he just doesn't quite have what it takes to achieve it, and it kills him.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 8, 2023 13:58
|
|
|
My confession: I cannot for the life of me keep the book titles straight. I remember lots of scenes clearly but damned if I could tell you which books they're from, and if you mention the title of any book besides the first three I have not the faintest idea what happens in it
|
|
#
¿
Jun 5, 2023 12:13
|
|
|
Nuclear War posted:Someone post the picture. you know the one 
|
|
#
¿
Jun 10, 2023 12:23
|
|
|
It's fine to skip it, it's also fine to skip the first half and start reading when they're actually at sea. It's quite a short book but it feels so much longer, I agree. I'm also not a Jane Austen fan and it's an homage to her work.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 9, 2023 12:55
|
|
|
screaden posted:I feel like Post Captain is kind of integral in setting up a lot of very long and very important storyb and character threads that continue on though the stories that you shouldn't skip it. It's definitely the longest in the series but that's because all the other ones are really short  I meant that compared to the doorstop tomes of trash fiction I routinely read through, Post Captain is short but feels longer, I just wasn't clear about that.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 9, 2023 18:19
|
|
|
She was working for Mr. Johnson. It was a Shadowrun story all along.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 18, 2023 00:26
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 3, 2024 20:04 |
|
|
He does clean a patient's skin with alcohol before making an incision in at least one scene, IIRC, because he believes that "the cooling effect helps reduce pain" or something along those lines. But yeah, he doesn't have the faintest idea about cleanliness mattering and most of his medicines are just laxatives or things to induce vomiting, and of course opium. Oh, and the scene in some book late in the series where he treats atrial fibrillation with digitalis, which really was a valid treatment, and the admiral so treated subsequently overdosing himself to death in the commonplace belief that if a little was good, more must be better, which is also medically accurate
|
|
#
¿
Sep 19, 2023 23:20
|
|