|
My favourite series of books. I must have reread every book at least 5 times in the 15 years since I discovered it (back then in German, but thanks to the - I assume - mediocre sales (they changed publisher, and even more often translators and in the end even from hardcover to paperback format) I soon switched to the English original. Probably the books that taught me most about English, surely more than school ever did). It's not only the world building that's fascinating and so well done, the friendship and characters of Maturin and Aubrey, with all their strengths and many, many faults, but also all the "secondary" characters from Pullings down to Killick and Padeen. Even the "antagonists" like Captain Harte (and many more without spoilering later books) are delightful to read. The many callbacks over the series to earlier events are very fun too, seeing how the outlook of Aubrey and Maturin has changed over the (fictional) years. And of course the language used, which O'Brian wields like a scalpel, always beautiful, very poetic and very, very witty and funny, although the joke is often very deeply hidden. You're indeed in for a ride, albeit a slow one (how else to capture the weeks and months of boredom when becalmed or doing blockade duty at Brest?), but a beautiful one. One word of warning though - the second book completely changes tone (and setting for the most part), it reads very much like a Jane Austen novel. It is a great book for what it is, but it differs very much from the rest of the series. So if you get bored with it, don't give up, it pays off, since it has some of the most important events of the whole series in it, that lays the groundwork for the next 13/20 years. Showpan posted:On another note, I have heard that if you read Aubrey/Maturin first then the Hornblower series can be a little bit disappointing. Any truth to that, or should I get on board with those books as well? It was for me at least. The Hornblower books are great, great fun. Well written action novels. But barely more than action novels. They are quite shallow compared to O'Brian's books which have so much more in them. Also, Forrester didn't his research quite as well as O'Brian did, and if you have read O'Brian first you very easily spot mistakes and things that are incorrect or impossible (because ships didn't work this way). I would recommend them, but don't expect the same level of craftsmanship from Forrester as from O'Brian. Decius fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Mar 4, 2011 |
#
¿
Mar 4, 2011 07:11
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 1, 2024 19:12 |
|
|
Raskolnikov2089 posted:So it's really not my trying to turn this into Twilight, but I kind of view Jack Aubrey and Stephen Maturin as a gay couple when I'm reading this. The following rant isn't aimed at you, your post is just a convenient starting point, for a pet peeve of mine with fiction (mostly TV and movies) and the need to be "manly" and in no way have a seemingly "gay" relationship with other men in today's media: I don't quite understand why intense friendship without sexual undertones is such an alien concept nowadays, that it must become automatically associated with gay (or end in a relationship if between men and women)? They are such a large part of history and stories in the past. I'm sure such friendships haven't suddenly disappeared, even if they are only "kosher" in media when between soldiers in a "Band of Brother"-like scenario. Neither Jack nor Stephen, neither Frodo nor Sam, neither Bones nor Kirk want to have a sexual relationship with men or the other person. Isn't that the definition of the difference between friendship and relationship? The former is without sexual undertones, the latter with (and actual sex hopefully). I'm sure O'Brian would be the last one having issues with writing them as gay couple if he wanted them to be gay, there isn't a shortage of gay characters in his books after all (although mostly secondary characters). Although yes, it is an intense friendship, with lot of chemistry and friction too, which does resemble at times - very often even - a married couple. Murtaugh totally wanted into Riggs pants though. Just look at the luxurious hair of Riggs. Decius fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Mar 9, 2011 |
|
#
¿
Mar 9, 2011 08:04
|
|
|
It is not necessary to read the books between, especially since "The Far Side of the World" is rather self-contained, but of course it is very helpful, since the life of the protagonists developed a lot between the two books. Marriage, children, Stephen being a spy, the war of 1812 and Stephen's/Jack's involvement in it, various missions that get referred etc.
Decius fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Mar 13, 2011 |
|
#
¿
Mar 13, 2011 11:09
|
|
|
It is a foundation of his character, a means to deal with his inability of attaining Diana's love (note how he goes into thousands of drops a night when things look hopeless in this regard, and is nearly off the drug when everything goes fine). It influences some of his decisions, and makes him prone to errors at times. It also is an important thing setting up a plot line that goes on over a few books Padeen weaning him off it by mistake and his taking a full dose in Sweden, nearly dying from it, continued with Padeen's deportations to Australia because of his addiction fuelled rage attack. But yeah, he's always addicted to something, cocoa leaves being the most benign of his drugs.
Decius fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Apr 9, 2011 |
|
#
¿
Apr 9, 2011 11:38
|
|
|
Pharnakes posted:I take it cocoa leaves is basicaly unrefined cocaine? It's basically at the same level of drugs cannabis is at, only that instead of hungry and high you are awake and active, it also reduces perception of pain and allows you to overstress your body more. It's everywhere in Western South America, and yes it is the unrefined form of cocaine.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2011 06:06
|
|
|
Smashurbanipal posted:I realize this is kind of off topic, but I'm interested in any good histories of the Spanish involvement in the Napoleonic wars. My knowledge on this is fairly limited and it seems to be a generally neglected area. Trafalgar and Salamanca seem to sum it up for most people. Suggestions? Only Naval or also the land war (from which we got the word guerilla after all)? For the latter this is a pretty interesting book: The Fatal Knot. I don't know of any books especially about the naval involvement of the Spanish fleet, it is however touched upon several dealing with the general naval war between France and Britain.
|
|
#
¿
May 10, 2011 06:19
|
|
|
I also enjoyed the movie a lot, despite the freedom they took with depicting Maturin. Having a bunch of amazing actors for basically every role didn't hurt either, even if they weren't quite as the description of the characters in the books.
|
|
#
¿
May 14, 2011 15:33
|
|
|
Raskolnikov2089 posted:That book is my absolute favorite in the series, all because of 2 pages. You'll know them when you come to them. Yeah, it is an amazing scene. Completely amazing and so beautifully written. Smashurbanipal posted:HMS Surprise is the book for me. Its plot encompasses all aspects of Aubrey and Maturins' personalities and shows their varying reactions to the demands of the service. The supporting characters: Bonden, Killick, Babbington et al. get fleshed out and somehow made more real. DV appears on scene to add more drama, and we get the fantastic line: Jack, you have debauched my sloth. I feel the same. It encapsulates the series perfectly. Next to Desolation Island it is probably the book I've reread most often.
|
|
#
¿
May 17, 2011 16:30
|
|
|
CarterUSM posted:At least until Diana and Clarissa explain (it all) to Sophie that she needs a good deep-dicking while that horndog, adultering jerk Jack is away! At least they explain to her that sex doesn't have to be something that a women has to endure instead of enjoy if done right. Apparently Jack never has attended to her needs, which seems a bit surprising considering his apparently sexually healthy relationships that seemingly both parties enjoyed. But maybe he thought with his wife he should adhere to the Bible-induced missionary position and nothing else... Wow, that got creepy quickly.
|
|
#
¿
May 20, 2011 06:24
|
|
I think it's hilarious that Dan Savage's "sometimes cheating can save a marriage" concept is in full force in these historical novels...
|
Lanky Coconut Tree posted:I sort of stopped reading after 'The Commodore', is the ending of Blue at the Mizzen better than that? It ends with Jack achieving exactly what the title of the book says. It ends for Stephen on a positive note regarding his love life. Yeah, I'd say it's a pretty perfect ending.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 5, 2011 08:27
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:The best thing to do is just make the dive and grab the box set here: The editing/spell checking was pretty bad with this edition as far as I know.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 18, 2011 09:31
|
|
|
BananaNutkins posted:All the animal gags are amazing, but my favorite will always be the sloth. I'm very partial too the bees, making Jack's cabin into a combat zone.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 26, 2013 07:01
|
|
|
Nektu posted:vvvv You are actually right. The death of Bonden was also dealt with very quickly. Wasn't the last book actually written by someone else because of O'Brians age? Perhaps he just did not have the time left to deal with those stories in the same way as before. If by last book you mean 21, then yes, but that's because he died before he could finish it (or really start it) and the book is only the compiled notes/manuscript for the first few dozen pages, not a real book. Blue at the Mizzen works as perfect end of the series anyway.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 22, 2013 18:12
|
|
|
Octy posted:Still, I kind of liked him. Everyone liked him, that's why his death hits you pretty hard out of nowhere. One consolation: It happens very, very late in the series, so don't read it with "oh god, is this the moment he dies?" in mind (like I did when I was spoiled the same information). Decius fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Apr 24, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Apr 24, 2013 06:22
|
|
I don't know, I've been slowly going through this series for the last year. It's probably better to just avoid the thread till I'm done.
|
AlphaDog posted:There's less land-based stuff in future books, right? It's well written and interesting, but the stuff at sea is so much better. There is some land-based parts in most books (nearly none in book four though), but it is far more balanced than book 2, and often far from Britain. Some as the already mentioned Reverse or Fortunes of War take place mostly on land, but are far more compelling than the love-in-the-countryside of book 2. Generally land (especially Britain) means troubles for Aubrey, sometimes for Maturin too, so they tend to flee to the sea rather often and quickly. Decius fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Sep 1, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Sep 1, 2013 18:05
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:Pretty much any time there's a woman aboard, at least a few people are certain Stephen is banging her. It's hilarious, and they've only been right once. The Far Side of the World is probably my second favourite story (or third favourite after HMS Surprise and Desolation Island). It's a wonderful travel story, free from all restraints and worries back in England, the small frigate, Jack's seamanship and Stephen's cleverness against a bigger, stronger opponent. And it sets up so many things that will be relevant for the rest of the series or at least for the next half dozen of books. But yeah, it is a book full of setbacks for them and the whole Hollum story is pretty dark stuff.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 28, 2013 19:08
|
|
|
A lot of Aubrey (and Hornblower) is based on the rather amazing career of Lord Thomas Cochrane, 10th Earl of Dundonald. For example the Sophie vs. Cacafuego ship action (and basically the whole "cleaning the Med" in the first book) or a very pivotal event later in Aubrey's life. Wikipedia posted:One of his most notable exploits was the capture of the Spanish xebec frigate El Gamo, on 6 May 1801. El Gamo carried 32 guns and 319 men, compared with Speedy's 14 guns and 54 men. Cochrane flew an American flag and approached so closely to El Gamo that its guns could not depress to fire on the Speedy's hull. The Spanish tried to board and take over the ship. Whenever the Spanish were about to board, Cochrane pulled away briefly and fired on the concentrated boarding parties with his ship's guns. Eventually, Cochrane boarded the Gamo, despite being outnumbered about five to one, and captured her. As Nektu said nearly all fights, chases, boarding actions and land assaults are based on real events. They are fictionalized of course, often compressed somewhat and of course attributed to our protagonists, but generally the stuff you read in the books did happen in this or a very similar way. That's why you often find exploits from the characters of other authors (like Hornblower, Bolitho, Kydd...) being very similar - they all take their actions from the same sources. For example I'm pretty sure that I've read the aforementioned stranding at sea by Aubrey in a Hornblower book too. Dean King's Harbors and High Seas and Sea of Words dos a great job putting all the books into context. Decius fucked around with this message at 12:19 on Jan 24, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Jan 24, 2014 12:04
|
|
|
withak posted:A bunch of nasty-tasting poo poo to drink so that the patient can be sure that he has received medicine. One of the first things Stephen did with the price money he got from the Sophie was after all buying as much nasty tasting and smelling stuff as he could to mix it into this medicine. He might be iffy on germ theory, but he knows his sailor psychology (except when he wants to take away their alcohol and wonders if a navy of castrates would be better suited for living together years on end...).
|
|
#
¿
May 9, 2014 07:20
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:I think it's important to remember that the rampant obesity we see today would have been unheard of in those days. When 70% or so of people are overweight it skews our perception of what is and isn't fat. It's a bit more complicated. It was uncommon for poor people (as they often had hardly enough to eat in the first place to even replace the energy spent working), but it wasn't uncommon for the Upper Middle Class and the Upper Class, especially when getting older. Sports for health reasons were not seen very gentlemanlike (and don't even think about women doing it) while they consumed large amounts of food and alcohol and had others doing any manual labour for them. Getting fat in your middle years was a relatively common sight. Not 400 kg huge, but 20-30 kg overweight wasn't something never seen.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 19, 2014 06:26
|
|
|
ItalicSquirrels posted:Yup, I think it was at the start of Nutmeg of Consolation Don't forget him fighting like hell to keep the camel with Jack's uniforms from being driven away during the total failure of an expedition to and from the Red Sea in Treason's Harbour.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 19, 2014 18:37
|
|
|
Dielectric posted:I bought mine in threes and fours via Amazon, averaged $4 per but none of them match. It would have been much cooler to have all of the spines match since they went through all the trouble with the cover art. I have I think 17 books in the Norton edition. And then I have 3 that are the UK version, which of course don't fit at all with the others. Unfortunately Norton changed the look of their books now, so I'm a bit out of luck getting them match up. At least it's not like with the German ones, which changed look (and translator) every few books and ended the hardcover edition completely somewhere around book 15. These books were the main reason why I started buying and reading English books back in the early 2000s, when it still was a pain in the rear end and very expensive to get them. I can't thank Amazon enough to make it a breeze to get them now (nor Donna Leon for recommending them in a Der Spiegel article in 1998).
|
|
#
¿
Nov 19, 2014 08:04
|
|
|
Arglebargle III posted:MAJOR SPOILERS: I can't believe Diana fell in a river and drowned while Stephen and Jack were away. Looks like Stephen can't believe it either. I'm always a bit torn about that scene. On the one hand such things happen. Sudden, unexpected death on the road taking away loved ones from one second to the next is after all rather common. On the other hand killing Diana (and Ms. Williams) off unceremoniously between books, especially by the one thing she's always excelled at - driving a coach dangerously fast - reeks a lot like getting rid of a stale character to free Stephen for further story developments.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 27, 2014 07:20
|
|
|
CroatianAlzheimers posted:He who would pun would pick a pocket. As awesome as a Papist can be, not to hold it against him, the unfortunate creature. Just read through The Yellow Admiral again - apparently I had forgotten nearly all of the book, except the first third. Jack has a hell of a depressing time throughout. I'm trying to parse the affairs being had: Sophie had one in revenge for discovering Amanda Smith's letter on the advice of Diana and Clarissa Oakes I assume. Jack of course had a number, although more than the couple of women explicitly mentioned over the series. Stephen didn't have any I noticed, although he had lots of indecent thoughts when not drowning in opium. He also of course kept up his cover as old whoremonger throughout several commissions. Diana more or less implies to Stephen she had one when she thought he was parading around Mrs. Fielding, but very likely not Jagiello. But back several books - around Clarissa Oakes I think - Diana already mentioned basically the same thing she said to Stephen about Sophie in a letter - that she told Sophie that women should have affairs too if their husbands had them, and then wrote "Sophie, the silly thing takes everything so literally". So I always assumed she already had a affair back then, but doesn't seem so? Decius fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Dec 28, 2014 |
|
#
¿
Dec 28, 2014 16:55
|
|
|
Colonial Air Force posted:I did notice, however, that the Surprise in the film seems to have a poopdeck, and that will now forever annoy me. Are you sure? The Rose, which was used as Surprise definitely doesn't have one:     The quarterdeck is too short for the real Surprise, since it would actually extend to half the ship and include the capstan, but otherwise it seems fine. Decius fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Jan 5, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Jan 5, 2015 08:18
|
|
|
Owlkill posted:I've just finished The Mauritius Command and started on Desolation Island - Does anyone else find reading through this series is like watching a really gripping TV series where you're always thinking "just one more episode" and then suddenly it's like 5AM? I got loads of books for Christmas and in the Kindle 12 days sale that I fear may go untouched for quite a while longer because each time I finish one of these books I can't stop myself jumping right into the next one. Well, I just wanted to reread HMS Surprise (since it is for me the quintessential book of the series) mid-2014 and ended up reading the whole series again for the fourth or fifth time. So yes, for me is exactly the case - once I've started I can't really end, because reading any other books in the meantime just leaves me with an empty feeling, regardless how good they are.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 8, 2015 07:21
|
|
|
Just came upon one of my favourite funny scenes in the whole series: "The Thirteen-gun Salute", setting is after a dinner at the Sultan's palace   
|
|
#
¿
Jan 16, 2015 12:24
|
|
|
BeigeJacket posted:Did the Admiralty ever pay out for that ship? I remember Aubrey arguing with some official, (a civilian and a scrub to boot) who said as it couldn't be verified no prize money was due. Not as far as I remember. Later on, many years later it's even used to discredit him and cheat him out of a "sure" baronetcy by the hidden enemies of Maturin and himself in Whitehall and in Royal circles (to avoid spoiling stuff) around/before The Yellow Admiral.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 17, 2015 15:39
|
|
|
Sappo569 posted:I'll be honest, I flew through the first book in the series (being the most well known) The second book is probably the the most important for the whole series in things it sets up, but also the one I look least forward to with every re-read. It's very dry for large parts and it doesn't help that Jack gets set up with a floating death trap of a ship and the friendship between Stephen and Jack nearly breaks. The last third is a lot more enjoyable though.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 23, 2015 08:51
|
|
|
Raskolnikov2089 posted:Aren't his missing teeth because he contracted syphilis? Don't know about his teeth (dental hygiene wasn't that great at the time to begin with - just remember Higgins), but stunted growth that a lot of navy men (including high-born) have shown is often attributed to syphilis, and Babbington isn't a giant. Although the diet low in fruit and vegetables, with regular starving periods surely didn't help.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 21, 2015 05:49
|
|
|
Duckbag posted:There is so much vague implication and obtuse jargon in Maturin's descriptions of people and events that I often feel like I'm missing something important that I just can't place. Sometimes I figure it out eventually, sometimes I have to wait for him to talk to Jack about it, and sometimes he gets to keep his secrets. Normally, I let the arcane medical chatter wash over me the same way I handle the more inscrutable descriptions of fouled leads and flying tops'l yards (or whatever), but sometimes I feel like I really should be looking up some of these terms he's using. I probably would have realized Jack had chronic constipation a little earlier if I'd known what "costive" meant. A lot of meaning and subtext is hidden in plain sight when Maturin talks foreign. I found it very helpful to have this open alongside: http://www.agbfinebooks.com/Publications/Perp2004/Classic/Right%20Frame.htm Owlkill posted:http://www.foliosociety.com/category/9609/patrick-o-brian-offer Oh god I want these - Folio Society hardbacks of the entire series Very nice looking (although I would have loved the original dust jacket illustrations), but there is no way I can justify buying the series a fourth time, even less at this price. Decius fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Jul 21, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Jul 21, 2015 13:57
|
|
|
InediblePenguin posted:My books are in a box at the moment, and to make it worse I don't even remember which specific book this is from, but does anyone have the quote where Jack's at some dinner and doesn't think the girls there are attractive so he says something about thinking those small-busted girls were "exploded long ago"? It's from H.M.S. Surprise, but I couldn't tell you the exact page. It's in last third, after Stephen comes back from his marriage proposal to Diana, but before he gets a response in Calcutta. Jack is telling him about a dinner he attended. It's before/during/after the dinner on board of the Lushington, after they get rid of the embassy and have the cabin to themselves again.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 21, 2015 12:20
|
|
|
Fire Safety Doug posted:Simmons certainly did his research, perhaps too well. That book is in dire need of editing. Also would have been better without the monster. The environment was a far more compelling antagonist.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 8, 2016 20:11
|
|
|
mallamp posted:Also would have been better if it wasn't written by Dan Simmons Well, at least he could limit himself to just a few snide remarks about gays instead going full-out crazy like his usual style after 9/11 and around writing Illum. His best book in the last 15 years as far as I can tell (haven't read much of his later stuff because of his gleeful jump over the edge admittedly).
|
|
#
¿
Mar 9, 2016 07:07
|
|
|
I couldn't find a description of the paint scheme of either ship directly. I found one for the Lively though: and one indirect one for the Sophie:  That's the downside of O'Brian's elegant, subtle prose - you don't have a "and here is the thing, and that's how the thing looks and how the thing is"-section, he spreads all this information out of several chapters, musings, dialogues and action set-pieces. That's why it is hard to pin down a description of the paint. Edit: Spoke too soon, I've found one for the Polychrest too: 
Decius fucked around with this message at 14:06 on May 31, 2016 |
|
#
¿
May 31, 2016 13:57
|
|
|
That's great to hear! Just don't get disheartened by Post Captain. I just finished the audio book again and really, it is probably the most depressing book of all the series for the first 2/3. Not at bad book of course, actually really, really masterfully written. A lot of subtext and asides I only realised by the third or fourth time I read the book. But especially Jack doesn't make it easy to like him in the book for a long time, although a lot of his behaviour comes from being treated pretty cruelly by fate and politics. Still, he behaves like a scrub for far too long. He just shouldn't set foot on firm land, especially the part called Britain. Decius fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Jul 19, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Jul 19, 2016 06:57
|
|
|
Professor Shark posted:Edit: also, Stephen's clinical dispatching of the French operatives towards the end of "Fortune" was pretty Stephen can be extremely ruthless. After Jack has seen what he did there, he goes out of his way to dissuade people, who want to go out with Stephen from it. One of the best scenes of Stephen losing his countenance is after the dinner in New South Wales in "The Nutmeg of Consolidation".
|
|
#
¿
Feb 16, 2017 07:16
|
|
-worthy
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:The Jew and the bastard papist were both absurdly rich, though, and the bastard was bastard (Irish) nobility. Absurdly rich is even an understatement for Stephen, at least after his inheritance. In today's money the gold alone he has transported to Spain after the legal troubles comes to about 300 million dollar. Probably worth a lot more when gold was the base of all money and really hard to come by during wartime. But even before he should have been worth not short of 100,000 pounds, considering how much money Aubrey made (and lost), and he was there with his Surgeon's share, getting money, but hardly spending any. Decius fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Feb 17, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Feb 17, 2017 07:52
|
|
|
If you read some books about tall ships then running aground and/or bad weather near a coast is basically the #1 reason to lose a ship. Sometimes I think there wasn't a single ship in service for more than 5 years that's hasn't been run aground several times and even outstanding captains seem to have had the misfortune several times in their careers. I guess running aground didn't rate very high in Court Martials and were probably routine thing, like a speeding ticket.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 17, 2017 05:44
|
|
|
Colonial Air Force posted:Yeah. It's one of my favorite films! Yeah, the production design, costumes and the amazing sound design alone are worth watching it. Sure, it's not a 1:1 translation of a book or the characters, but it captures the atmosphere very lovingly.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 31, 2017 05:57
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 1, 2024 19:12 |
|
|
Professor Shark posted:Stephen's trading his opium addiction for cocaine was both sad and amusing. Coca leafs isn't the same as cocaine though. It's more like being addicted to super strong coffee or nicotine or using betel nuts, far, far less damaging than opium or cocaine.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 17, 2017 09:38
|
|