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OneSizeFitsAll posted:Kallor is totally metal. But also a massive piece of poo poo, to put it mildly. I'm still in that part of MoI where he's basically like "I've got an idea! Let's kill Silverfox, eh?" to anyone who will or won't listen. Not saying he's a bad character or anything, but I assume there's more awesome stuff with him yet to come.
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Feb 29, 2024 21:13
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You don’t realize he’s awesome til later. And I guess that depends on your perspective.
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Feb 29, 2024 21:18
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I happened to have just listened to the Ten Very Big Books podcast interview with Erickson. He said that Kallor was one of his favorite characters to write because he wanted Kallor to be the biggest possible rear end in a top hat, but also make you feel sympathetic to his plight. I thought Erickson nailed it because I honestly felt bad for the guy by the end of the books.
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Feb 29, 2024 21:42
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Jaxyon posted:One thing I like is that as you said, characters are stupid, but it's realistic. Like yeah Crokus is behaving like a stupid teen....he is one Finished Gardens of the Moon, and Crokus seemed to get a tiny bit smarter right at the end. I thought he would lose it when he saw Mammot die, but he was able to hold it together and help out Baruk (by defeating a master magic assassin by throwing two (2) bricks at her). Him also choosing to go with Apsalar to her home (which is mostly toast, unfortunately) was nice too, but then he just tossed the coin into the ocean? That seems like quite the move. Honestly Oponn got hosed over this book, with that and then also Paran going "hmm I just survived getting bitten by a Hound, seems like my luck has turned bad, better give up this lucky sword".   Bro no one else is surviving this, how is this your luck turning?? And then Paran lucks into an even cooler sword.And then, because Rallick Nom didn't want to be left out he covered himself in the rust dust that he was told very specifically to not put on his skin. I swear, is "Book of the Fallen" referring to everyone's IQ??? I am super curious about him going into that house though, that the Tiste Andii couldn't follow him into. I get that the Azath (which was never explained, even in the glossary) did something to the finnest, but I thought the house was the finnest/acorn growing, but the house is peaceful? I'm pretty sure all the braincells that Crokus, Paran, and Rallick Nom are missing ended up in Kruppe, because he was pretty smart in the end, even if his gambit with Raest didn't directly work. Anyway, the book was cool, but I do think Chekhov's landmines not going off was a bit anticlimactic, but it's nice they didn't turn the city into a million craters. Raest also didn't quite crash the party, but Rallick Nom got to kill that one idiot (though, him doing that after barely being able to stand earlier was... OK SteveE whatever), and Anomander Rake got to fight some other beastie in the streets. I really thought the landmines were gonna be set off to gently caress with that demon. Going forward, I do think Raest/Mammot is coming back in some capacity, Toe the Younger is probably not dead (he just got yeeted into a Warren, why is Paran instantly assuming he's dead?), Anomander Rake is going to eventually figure out Paran freed (?) the Hounds and will be Big Mad about it, and Tattersail better grow up quickly so she can kick Tayschrenn's rear end. RIP Lorn, you were a real dumbass, had a crisis of faith, unleashed a monster anyway, then got shanked by two Phoenix Inn regulars who are definitely totally normal women.
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Feb 29, 2024 23:04
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By the end of the series, you might have a half-formed idea of just whatever the gently caress the Azath houses are.
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Feb 29, 2024 23:13
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lol yet another victim of the bad OCR scanning of Toc The Younger
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Feb 29, 2024 23:22
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Gravity Cant Apple posted:lol yet another victim of the bad OCR scanning of Toc The Younger If my brain is the OCR sure, I read Toc, I know it says Toc, then later I recall that "actually" it says Toe.
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Feb 29, 2024 23:27
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Congrats on finishing the one most people say is the worst! Up next is one many people consider the best (though there's plenty of disagreement.) How did you find it overall? It took me a bit to warm up to Erikson's prose and style of only half explaining things a lot of the time, but once I was in I was in for the duration. This thread isn't as careful about spoilers as the Sanderson one, I think in part because so much happens with so many people that a lot of things are hard to spoil because without context much of it is meaningless. There's definitely thing that COULD be spoiled though.
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Feb 29, 2024 23:33
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NmareBfly posted:Congrats on finishing the one most people say is the worst! Up next is one many people consider the best (though there's plenty of disagreement.) Yeah it was good overall, it was interesting because somewhere in the middle I kinda sat back and went "OK wait, what is actually happening here?" The Malazan Empire, eponymous to the books, would clearly be the bad guys in any other story, and yeah OK they're pretty bad here. We do not like them, even though the Bridgeburners are ostensibly part of that empire (for now). But the books are being setup to be about the Empire, and maybe the empress falls and someone better takes over? Though it would be funny to end the Malazan Empire series with no more Malazan Empire. So who are the "good guys"? Or more accurately the protagonists. Baruk and Kruppe and their friends? The Bridgeburners? I guess? What about the gods/ascendants? I have no real idea about them. Oponn was loving around with a bunch of people, Shadowthrone was scheming, but if they're opposed to the Malazan Empire are they bad? (probably still yes). And the Tiste Andii? Rake was willing to leave Pale to its fate, and send assassins after some of our other protagonists all in the name of harming the Malazan Empire. And then there are things that seem to be worse than the Malazan Empire too, namely Raest, though probably a few of the gods too. If Raest was free and he was going head to head against the Empire, who would I want to win? Probably the Empire! What I'm really wondering though is what is the overall plot of the ten books. Is it the downfall of the empire, is it a metamorphosis of the empire? Is it simply for our little band of idiots to survive?
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Feb 29, 2024 23:56
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pik_d posted:So who are the "good guys"? Everybody? Nobody? Fiddler's pretty cool. It's definitely a "depends on your point of view" thing, intentionally. quote:
To explain the overarching plot would be to spoil some of the books. Because what you think the plot is at the beginning of the series may morph as you read it to the end. ----- One other thing I'd say is the first book as written first as a screenplay, then as a book, a good 10 years prior to the rest of the series, and there's a few dangling threads where the author clearly thought better of what he was doing and retconned by book 2/3. Not a huge amount, just a few. Jaxyon fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Mar 1, 2024 |
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Mar 1, 2024 03:20
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Simultaneously there are so many threads in GotM that do pay off just way later in the series when you’ve forgotten all about them.
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Mar 1, 2024 03:51
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pik_d posted:So who are the "good guys"? Or more accurately the protagonists. Don't read this unless you REALLY want to know. The short answer is "it's complicated." The only characters from Book 1 who matter throughout the whole series are: 1) Fiddler, Quick Ben, Kalam, Hedge, Whiskeyjack 2) Anomander Rake 3) Shadowthrone/Dancer 4) Toc the Younger, Tool 5) Apsalar, Crokus, Kruppe 6) Paran There really isn't a good answer to who the "protagonist" is. Fiddler? Tokelau All Star fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Mar 1, 2024 |
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Mar 1, 2024 04:03
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Oh I definitely don't want to know. I was just putting into text what I was thinking about at the end of the book.
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Mar 1, 2024 04:06
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pik_d posted:If my brain is the OCR sure, I read Toc, I know it says Toc, then later I recall that "actually" it says Toe. Haha, it's kind of funny that your brain made the same "correction" that the bad OCR of pirated ebook copies of the first book made.
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Mar 1, 2024 21:09
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I have kinda come to the conclusion that Kruppe is Erikson channeling his inner Pratchett.
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Mar 2, 2024 21:38
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Just finished bonehunters and overall enjoyed it, a lot of really strong moments and kinda continues the level of quality that’s been going since memories of ice. However how did laseen get so outplayed by mallick rel & korbolo dom. is the implication here that she’s less competent than we’ve been led to believe throughout the series?
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Mar 8, 2024 08:22
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Lasseen has a few things going against her. Probably her biggest personal issue is that unlike Kellanved and Dancer, she is not at all a people person, and whereas they cultivated loyal lieutenants like Whiskeyjack and Dassem Ultor and conquered the world behind them, Lasseen had a lot of those guys killed off (or "drowned" in a few cases) when she took over., and surrounded herself with much less trustworthy guys like Topper and Mallick. More importantly though the empire she inherited was already very extended at the point where we start the series, with large military presences in at least three continents including some pretty active campaigning. Kellanved and Dancer built up a big empire on their quest to godhood but it doesn't seem like having it last longterm was a priority for them. Keep in mind that on top of the loyal guys Lasseen lost when she deposed K and D, she also lost the Logros T'lan Imass legion when they ascended, and by all accounts they were a major part of the empire's establishment. The Ninth Layer fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Mar 8, 2024 |
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Mar 8, 2024 13:02
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You might want to put spoilers on all of that, considering the people in here just starting the series.
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Mar 8, 2024 16:38
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Regarding Korbolo Dom: Is he really affiliated with the Talon? He styles himself as the Talon Master but that could just be arrogance. Was he part of a sophisticated plan to unseat Laseen at the behest of the Talon or just for his own personal gain? Was he in (indirect?) contact with other Talons like some big ones later in the series that I won’t spoil?
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Mar 8, 2024 17:17
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my impression was that he just attempted to co-op the name.
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Mar 8, 2024 18:22
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srypher posted:Just finished bonehunters and overall enjoyed it, a lot of really strong moments and kinda continues the level of quality that’s been going since memories of ice. However how did laseen get so outplayed by mallick rel & korbolo dom. is the implication here that she’s less competent than we’ve been led to believe throughout the series? In addition to what The Ninth Layer said, Laseen also promoted some people way above their competency, e.g. Pormqual, for political reasons. I think Fiddler/Kalam points out during Deadhouse Gates that under Kellanved, the local fists/politicians would have stamped on the Whirlwind as soon as they started making noise. Laseen also relies on displays of power to keep 'control' - e.g. periodic culling of the nobles; permitting pogroms - and it's not really clear that life for ordinary people is really any better for it. It's also implied that Mallick Rel uses his status as a priest of Mael to his own advantage, which is left pretty vague, but could well extend to making his actions harder for Laseen to detect. Oh, and Kobolo Dom is a moron who thinks the Talons were cool, so he wants Talons of his own. He was a useful figurehead for Mallick Rel, but not much good for anything other than battlefield tactics.
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Mar 8, 2024 21:52
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I've read half (by "Books" which is still dumb, not chapters or %) of Deadhouse Gates. I knew it was gonna happen, but it's still very weird to have mostly left behind the characters from GOTM. Crokus and Apsalar have smaller roles, Fiddler and Kalam bigger, and Felisin is more than just a name. I know a lot of the groups of people are traveling literally just to survive, and Apsalar still claims to want to go home, but I'm really curious what happens when everything converges later, I'm guessing at Aren since that's where Coltaine is heading. But Kalam? No real idea, he's literally on the move to survive, and now he's picked up some Malazan family, but the officer has brain damage and Kalam has already upset the one woman so doing well there. Felisin, I feel for her, she's been in one terrible situation after another, but holy poo poo she is not making a single friend. I'm wonder if she'll ever meet up with her brother in a future book, she needs someone on her side but also she needs to stop being Darth Felisin because eventually someone is just gonna kill her. I also have this absolutely cracked theory that Sha'ik is gonna somehow end up the Ascendant that rules over all of the shape-shifters that are fighting across the continent in the background of everything. She's definitely not staying dead, and maybe there will be two new Ascendants, but I'm assuming some reason for all this happening concurrently.
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Mar 12, 2024 22:07
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pik_d posted:
I love this paragraph. You're gonna love it too once you're done with DG.
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Mar 12, 2024 22:50
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Deadhouse Gates is a fantastic "Books" It goes places.
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Mar 13, 2024 05:56
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Yeah, once they get off the island even that half of the book is good. And the other half was already great!
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Mar 13, 2024 08:22
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habituallyred posted:Yeah, once they get off the island even that half of the book is good. And the other half was already great! With my prediction that Sha'ik is (obviously) not really dead, I've also been jumping around with who ends up as the meat puppet. Iskaral Pust wants it to be Apsalar but I'm wondering if Felisin will stumble into the role just to continue her constant torture by SteveE.
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Mar 13, 2024 12:31
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pik_d posted:With my prediction that Sha'ik is (obviously) not really dead, I've also been jumping around with who ends up as the meat puppet. Iskaral Pust wants it to be Apsalar but I'm wondering if Felisin will stumble into the role just to continue her constant torture by SteveE. These are good guesses. Not 100% right, not 100% wrong! Obviously not gonna say more than that for now.
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Mar 13, 2024 14:45
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We can't reply without spoilers. And we can't just post smilies. But keep on posting those theories.  On my personal trip I feel like I missed a chapter in Toll the Hounds? When did Iskaral Pust get the time of day from the high priestess of shadow? Then again I still can't remember if Hood's former Mortal Sword's daughter became Cotillion. Or if the body left in Deadhouse is largely unrelated to the plot.
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Mar 15, 2024 03:45
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I finished Deadhouse Gates  This book was a hell of a ride for me and everyone of the characters. SteveE likes keeping us waiting, and I definitely was waiting for a long long time for Minala to catch up to Kalam and save him, given how telegraphed it was. It was very nice that she got to do that for him, though the ending of the line for them being Shadowthrone giving them 1300 kids was extremely weird. That doesn't seem sustainable. Really funny that Kalam got all that way then the empress got just enough nuance to her character (and the fact that she literally wasn't there) that Kalam decided not to kill her. Best mom is Apt, so far. Really doesn't need any explanation. Felisin/Sha'ik is the worst mom probably. I haven't seen how bad New Felisin (please stop reusing names SteveE, Apsalar is apparently a reused name too even though I never met the first one). I had to admit that when Coltaine got the double handouts of the merchants from Dujek and then the Khundryl introducing themselves with no obvious foreshadowing, fighting off three clans, and then announcing the Wickans the victors, it felt really weird. Coltaine fought the entire book for every foot of ground and then gets two saving graces in a row, it was very jarring. I'm really curious what happens to Duiker in the bottle, and Coltaine in the new body. Not sure how much time this series covers but it'll be a while before we see him again. I also love Moby, in my head he's Momo from ATLA, but also a demon and an Azath guardian? Great stuff though. Hope we visit him agian. I also love Mappo and Icarium and feel for them both not knowing poo poo. Hilarious that Mappo just bonks Icarium whenever he gets too angry. I'll start Memories of Ice in a few days, I've seen the reading order flowchart so I know that it's sort of in parallel to book 2, so I assume it'll be characters from Book 1 that didn't appear in 2, like Paran and Rallick Nom and Anomander Rake? If so, I look forward to seeing them all again. Can't wait for #1 idiot Paran to be dumb some more. Tequila Bob posted:These are good guesses. Not 100% right, not 100% wrong! Obviously not gonna say more than that for now. Yeah, she's not a meat puppet, she's made some sort of deal with Sha'ik and taken her name and can do some magic. It's weird, I'm looking forward to seeing how she navigates that with the three magic dudes who don't really but her poo poo quite yet. Tequila Bob posted:I love this paragraph. You're gonna love it too once you're done with DG. She's still Darth Felisin but now has the powers to back it up, lol. Still feel bad for her.
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Mar 21, 2024 01:52
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Yes there is lots of Anomander Rake and the other Bridgeburners in book 3, I enjoyed your Deadhouse review and look forward to how you will receive Memories of Ice because it is a killer read.
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Mar 21, 2024 02:32
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The exact division is spoilers but yes, at this point things are following the other perspective. Keep an eye out for stuff that only happens because of the events of book 2! Also make peace with not seeing the answers to some of your questions for quite a while.
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Mar 21, 2024 07:45
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Just finished my re/wife-read of The Bonehunters and it's just as good as I remembered. Has to be a series highlight. Everthing about it is great. The whole forging of the BHs, obviously, and the development of the various characters within Tavore's army, with perspectives switching brilliantly between different tiers of the command structure. Karsa's relationship with Samar Dev and continuing character development, not to mention his ridiculously metal bare-hands takedown of the KCM matron in Ugarat. Apsalar meeting up with Ganoes Paran. The heartbreaking sundering of Mappo and Icarium, and the eventual difficulties Veed has in pulling the wool over the latter's eyes. The Perish signing up with Tavore; Mathok signing up with Ganoes. The whole sequence in Malaz City - it's all fantastic in its convergencey goodness, including Kalam's (and later, we find out, Apsalar's) prowess against the Claw, and my favourite bit: Hellian emerging from the sea to arrest Banaschar - simply wonderful. Then the tumultuous battle by the First Throne. The epilogue really whets your appetite for more too, the highlight probably being Shadowthrone and Tayschrenn shooting the poo poo at Mock's Hold. Interesting, excitement-inducing yet also frustrating in what it doesn't reveal, in classic Erikson style. Bring on Reaper's Gale.
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Mar 21, 2024 19:31
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Its been almost a decade since I first read the books. I have some questions about the Forkrul Assail. Why were they in Kolanse? What were they doing with TCG's heart? Who were they working with? Would anyone be willing to effortpost what groups were on each side in the big last battle and how they got there? How is The God is Not Willing? I didn't care for Forge of Darkness and never finished Fall of Light.
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Mar 22, 2024 02:19
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Tokelau All Star posted:
TGiNW is a much easier and more accessible read than either FoD or FoL
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Mar 22, 2024 02:56
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Serak posted:TGiNW is a much easier and more accessible read than either FoD or FoL Seconded, TGiNW is a good Malazan book. I found FoD to be exhausting
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Mar 22, 2024 04:07
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Confession: I own 4 different editions of forge of darkness and have started it like 4 times and have never finished it....
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Mar 22, 2024 04:44
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Tokelau All Star posted:Its been almost a decade since I first read the books. I have some questions about the Forkrul Assail. Big battle breakdown Forkrul Assail - the ones involved here were a splinter group who thought humanity were a plague to be eradicated (as opposed to the rest of the FA, who mostly think humans and other mortals are merely degenerate scum). They planned to use the power in heart of the Crippled God to open a gate to Ahkrast Korvalain (their hold) and use that to wipe out humanity. Tiste Liosan - again, this seems like a splinter group, rather than all of them. Formed an alliance with the Forkrul Assail. Their plan was to invade and take over Kharkanas, then use Blind Gallan's road to invade the actual world and help the FA wipe out everyone they don't like. The Perish - sworn to the Wolves of Winter, gods who never quite got over the fact that humans have decimated the wolf population, and wanted to wipe them out in punishment. Not very bright, being wolves, we're told several times throughout the books that the Imass had been doing the same thing for millennia. K'Chain Che'Malle - were targeted by the K'Chain Nah'Ruk, who were allies of the Forkrul Assail. Didn't want the FA to win, so hooked up with the Bonehunters and that gang. T'lan Imass, Jaghut - released from undeath by the undead Bridgeburners (now guarding Hood's gate at this point) to participate in the final fight, because it would make it more epic The Shake, Tiste Andii - The Shake went to Kharkanas because the Jaghut ice was melting and flooding where they lived on Letheras, ended up fighting the Tiste Liosan because seriously gently caress those guys. The Tiste Andii came to Kharkanas because it was their home, and fought the Tiste Liosan because seriously, gently caress those guys I think that's most of them
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Mar 22, 2024 07:47
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Tokelau All Star posted:Its been almost a decade since I first read the books. I have some questions about the Forkrul Assail. It's because they're assholes. I haven't hovered over your spoilers, but I'm 90% certain thats the answer.
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Mar 22, 2024 18:13
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Book 8 down. This one felt very long Continues the trend of killing any characters I remotely grow to like. I feel like I'm sunk costing these books to some extent at this point. While they certainly have enjoyable moments, I'm undecided if I'm actually enjoying the books as a whole. Like people said this had a lot of meandering for the first 90% of the book. The climax and such were fun, but after so much buildup some of it couldn't help but feel anticlimactic. I guess the reveal of Shadowthrone's master plan or whatever is still to come. A few times in the series now he and Cotillion just show up to go "I sure hope it all worked!" at the end of a plot thread with no other explanation. It feels a bit like the Spock bit from the Simpsons. Whatever Karsa's final plan with his people is also still to be resolved. There's also the Forkrul Assail that Karsa freed in his childhood that I think was never mentioned again. I assume Letheras is still going to come into play again at some point in the next two books, or at least Mael will. I can't imagine we don't have some sort of "look how smart I am" showdown between Kruppe and Tehol. Icarium has to tie in somewhere as well - the machine he built there seems to have....just not done anything? It's not clear if it broke during the Malazan invasion or if it's still just waiting to do something. Two books left to hopefully resolve those things! It's odd that it's replacing characters that have been culled. I would assume this late in the series that you wouldn't be adding new major players, but Draconus and his kids seem to be just that. Caladan Brood showing up at the end of this book also makes me think he'll be around and doing things. Is the general consensus that the main 10 books at least end satisfyingly enough?
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Mar 23, 2024 16:05
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Skyl3lazer posted:Is the general consensus that the main 10 books at least end satisfyingly enough? Yes. Book 8 was a slog to read with a downer ending the first time I went through it, but on a re-read a few years ago it was much better. Books 9 and 10 are pretty much one unit, and Erikson manages to end the series on a high note with a lot of the characters at a good place, as well as a huge and satisfying final battle. I think most fans of the series found the ending to be satisfying.
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Mar 23, 2024 17:12
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