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Meh...Kind of a lackluster thread title. But great OP! Though I think I'd put the chronology things lower...Maybe at the end.  Just random unasked for advice.Also, isn't Erikson an anthropologist, not an archaeologist?
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Mar 2, 2011 06:51
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Ccs posted:Just finished the first book last month, good stuff. I got kind of annoyed with how prevalent magic is in the world, because most edgy fantasy these days (like A Song of Ice and Fire, The First Law, or the manga Berserk) has magic as a thing not many people believe is real or really know about. In Malazan it's just everywhere and some of the lore behind in all just seems excessive. I also felt the first book suffered from too much explanations of magic and history and not enough of making the characters seem three dimensional. I hardly felt anything for Paran even though he's basically the main character. And the ending with that magic tree thing that weakens the Jaghut tyrant and then turns into a house? What the hell was that about? One thing newcomers don't realize is that the first book in this series was written quite a bit before the rest of the series, as they spent a long time shopping it around and trying to get the series made. As a result, the first book is generally considered to be the weakest, and has slight inconsistencies as far as style and content go. Still, you'll be blown away how many things in the first novel come into play later, and how deeply layered the series is. But yeah, as far as character development and such go, trust us...It gets way, way better. If you liked book one, by book three you'll be blown away.
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Mar 2, 2011 08:52
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Yeah, we've been meaning to start a new megathread for a long time, as the last one is years and years old and has no real OP to speak of.
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Mar 2, 2011 18:18
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Not to mention that it's a big theme in the series, and not just with Karsa. The Bonehunters being "unwitnessed," along with a few that need spoilers.Habibi posted:. I'm almost done, and there's been nothing about this. So, I doubt it.
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Mar 2, 2011 18:52
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Habibi posted:loving cock-tease Erikson. Well, as we've said in the past, it never describes Quick as being Andii-like at all. It just says that he's black, along with Kalam and most of the other denizens of Seven Cities. Whereas the Andii are very specifically described as being midnight or onyx colored...Pretty big difference, I figure.
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Mar 2, 2011 19:47
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That passage sure as hell sounds like he's
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During the story part they describe the souls that Quick absorbs, and it just says that they're the other mages that were in his village. Don't remember the exact wording, but it leads you to believe that it's just the desert mages he was hanging out with. Erikson never says a word to make you believe that one of them is Andii, though I spose it's a possibility. Seems a weird thing to leave out, though. TCG: Also, hey may be talking to Mother Dark and Father Light, but that doesn't mean he's calling them HIS mother and father. They are NAMED Mother Dark and Father Light, so if he's talking to them or whatever he's going to call them Mother and Father, right? Also, at one point a character observes Quick and Kalam walking together and it describes them as being the same color. So, I dunno...I still think Quick = Andii is pretty farfetched.
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Mar 2, 2011 22:47
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Ccs posted:That's good to hear. I'll definitely be checking out the next book. Meh, I feel like that's predicated on some unwritten rule or something, which does not exist. Erikson wanted a world full of magic, so that's how this world is. You can like it or not, but I think saying that "magic should be used sparingly if at all" is putting rules on imagination, in a sense, which is silly. But don't worry about the magic thing. As many crazy rear end old badasses and mages and gods and dragons and poo poo there are, there are always mortals waiting to gently caress them up...That's not to mention that, overall, the series is really more about amazing characters and themes and plots more than the magic itself. The magic is a means to an end, but it's not the FOCUS of the story at all. If he'd written the books just to write crazy magical porn, the series wouldn't be nearly as amazing as it is...It'd just be lovely DragonBallZ fanfiction. Give the magic a chance.
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Mar 3, 2011 07:18
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the periodic fable posted:i don't think it's entirely fair to call an opinion he is certainly entitled to 'silly'. authosr put rules on imagination all the time and erikson isn't an exception. It seemed like he was stating it as an unwritten fact, not so much an opinion. Though, this is one of those things that happens on the internet. People stating things like fact that are, actually, opinions. My mistake.
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Mar 3, 2011 18:32
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the periodic fable posted:well, i personally took my cue from his starting the sentence with "I like magic here and there" but i can see how you could interpret it differently. hahaha...Awesome. I have no clue...I can't think of a single thing I've posted lately, aside from book spoilers and book corrections, aside from that last thing, which I apologized for. Certainly nothing that was worth spending 10 bucks on. Yeah, nothing but talking about books, really. I definitely haven't invoked any Something Awful/backseat moderator rules. Who knows?
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Mar 3, 2011 23:02
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Maybe it's Pepper. Haha. But yeah, that was certainly a wasted 10 bucks, I guess. I don't spam, I don't backseat mod, and this is basically the only thread I post in. As I said, no idea what I did to deserve it. Ok, just finished TCG. Questions, as always: Can someone who thinks they have a good handle on the ending explain the entire Crippled God/Heboric/Cotillion thing? I understand that Heboric had touched both sides, Otataral and the Jade, linking the healing the world wanted to do with the poison of the Crippled God. I'm not sure why Cotillion stabbed him in the back? That entire scene, while awesome, was a bit confusing. Also, holy poo poo...That ending. Definitely worth waiting for, but I wish there were more. The Crippled God being the one to write the Book of the Fallen...How, once again, Erikson turns convention on its head and makes you care for the bad guy...We've hated and thought TCG was the main antagonist for book after book, and now we feel for him. Great stuff. Can't wait for more people to finish it so there are more opinions to discuss.
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Mar 3, 2011 23:08
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Oh, brilliant, can't believe I didn't get that. That asked, I think this ending was way less confusing than some of his other ones. As I said, great stuff...So many crazy emotional moments at the end, I felt almost exausted after reading it. In a good way.
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Mar 3, 2011 23:20
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Masonity posted:BEst thing is, that explanation is the spoiler I forgot to spoil that you read. Heh I didn't read the whole thing, luckily...My spidey sense started tingling about four words in and I scrolled my mouse downward in a girly manner to avoid having anything ruined.
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Mar 4, 2011 03:09
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Masonity posted:The thing is, most Wheel of Time readers are caught up with the series. It's out there. Everyone knows it. Exactly right. Unlike WoT or ASoIaF, new readers are discovering the Malazan books all the time. They're more popular than they were when the old thread was started, but they're still not nearly on the level of those well known series. We get new readers at least once a week coming to the thread asking questions about early books.
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Mar 5, 2011 19:21
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Daico posted:Unless I miss my guess, watered are half-breed forkrul assail and shriven are just dudes. There are also different levels of Watered, who possess some of the FA's abilities (controlling people with voice, talking to their soldier's minds, etc) maybe based on amount of FA versus amount of human in them?
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Mar 6, 2011 04:07
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Most people love DHG...What did you think of The Chain of Dogs?
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Mar 6, 2011 19:08
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Juaguocio posted:
I thought that was perfect, too. I think in the end what Erikson was saying about Mappo was that, despite his incredible love and loyalty to Icarium, no person of his intelligence and integrity could handle the role he had forever. He was too smart, too heartbroken...Even by Deadhouse Gates he was already struggling mightily with being Icarium's companion. Ublala is perfect. He's dumb as a rock, but good hearted...A perfect foil for Icarium. Unlikely to be touched by the profound sorrow that Mappo was, unintelligent enough to not think too deeply into things, but stolid and good enough to stay by his side and be a good influence. I also really, really want to know if we've seen the last of Icarium, or if he's going to factor into the trilogies. The part where he says "My friend, I have remembered something" sent chills through me. So well written. I want to know what happens from there!
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Mar 7, 2011 08:25
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big enough for him. The pairing of Ublala and Icarium, however, is just too perfect.
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The Saddest Robot posted:It certainly seemed like something major was happening with him throughout the series. Him getting healed by the ereslas(?) god, creating the new warrens, us seeing the crystal city of Icarius. But then suddenly... nope. Nothing new, he's once again ignorant of everything, no new mention is made of the new warrens and in the final book he's just a macguffin. The "I remember something" was touching though, so maybe it wasn't all for nothing for Icarium. I thought it was that he was the weapon that no one dare uses...Like mutual nuclear annihilation today. Once his rage awakens, there's basically no stopping him. There was some Icarium suspense at the end when Calm went to use him...She probably could have won the day if not for Mappo and Ublala. Another TCG question that I'm a bit confused about : What was the deal with Fener/Karsa killing Fener? Someone says something about Karsa keeping a vow...When was that vow made? I forget. Also, how did he know that the soldiers fighting near the spire would summon Fener with their oaths and such?
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Mar 7, 2011 20:03
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Nigulus Rex posted:I just read your spoiler because you started it with "in DoD" and there were tCG spoilers in there Luckily none of those spoilers really ruin anything.
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Mar 8, 2011 09:12
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Vanilla Mint Ice posted:Finished TCG last night. TCG: I don't think the Hetan thing was "out of nowhere" exactly. I mean, Toc did find her body in the last book, didn't he? Where she'd crawled away to die? And being that he considers Tool as close as a brother, I didn't think it was weird that he saved her. Now, whether you think it's good writing is another story. I'm not sure how I feel about Hetan coming back...Seems a little convenient to give the ending another happy note.
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Mar 8, 2011 20:03
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Turpitude posted:So there are still no copies of TCG anywhere in Toronto. I can't find a single one, and the one I ordered on Amazon says it won't ship until the 29th! This is a long shot, but if any Toronto goons have it I'll totally buy it off you. Is it on Kindle yet? Even if you don't have a Kindle, you could buy it and read it on your computer. There's free computer Kindle reader software on Amazon, I believe.
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Mar 15, 2011 00:23
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RotCG ain't bad, don't fret.
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Mar 15, 2011 18:54
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Junk Science posted:Then don't do it. It is a step up from NoK, but it's still barely on par with a mediocre Forgotten Realms novelization, only less entertaining. You will likely regret the time wasted. This has been a subject of debate for awhile. Personally, I liked it enough to include it in my reread when I went through the series a second time. There are a few b-plots that go nowhere(the girl whose rescued by the swordsmaster is pointless) but it has major ramifications in the Malazan world and even effects things in books 8 and 10. Esslemont basically took over the happenings back in the Malazan Empire itself while Erikson moved back to Genebackis in book 8 and Lether/surrounds in 9 and 10. So if you care about what happens with Laseen as well as tons of other characters like Urko, Toc the Elder, etc, it's worth reading. He improved in every aspect of his writing fron NoK to RotCG, though he's still not even close to Erikson. This post was aimed at qbert, no Junk, by the way.
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Mar 16, 2011 06:13
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Haha yeah, I've been meaning to get this one for awhile, but I've been lazy about it. I used to have a much higher quality version of this picture, but for the life of me, I can't find it anymore. Also wanted to get WJ and Ganoes in there, but when shrunken down enough to fit the 125x125 and zoomed out, it looked crappy.
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Mar 16, 2011 21:22
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Speaking of Fid, I love the part when someone asks who the toughest BB was, and WJ responds with Fiddler. drat straight.
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Mar 16, 2011 22:22
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Juaguocio posted:Ah, but it takes ICE a very, very long time to get going. Too long, really, as most of the comments on RotCG indicate. The convergence at the end is something else, though. Yeah that's the one I was talking about...Got it kind of messed up.
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Mar 17, 2011 02:20
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BexGu posted:The way I read it: After Stormy/Gesher kill the main Forkrul Assail, the Spire is already in flames from Sinn, the rest of the Watered just gave up/got killed because all their leadership is gone. This is one thing I think Erikson does loving incredibly, that not a lot of other authors pull off convincingly. Entire series spoilers: His characters are so multidimensional that we don't balk at the prospect of empathizing with someone we'd hated up to that point. Take Kallor. We spent book after book hating him...I mean...The motherfucker KILLED WHISKEYJACK, the saddest moment in the series for me. I thought there was no way to redeem this dude, but what do you know...In book 8, suddenly you actually feel for Kallor. You don't hate him like you did. TCG is another example. He's set up as being the main antagonist for 9 books, and then at the end on the hill with Fiddler and company...You actually feel for him. You want him to be saved. It's amazing, how Erikson pulls these 180's on you. And it takes a nuanced touch to write something like that convincingly. If there's a horrible murderer rapist piece of poo poo character who does horrifying things book after book, and then suddenly he's a great guy, it's fake. Doesn't ring true. Despite these characters doing horrible things, though, you actually empathize with Kallor and such. It's impressive. The only other corollary I can think of right now is Jaime in A Song of Ice and Fire. I can't think of many characters I hated as much as him for the first few books of that series, and now he's one of my favorite characters in those books.
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Mar 24, 2011 18:10
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Habibi posted:Yeah, there're a lot of unhappy readers in the Rothfuss thread (me being one of them). Forget hardship, his take on relationships - mainly romantic but also friendships - are very difficult to relate to. It's bizarre to me, the mainstream appeal Rothfuss's series has claimed already. I mean, his world and characters are great in ways, and there are the seeds of a great fantasy in there, but the books are so loving flawed for all the reasons we've stated...I just don't get it. They get reviewed in major magazines, they have blurbs talking about how Name of the Wind was the best fantasy novel in a hojillion years and all that...All I can think is that these people really don't read much fantasy or have no loving clue what they're talking about. I'm not saying that they're bad, or that I didn't enjoy them, but comparing them to Erikson or Martin or Abercrombie...They just don't hold up. I read TCG, then Wise Man's Fear, and now I'm reading The Heroes by Abercrombie. As much as I do enjoy Rothfuss's books, TCG and Heroes are so much better that reading WMF in the middle really served to illustrate the things that Rothfuss fucks up. I mean, the books are different in some ways, but even putting aside the creepy romance and with fulfillment and such, even the way he metes out stuff about the Chandrian and Amyr is lovely. I mean, we're 2000 some pages in and we still don't know poo poo about the main plots of the series. Meh.
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Mar 26, 2011 08:28
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I liked Esslemont's books, too. I'm reading Sanderson, now, and as far as quality of writing and plot development go, I'd say Esslemont is easily on par with him. I've read a lot of mainstream, popular fantasy that I'd say is about equal in terms of quality to Esslemont...Like The Warded Man by Brett. The thing that ruins us all is how loving good Erikson is.
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Mar 31, 2011 17:31
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adamarama posted:Just finished the TCG, a solid ending to the series. It felt a bit rushed in parts, wrapping up so many loose ends, but the characters that mattered shone through. Inevitably, some questions. Yeah, I was under the impression that it was Trull. He's dead in the real world, but at that point he's in Kruppe's dream, right? Actually, I've already forgotten the exact details, but I do remember thinking that he was referencing Trull.
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Apr 2, 2011 19:31
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Abalieno posted:Another interview: I love this, especially considering that we were arguing about it just a few pages ago: quote:- Is there enough information dropped along in the series for the fans to piece together, with some degree of accuracy, who Quick Ben really is?
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Apr 7, 2011 07:30
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I'm thinking that of all the characters in MBotF, he's one of the most likely to end up having some part in the Karsa Trilogy. He's got his fingers in a lot of pots.
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Apr 7, 2011 22:00
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Habibi posted:Sorry, but even contextually, systematic dragon rape is a pretty loving ludicrous concept - and I don't care what your philosophic point is. Anytime you're trying to explain something and the illustration that seems most appropriate is to have families raped to death by a dragon, you need to take a nap, let the narcotics work themselves through your system, and try again in the morning. As far as I remember, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not really an actual DRAGON as far as dragons are usually imagined. I mean, it's not like Erikson dragons or whatever...They're more like another race altogether, one that revels in carnal desire and basically makes people go off the deep end when they get into their heads. It's more like the ultimate corruption...By the time he gets to them, he's not raping them in the "hold you down against your will" kind of way, because they're so corrupted they're willing to do it. When you read the stuff, it's hard to read, but you don't think "this is loving unnecessary." The poo poo in Terry Goodkind is a great example of the stupid, tawdry poo poo that can be written, and this isn't like that. That said, I think Bakker handles sex badly in many ways, and sometimes shoehorns it in unnecessarily. A lot of people really like his books, but I'm not massively fond of them. I read the first three, and though he had some interesting ideas (magic is very interesting in his series) there's a lot not to like, including some of the most sterile and boring battle scenes I've read in fantasy. That sucks, because there are a poo poo ton of them. Armies meeting and heroes and such are a huge, huge part of his books, but his battles are told from a kind of far away, dry perspective...I really prefer Erikson or Abercrombie's style, told through the eyes of soldiers as they actually fight.
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Apr 15, 2011 00:56
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Sankis posted:So, I'm about to start The Crippled God and I have a few questions/worries. To your first question, if you really want it spoiled: Yes, though it's tiny and not part of the main plot.
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Apr 15, 2011 08:11
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Juaguocio posted:
Brilliantly said, I couldn't agree more.
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Apr 16, 2011 04:46
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:The reincarnation of Coltaine appears in Return of the Crimson Guard, and it is not Grub. Grub existed before Coltaine died, for one thing. It's probably been awhile since you've read Deadhouse Gates, but the explanation for Grub's comment about being there is even far less cryptic than you make it out to be - he was actually, physically there at the walls of Aren. He was rescued by Duiker and adopted by Keneb during and after the Chain of Dogs. TCG: They explain in TCG that Grub is a physical manifestation of the Chain of Dogs. I haven't read it in awhile and can't remember the exact language, but it says something about the insanity of the Chain of Dogs inhabiting this kid's body/mind. Anyone remember what I'm talking about and feel like explaining it better?
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Apr 21, 2011 17:32
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adamarama posted:It haven't read RotCG since release but I don't remember this at all. When is it mentioned? RotCG: There is a child with the Wickans that several characters interact with who leads them and such. He's described as seeming way older than he should and such, and at one point it basically says that he's Coltaine 2.0.
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Apr 22, 2011 18:42
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You know who I keep wanting to know more of, and hope they're mentioned at some point in the future? Those crazy strong rear end mages in that faraway nation that could basically gently caress up the entire world, but (can't remember the details) aren't ambitious, don't feel like it. There are three of them, I think. Anyone remember details I'm forgetting?
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May 4, 2011 07:35
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Right, right. I want to know more.
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May 5, 2011 11:14
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cept gothos, dude is a prick
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May 5, 2011 19:31
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HeroOfTheRevolution posted:
I'm not sure I entirely agree. Though they didn't do a ton plot wise, they helped set up some of the more moving scenes with Fid and Hedge. Some of the stuff the former did toward the end seemed very fueled by the emotional scenes just before that.
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May 12, 2011 22:49
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