The Malazan Book of the Fallen: Too many wor'ds.

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Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

qbert posted:

On that note, who's Cartheron Crust again? I recognize the name, but I don't remember the context.

You might also remember him as the captain from DG who takes Kalam and Salk Elan/Pearl to Malaz City.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2011 06:39

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 01:46

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Habibi posted:

First, it's not necessarily one person, because there are others in the series (typically of 7C origin) who are described as black-skinned. And I don't think it's a huge leap to imagine a bunch of people having black skin because they're carrying Andii blood from some union from way back when. Second, as I said, Erikson already uses shades of color for which we don't have an analogue. The Napanese, for example, are almost invariably blue-skinned. Finally, again, I haven't made any claims about him carrying around an Andii soul.

The people from Seven Cities and the desert based Dal Honese have dark brown skin. The jungle based Dal Honese have almost midnight black skin. The way the marines in the Bonehunters who are that black scare the poo poo out of the Edur while they're invading Lether is a interesting throw-away fact in Reaper's Gale.

I think it's either that one of the souls in Quick is a Tiste Andii soul, or the story Whiskeyjack was told by Quick and then repeated to Rake was a slight amendment of the truth and he's an Andii disguising himself as a human like Rake did when he was a guard or soulshifted himself into another body. It'll explain how he remembers how to do it, too.

I never know when to use spoilers so I'll just assume no-one's read beyond book one at almost any given moment to be safe.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2011 01:36

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Juaguocio posted:

Ghelel

gently caress

I had almost forgotten she existed.

gently caress

# ¿ Mar 3, 2011 03:50

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

A Nice Boy posted:

Ok, just finished TCG. Questions, as always:

Can someone who thinks they have a good handle on the ending explain the entire Crippled God/Heboric/Cotillion thing? I understand that Heboric had touched both sides, Otataral and the Jade, linking the healing the world wanted to do with the poison of the Crippled God. I'm not sure why Cotillion stabbed him in the back? That entire scene, while awesome, was a bit confusing.

Cots stabbed him in the back because as he was, manifested in the flesh like Hood in TTH, he couldn't go home. Killing his body allowed his godly soul to go free, so it was transported up to his followers aboard/comprising the ~~Big Green Short Bus~~ jade statues and he went home. I did not have Poochy flashbacks following that sentence.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2011 23:15

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

The Saddest Robot posted:

I had a lot of trouble following that plot as well. I think it was something along the lines of Gruntle actually trying to get Treach killed by calling him forth where all the dragons were going to enter the world.

That was my take on it too, I guess it was the war gods' turn to be completely rubbish and unnecessary (with the exception of Fener) after the Barghast gods hosed up in DoD.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2011 22:05

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Decius posted:

While I hated Blistig with a fiery passion for the stuff he did to Pores, I also think he was one of the most interesting characters in the book, also probably the most realistic one. He sees Tavore dragging the army through suffering into its doom, without explanation (even to her Fists), without encouragement, no cause to believe in, seemingly completely out of touch with the rest of the army.

Looking out for a way to survive it is something most people would do. Blistig is only the most prominent and powerful person of a sentiment that run through the army and was mostly held in check by the marines and heavies. Of course then he stabbed Pores. Also, being an rear end in a top hat and coming out of all well is also all too near to reality for comfort.

Also, don't forget, Ruthan Gudd was about to walk away too, far earlier, far before all the suffering until Tavore said the right thing to him. She didn't to Blistig until the very end.

Someone pointed out to me that the last person who ordered Blistig to carry out seemingly suicidal commands was Pormqual, so that may have poisoned his opinions almost as badly as Tene Baralta.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2011 16:36

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

I've been thinking about Tiam and (TCG) T'iam, with that crazy broken-denoting apostrophe and I've had a couple of thoughts about it.

1. The original Tiam was an actual dragon, just existing and interacting with the Elder Gods and the Tiste races as a single entity. She spawned her own children by herself at first, like Mother Dark, but was the preeminent Ancient and the whole race was her Storm. When Rake killed her and drank her blood to become the first Elient Soletaken (part of what royally pissed off Mother Dark) she held enough of her mind to be able to survive in the background of all dragon's minds, like some kind of mental virus (I don't care if meme is actually appropriate) in a state that only manifests will in really dire conditions, like Korabas being freed.

2. Tiam has always been the Elient D'ivers, the other ancient entities becoming Soletaken from her individual parts controlled by Tiam's mind, and shagging her after that (would rather not imagine the latter before the former, thanks) and what Rake did in the process of drinking from whichever dragon he killed was shatter her mind, similar to what happened to the Forkrul Assail's god. That'd make events and deeds attributed to Tiam have been performed by any Elient, before Rake, and afterwards they kept their own minds to do really stupid things like spawn 'the child of indescribable terror' Korabas.

3. Most likely some combination of those two;

4. Imagine four dragons on the edge of a Gate. Say a direct copy of the dragon nearest the Gate is sent to the back of the line of dragons and takes the place of the first dragon. The formerly first dragon becomes the second, the second becomes the third, and the fourth flies into the Gate.

Tiam works the same way.

# ¿ Mar 11, 2011 15:26

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Habibi posted:

What doesn't quite gel with your theories - for me, anyway - is that there are several instance throughout the series that imply that Tiam was by no means an unwilling participant in Rake's taking of her blood, which makes me wonder if she colluded in that much in the way Kellanved/Dancer 'died' in order to ascend.

Well, perhaps she wanted effective immortality that would only end when the last dragon died. Or she didn't know what Rake was planning until it was too late. We should get better answers once the Kharkanas trilogy rolls around, though.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2011 01:17

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

VanillaGorilla posted:

I hope we don't have to wait too long for whatever comes next from him.

He's writing the first Kharkanas book now, and he's said that he's going to write at his relaxed casual speed of a novel every 18 months, instead of his previous focused speed of a novel a year. So, still ridiculously fast.

# ¿ Mar 15, 2011 15:34

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Oh yeah, that reminds me:

What's worse than finding a D'rek in your apple?

Finding a Demidrek

# ¿ Mar 15, 2011 17:04

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

I think Pannion's sister wins this one. Stuck inside a rent in a warren, having her soul hideously tortured for over four hundred thousand years? Yeah, that's going to suck.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2011 00:15

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Vanilla Mint Ice posted:

Was it Late Empire instead? Aww

Just because it's Late and not Last doesn't mean the Empire doesn't dissolve into independant states after that ends or anything without having to be eradicated by Karsa.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2011 01:33

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

zokie posted:

It's a Kenryllah demon that Kellanved put incharge of his bar when he left to become emperor

Nah, he's still there. This one is the one on Kellanved's flagship, the Twisted, that sank in Malaz Harbour back in the day.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2011 01:44

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Sil posted:

Korlat(TCG)Sandalath was raped by a non-Tiste Andii. I always thought it was Draconus and that's why Anomander killed him. Guess it could have been Tulas Shorn, but that wouldn't have been such a secret(ie. Anomander killed him to keep a secret but Sand/Korlat weren't so private with this...

There's a small problem with that, called the MOI prologue. I doubt Rake would have waited to deal with Draconus until after the Crippled God fell, 120,000 years before Burn's Sleep and two hundred thousand years or so after the events in Kharkanas.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2011 18:07

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

The Gunslinger posted:

House of Chains & TCG spoilers - This is a great question that brings up an interesting point. It was previously revealed in House of Chains that Korbolo Dom was the Talon Master but Tavore is seemingly unaware of this fact despite being a member herself. I know Cotollion segmented them specifically but it still seems like a weak explanation for why a member of the Talon is leading her army at cross-purposes against the master of her order.

Korbolo Dom just made up his own assassin organisation and called them Talons. They're not connected to the originals, and Cotillion probably doesn't give a poo poo what they do.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2011 19:43

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

coyo7e posted:

I guess I was mistaken in thinking that he just had a thing against jhistal and that there was some back-story to it. And also, how was Duiker aware of the priest being a jhistal and/or the priest's intention to sacrifice the entire army, in essence? Hmm.

There was a scene in DG where Duiker is speaking to some tribesmen while chasing the Seventh. The leader talks about the jhistal in Aren as their shaved knuckle in the hole, and Duiker (and eventually Keneb) puts two and two together later on.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2011 05:57

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Boogle posted:

There's this whole sordid affair involving him, the Factor of Drene, his sister, and the Awl tribe they were both adopted into. TL:DR - When they were both really young they captured in a raid and adopted into the tribe. Some time later his sister was indebted to Anict's estate, and he attempted to free her and spur the Awl into action against the enroaching Lether Empire. There was some backlash when his sister was killed and in a rage he slew some of his tribe's elders for their inaction. For this he was banished. The secret that his tribe elder held over him (at least until he strangled him to death) was basically knowledge of this entire affair.

So yes, that was the real Redmask, he was just a Letherii to begin with.

And in connection to that question about Edgewalker, as far as I'm aware he's an 'elemental force' which is basically shorthand for original Elder God, like Mother Dark, K'rul, Draconus, etc, and the Throne of Shadow is still successfully hidden on Drift Avali.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2011 18:55

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Habibi posted:

I think Illuyankas is assuming that that Letheri-turned-Awl who killed the elders was the original Redmask, whereas I believe it's pretty explicit in the books (which I don't have on me by virtue of being at work) that the original Redmask was around well before that episode - hence his legendary status, hence the fact that no one alive remembers him.

I'm assuming that because that strangled elder was the only person left from his tribe since he killed most of the elders and the rest of the tribe dwindled away from infighting and the Letherii, and no-one else who saw what's behind his mask was currently alive. As far as the Awl are concerned, Redmask is a badass Awl with a scaled mask. Redmask trained with those signature weapons while he had his mask, before the whole mess with his sister that Boogle described. So either a Letherii became incredibly skilled with these weapons while learning from the KCCM, or he's the original and he was always a Letherii captive raised by the Awl. Original Redmask loses his sister -> Kills elders -> Heads into the Wastelands -> Meets the KCCM -> Returns after some years of the Awl degrading. The thing is, though, that whether Redmask killed the elder because he was a fake or because being revealed as Letherii would destroy his authority among the Awl doesn't actually detract from the story either way. So right or wrong, it's still good. Part of the problem in the first place is determining ages of characters who wear masks all the time is tricky, and also Erikson's slight amount of timeline issues.

quote:

Eh, as with most forums like that, the core contributers probably spend far too much time every day discussing the books and plot, and after a while you run out of reasonable theories and ruminations and invariably resort to crazy poo poo.

This is factually accurate, except that sometimes those theories are correct.

Not often.

# ¿ Apr 5, 2011 00:05

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

There's an Imass POV somewhere about one of them who was part of a failed attack on Shal-Morzinn and was the only marginally successful member of it, as she managed to wound 'The Bearded One' before being ordered to withdraw. I hope that's an official title, not a nickname.

# ¿ May 4, 2011 22:11

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Levitate posted:

Ok so Memories of Ice is pretty depressing

Have you finished it or are you not yet done?

MOI was the first book in the series I read, I didn't even know it was book three of ten until after the epilogue and it's probably still my favourite even now I've finished the whole series, though Midnight Tides is really close.

# ¿ May 17, 2011 03:16

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

angerbeet posted:

So I just finished TGC and the thing that's sticking in my mind the most is what the Empresses' deal is. Is she undead? I seem to recall someone going to see her (Pearl?) via the imperial warren way back in like book 6 or something and she was a horrible corpse on a throne? Isn't that the sort of thing people would generally have some questions about?

It's been a while since I read the other books so maybe my memory is faulty.

That's the Deadhouse Gates scene where Kalam speaks to her in a room in Malaz City but it's really her voice being projected through a corpse to keep her out of knife range. You see her onpage in The Bonehunters where she's perfectly alive and not dead at all while trying to persuade Kalam to kill Korbolo Dom and Mallick Rel for/with her.

Have you read Return of the Crimson Guard? That's got the most information about what she's currently doing.

# ¿ May 24, 2011 19:23

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Abalieno, I'd say it was compassion.

# ¿ May 29, 2011 04:09

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Levitate posted:

When does Midnight Tides take place in relation to the rest of the series?

Slightly before Gardens, timewise.

# ¿ Jun 5, 2011 16:24

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Leospeare posted:

Just finished TCG. Part of me wants to read anything but fantasy, while the other part wants to get GotM and start all over again.

I'm still digesting it all, but had one question from the epilogue:

When Fiddler is sitting on the dock fishing and the boy tells him there's no fish off that dock, but people say Shadowthrone's demon lives down there but Fiddler could never catch and kill that, and Fiddler says he doesn't want to kill it, just talk to it again... who or what are they talking about? Because I'm blanking.

He's talking about the resident demon of Kellanved's flagship the Twisted who was still onboard when it sank in Malaz Harbour.

# ¿ Jun 20, 2011 21:44

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Yeah, Kallor is one of my favourite characters which is pretty impressive for someone who killed his newborn children by dashing their heads against a wall.

Also the Tor reread has just finished Memories of Ice, and SE has commented in the thread about it and also mentioned that he's halfway through Kharkanas One, which is feeling to him like MOI did when he was writing it. Hopefully a good omen.

# ¿ Jun 30, 2011 05:10

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

There's a character called Will in Stonewielder.

Also every name has four letters. Maybe five if ICE is feeling racy.

# ¿ Jul 2, 2011 00:20

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

He's going to butcher the Karsa and Torvald reunion scene, the one that should have been in TTH drat it and I'm going to hate him for it.

# ¿ Jul 22, 2011 15:01

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Fargo Fukes posted:

Why does everyone spit everywhere? All the drat time. Spit spit spit. Someone probably has to clean those floors.

"Herp derp I'm Dujek Onearm", spits on floor, sips ale, spits on floor, scratches stump.

Don't forget throws gloves.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2011 19:05

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Levitate posted:

I don't think it really spoils all that much to answer this, but yes he is indeed the Eel and Kruppe is a pretty cool dude throughout the series

edit: Just finished the series this morning. Couple of things

Cotillion killing the Crippled God at the end was to basically release him from being bound on their world so he and the souls of his worshipers could return to their world, more or less, right? That seemed to be the implication but it was a little murky.

Also, Draconus? He killed Kilamandros and that was his last bit of facetime I believe, right? I assume we'll hear more from him in the future and he's off hunting down Errastas, but just wanted to make sure I didn't miss something with him.

Yes, and yes with some probably unnecessary help.

# ¿ Aug 23, 2011 17:27

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Pokeylope posted:

I've just finished Midnight Tides, and loved it. While I agree it takes awhile to get going, it really picks up in the last quarter of the book or so.

I'm pretty good at keeping track of all the warrens and gods and such, but geography is something I have trouble keeping straight in pretty much any fantasy series I read, even with all the maps and stuff.

While reading Midnight Tides I kept trying to figure out where it was all happening in terms of the rest of the series, but I couldn't really pin anything down. Did I miss some sort of subtle clue? Does the book take place on Quon Tali/Genebackis or is it somewhere we haven't been yet in the other books?

If it's something spoilery, like it all took place in a warren or something that's cool. I just have this nagging feeling that I missed something important.

Also, huge spoiler when Bugg's true identity was revealed I nearly poo poo myself. I loved his banter with Tehol, and it's probably wishful thinking considering how far in the past this all took place, but will I ever see Tehol again?

The fate of the guy who Bugg sent into the depths of the sea, remember the Edur corpse in Memories of Ice? was meant to be an indicator of where it was bookwise, but it's set chronologically slightly before Gardens of the Moon. Lether is a different continent entirely to either Seven Cities or Genabackis (Quon Tali is a subcontinent off Seven Cities, incidentally), but don't worry, you'll be back there later on. And yes, Tehol and Bugg are both back and still two of the best characters in the series.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2011 02:34

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Spermy Smurf posted:

What characters will be ruined in this one?

Everyone in Darujistan. So Kruppe, Rallick, Coll and the rest of the Phoenix Inn lot, Kallor, Karsa until he gets back to SE in his own trilogy, Torvald (WHERE WAS MY ERIKSON WRITTEN REUNION IN TTH YOU FUCKS) and Tiserra, the Bridgeburners, Stonny, etc, but not Dassem as he left the city at the end of Toll the Hounds.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2011 17:25

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

I forget if it's posted already but here's the first 70ish pages of Orb, Sceptre, Throne, including maps, Dramatis Personae and a chapter or two.

Not reading past the cast list but there's some interesting stuff just in there.

# ¿ Dec 23, 2011 23:56

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

A couple of friends of mine are advance readers and have copies of both Orb, Sceptre, Throne and The Forge of Darkness right now. I'm very jealous.

# ¿ Dec 29, 2011 04:53

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

OK, I'm about 60% through Orb, Sceptre, Throne and holy balls this is an improvement. Don't get me wrong, there are still occasional touches of poor writing ("We Seguleh live in a very live by the sword, die by the sword way." "I understand!") but they're no longer omnipresent, just few and far between. The rest of it is much, much better. I was disappointed in Esslemont having two 'new' characters but one is still less annoying while being deliberately written more grating than Kyle or Stonewielder new guy and the other was less bad to begin with and also only in two POV sections so far. It's not a total fix of his issues but I'm really looking forward to finishing it. Oh, and the names! There's been I believe only one new character with a four letter name and that guy's relatively minor so far, which is almost the biggest improvement of all, ICE's names sucked in his earlier books.

# ¿ Jan 24, 2012 18:26

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Illuyankas posted:

OK, I'm about 60% through Orb, Sceptre, Throne and holy balls this is an improvement. Don't get me wrong, there are still occasional touches of poor writing ("We Seguleh live in a very live by the sword, die by the sword way." "I understand!") but they're no longer omnipresent, just few and far between. The rest of it is much, much better. I was disappointed in Esslemont having two 'new' characters but one is still less annoying while being deliberately written more grating than Kyle or Stonewielder new guy and the other was less bad to begin with and also only in two POV sections so far. It's not a total fix of his issues but I'm really looking forward to finishing it. Oh, and the names! There's been I believe only one new character with a four letter name and that guy's relatively minor so far, which is almost the biggest improvement of all, ICE's names sucked in his earlier books.

OK, I finished and while it's still a lot better than some of his previous work why did it fall apart at the end ICE, what the hell are you doing? I thought all those questions and hints you lined up during the meat of the book would have at least a degree of payoff instead you just completely ignored answering any of them! I certainly never expected ROTCG to have the best ending of ICE's books by this point, let me tell you.

e: Also Esslemont you may have changed that one pretty loving major character's gender as (possibly) a reference to how you and Erikson view your collective creation differently, and even included a method for how it could have happened, but it was still a stupid, pointless and unneeded change.

Oh, and even when you make this book's version of the new naive military recruit becoming a typical cynical/badass soldier plotline less bad, it's still the third book in a row you've used it. Please stop.

Illuyankas fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Jan 25, 2012

# ¿ Jan 25, 2012 17:45

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

zokie posted:

Also Steven Eriksson likes fat chicks!

Pretty ironic if you've ever seen his wife.

# ¿ Feb 9, 2012 16:23

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

savinhill posted:

One character of Erikson's that I think is just as well written as any of Martin's is Kallor. He has an arc that's similar to Jamie's in that I hated him with a passion and thought he was the biggest lowlife rear end in a top hat until I got to know him in later books and see things from his viewpoint, after that he became one of my favorites.

The best thing about Kallor is that in the same book that made people sympathetic to him is also the book where he flashbacks to murdering all his children literally the moment they are born by dashing their heads against the wall in front of their mother. But then he also mourns his horse, cops a feel off the creator of the universe and of course the duel at the end. Even if going from "Kallor. Kallor." to drinking in a pub was a little jarring so I don't know. Still one of my favourite characters in it.

# ¿ Mar 14, 2012 20:06

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

The whole Traveller thing got made a huge fuss of over on the official forums, due to a few members insisting that Traveller couldn't be Dassem because their eyes were different colours. Yes, really. We made fun of them the whole time up to and after the reveal in TtH.

# ¿ Apr 2, 2012 18:32

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

For the people discussing how (BH) the marines and people caught up to the Bonehunters after Y'Ghatan, they would have left by boat before the stragglers could have reached them if Grub hadn't suggested to Keneb to wait, and Keneb hadn't ordered his soldiers to stop loading equipment.

# ¿ Jun 25, 2012 03:20

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 01:46

Illuyankas: Oct 22, 2010

Kazanir posted:

WITNESS.

I'd witness a Karsa/Torvald Nom reunion scene if those bastards would only put one in the drat books!

# ¿ Jun 26, 2012 17:00

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > The Malazan Book of the Fallen: Too many wor'ds.

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