The Malazan Book of the Fallen: Too many wor'ds.

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Donkey: Apr 22, 2003

Junk Science posted:

I feel like this book could very appropriately have been titled:

A Dance With Dragons: Book 10 of the Malazan Book of Ice and Fire.

I finished TCG after the new thread title got chosen, but there was one quote like this that I'm disappointed didn't get used:

Malazan Book of the Fallen: It's loving raining dragons.

That or "poo poo! I have spoken." Although with that one some of the impact is lost if you don't realize "poo poo" is in the imperative mood.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2011 06:02

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# ¿ May 6, 2024 15:54

Donkey: Apr 22, 2003

I always assumed that the continued presence of Jaghut was part of the Imass cultural narrative. The end of Memories of Ice emphasized the hopeless ennui that all of the Imass experience after destroying themselves as an evolving culture to fight a seemingly endless war for 300k years. If you find a Jaghut every time you turn over a stone in the story it just drives the point home that the Imass completely failed at the task they destroyed their whole race to accomplish. The fact that most Jaghut turn out to be pretty decent folks also demonstrates the scale of the Imass' overreaction (or the depths of the Tyrants' cruelty, I suppose).

That seems to be why the T'lan Imass we meet at the end of MOI effectively say something like, "We don't care if there are Jaghut left anymore; this whole thing was a big stupid mistake."

# ¿ Oct 28, 2011 06:06

Donkey: Apr 22, 2003

Some time after she leaves for Darujhistan Tattersail notices that she basically just took off without bringing her Deck or any of her stuff or doing any planning. She realizes it's not something she would have ordinarily done, and blames it on being distracted by Paran. I think she also suspects that some kind of divine influence was behind the whole thing. Considering that K'rul eventually uses her to effect the resurrection of Nightchill, it's not outside the realm of possibility that he caused her erratic behavior. It's demonstrated to be within his power in MOI when he influences Toc to join Anaster's forces after telling Envy that he was going to have to send Toc into the embrace of the Seer.

# ¿ Dec 26, 2011 20:28

Donkey: Apr 22, 2003

Abalieno actually posted a quote from Erikson on the last page of this thread describing why the Letherii weren't an American analogy:

Erikson posted:

This brings me, at long last, to my portrayal of the Empire of Lether starting in the fifth novel in the Malazan sequence, Midnight Tides. The reason this subject is on my mind is that, once again, I have been asked in a Q&A whether that empire and its political and economic system was intended as a commentary on the United States. Each time I am asked this question, my response is no. So, let�s take this as definitive: there were two major themes in that novel, the first being about siblings and the journeys made by two sets of three brothers, and the second being about inequity.

It�s likely that one would have to go back to the Paleolithic to find a human society not structured by inequity, and even that is debatable, given the social characteristics of our nearest relatives, chimpanzees and gorillas. Without question, the agricultural revolution early on, which established sedentary civilizations, went hand-in-hand with the creation of a ruling elite and an emerging class system. The crust needs sludge to sit on, and the more sludge there is, the loftier the crust. Maintaining this system is made easier by inculcating the notion that the best rises to the top, and that opportunities always exist for it to do just that, although one could argue that these latter notions are more recent manifestations � certainly, the slave or serf in antiquity would need to step outside of the law to achieve wealth and comfort (and it�s no accident that such laws are both created by, maintained, and enforced by the elites).

I set out to explore inequity (as an aside, I have travelled through socialist countries and fascist countries, and guess what, poo poo smells like poo poo no matter what flag you stick it in), and one thing Midnight Tides taught me was that once a certain system of human behaviour become entrenched, it acquires a power and will of its own, against which no single individual stands a chance. A rather dispiriting conclusion, I admit. To this day, I�d love to see proof to the contrary.

I did not know I would reach such conclusions � well, not so much �conclusions� as grim observations, and I wasn�t particularly pleased to find myself where I did.

Every social construct now in existence among humans is founded upon inequity of some sort. People of one political persuasion or world-view will tell you it�s some kind of natural order, and thereby justify whatever cold-heartedness they harbour; others on the opposite end will decry the evidence and call for a leveling of humanity devoid of individuals. Both have had their day in history, and any particular pitch at present is, as far as I can see, a minor blip on the screen. We�re nothing if not headlong.

Themes. Themes can hurt. They can cut deep inside. There�s a reason why the subject is often taboo in writing workshops. Stripping back the fa�ade can reveal unpleasant things.

And the next time someone asks me if the Empire of Lether was a direct riff on the United States, I will say no, and mean it.

# ¿ Jan 24, 2012 02:20

Donkey: Apr 22, 2003

There have been a few complaints in the past that Erikson wasn't gentle enough with new readers. Not enough exposition, too many characters, don't know what's going on, etc. If you don't have much experience with that kind of Fantasy/Sci-Fi it may be hard to know when it's ok to gloss over some world-building details that ~~will~~ may be explained later, so I can see how it's a legitimate complaint. I think that that type of storytelling may have some benefits, though.

For example, I liked forming my own impressions about how warrens work or what they are based on the things I saw characters do with them or the details that we got. I imagine that's how most mages in the world are exposed to them- learning things in bits an pieces. Kulp does it when he takes what he knows about Meanas and realizes how he can use it to get out of the Nascent. That kind of experience over time gives me a more visceral impression of how the world works that if Erikson just explicitly explained how Quick Ben wove Telas, Serc, and Mockra together to make balefire (bad example, Robert Jordan does a good job easing people into the magic physics behind his system). It seems vaster and more mysterious, which appeals to me more than a Sandersonesque system where a the magic rules are countable and probably defined before the book is written (although I like Sanderson pretty well, too).

I also don't mind the Dragonball Z crazy magic fights much, either. This is basically a mythological-level setting, with gods and demons and all kinds of stuff. It would be unrealistic if some of them didn't have the powers that they do. Most of the cast of characters have the ability to get a hit in occasionally too, unless their specific narrative purpose is to emphasize mortality, human helplessness, the horrors of war, or some other aspect of ennui or pathos. The only times I get a disconnect are when there's a character that doesn't seem to do anything or have a purpose relative to the story (or whose storyline is done better by other characters in other Malazan novels). Ghelel from Return of the Crimson Guard springs to mind.

The biggest legitimate complaint I've seen is the vast number of warrior-philosophers that populate the armies of the Malazan universe. Even the most ignorant heavy infantryman has the ability to provide an extensive treatise on whatever is going on around them, punctuated with a burp or someone accidentally cutting off his own thumb.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2012 05:36

Donkey: Apr 22, 2003

apophenium posted:

I think I'm gonna forget about it and finally crack open Forge of Darkness. It's been about a year since I wrapped up The Crippled God anything I definitely need to remember before diving in?

You will be a child again.

# ¿ Dec 24, 2014 13:16

Donkey: Apr 22, 2003

I really enjoyed Fall of Light, but hoo boy, there are a lot of characters walking around explicitly discussing the themes and symbolism in the novel.

I was a bit surprised when Serap got her head cut off, considering that somebody named Serap Issgin married Kallor and killed herself in a flashback in TCG.

# ¿ Apr 29, 2016 02:16

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# ¿ May 6, 2024 15:54

Donkey: Apr 22, 2003

Kazanir posted:

Gotta say, Hood calling Gothos a gas-bloated goat is the highlight of the new book so far.

I'm partial to "Hunn Raal hosed a cookfire."

# ¿ Apr 29, 2016 20:43

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