The Malazan Book of the Fallen: Too many wor'ds.

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > The Malazan Book of the Fallen: Too many wor'ds.

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

Ccs posted:

Just finished the first book last month, good stuff. I got kind of annoyed with how prevalent magic is in the world, because most edgy fantasy these days (like A Song of Ice and Fire, The First Law, or the manga Berserk) has magic as a thing not many people believe is real or really know about. In Malazan it's just everywhere and some of the lore behind in all just seems excessive.

Its better to think about these books as if you're reading a giant Greek epic like the Iliad or Odyssey, only without the incomprehensible translations.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2011 07:48

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# ¿ May 1, 2024 15:48

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

Just finished The Crippled God, and while its ending comes full circle what with Shadowthrone and Cotillion again briefly contemplating letting the Hounds loose to create mayhem just like they did at the beginning of GoTM, and with retired Fiddler in Malaz City talking to some little kid about being a soldier and going out to change the world, just like he remembered doing the same when he was little there are still a hell of a lot of unresolved plot-threads that I wish he didn't obviously setup for Esslemont, because it gives you a drat case of blueballs. It should be a more...self-contained.

Examples:

1. The return of the Tyrant that was alluded to in Toll the Hounds, it goes loving nowhere.
2. Crokus/Cutter was headed to Seven Cities with Spite the last time we left them in Toll the Hounds, and while his reunion with Apasalar in the epilogue was touching I get the feeling we missed an adventure or two between here and there.
3. The Cult of the Fallen lead by Felesin Younger that Ganoes Paran left alone in The Bonehunters, another plot-thread that went nowhere.
4. Sandalath Drukorlat's last mention of her in The Crippled God is where she succumbs to the despair of her memories and subsequent insanity, she is only forced off the throne by Phaed's ghost. In addition to all that mention of unresolved family drama between her, Korlat, and Orfantal that blindsides you.
5. Errstas, for now, gets away scott free even after Draconus hunts down and kills Sechul Lath and Kilmandaros for freeing the Otaaral Dragon.
6. Telorast and Curdle, with all their scheming about being the ones on top when all is said and done, also another thread going nowhere

# ¿ Mar 19, 2011 15:02

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

Vanilla Mint Ice posted:

Most of them aren't really valid.

I'm surprised you haven't complained about the biggest missing plot thread in the series, the one about Karsa's destiny since he's such a major character in the series. But don't worry I guess since Erikson plans on writing a series of books on the Toblakai also.

The problem is that there are a lot of "open" plot threads. What I mean by "open" is that there's no resolution. Karsa's alluded destiny and the resolution of the Wickan plotline in The Bonehunters are situations resolved to satisfaction but left an optional plot-hook that doesn't necessarily need to be picked up. In The Crippled God and previous books, there's a lot of poo poo that's not even resolved.

# ¿ Mar 19, 2011 15:35

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

Vanilla Mint Ice posted:

I'm surprised you've made it this far if your retention is as bad as you say. It's not THAT much more plot threads in the tenth book than in the ninth. It's just the stuff from ninth and plus a few from eighth.

Consider Book 9 and 10 to be one book.

# ¿ Mar 20, 2011 20:02

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

Vanilla Mint Ice posted:

(BIG SPOILERS) I just realized something about Grub... He is titled the First Sword of the Last Empire in the future, could this be a possible reference to the upcoming future when Karsa Orlong sets off to fulfill his destiny? And being the Last Empire does this basically mean that Karsa in some way wins and destroys civilization? Now the question is then if this true what the 'last empire' would be, maybe the remnants of the Malazan Empire merged with the Letherii Empire? Since Mael basically has influence over both them and Letherii military will be following the Malazan way of combat since the only veterans will the ones with Brys. Or maybe not, since Mael and Tehol supported Ublala when he told them what Karsa planned to do. Or maybe Letherii IS last empire and Tehol will also make good on his promise to destroy civilization and the last empire is just the fact that after getting rid of everyone else Tehol dismantled his own empire. Karsa DID also promised to not kill the Malazans.

He's specifically referred to as the First Sword of the Malazan Empire's Late Empire Period in one of the biographical chapter headings

# ¿ Mar 23, 2011 00:38

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

Decius posted:

As I understood it: Hood used his daughter as sacrifice for the chaining. Dassem wasn't happy with that. At all. So he left Hood's "house" and vowed to kill him. Dessembrae is the part of Dassem that was turned into a god through worship of him. The odd thing, and the thing we haven't seen anywhere else in this form, is that Dassem and Dessembrae exist at the same time as separate entities.

TCG Spoilers Dassem realized the injustice they were foisting onto the Crippled God and refused to participate, but Hood took his daughter for the Chaining anyway.

# ¿ Mar 23, 2011 07:41

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

Habibi posted:

But did she know it?

TCG Spoilers Not until the end she didn't

# ¿ Mar 28, 2011 19:07

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

the periodic fable posted:

are you sure he actually called them the Talon? i seem to remember they were called something else but i might be mistaken.

HoC spoilers Laseen purged them from the empire prior to the events in Night of Knives. For the most part, the Talons who survived the purges are scattered and isolated. What Korbolo Dom has control of is most likely one of the fractured remnants of Dancer's organization which he used as a base for creating his own cadre of assassins. Its of no suprise that they're hell-bent on revenge against Laseen.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2011 20:18

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

the periodic fable posted:

well i'm pretty sure we've established that the new assassins are unrelated to the original Talons unless somebody comes up with a line in the books to the opposite.

House of Chains, Chapt.25, pp.929 (paperback edition):
Approaching a well-trod avenue between huts, he caught a flash of movement, darting from left to right across the aisle. Kalam dropped lower and froze. A second figure followed, then a third, fourth and fifth.
A hand. Now, who in this camp would organize their assassins into hands? He waited another half-dozen heartbeats, then set off. He came opposite the route the killers had taken and slipped into their wake. The five were moving at seven paces apart, two paces more than would a Claw. drat, did Cotillion suspect? Is this what he wanted me to confirm?
These are Talons.

# ¿ Mar 31, 2011 20:56

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

Weaponized Cum posted:

Redmask question.
after sagchurok and gruntmach kill him it is revealed that he is a letherii how is this important in any way or maybe I missed something really big

There's this whole sordid affair involving him, the Factor of Drene, his sister, and the Awl tribe they were both adopted into. TL:DR - When they were both really young they captured in a raid and adopted into the tribe. Some time later his sister was indebted to Anict's estate, and he attempted to free her and spur the Awl into action against the enroaching Lether Empire. There was some backlash when his sister was killed and in a rage he slew some of his tribe's elders for their inaction. For this he was banished. The secret that his tribe elder held over him (at least until he strangled him to death) was basically knowledge of this entire affair.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2011 18:07

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

A Nice Boy posted:

I'm thinking that of all the characters in MBotF, he's one of the most likely to end up having some part in the Karsa Trilogy. He's got his fingers in a lot of pots.

TCG spoilersIf anything Calm should've been one of the characters involved in the Karsa trilogy instead of being decapitated by Ubala Pung. Another big fat hint about the nature of Karsa's destiny when she was freed by Karsa back in House of Chains, it was another plot-thread that could've been picked up. Instead it was wasted.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2011 00:01

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

Oh Snapple! posted:

First in, last out

Better than the Bonehunter motto of: Last in, looking around :downs:

# ¿ Apr 12, 2011 23:05

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

And the more pathetic degenerates wonder why this entire genre gets little respect. Especially when authors write garbage like that for no thematic or literary reason.

# ¿ Apr 14, 2011 23:06

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

Bizob posted:

What happened to Sinn's brother, corporal Shard? I'm guessing he bit it at some point but I honestly can't remember.

DoD spoiler: chopped up by a giant lizard

# ¿ Apr 15, 2011 19:13

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

Juaguocio posted:

Erikson's strength is that he is able to evoke the kind of cosmic horror that you describe, and also write stuff that's just plain fun.

I would describe it more like a kind of tragedy in the literary sense. For all the world's horrors and the uncaring people in it who perpetuate injustice and cruelty Erikson shows that there is a glimmer of hope, through the the actions and characters of people like Fiddler, Gesler, and Stormy.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2011 03:13

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

Lunchtray posted:

Customers Who Viewed This Item Also Viewed:
http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Deadhouse-Memories-Midnight-Crippled/dp/B004SE9LIG/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_1

There's the full set for 150$ I'm guessing the additional $$ is for the premium on the latest book.

Is there a hardcover set that I can purchase with the kickass UK covers, because I'm not paying cash money for the lovely TOR/US Publisher covers.

# ¿ Apr 27, 2011 00:21

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

Levitate posted:

Apsalar would be my guess

She should have asian features then.

# ¿ Aug 6, 2011 19:36

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

Donkey posted:

There have been a few complaints in the past that Erikson wasn't gentle enough with new readers. Not enough exposition, too many characters, don't know what's going on, etc. If you don't have much experience with that kind of Fantasy/Sci-Fi it may be hard to know when it's ok to gloss over some world-building details that ~~will~~ may be explained later, so I can see how it's a legitimate complaint. I think that that type of storytelling may have some benefits, though.

For example, I liked forming my own impressions about how warrens work or what they are based on the things I saw characters do with them or the details that we got. I imagine that's how most mages in the world are exposed to them- learning things in bits an pieces. Kulp does it when he takes what he knows about Meanas and realizes how he can use it to get out of the Nascent. That kind of experience over time gives me a more visceral impression of how the world works that if Erikson just explicitly explained how Quick Ben wove Telas, Serc, and Mockra together to make balefire (bad example, Robert Jordan does a good job easing people into the magic physics behind his system). It seems vaster and more mysterious, which appeals to me more than a Sandersonesque system where a the magic rules are countable and probably defined before the book is written (although I like Sanderson pretty well, too).

I also don't mind the Dragonball Z crazy magic fights much, either. This is basically a mythological-level setting, with gods and demons and all kinds of stuff. It would be unrealistic if some of them didn't have the powers that they do. Most of the cast of characters have the ability to get a hit in occasionally too, unless their specific narrative purpose is to emphasize mortality, human helplessness, the horrors of war, or some other aspect of ennui or pathos. The only times I get a disconnect are when there's a character that doesn't seem to do anything or have a purpose relative to the story (or whose storyline is done better by other characters in other Malazan novels). Ghelel from Return of the Crimson Guard springs to mind.

The biggest legitimate complaint I've seen is the vast number of warrior-philosophers that populate the armies of the Malazan universe. Even the most ignorant heavy infantryman has the ability to provide an extensive treatise on whatever is going on around them, punctuated with a burp or someone accidentally cutting off his own thumb.

This. this is why I recommend starting Midnight Tides before going full-bore into the main series. It is a coherent and self-contained narrative and you don't have to slog through Gardens of the Moon and Memories of Ice to get a good barometer of Erikson's style of writing, and whether or not it is your cup of tea.

# ¿ Jan 31, 2012 06:06

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

pakman posted:

I also don't understand why the Errant drowned Feather Witch. Was she unsatisfactory as a high priestess?

He didn't want a High Priestess in the first place because he doesn't want the obligation, and he doesn't want to share.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2012 03:06

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# ¿ May 1, 2024 15:48

Boogle: Sep 1, 2004; Nap Ghost

The original founders of the Malazan Empire were originally a tight-knit group of friends. Even though it works towards their goals of ascension, it still hurts on a personal level when someone you thought was a close friend is willing to plant a knife in your back and step over your corpse for personal power.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2013 01:10

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