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There are too many hints dropped throughout the series about Quick Ben for it to be purely speculation. Many characters mention the "spicy scent" that indicates shapeshifting when QB is present, and Shadowthrone specifically calls him a "shapeshifting bastard" at one point. One of the more interesting and plausible theories I've read about QB is that he is constantly shifting between the different souls he has inside him rather than shifting his form like a Soletaken or D'ivers, which would account for his erratic behaviour and strange swings in mood.
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Oct 17, 2011 22:01
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Can we add this to the OP?02-6611-0142-1 posted:My take on Erikson was always that he expects you've read all his books at all times. When you read book 1, he expects you're read books 2-10, kinda. It sounds retarded, but it makes it infinitely rereadable. I can't think of a better way to explain the confusion of book 1 to new readers. EDIT: Haha, 02-6611-0142-1 is the OP. Add your quote to your post, buddy! 33rd Degree Idiot posted:Speaking of which, this brings up a good question: Outside of the Malazan series, which novels or series (of any genre) would you say are (even) better on a re-read? Moby-Dick. Every time I read it I find something new.
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Oct 18, 2011 23:27
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Mog posted:After investing thousands of pages on a horde of interesting characters, is it really necessary to cast them aside and introduce a few dozen new ones in book 8? I found this to be more of a problem in books 9 and 10. By that point, we've already become well-acquainted with several groups of characters who have struggled across deserts, and now we're introduced to a whole new group... who are struggling across a desert, with almost no context to relate them to the rest of the story. And then, our familiar friends resume their journey by... struggling across a desert. I swear to Hood, if Erikson writes one more prolonged desert crossing I am going to seriously re-evaluate my opinion of him.
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Oct 24, 2011 04:05
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Junk Science posted:This is where that one guy comes in to defend desert-crossing as the epitome of post-modern fantasy literature. The thing is, the Chain of Dogs and the various events centering around Raraku and Seven Cities in general are nothing short of superb, and I think books 2-7 of this series could very well be the epitome of fantasy literature of the epic world-building type. The problem with books 9 and 10 -to me, anyway- is that large portions of them feel like retreads of previous material, and I don't think Erikson was able to match the level of brilliance he achieved earlier in the series.
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Oct 24, 2011 11:13
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Abalieno posted:Apparently Erikson just finished the first book in the Forge of Darkness: What's the word count on some of the other Malazan books, for comparison? EDIT: Answered my own question. Per this site, Deadhouse Gates is around 272k, MoI is 358k. Still too many words, Steve! EDIT2: And I apparently didn't even notice that you yourself submitted that information. Eerie... Juaguocio fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Oct 27, 2011 |
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Oct 27, 2011 05:59
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On Hood (whole series spoilers): Hood fully expected the undead Jaghut to take vengeance on him when he came back in DoD, and admitted that he was wrong about... whatever it was that he did to end the Jaghut war against death. There are many hints that he betrayed his race somehow, and while I don't believe he was a true Tyrant, I think he may have been looking out for number one when he originally took the throne of Death. Also, the Imass didn't all join the ritual. Besides Kilava, in books 9 and 10 we meet a whole bunch of Imass who avoided the original ritual and evolved beyond their undead brethren, then became T'lan during a later ritual. Tool and his companions are extremely surprised that these other clans even exist.
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Oct 27, 2011 22:36
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The quality picks up considerably in the second book, but you should at the very least read a summary of the major events of GotM if you plan on skipping it.
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Nov 6, 2011 23:20
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NovemberMike posted:I thought gods were just ascendants that had worshippers. Rake isn't a god because he doesn't have real worshipers and the thing that defined Dassembrae was that his enemies worshiped him. Being a god also ties you to your worshipers in a way that a normal ascendent isn't. Rake is also worshiped as the Black Winged Lord by the people of Bluerose.
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Dec 20, 2011 10:24
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Very interesting indeed. I'm not going to read any of the chapters, but the map and Dramatis Personae sound promising. Looks like we'll finally get some more about the Seguleh, and southern Genabackis in general. I like the fact that the pagecount is around 600, since I feel that ICE does better when he keeps things fairly tight.
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Dec 24, 2011 01:39
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pile of brown posted:I know it's all spergy and nerdy but why would they draw Icarium's sword like that when it's described as a "single-edged blade" a hundred times per novel? Icarium's sword bugged me too. I don't think it's spergy to complain, because the single-edged thing is literally its defining feature. I'm pretty sure it's described in as many words almost every time it appears in the books.
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Dec 24, 2011 05:47
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angerbeet posted:Also everyone wants to sleep with Tattersail because the authour loves big booty women. Steven Erikson: archaeologist, philosopher, poet, chubby chaser.
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Dec 27, 2011 00:19
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pakman posted:I just finished MoI. What a great book. I cried at the Itkovian funeral as well as many other parts near the end, i.e. Whiskeyjack et al. Also, what exactly is Paran (probably answered later), but half hound of shadow, half man. Other questions as well: How did Tool become flesh again? Where did Duiker come from in the Epilogue? Who was that man outside the Azath House coughing in the epilogue? What is the significance of KB&B coming up the road to Coral? You'll find out more about Paran later. Duiker's body was found by Baruk's servants at the end of DG, and since he used the vial that was meant for Coltaine, Baruk was able to resurrect him. I can't recall the answers to your other questions offhand.
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Jan 15, 2012 02:24
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RotCG takes a long, long time to get going, which is easily its biggest flaw. ICE is not able to tie all his disparate elements together as well as Erikson, so a lot of the characters seem kind of pointless. Things pick up towards the middle of the book, however, and the ending is really good. I would actually recommend skipping Ghelel's chapters, since she is annoying as hell and hardly contributes at all to the overall plot.
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Jan 24, 2012 23:40
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Sir Bruce posted:My major complaints about sexual stuff is that sexual depravity is often used as signal to the reader that "this is a bad guy/person", which is a cheap way to get reader sympathy and is tension with a lot of his themes about the interrelationship between barbarism, justice, and heroism. This was my biggest problem with Reaper's Gale. Invictad, Yathvenar and the other Patriotists are never characterized as anything but sadistic, short-sighted, emotionally crippled, horrible, vile people. We never feel any sympathy for them, because they are never given the chance to be sympathetic. Erikson can clearly write complex, sympathetic "villains" -witness Kallor- so it kind of mystifies me that he chose to portray the Patriotists in such a cartoonish moustache-twirling way. I was actually offended by the rape scenes in RG, because they were so unnecessarily drawn out. It seems to me that Erikson robbed the scenes of any emotional power they might have had by making them so prolonged, and so disgustingly graphic.
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Jan 28, 2012 03:58
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Abaliano, you really need to read the rest of the series before you continue to defend Erikson like this. Books 7-10 are the main reason why many of us feel that his writing is overly wordy and drawn out. He does not tie things together as well as you think he is going to.
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Feb 4, 2012 01:33
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I just hope that Erikson's promised shift in tone means that we don't have to read the musings of more world-weary soldiers. I've had enough of that to last a lifetime after DoD and TCG. I finally got around to picking up Orb, Sceptre, Throne today. I'm glad I took some time away from this series, as I'm enjoying it much more than I expected to.
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Mar 10, 2012 03:26
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Finished Orb Sceptre Throne today, and oddly enough, I think it could have been longer. ICE is definitely improving as a writer, but he seems to rush his books to their conclusions; Stonewielder had the same problem. Aside from the lack of resolution at the end, however, I'd say OST is his best book yet. Almost all of the returning characters from Erikson's books felt right to me, and the interactions ICE creates for them are all really great. There were some great surprises too. Bauchelain and Broach! Chaur returns! Madrun, Lazan and Studlock continue to be highlights as well. I'm a bit confused about the Seguleh First's mask, though. Where did that thing come from? I can't remember anyone finding it during the course of the book, and I also don't recall it being mentioned anywhere else in the series, unless it's what the Seguleh who captured Iron Bars were looking for. EDIT: Oh wait, did Oru come from the Spawns with Antsy? That would explain it. Also, Oru is the male Seguleh 11th, but I thought the 11th was the female Seguleh who was scheduled to fight Rhulad in RG? Am I misremembering this? Juaguocio fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Mar 15, 2012 |
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Mar 15, 2012 01:52
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Stew Man Chew posted:why can't he spare one of the seventeen paragraphs about Minor Character X's views on Honor to you know. Mention why an entire race of beings just pops into existence and averts a major plot point. Welcome to the pain that is the latter half of this series.
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May 8, 2012 23:45
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Erikson's inconsistency is the problem for me. Sometimes he is able to balance the fantastic and meditative sections perfectly, and other times it comes off as a mishmash. Same with his interviews- sometimes he's humble and accommodating, but other times he comes across as an arrogant dick.
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May 13, 2012 00:14
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There definitely is an overarching story developing in ICE's novels. It's not always obvious who the big players in the game are, but OST makes things clearer, and sets many interesting elements in motion. I think it's worth reading for Antsy's dungeon crawl alone.
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May 23, 2012 08:07
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pakman posted:I just finished The Bonhunters. Mallick Rel happened. Read RotCG next and all will be revealed.
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Jun 20, 2012 00:02
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dishwasherlove posted:I just finished Return of the Crimson Guard and I didn't think it was too bad! Maybe because I took a 4 month break from the series since finishing The Crippled God. But goddamn Kyle. Oddly enough, Kyle goes from one of ICE's worst characters in RotCG to one of his best in Stonewielder. Am I alone in thinking that the Dresden Files are total crap? I read up to Death Masks, and I couldn't take one more sentence of Butcher's awful prose. I rag on Erikson sometimes, but Butcher is so much worse that there's really no comparison.
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Jul 23, 2012 03:46
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Don't get me wrong- using lighter fare to break up heavier reading is a great idea; I like to use Agatha Christie novels for this application. I wonder if Erikson or ICE ever read Dame Agatha? Have either of them discussed their literary influences?
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Jul 24, 2012 06:15
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I've nearly finished Forge of Darkness and this thread's title has never seemed more appropriate. Erikson seems to have made it his mission to crush his plots under a mountain of tormented inner monologues.
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Nov 19, 2012 06:57
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Leospeare posted:FoD is about Tiste Andii, so it's entirely appropriate. Hell, I'd be disappointed if it wasn't wall-to-wall torment. When he gets to the Karsa trilogy--the character who coined "Too many words"--I expect we'll see a major style shift. It does make sense, especially since Fisher is ostensibly writing down Gallan's narration. Forge Of Darkness is still pretty cool, exorbitant pathos aside. I think I enjoyed every scene involving characters from the Book Of The Fallen, and it was only with the bit players that things fell down a notch. Scenes like Anomander's farewell to Hish and Gripp are why I keep reading this series, despite its flaws.
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Nov 20, 2012 11:18
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Erikson's depictions of violence, like many aspects of this series, get a lot worse in later books. I thought the scenes of rape/sexual torture in Reaper's Gale were graphic to the point of being distasteful. The violence in the battle scenes is also completely absurd at times. I can remember a scene where Erikson actually describes someone's scapula flying through the air. Juaguocio fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Jan 10, 2013 |
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Jan 10, 2013 04:54
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Masonity posted:That's still two and a half years of good reading. Plus at least 50 will be worth re-reading at least once. You would seriously re-read the Dresden Files? You have a high tolerance for horrible prose, my friend. I couldn't even make it through that poo poo once, and I used to read Piers Anthony.
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Apr 7, 2013 23:01
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Hipster Occultist posted:Oh, on Gruntle: I'm not 100% sure, but I believe Trake actually wanted Gruntle to help Kilava stop the dragons. Gruntle was just so sick of being manipulated that he decided to screw up the plan and try to get Trake killed.
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Apr 11, 2013 00:21
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amuayse posted:I don't really understand how the decks of dragons work. It's a method of divination, similar to the way people use Tarot cards in our world. Skilled users of the Deck can interpret the castings to reveal the current balance of power among Houses and Ascendants. The "roles" on the cards are not set in stone, and shift throughout the series depending on who is at the center of events. If I had to guess, I would say that Erikson originally intended Paran to be a POV character throughout the series, then changed his mind later on.
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Jul 26, 2013 22:41
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bigmcgaffney posted:He is in one of the chapter blurbs in one of the books iirc Memories of Ice posted:The Last Mortal Sword of Fener’s Reve was Fanald
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Oct 10, 2013 04:31
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nucleicmaxid posted:drat. My least favorite trope is the 'Character speaks in the third person' thing. It's so very very Freshman Creative Writing Course wackiness that it just irks me. Oh well, I'll wait for the payoff and get through. Erikson and ICE both have degrees in Creative Writing. Make of that what you will.
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Oct 27, 2013 04:37
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Habibi posted:What? Who else? Picker, Scillara, Felisin Younger.
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Jun 29, 2014 05:21
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Finally got around to reading Blood And Bone, and I'm really surprised at how bad ICE's prose is. SW and OST were a considerable improvement from RotCG, so I don't understand how he could have taken such a massive step backwards. He really needed a better editor to crack down on the awful sentence fragments and misplaced modern slang.
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Oct 18, 2014 02:36
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Finished B&B today. I wasn't into it at all to begin with, but I liked the way that the different stories started to link up as they moved towards a convergence. Unfortunately, as with several of ICE's other books, the ending feels rushed and unclear. I've reread a few sections, and looked up some analysis on some Malazan forums, but I'm still not really sure what exactly Saeng and Osserc accomplished. I guess they stopped the Thaumaturges from bringing down another Crippled God-like entity, but it wasn't clear to me if they were working together or not. Similarly, the T'Riss/Ardata confrontation was one of the book's crucial scenes, but the resolution happened "off-screen," and the subsequent explanation seemed pretty lame. I actually liked the "army in the jungle" plot, until it turned out to be completely pointless. The funniest part about B&B for me is that its best scenes are literally just Osserc and Gothos sitting at a table doing nothing.
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Oct 26, 2014 00:50
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It's been mentioned before in this thread, but I'm reading A Confederacy Of Dunces right now, and the similarity between Ignatius J. Reilly and Kruppe seems too close to be a coincidence. Has Erikson ever discussed a possible John Kennedy Toole influence on his writing?
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Oct 27, 2014 01:41
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Cardiac posted:I just finished MT for the third time, and it is among the best books in the series. Also, the only book where the Crimson Guard is not boring. Ain't it the truth? I'm about 2/3 through Assail, and the Crimson Guard have spent the whole book being a bunch of dumb idiots. Iron Bars is one of the best characters in MT, but in ICE's hands, he's just one of a long succession of braindead goofs that we're somehow supposed to care about.
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Nov 7, 2014 09:45
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Someone in Assail, can't remember who exactly, refers to mages as "manipulators of dimensional leakage." I imagine we'll find out more about the way "magic" works as the Kharkanas trilogy progresses.
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Nov 8, 2014 01:44
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Finished Assail, and I think I'd agree that it's ICE's worst. I enjoyed Kyle, Fisher and Crust's scenes, but overall it's a badly conceived, poorly written book. The sheer number of typos that made it into the final publication really speaks to the level of care that went into its creation. It would be funny to go through the whole Malazan Empire series and count the number of times a character loses consciousness, then wakes up and gets told about how the plot has advanced.
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Nov 8, 2014 11:04
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Jethiss is by far the worst "mystery character" either Malazan author has done. It's going to be completely stupid if he turns out to be Rake, but if he isn't Rake, then why did ICE drop so many hints indicating that he is, only to not reveal anything at the end of the book? As I was reading Assail I was literally shaking my head at how loving dumb that plotline was. EDIT: I said earlier that I liked Fisher's chapters, but in retrospect, they're brought down by ICE's complete inability to write songs and poetry. There's a part where the Losts convince Fisher to sing them a song before the big fight, so he recites some poo poo that sounds like it was written by an angsty 15 year old, and they're like "WOW DUDE, THAT'S SO DEEP AND TRAGIC." There were a lot of eye-rolling moments in Assail, but that one really stuck out for me. Juaguocio fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Nov 21, 2014 |
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Nov 21, 2014 21:02
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Cardiac posted:Then the question is what Stonewielder is about, since the Crippled God is involved in that as well? Stonewielder and Blood and Bone both overlap the timeline of DoD/TCG and tie up a few loose ends from the Crippled God plot. I would recommend reading SW first, then B&B, but only after finishing the main Malazan arc. You could probably read SW before TCG, though- I don't recall any spoilers for the end of the Book of the Fallen.
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Nov 24, 2014 04:02
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