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pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.

Small White Dragon posted:

Can I have my UIViewController be transparent to the one behind it?

UIViewController does not itself appear on the screen, so I assume you mean its view. Feel free to set its view's opacity, but I wouldn't expect the stock container view controllers to work like you seem to want. For example, if you push a semitransparent view controller on to a navigation controller, don't assume you'll see both view controllers' views.

Another thing to think about is passing touch events, orientation changes, and all that to view controllers that are visible behind your semitransparent one.

I'm curious, what's your intended use case here? I feel like there's a better way to solve your problem.

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Simulated
Sep 28, 2001
Lowtax giveth, and Lowtax taketh away.
College Slice

Lumpy posted:

I have a conceptual question: The app I am working on shows a list of video mail messages. The messages (video files) are being downloaded in the background and I want to provide an activity indicator to the user, preferably a UIProgressView. I know how to do this in a "normal" view, so tying the progress bar to the DL isn't the problem, it's how do I deal with this in a table view? Do I make a single UIProgressBar and hang onto it in the class, and add it to the cell view of the appropriate cell (but then what happens if / when I reuse that cell?) Do I give every cell a progress bar, and only show it in the appropriate cell? If so, how do I handle it's delegate as it pops in and out of existence on scroll?


I basically do this exact thing in Storm Sim. There will be some number (eg: 8) created by the table view at any one time and they will always exist. Have the progress reported to your controller as the delegate. The UIProgressView itself doesn't need a delegate, it just has a progress property.

When you hit cell for index path hide the progress view if there is no progress, otherwise show it and set it to the current progress value you have stored.

Whenever the delegate fires on your controller, check that the cell currently exists for the indexPath. If it comes back nil, that progress view isn't visible and you can ignore the value (or store it in the controller if you can't dynamically get it from your model).

If it does exist, you can get progress view and update the value right there.

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

La! La! La! Laaaa!



College Slice

Ender.uNF posted:

I basically do this exact thing in Storm Sim. There will be some number (eg: 8) created by the table view at any one time and they will always exist. Have the progress reported to your controller as the delegate. The UIProgressView itself doesn't need a delegate, it just has a progress property.

When you hit cell for index path hide the progress view if there is no progress, otherwise show it and set it to the current progress value you have stored.

Whenever the delegate fires on your controller, check that the cell currently exists for the indexPath. If it comes back nil, that progress view isn't visible and you can ignore the value (or store it in the controller if you can't dynamically get it from your model).

If it does exist, you can get progress view and update the value right there.

Perfect, thanks a ton for the insight.

go play outside Skyler
Nov 7, 2005


Well, we got some feedback from our app which was rejected for being "Marketing materials or advertisement". We basically removed the "inbox" (which, come to think about it, was just a way for us to shove poo poo down people's throats), added 2-3 extra features and mostly a lot of content, BUT we got rejected again!

Fortunately, though, this is a technical issue which means I can get it fixed in no time. However, I'm just not really clear on what exactly they mean with the following sentence:

quote:

9.3: Audio streaming content over a cellular network may not use more than 5MB over 5 minutes

As you might remember, we have an audio player which just uses AVPlayer to stream some MP3s from our server. With this rule, do they mean that after 5 megabytes over 5 minutes the app has to say "no more" if on a celular network? Or is it just a convoluted way to say the audio shouldn't be over 5 megs/5 mins = 136 kilobits/sec?

Both options are not hard at all to implement (I can re-encode the MP3s), so if anyone has ever had this issue before (or just understands the rule better) it'd be cool if they could explain it. Thanks!

Simulated
Sep 28, 2001
Lowtax giveth, and Lowtax taketh away.
College Slice

Sir Davey posted:

Well, we got some feedback from our app which was rejected for being "Marketing materials or advertisement". We basically removed the "inbox" (which, come to think about it, was just a way for us to shove poo poo down people's throats), added 2-3 extra features and mostly a lot of content, BUT we got rejected again!

Fortunately, though, this is a technical issue which means I can get it fixed in no time. However, I'm just not really clear on what exactly they mean with the following sentence:


As you might remember, we have an audio player which just uses AVPlayer to stream some MP3s from our server. With this rule, do they mean that after 5 megabytes over 5 minutes the app has to say "no more" if on a celular network? Or is it just a convoluted way to say the audio shouldn't be over 5 megs/5 mins = 136 kilobits/sec?

Both options are not hard at all to implement (I can re-encode the MP3s), so if anyone has ever had this issue before (or just understands the rule better) it'd be cool if they could explain it. Thanks!


Typically you'd have a Wifi MP3 and a Cellular MP3 and hit the correct one based on the current connection type. (Obviously the cell one will be lower quality).

Doc Block
Apr 15, 2003
Fun Shoe
Ugh, had what I thought was a great idea for an app, but checking the app store it seems there are already a bunch of apps with similar functionality.

I might still do it, since a lot of the other apps look pretty terrible, but :mad:

So much for me thinking of myself as a clever guy...

Doc Block fucked around with this message at 00:33 on May 8, 2011

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

La! La! La! Laaaa!



College Slice

Doc Block posted:

Ugh, had what I thought was a great idea for an app, but checking the app store it seems there are already a bunch of apps with similar functionality.

I might still do it, since a lot of the other apps look pretty terrible, but :mad:

So much for me thinking of myself as a clever guy...

Ideas are a dime a dozen. Great execution is the difference maker.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
e: wrong thread

Simulated
Sep 28, 2001
Lowtax giveth, and Lowtax taketh away.
College Slice

Doc Block posted:

Ugh, had what I thought was a great idea for an app, but checking the app store it seems there are already a bunch of apps with similar functionality.

I might still do it, since a lot of the other apps look pretty terrible, but :mad:

So much for me thinking of myself as a clever guy...

I just has the same experience, but coding is already underway on my app... Then I used their app and realized there is a subtle but all-important difference. Hopefully I can deliver on the great execution part.

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

La! La! La! Laaaa!



College Slice
Forgive the attachment, but I can't describe this in any other way, and I can't figure out how to :google: for this.

The top is my app almost ready to rock... the only thing left to do is drag the UISplitView delegate outlet to the right side ViewController (which supports UISplitViewDelegate) so it can handle rotation. I do that, and when I launch, I see the bottom.

I'm sure I'm doing something dumb... but what?

EDIT With "fix": After pulling my hair out all afternoon, I started doing stupid things, and one worked. In the MainWindoe-iPad.xib file, I clicked on the left side Navigation Controller item. In the Attributes Inspector, I un-checked then re-checked 'Shows Navigation Bar' and 'Shows Toolbar' and now it works as expected. :ms: ??

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Lumpy fucked around with this message at 00:00 on May 10, 2011

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!

My Dr. Mario clone is up and running in the simulator.



I just got touch/buttons working, next up is respawning the pieces and doing the matching/elimination of pieces. I wrote this game last year using OpenGL/SDL so I've basically just been copying and pasting some badly written C code into a UIView subclass. Oh, and I used Quartz2D instead of OpenGL ES (Why? Hell if I know).

I'm going to bug an iPhone guy at work tomorrow and see if he can load it on an actual device so I can jerk off to it. This is pretty much the only iOS or MacOS thing I've done so far, unless you count examples from books.

klem_johansen
Jul 11, 2002

[be my e-friend]
Just about to issue a new app and I got this note warning me against compiling it with 4.3, noting that Verizon users won't be able to run them.

So, do I have to retrograde to the 4.2 sdk? Is that even possible? My only options are 3.2 and 4.3.

In the build's summary I can change the development target to 4.2 and rebuild, but I'm still worried because I'm compiling with 4.3. The code itself is almost completely unchanged since I last built it with 4.1, so I should be fine. Right?

klem_johansen fucked around with this message at 04:46 on May 10, 2011

Small White Dragon
Nov 23, 2007

No relation.

klem_johansen posted:

Just about to issue a new app and I got this note warning me against compiling it with 4.3, noting that Verizon users won't be able to run them.

So, do I have to retrograde to the 4.2 sdk? Is that even possible? My only options are 3.2 and 4.3.

In the build's summary I can change the development target to 4.2 and rebuild, but I'm still worried because I'm compiling with 4.3. The code itself is almost completely unchanged since I last built it with 4.1, so I should be fine. Right?
Newer SDKs can produce binaries that run on older OSes just fine. If you set the target to 4.2 and don't use any 4.3-specific APIs, you'll be fine.

Doc Block
Apr 15, 2003
Fun Shoe

klem_johansen posted:

Just about to issue a new app and I got this note warning me against compiling it with 4.3, noting that Verizon users won't be able to run them.

...?!?!

Is Verizon forcing Apple to delay 4.3 for CDMA iPhones for "testing" or whatever?

klem_johansen
Jul 11, 2002

[be my e-friend]

Small White Dragon posted:

Newer SDKs can produce binaries that run on older OSes just fine. If you set the target to 4.2 and don't use any 4.3-specific APIs, you'll be fine.

Thanks!

Simulated
Sep 28, 2001
Lowtax giveth, and Lowtax taketh away.
College Slice

Small White Dragon posted:

Newer SDKs can produce binaries that run on older OSes just fine. If you set the target to 4.2 and don't use any 4.3-specific APIs, you'll be fine.

This.

Also note that the number of new APIs between 4.0 and 4.3 is pretty small so odds are you can set 4.0 as your target OS which opens you up to most devices except the original iPhone.



edit: Has anyone with an iPad2 noticed you can get it into a wierd screen-locked but not locked state? Basically certain interactions of the smart cover and plugging/unplugging the power adapter get the screen functionally locked but the actual "swipe to unlock" screen isn't visible so you can't unlock it.

Simulated fucked around with this message at 14:47 on May 10, 2011

Small White Dragon
Nov 23, 2007

No relation.

Ender.uNF posted:

This.

Also note that the number of new APIs between 4.0 and 4.3 is pretty small so odds are you can set 4.0 as your target OS which opens you up to most devices except the original iPhone.
Also the original iPod Touch, I believe?

There actually have been ABI changes in each of the major versions, but I think the current SDKs can target back to 3.0 or so. (Although Apple no longer accepts apps that run on 2.x.)

Simulated
Sep 28, 2001
Lowtax giveth, and Lowtax taketh away.
College Slice
I thought it was 3.0 that introduced the "modern" runtime (non-fragile base classes and the ability to add ivars dynamically) and was the last ABI change but I could be wrong.

Substar
Jan 21, 2001

xcode 4: What the poo poo?

Where can I choose what version of iPhone to use in my simulator or device? Everything is showing up in old 480x320 resolution, not Retina's 960x640. Even when I deploy to my iPhone 4, it shows up as 480x320.

Simulated
Sep 28, 2001
Lowtax giveth, and Lowtax taketh away.
College Slice

Substar posted:

xcode 4: What the poo poo?

Where can I choose what version of iPhone to use in my simulator or device? Everything is showing up in old 480x320 resolution, not Retina's 960x640. Even when I deploy to my iPhone 4, it shows up as 480x320.

In the simulator, you can select Retina display or non.

In the upper-left drop-down you will see each product listed, then under the product you will see the available devices and versions (eg: iPad 4.2, iPad 4.3, iPhone 4.2, iPhone 4.3, etc) but that depends on what your project targets.

Small White Dragon
Nov 23, 2007

No relation.

Ender.uNF posted:

I thought it was 3.0 that introduced the "modern" runtime (non-fragile base classes and the ability to add ivars dynamically) and was the last ABI change but I could be wrong.
Hasn't it always been non-fragible ABI?

Anyway, a lot of the various utilities (e.g., classdump, otool) will often error or throw lots of warnings on binaries compiled with major new iOS releases, and usually there are some additions to the Mach-O structures and defines with major new releases.

It's possible some of those changes may be backwards compatible, though, I'm not sure.


Substar posted:

xcode 4: What the poo poo?
XC4 is definitely a big change, but it is a lot better in many ways -- once you figure it out.

pokeyman
Nov 26, 2006

That elephant ate my entire platoon.

Ender.uNF posted:

I thought it was 3.0 that introduced the "modern" runtime (non-fragile base classes and the ability to add ivars dynamically) and was the last ABI change but I could be wrong.

I don't think it was ever introduced, iPhoneOS started on the modern runtime.

If there was a transition it wasn't for 3.0, the only relevant API diffs are for a version constant and NS_NONATOMIC_IPHONEONLY.

Substar
Jan 21, 2001

Ender.uNF posted:

In the simulator, you can select Retina display or non.

In the upper-left drop-down you will see each product listed, then under the product you will see the available devices and versions (eg: iPad 4.2, iPad 4.3, iPhone 4.2, iPhone 4.3, etc) but that depends on what your project targets.

Thanks, that's what I was looking for... the device dropdown under hardware in the simulator. I was just looking under xcode.

Zhentar
Sep 28, 2003

Brilliant Master Genius

Small White Dragon posted:

XC4 is definitely a big change, but it is a lot better in many ways -- once you figure it out.

The more I use Xcode 4, the more I find about it to dislike. The improved autocompletion is too much to give up to go back to 3.2, but that's about it for me.


Is there any secret hidden option to adjust the scrollwheel speed? It doesn't seem to respect the system preference.

wellwhoopdedooo
Nov 23, 2007

Pound Trooper!
If anyone has tips about how to improve Xcode 4, I know I'd appreciate the hell out of them, and I bet others would too.

I'm not looking to make Xcode into Visual Studio--their handling of the UI is infinitely better than Visual Studio, other than the game of loving Twister you have to play to hit any useful keyboard shortcut, and yet "Close the gently caress out of the application" is a single easy-to-hit keystroke. I looove the way it handles windows, and indenting wrapped lines, I don't get why I can't even find something like that for Visual Studio.

That said, there's a lot of thing I miss. Like Ctrl-Tab swapping between two source code windows. Or the life-changing AllMargins extension. Or multiple column guides. Or even being able to see what the gently caress column you're on at all. Seriously. What code editor, other than Xcode, offers NO goddamn way to see what column you're in? It's loving baffling.

So, is there like an Xcode extensions/tweaks site I don't know about? Some documentation of options that don't have a UI? Because honestly, it's like programming in a future full of graceful, swooping, impossibly tall buildings made of glass and pearl, but you have to dangle your rear end out the window to poo poo because ... "what the gently caress is a 'bathroom'?"

eeenmachine
Feb 2, 2004

BUY MORE CRABS
marshmonkey and I's company NimbleBit have been developing for iOS going on 3 years now with a good deal of success. We put together a little infographic to celebrate the milestone: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/461612/NBgraph.jpg

I'd be happy to answer any questions or give any advice about iOS development or App Store strategies.

Doc Block
Apr 15, 2003
Fun Shoe
Is it true about the "Always release on Thursday. Always." thing? If so, why do you think that is?

eeenmachine
Feb 2, 2004

BUY MORE CRABS

Doc Block posted:

Is it true about the "Always release on Thursday. Always." thing? If so, why do you think that is?

I never put much stock in releasing on a certain day. The most important thing is to set your release date to a future date so you can control the release instead of putting it live right when it is approved. After an app is approved you can send promo codes to media and review sites which will let them test the app so you can have enough coverage to have a decent launch on that future date.

At this point we don't have to worry that much though because every new game we release gets coverage on all the major sites and we've been lucky enough to have Apple feature every game (Pocket Frogs got the very first iPhone/iPad game of the week features).

Lumpy
Apr 26, 2002

La! La! La! Laaaa!



College Slice
Another iPad question! I'm porting an iPhone app to be universal, and the root view controller is the Master (left) VC in the split view controller. On app launch, the app sees if a user is logged in, and if not, displays a modal login window. in the iPhone and iPad - Landscape mode, works like a charm. However, on the iPad in portrait mode, nothing. I'm guessing since the master view isn't being displayed, it can't show the modal window? Any suggestions on either getting that modal to display, or am I going to have to scrap what I have?

:argh:

I made a method in my app delegate to show the modal, but still nothing. WHY???

code:
// in MyAppDelegate
- (void)showLoginWindow:(LoginViewController *)loggy
{

    NSLog(@"my root viewcontroller is: %@ and loggy is %@", self.window.rootViewController, loggy);
    // above shows what I expect

    // [self.window.rootViewController presentModalViewController:loggy animated:YES];
    //above works in iPhone and iPad landscape.

    if (UI_USER_INTERFACE_IDIOM() == UIUserInterfaceIdiomPad) { 
        UISplitViewController *splitty = (UISplitViewController *)self.splitView;
        NSLog(@"Splitty is %@", splitty); 
        [splitty presentModalViewController:loggy animated:YES];
        // above works fine in landscape
    } else {
        [self.window.rootViewController presentModalViewController:loggy animated:YES];
    }
}
How on earth can you present a modal view controller in a UISplitviewController on launch??????

Lumpy fucked around with this message at 02:42 on May 12, 2011

Simulated
Sep 28, 2001
Lowtax giveth, and Lowtax taketh away.
College Slice

eeenmachine posted:

marshmonkey and I's company NimbleBit have been developing for iOS going on 3 years now with a good deal of success. We put together a little infographic to celebrate the milestone: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/461612/NBgraph.jpg

I'd be happy to answer any questions or give any advice about iOS development or App Store strategies.


How have you gotten artwork done for your apps? My biggest problem with starting a game project is I can't find an artist to work with. (I'm sure at this point you have the cash to pay whoever you need). My current goal is release early and often so I've been focusing on projects that I can do on my own without having to wait on or rely on anyone else.

So far I haven't done any advertising except here on SA but my live app (Storm Sim) is somewhat niche. My next app isn't but it isn't a game either.

Any other general advice would be appreciated.

Simulated fucked around with this message at 01:54 on May 12, 2011

eeenmachine
Feb 2, 2004

BUY MORE CRABS

Ender.uNF posted:

How have you gotten artwork done for your apps? My biggest problem with starting a game project is I can't find an artist to work with. (I'm sure at this point you have the cash to pay whoever you need). My current goal is release early and often so I've been focusing on projects that I can do on my own without having to wait on or rely on anyone else.

So far I haven't done any advertising except here on SA but my live app (Storm Sim) is somewhat niche. My next app isn't but it isn't a game either.

Any other general advice would be appreciated.

We are lucky enough that my brother is an artist and I am a programmer. We haven't and probably never will contract anything out, it just gets too messy.

My biggest piece of advice is usually that it is almost always better to have more people using your app. A lot of devs are scared of free but it gives you 10x the audience and there is almost always a way to monetize that. Might not make sense for the niche utility apps you mentioned though.

Ziir
Nov 20, 2004

by Ozmaugh
Anyone have a PowerPC Mac (with gfortran and make installed) and can help me out real quick? I just need someone to compile and run a program for me, and then email me back the data file(s), and I need a PowerPC Mac specifically because I need a big endian machine :downs:.

dizzywhip
Dec 23, 2005

wellwhoopdedooo posted:

Or even being able to see what the gently caress column you're on at all. Seriously. What code editor, other than Xcode, offers NO goddamn way to see what column you're in? It's loving baffling.

I'm sure you've seen this option already, but just in case, if you're just trying to do manual line wrapping at a certain column, you can set a page guide in the preferences that will gray out everything past that column.

Probably the biggest annoyance for me, other than the broken git integration, is the keyboard shortcut situation. Xcode lets you set your own keybinds for a lot of the shortcuts (which is an awesome feature), but some of them are missing (like pushing repository changes), and one of the commands arbitrarily won't let me set the shortcut I want.

The jump to next/previous counterpart shortcuts used to be Command + Alt + Up/Down in Xcode 3. In Xcode 4 they changed Alt to Command for some reason, which is a much more awkward key combination. I also use Command + Alt + Left/Right to switch tabs, so it would work out nicely if I could use the same modifier keys for switching between header and implementation files. But for some reason, Xcode 4 doesn't let me set that particular key combination for that particular command. It'll let me set it to whatever else I want, and I can set other commands to that key combination, but it just refuses to work in that specific situation.

Fortunately, I discovered recently when I upgraded to a new MBP with a multi-touch trackpad that you can jump to previous or next counterparts with a three-finger up or down swipe.

Other than that issue, I think the two biggest things I'd like to see in Xcode are improvements to the tabbed interface and a minimap like Sublime Text has. On higher resolution screens there's a lot of unused real estate on the right side of the text editor that would be perfect for a minimap.

Overall though I think Xcode 4 is a huge improvement. The interface is incredibly slick, and the code completion and live error checking is really great.

Simulated
Sep 28, 2001
Lowtax giveth, and Lowtax taketh away.
College Slice
Are you kidding? With the left and right bars open and the assistant view on there is absolutely no space. Using the assistant while editing an iPad XIB is almost useless and I have a 1920x1280 MBP.

I guess I need to setup a workspace with a second monitor.

OHIO
Aug 15, 2005

touchin' algebra
Some patent troll is asking for licenses on people using in-app purchases: http://cultofmac.com/ios-devs-under-fire-by-patent-troll-for-offering-in-app-purchases/94916

I hope Apple helps him out, I don't know what the gently caress I'd do.

OHIO fucked around with this message at 17:43 on May 13, 2011

dizzywhip
Dec 23, 2005

Ender.uNF posted:

Are you kidding? With the left and right bars open and the assistant view on there is absolutely no space. Using the assistant while editing an iPad XIB is almost useless and I have a 1920x1280 MBP.

I guess I need to setup a workspace with a second monitor.

Well I'm talking about having source files open, not XIBs. I have a 1680x1050 MBP and with the file browser open and lines wrapped at 120 characters, about a quarter of the screen is just empty on the right.

Simulated
Sep 28, 2001
Lowtax giveth, and Lowtax taketh away.
College Slice
Speaking of in-app purchases, the "Manage in-app purchases" link in iTC seems to be gone but if I go directly to my apps I can still get to it from that page. I submitted some items for review but I'm not sure if they are processing items in that queue or not. I can't remember from last time if the system emails you like it does for apps. Not a huge deal, just curious if anyone else has seen this.


Also: Patent process broken in this country? Used by blood-suckers to extort money out of the successful people? I'm shocked, simply shocked.

This is probably just their attempt to setup some precedents by going after small devs with no resources so they can use that to go after the big players... or be annoying enough that Apple pays them to go away without having to sue Apple directly. They'll probably claim Apple doesn't have legal standing to get directly involved in the cases but try to force enough apps off the app store that Apple has to respond. I doubt it will work but with the craziness of patent law in this country who knows.

edit: SCOTUS fairly recently said you can't take multiple bites at the "apple" so to speak, if you sue a manufacturer (i.e. apple) you can't also sue the customers. I don't know if the issue of suing customers (i.e. devs) directly was fully addressed, though I wanted to say they struck that down... as an innocent user of an infringing product you can't be sued for patent infringement in that product. However they may be trying to claim that we devs are the manufacturers in this case... but a decent lawyer should be able to prove that Apple's SDK is the actual issue.

Not to mention both of these patents are so obvious as to be worthless and should fail under the KSR test but the lower courts don't seem to have fully applied that logic yet.

Simulated fucked around with this message at 19:57 on May 13, 2011

wellwhoopdedooo
Nov 23, 2007

Pound Trooper!

Ender.uNF posted:

Are you kidding? With the left and right bars open and the assistant view on there is absolutely no space. Using the assistant while editing an iPad XIB is almost useless and I have a 1920x1280 MBP.

I guess I need to setup a workspace with a second monitor.

You can make a separate tab to edit XIBs in, with the assistant editor much narrower, or on the bottom, or just off. It's kind of a pain, but a lot better than turning the assistant editor on and off.

The left and right bars on the other hand, are Cmd-0 and Cmd-Alt-0, so they're pretty easy to open and close at need.

If you have a second monitor, you can even open a new window, with its own tab setup. I gotta say, that's pretty sweet. I wish I wish I wish I could do that in Visual studio, instead of their loving awful tearoff editor implementation.

Major Thom
May 7, 2006

By training and a hundred scientific secrets, I became what you see - a human being who lives and thrives under the water
I've been agonizing over whether to get a 21.5" iMac or a 27" iMac. The hardware isn't the stumbling block - it's the screen resolution.

In short, the 27" has enough vertical resolution for me to easily work on full-size retina mockups in PS. I've always developed and designed on a 15" MBP, and that kind of extra space seems like it could be a game changer.

So I guess my question, to those of you who currently use the 27", is this: would it be agonizing to have to do your work on the 21.5"?

I understand that it's a matter of taste. But still.

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wellwhoopdedooo
Nov 23, 2007

Pound Trooper!
Is there any difference between declaring overridden methods in the overriding class's @interface and just defining the new @implementation?

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