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ToxicSlurpee posted:One thing that has always, always baffled me is the antagonism that is developing between the movements. Really, if equality is the end goal feminism and men's rights should be getting together and sorting out ways for everybody to be happy. But, instead, we have MRAs trying to undo a century or more of progress. That's because MRAs don't want equality, they want women back under mens' boots where they've been throughout most of history and where they think they belong. "MRA" is just another word for "misogynist"; they pay lip service to equality while fighting it with every fiber of their being. Misandric feminists are part of the problem too, but only a tiny (but vocal) percentage of feminists are also misandrists and MRAs blow it way out of proportion and ignore that a misandric feminist's views are not the views of the entire movement.
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Jul 23, 2014 18:05
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razorrozar posted:Doesn't work on Mormons. They like to socialize. Mormons are great. If you have some chores to do they will help out. Granted you have to listen to their patter, but if you need to till your garden or haul some trash they are supposed to pitch in.
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Jul 23, 2014 18:15
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Rumda posted:Yeah but equality is NOT the goal of any MRA. Equality isn't the goal of any movement. It might be the goal of individuals, but movements largely want the stomping boot to be on the other foot. Theirs. Regardless of the movement, it's just that some - MRAs, the Brady Campaign, particularly shouty megachurches - are more upfront about it than others.
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Jul 23, 2014 18:33
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Exit Strategy posted:Equality isn't the goal of any movement. It might be the goal of individuals, but movements largely want the stomping boot to be on the other foot. Theirs. Regardless of the movement, it's just that some - MRAs, the Brady Campaign, particularly shouty megachurches - are more upfront about it than others. You have this backwards, sorry. The goal of (mainstream, not radical) feminism is equality. The goal of some individuals within feminism is to get the stomping boot on the other foot.
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Jul 23, 2014 18:50
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razorrozar posted:That's because MRAs don't want equality, they want women back under mens' boots where they've been throughout most of history and where they think they belong. "MRA" is just another word for "misogynist"; they pay lip service to equality while fighting it with every fiber of their being. "Misandry" is a myth, sorry.
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Jul 23, 2014 18:53
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butplug accident posted:"Misandry" is a myth, sorry. Is it? I assume the "man-hating feminist" stereotype exists for a reason, and I seem to remember feminists that do actually say things about men that are just as hateful as anything MRAs say about women. I'm not saying you're wrong; if I'm misunderstanding or misrepresenting, enlighten me. See also: Besesoth posted:You have this backwards, sorry. The goal of (mainstream, not radical) feminism is equality. The goal of some individuals within feminism is to get the stomping boot on the other foot.
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Jul 23, 2014 18:59
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razorrozar posted:That's because MRAs don't want equality, they want women back under mens' boots where they've been throughout most of history and where they think they belong. "MRA" is just another word for "misogynist"; they pay lip service to equality while fighting it with every fiber of their being. It's weird though because I hear the word "equality" from MRAs a lot and it's weird because I remember when the men's rights movement started and, in those days, was briefly a proponent of it. It was always about the places where there were inequalities, like the total lack of support for men in abusive relationships or the disenfranchisement of fathers. Hell, I remember growing up watching the way my mother treated my father and thinking "this is wrong, why is she getting away with this?" At that point there was no antagonism toward feminism nor any "get back in the drat kitchen" bullshit just "hey uh, we have a lot of men being deliberately separated from their children or abused by women and nobody cares, let's fix this." Other complaints were based on things like the fact that feminist groups were always demanding more women in prestigious, powerful places but ignoring the fact that over 90% of carpenters and fishermen were still men but they never complained. I've been scratching my head wondering what the hell happened that shifted things from "yeah we're fine with feminism but think it isn't perfect and does a few things wrong" to "women are all gold digging whores that want to run the world and you should hate them." Yeah, sure, some women are awful people but not all women are. Assuming that is absurd. I can understand resisting some of the more radical, insane sects of feminism but resisting all feminism, in general? That's ridiculous. Feminism, as a whole, as done way more good than harm.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:08
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Any given person can be irrationally hated for any reason. I'm sure there are ladies who hate men just for being men. Valerie Solanas certainly wrote about that a lot! Most of the time when people say something is misandry, though, they're pretty wrong. Military drafts being men only, for instance, is not about misandry, given that those rules were codified before women could even vote, let alone be legislators. TV commercials about how men are clumsy oafs are created by an industry in which the creative directors are more than 97% male. To Toxic Slurpee's point: The main reason there are relatively few women carpenters isn't because women scorn carpentry as a profession, it's resistance from male colleagues and employers, which isn't just historical. AlbieQuirky has a new favorite as of 19:18 on Jul 23, 2014 |
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Jul 23, 2014 19:11
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AlbieQuirky posted:Any given person can be irrationally hated for any reason. I'm sure there are ladies who hate men just for being men. Valerie Solanas certainly wrote about that a lot! That's not what I meant by misandry. I'm talking about feminists who are every bit as hateful towards men as MRAs are towards women (the difference being that misogyny is all but universal among MRAs while misandry is a tiny fringe part of the overall feminist movement). And when I say "they're part of the problem" I mean that wanting women to start treating men the way men have been treating women is just as wrong as continuing to treat women the way they've been treated. I just want everyone to really, truly be equal. Anyone who wants to step on someone else for any reason is an enemy to that, in my book. This excludes the vast majority of feminists, but that fringe, however small, is still a problem.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:16
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razorrozar posted:I just want everyone to really, truly be equal. Anyone who wants to step on someone else for any reason is an enemy to that, in my book. This excludes the vast majority of feminists, but that fringe, however small, is still a problem. I agree. Hateful shitheads need to shut up in general.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:19
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razorrozar posted:That's not what I meant by misandry. I'm talking about feminists who are every bit as hateful towards men as MRAs are towards women (the difference being that misogyny is all but universal among MRAs while misandry is a tiny fringe part of the overall feminist movement). And when I say "they're part of the problem" I mean that wanting women to start treating men the way men have been treating women is just as wrong as continuing to treat women the way they've been treated. Yeah that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. The hateful Reddit MRAs shoved the non-hateful ones out the door. I was reading the stuff Warren Farrell was saying and thinking "hey yeah this guy gets it" and looking for the real equality. As more and more hateful, bitter MRAs starting overtaking literally everything I looked at how awful the movement got and went "yeah I want no part of this poo poo, I'm out," discarded a few awful beliefs, and got on with my life. There are problems that need fixed coming from both directions but we'll only fix them coming from both ways. MRAs get that very, very wrong.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:30
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razorrozar posted:Is it? I assume the "man-hating feminist" stereotype exists for a reason, and I seem to remember feminists that do actually say things about men that are just as hateful as anything MRAs say about women. There's a different between misogyny/misandry as a personality trait, and misogyny/misandry as social phenomena. MRA types like to claim that there exists a systemic prejudice against men, and label it "misandry" as a way of co-opting feminist terminology. (See also "reverse racism" and "heterophobia".) If you point out that this "misandry" doesn't really exist, at least not independently from the very biases feminism is fighting, they will point to examples of individual misandry as "proof." So the answer is that misandry does exist as a personality trait, but as a societal phenomenon it's basically nonexistant. Misogyny on the other hand is very real in both senses. (At least that's my understanding of it...)
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Jul 23, 2014 19:39
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Besesoth posted:You have this backwards, sorry. The goal of (mainstream, not radical) feminism is equality. The goal of some individuals within feminism is to get the stomping boot on the other foot. I might just be seeing the Internet version of some groups, or an overwhelmingly shouty minority. AlbieQuirky posted:I agree. Hateful shitheads need to shut up in general. This. Exit Strategy has a new favorite as of 19:54 on Jul 23, 2014 |
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Jul 23, 2014 19:44
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My WTC moment was reading through a thread of some hosed up poo poo and then randomly encountering a feminist discussion in it's place.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:55
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DesolateRampage posted:My WTC moment was reading through a thread of some hosed up poo poo and then randomly encountering a feminist discussion in it's place. At least it's civil. That's better than most. Also, a lot of people don't seem to remember that the more radical, hateful feminists are often that way as a reaction to the world, like that crazy lady who hated her sons because the got caught with porn. She was abused. Also-also, the radical, hateful ideologies are shunned by feminism at large. The majority of feminism condemns the kind of cruel behavior and speech that they are regularly accused of. Many men would benefit more from feminism if they could just get over the name.
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Jul 23, 2014 20:17
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Indolent Bastard posted:Mormons are great. If you have some chores to do they will help out. Granted you have to listen to their patter, but if you need to till your garden or haul some trash they are supposed to pitch in. My Jack Mormon fiancee said the exact same thing to me. And one time I had some Mormons show up (which I wasn't expecting in the least given that I live in England rather than Idaho), but we just shot the poo poo for a little while and talked about the game of Civ IV I had up on my computer at the time as much we did the Big Cheese.
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Jul 23, 2014 20:28
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I had just gotten off a plane a few weeks ago and went into the restroom to take a leak. It was packed in there and every urinal had a man at it, and all of a sudden from one of the toilet stalls this guy screams "AAAAGH! GOD REMOVE THIS BEAST FROM ME! AAAAAAGH! Needless to say all of us pissing mid-stream look back and look at each other with a look of wtf/mixed with laughter. I just finished up, washed my hands and left. No idea whether the beast got out or what.
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Jul 23, 2014 22:06
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Count Freebasie posted:I had just gotten off a plane a few weeks ago and went into the restroom to take a leak. It was packed in there and every urinal had a man at it, and all of a sudden from one of the toilet stalls this guy screams "AAAAGH! GOD REMOVE THIS BEAST FROM ME! AAAAAAGH! Needless to say all of us pissing mid-stream look back and look at each other with a look of wtf/mixed with laughter. I just finished up, washed my hands and left. No idea whether the beast got out or what. Bendyman claimed another victim. 
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Jul 23, 2014 22:32
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Captain Trips posted:I just got done talking to three bible-pushers myself. I'm an atheist, but telling them that always seems to make them stay longer, so this time when he asked if I read the bible, I said "Yeah, I was raised Catholic." If you can't learn to politely refuse them and shut the door, just pick up a "No Soliciting" sign. You can just point to the sign and shut the door on them and it's their fault for ignoring the sign! Also works on magazine salesmen.
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Jul 23, 2014 22:37
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Ariong posted:If you can't learn to politely refuse them and shut the door, just pick up a "No Soliciting" sign. You can just point to the sign and shut the door on them and it's their fault for ignoring the sign! Also works on magazine salesmen. Or, you know, borrow a girlfriend's red lipstick to draw an upside pentagram on your forehead, and embellish a knife with it too, THEN answer the door. (The joy of apartment building neighbors giving you advance notice they are in the building.)
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Jul 23, 2014 23:10
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Alien Arcana posted:MRA types like to claim that there exists a systemic prejudice against men, and label it "misandry" as a way of co-opting feminist terminology. (See also "reverse racism" and "heterophobia".) If you point out that this "misandry" doesn't really exist, at least not independently from the very biases feminism is fighting, they will point to examples of individual misandry as "proof." Yeah it's like dudes that go "LOOK! IT'S SNOWING HERE, THIS VERY SECOND, THEREFORE GLOBAL WARMING IS A MYTH!" Mormons mostly ignore those signs that say "No solicitors/sales people please" in my experience. Just yesterday I had them come to my door and say "Oh but we're not selling anything!". Yeah you are, you're selling religion, regardless of what you think it costs. I don't go to your house ringing your doorbell trying to sell you reason and logic, don't come to mine trying to sell me on your magical bearded skyfairy.
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Jul 24, 2014 01:41
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Just put a mezzuzah on the door frame. Mormons don't gently caress with Jews.
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Jul 24, 2014 02:23
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Is there a reason why? Also, do they ignore Islamic households too?
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Jul 24, 2014 02:33
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I used to invite them in for a cup of tea and listen to their spiel, while patiently cleaning a firearm. Now I just ignore the door. Thanks, IP camera.
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Jul 24, 2014 03:23
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The buzzer on the condo my parents lived in in the 80's had a 30-second time limit. My dad would get the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons to start up their spiel then leave them talking to dead air for several minutes.
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Jul 24, 2014 03:35
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karl fungus posted:Is there a reason why? Also, do they ignore Islamic households too? Because Jews will always tell them to go away. Any Jew religious enough to put a mezuzzah on their door is not going to be even remotely interested in converting. When I was a kid, dad eventually got pissed off enough at the door knockers that he pointed out the mezuzzah on the door and told them that any house with one of those is not going to be interested, and to not waste their time. We didn't see another one of them for years and years, and I don't think any of our (Jewish) neighbours did either. Hydrolith has a new favorite as of 03:40 on Jul 24, 2014 |
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Jul 24, 2014 03:37
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Hydrolith posted:Because Jews will always tell them to go away. Any Jew religious enough to put a mezuzzah on their door is not going to be even remotely interested in converting. As a kid, dad eventually got pissed off enough at the door knockers that he pointed out the mezuzzah on the door and told them that any house with one of those is not going to be interested, and to not waste their time. We didn't see another one of them for years and years, and I don't think any of our (Jewish) neighbours did either. My God! Your Dad is why they will never visit us again. 
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Jul 24, 2014 03:42
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Ogive posted:I was just given a brochure that was ostensibly pro-one world government, but on further examination is a Jehovah's Witness recruitment tract. I didn't understand a word the man who gave it to me said, which really made it hard to be polite. Apparently there are enough of them that they can rent out a place for 3 days and have a convention about it. It's not just Canada, I got one of these stuck in my screen door a couple weeks back and I'm in Florida. Had a pretty good laugh though!
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Jul 24, 2014 03:44
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Regalingualius posted:If I recall right, it's because seeing-eye dogs are supposed to be supremely disciplined to serve the needs of the person, and that could be compromised if they're shown too much affection. Service Dogs! Meet Miss Mia.  Mia has been my Seizure Alerter for 12 years. Whoever told you that Service Dogs are not permitted affection is a jackass. They are showered with affection by their human partner. You may not see it in public, but it happens all the time. Why? Because it strengthens the bond between you. What is not permitted with Guide Dogs is any interference from strangers unless there is an emergency. We (my training partner) and I teach the dogs a 'visit' command. This allows children and the curious to come say hi, pet the dog, and learn a little about the world of Service Dogs. There are a lot of misconceptions out there, and this is a chance to clear things up for people. One thing that is dead on is that, when in uniform, the dogs are all business. They know that they have a very important job to do, and that they must be as close to perfect in public as possible. Amazingly, they learn this very quickly. They associate that jacket/harness with Work, and dogs, in general, love having something to do. Going to work is so very important to them that retiring one from active work is hard. Mia has had a replace--I mean, back up--for a few years now. But if I leave her home and she isn't sick, she trashes the house in protest, dragging garbage onto the bed.
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Jul 24, 2014 04:10
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Exit Strategy posted:I used to invite them in for a cup of tea and listen to their spiel, while patiently cleaning a firearm. Congrats on being even weirder than them, then.
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Jul 24, 2014 04:21
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Absurd Alhazred posted:My God! Your Dad is why they will never visit us again. Aw crap. Sorry, everyone  Chantilly Say posted:Congrats on being even weirder than them, then. 
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Jul 24, 2014 04:43
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A while back, I was walking my ~13 lb puppy and she goes to do her business. After she's done, I notice something weird in her poo poo. She poo poo out an entire. Intact. Condom. What the gently caress dog and also  She has also poo poo out a rock before 
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Jul 24, 2014 09:10
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Psychobabble! posted:A while back, I was walking my ~13 lb puppy and she goes to do her business. After she's done, I notice something weird in her poo poo. She poo poo out an entire. Intact. Condom. This is why you throw that poo poo away in the bathroom trash and keep that door closed. Because my Lab has definitely dug out a used rubber before and brought it to me while he was trying to wake me up the following morning before. Not the best way to start the morning after a happy ending to a nice date.
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Jul 24, 2014 09:12
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Beach Bum posted:This is why you throw that poo poo away in the bathroom trash and keep that door closed. Because my Lab has definitely dug out a used rubber before and brought it to me while he was trying to wake me up the following morning before. I know, I'm normally good about it  I finished the walk with pretty much this look on my face:  She went through a period in puppydom where she pooped out a lot of weird stuff despite us keeping her either confined to her x pen or with us at all times. We had one walk where she just kept. making GBS threads. gum. Just, loads of it and all I could think was "gum? Where did you get gum? We don't even have gum in the house." Luckily she seems to have grown out of that phase at least vOv
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Jul 24, 2014 09:24
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Dogs, especially black labs, eat anything/everything. It's amazing! Also, poop kid an pee kid are at the very least going to be goons some day, if not serial killers.  EDIT: The schadenfreude is on me, the poop/pee bit was supposed to be in the "poo poo kids say" thread. AMISH FRIED PIES has a new favorite as of 10:32 on Jul 24, 2014 |
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Jul 24, 2014 10:25
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Ottoman posted:Oh and when the younger girl was 5 she once was holding her behind and said to me "my butt feels good and I don't know why!" I really hope she doesn't turn into a slut.
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Jul 24, 2014 13:40
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Ogive posted:I was just given a brochure that was ostensibly pro-one world government, but on further examination is a Jehovah's Witness recruitment tract. I didn't understand a word the man who gave it to me said, which really made it hard to be polite. Apparently there are enough of them that they can rent out a place for 3 days and have a convention about it. Last week I met some Chinese people in the Munich subway and a German granny talking to them in Chinese. They all wore pink nametags with a logo i didn't know. I must've smiled at the granny talking Chinese (I learn Chinese myself) since they greeted me and asked in English if I understood what they were saying. I answered yes (in Chinese, they were talking about at which stop to get off, easy topic) and they suddenly showered me with invitations to their conference. Turns out they weren't a tour group but Jehova's Witnesses holding a one world - one government conference. About 700 people, most of them from China. In Munich  I didn't even know they had Jehova's Witnesses in China.That was my what-the-literal-Christ-moment last week.
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Jul 24, 2014 14:57
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cyfad posted:I didn't even know they had Jehova's Witnesses in China.
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Jul 24, 2014 15:02
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There are Jehovah's Witnesses in China (some of my friends are, I'm an atheist), but it's pretty hush-hush.
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When I worked night audit at a local franchise of a national chain of hotels, for a period of several weekends in the summer, the J-dubs held conventions at a local arena. Each weekend, we had a major run on towels, and the Monday towel count was always extremely short, meaning that people were taking them home. I don't know why in the gently caress they wanted these towels, they were practically made of semi-transparent sandpaper, rather than terrycloth. On J-dub weekends, I worked 11 pm to 11 am, to help out with the large numbers of requests. Our Front Desk Manager, Jack, had the check-in shift, and he was a gossipy sonofabitch who could turn anything into drama. Think Cam from Modern family, only 4'8" and 90 pounds. He had been raised JW, and was shunned by his aunt and uncle, who raised him after his parents died when it became extremely evident that he was gay. For the third weekend of this series of conferences, there was one family that came in trailing twelve kids(literally), wanting to rent two non-adjoining rooms, specifying that one was to be at one end of the upstairs hall, and the other one was to be at the opposite end of the hall, as close as possible to the lobby. This was notable primarily because, as night audit, I was the one who assigned rooms, and policy was that rooms reserved under the same name always got assigned first, and to adjoining rooms whenever possible, and we rarely had to change that. When I walked in that night, Jack was falling all over himself to tell me about it. They'd had a number of complaints about noises from around both of the rooms, and it was only 11 pm. The room at the front, complaints about children yelling and squealing. The room at the back, extremely strenuous sex noises. It was fairly obvious where the kids were and where the parents were. Our policy was that we couldn't crack down hard on noise until midnight, which meant that I had to field calls for an hour dealing with noise complaints. At 12:01, I called the parents' room, told them of the noise complaints, and that we had a 3 strikes policy, and that was the first strike. If we had to call again in the next twenty minutes, that was strike 2, and if we had to call again, then they would be kicked out, and their card would be charged not only for the whole night, but for the rooms that we would be comping to the people complaining about noise. (That wasn't something that we ever actually did, as the hotel owners had been told that it was against corporate policy the first time they tried it.) The noise complaints stopped completely. The rooms went silent after that. As this was the third weekend, and the hotel had lost so many towels the two weekends previously, the housekeepers and the front desk were keeping a list of room numbers that requested extra towels, and the quantity the rooms got. All the rooms needed extra towels, and usually more than double normal-issue. Those two rooms were the big towel users that weekend, and had checked a ton of towels out of not only each maidcart, but at the front desk, and the housekeeping storage room as well. Sunday morning, we ran out of towels completely. When that happened, policy was to go to each room, retrieve every towel that could be found, wash them all, and reset the rooms with the standard numbers of towels. Most of the rooms, even ones with large numbers of towels checked out, had just the standard number, maybe two extra. Finally, the head housekeeper got to the kids' room and opened the door to find 8 sleeping bags laid out, and a massive pile of soaking wet towels in the corner of the room behind the love seat. The kids had been getting them from the maids and front desk, and giving out other peoples' room numbers.
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