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Come monday my month of a hellish work schedule is coming to an end, so it's time to get back to training. First local grappling competition in the history of ever in three weeks, so I basically have to win that. Welp, time to get back into shape I guess. It's pretty funny, but dropping training for a month was more like going on vacation than the actual vacation from work I had previously.
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Jul 29, 2012 11:18
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| # ? May 16, 2024 11:19 |
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Is this really going to get someone to tap?
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Jul 29, 2012 12:10
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I've had a seriously strong dude do that to me, and while I didn't tap, my neck made crunching noises and hurt for a week afterwards, so yeah, in some cases, probably.
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Jul 29, 2012 12:23
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Yeah, it would
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Jul 29, 2012 15:27
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Nierbo posted:Is this really going to get someone to tap? Could it work? I guess. Should it? Never. If I ever get tapped to that I'll quit jiu-jitsu. I've been grappling for 8 years and I've never even seen someone try that. If you can break someone down like that it's a much higher percentage to roll up behind and take the back.
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Jul 29, 2012 18:49
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Nierbo posted:Is this really going to get someone to tap? We drilled that a few weeks ago. Its hard to get because of leverage, but yeah its just a head an arm triangle choke like any other, but instead of using your weight as the leverage to finish the choke, you use your guard to do it. I've never finished anyone like this, but it sets up for a really easy sweep so I've hit it a couple times.
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Jul 29, 2012 18:56
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The arm triangle works great for no-go, especially if the guy throws a punch while in your guard. I don't understand the skepticism about it, it's just a basic choke.
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Jul 29, 2012 19:47
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The olympic fencing makes me sad at the state of competition in the HEMA world. Sigh. Maybe I should just blow some cash on going to Swordfish this year or something.
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Jul 29, 2012 20:43
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I got a neck injury once from a bigger guy trying to arm triangle me from guard. It never really hurt enough to tap and it definitely wasn't a blood choke so I just sat there with him cranking on it and waited for him to open his guard so I could pass. I was pretty stiff the next day and it took a few weeks for me to fully recover my neck strength and range of movement. I don't know if anything could stop someone from doing the 'answer the telephone' defense and using their other hand to move their elbow back over your head though.
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Jul 29, 2012 21:36
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Kumo Jr. posted:Could it work? I guess. Should it? Never. I really suck at jitz, how would you prevent someone with huge arms from applying the choke if they had you broken down? If it's bad enough that you're totally dismissive of the move, how can I prevent strong people from strangling me like that?
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Jul 29, 2012 22:14
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Fontoyn posted:I really suck at jitz, how would you prevent someone with huge arms from applying the choke if they had you broken down? Well, Im just a white belt so take this with a grain of salt but the main way to avoid this is of course first, posturing up and distancing to open guard, and finally t-rex arms which will prevent him from extending your arm infront of you to arm triangle you in the first place. Its usually I find thrown on in the middle of a closed guard grip/posturing fight, so if you're aware of where your arms are when for example guy on the bottom pulls your elbows out and pulls you down, then even if your posture is broken down towards him, your arms are at least close in to you, protecting your neck and helping re-establish posture. Oh and how someone else said, I imagine (only imagine, because Ive never been in an MMA fight, just light sparring) that it can also happen but ground and pound from guard from a poor posture, thus missing and overshooting your punch for him to overwrap you like that. Finally like someone else said, in a grappling sense its more useful to use that position to overwrap, hip out, and take the back instead of trying to finish the triangle. This has to do with points in a tournament, and higher percentage strategy in taking someones back rather than attacking from guard. Again, just a white belt, but I hope a more experienced BJJ guy can pipe in, because I might just be full of poo poo. swagger like us fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jul 29, 2012 |
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Jul 29, 2012 22:18
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More simply - keep your elbows in and don't allow your arm to cross the centre line.
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Jul 29, 2012 22:28
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Rhaka posted:The olympic fencing makes me sad at the state of competition in the HEMA world. Sigh. It really comes down to the FIE, even the simple fact that there is an FIE. And this is something I've intimated that most HEMA'ers are anemic to, a bureaucratic governing body that sets the standard for all others to go by. For example, most rule changes in fencing are really interpretation changes that start among the current crop of FIE-rated referees. From there, the theory goes, the changes are passed to the national refs on down to the local refs. Not to say that the only way to do it is to have a single set of rules. I've learned otherwise about several disciplines from this thread that work it out differently (Judo and BJJ are the ones I'm thinking of), but this is how it has worked with fencing. And there's only one reason why this has "always" been the way, fencing's status as an Olympic sport since the revival has meant that it has had an international governing body since the 20's. I'll be honest, I don't know fully where the HEMA community is at the moment. Whether y'all are still people opening centuries old manuscripts and resurrecting a single school of fighting or if y'all have moved onto the MMA format of stripping individual schools to "techniques that really work" and combining them into a single style. As far as rules go, the question is where on the spectrum of combat sport to martial art do y'all want to land. in fencing, we lean heavily to combat sport, which is why, even though we grumble, most accept rules that are changed to outright ban techniques, e.g. the flick in foil and fleche in sabre. quote:Maybe I should just blow some cash on going to Swordfish this year or something. Possibly, but only you can be the judge of that one. I poked around on the web and saw that it's done by a club in Sweden that is looking to create (and has, as of this year, chartered) the Swedish HEMA Federation. If you support the school and this SvHEMAF ideologically, going is a way to show your support.
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Jul 29, 2012 23:54
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BirdOfPlay posted:It really comes down to the FIE, even the simple fact that there is an FIE. And this is something I've intimated that most HEMA'ers are anemic to, a bureaucratic governing body that sets the standard for all others to go by. For example, most rule changes in fencing are really interpretation changes that start among the current crop of FIE-rated referees. From there, the theory goes, the changes are passed to the national refs on down to the local refs. HEMA is filled with big egos, that's a large part of where the balking against a governing body comes from--there's a few organisations that attempt something (HEMAC being the european one, several national ones) but so far no attempts have been made at "formalising" the sport, so to say. Basically every event/tournament I've attended uses a different ruleset. Some use an afterblow, some don't. Some count doubles, some dq the fighters. Some fight to a set amount of points, some to a point advantage, etc. Makes reffing interesting. It'd be nice if things were a bit less schizofrenic. The main styles of specific weapons seem to be decently understood these days--Liechtenauer fences like THIS, Meyer like THIS, etc, although upsets and new insights still happen fairly regularly. Mostly fighting has been boiling down to a bunch of global principles and techniques, with styles adding their own unique flavour. Some groups are heavily into sticking to their style as closely as possible, some are more tournament oriented. A lot of groups originated as reenactment/SCA type groups, so yeah. I don't think a single style will ever really arise for specific weapons, though at least there's been a move the past few years to standardising equipment at tournaments--fencing jacket/mask, heavy lacrosse/hema specific gloves, gorget, knight shop nylon wasters/(Regenyei?) steel federschwerts. Honestly, I'd be happy if we'd just end up with something close to fencing rules, only with heavier weapons/protective gear. I really enjoy competing, but it's just such a mess. quote:Possibly, but only you can be the judge of that one. Yeah, I know the club/people involved, they're pretty on the level. They're straight up tournament fighters, and while they're a bit HEMAISSERIOUSBUSINESS at times, you know, they keep winning everything. Must be doing something right. Maybe I *will* go, if I can afford the trip there and it fits into my schedule my club will probably pay for the event itself. At least I'm hitting up Fightcamp, which is always fun.
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Jul 30, 2012 02:31
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Fontoyn posted:I really suck at jitz, how would you prevent someone with huge arms from applying the choke if they had you broken down? Three Points. 1. Don't end up in that position. 2. If you're attempting the submission (instead of taking the advantage to the back), if/when it doesn't work than you'll still be stuck on the bottom. 3. Defense is the same as the arm triangle defense from side control. Make a fist with the arm being attacked, and put your other hand on top of it. Instead of doing the side control escape (drive your elbow into his neck until you can escape it to the mat), do the same type of escape but from top position. Crush his neck with your shoulder and/or elbow. Use your superior leverage to force him into a position where the blood can still get to your brain, and wait until his arms burn out. Use your superior technique to advance positions and escape from the guard. If none of this works, quit. If any of it works, choke the poo poo out of the bastard for trying to neck crank you.
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Jul 30, 2012 09:07
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Kumo Jr. posted:Could it work? I guess. Should it? Never. It's a basic arm triangle choke from guard - how have you not seen that in eight years of grappling?
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Jul 30, 2012 15:54
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When I was new to grappling a ninja tapped me while I was mounted on him.
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Jul 30, 2012 20:18
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Omglosser posted:When I was new to grappling a ninja tapped me while I was mounted on him. what, with a pressure point?
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Jul 30, 2012 20:22
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origami posted:It's a basic arm triangle choke from guard - how have you not seen that in eight years of grappling? I don't know. I've seen it down a zillion times from top position, but I've never seen anyone try it from guard. I just don't think it would work. The guy being attacked has superior leverage... it just seems to me that the guard isn't enough to overwhelm an opponent into submission. He should be able to posture up out of the attack in a hundred different ways. If it did work, than you should see it all the time in MMA fights. When is the last time you saw a guy even attempt that attack in the UFC? I saw that someone said Liddell vs. Horn, but I don't remember that happening. If it did happen it was a combination of Horn's experience and Liddell's surprise that he even tried it. Kumo Jr. fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Jul 30, 2012 |
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Jul 30, 2012 20:28
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Kumo Jr. posted:I don't know. I've seen it down a zillion times from top position, but I've never seen anyone try it from guard. I just don't think it would work. The guy being attacked has superior leverage... it just seems to me that the guard isn't enough to overwhelm an opponent into submission. He should be able to posture up out of the attack in a hundred different ways. I first learned it from the guard - in fact I think it was one of the very first chokes I ever learned. For straight grappling it is not particularly useful - rarely do grapplers overextend one arm across center line in a way that allows you to land it - but in no-gi sparring when strikes are allowed, it is much more useful. And a guy throwing punches, who gets caught in the arm triangle, can't just posture up, especially if you bring your (locked) ankles higher on his back, so that your weight is really pulling down on his upper torso. It's not hard to prevent someone from posturing out of it. quote:If it did work, than you should see it all the time in MMA fights. When is the last time you saw a guy even attempt that attack in the UFC? I saw that someone said Liddell vs. Horn, but I don't remember that happening. If it did happen it was a combination of Horn's experience and Liddell's surprise that he even tried it. It's like any other submission - if your opponent wriggles out or postures up or tries to defend, you just switch to the next move or position. If it works, it works, if it doesn't, at least it sets you up for a sweep or the back. You won't see it a lot in UFC fights because experienced fighters do not throw wild punches while in someone's guard, which is precisely the type of attack that the arm triangle counters.
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Jul 30, 2012 20:34
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entris posted:what, with a pressure point? Smoke bomb to the eyes I bet.
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Jul 30, 2012 20:42
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Omglosser posted:When I was new to grappling a ninja tapped me while I was mounted on him. did he grab your balls? I had a dude, no joke, tell me he could escape mount by grabbing my nuts. I told him he could if he wanted but if he did that I would elbow him in his face. He did not use that escape that day. He would come to the college rec, talk poo poo about the local bjj school then only train with dudes who were fresh to grappling. He never bothered me again after our "ball attack chat". Before I left, he tried to escape an armbar by attacking pressure points on a guy's feet. It made the dude jump, like if you get shocked, but he still had the arm and ended up hyper extending the elbow. So, the idiot almost broke his own arm doing ninja moves.
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Jul 30, 2012 21:20
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I knew an instructor who was an FBI agent. He relayed the story that they had some ninjitsu folks come into his bjj group for some sparring, and he thought the pressure points were "just the nicest massage you can imagine."
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Jul 30, 2012 21:27
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You jerks are just asking to be hit with a Dim-Mak. The only way to defend against pressure points is a psychic knock-out.
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Jul 30, 2012 21:48
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There's nothing wrong with that arm triangle from guard, except that you could be doing better attacks if you got the same opportunity. Once that arm slips across there is a spiralling infinity of triangles and armbars available which all lead into each other like an omni-dimensional ouroboros. Suddenly all submissions in all universes become visible, and your grappling gym turns into the white bedroom from the end of 2001: a space odyssey. You feel yourself ascending through a corridor of light and colour and somehow, somewhere, somebody taps.
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Jul 30, 2012 23:17
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"Forget that Eddie Bravo stuff about stoned grappling, we're gonna take this to the next level! Now put this on your tongue and go get your gi." 
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Jul 31, 2012 00:30
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Xguard86 posted:did he grab your balls? I had a dude, no joke, tell me he could escape mount by grabbing my nuts. I told him he could if he wanted but if he did that I would elbow him in his face. He did not use that escape that day. That's loving hilarious. The ninja that got me was an instructor, he was a legit martial artist imo but had a weird spiritual philosophy and was very cerebral. But he tapped me with I guess a legit choke, I don't know what its called, but he had his left forearm across the back of my neck, right forearm across my throat grabbing his left bicep.
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Jul 31, 2012 03:29
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Omglosser posted:That's loving hilarious. This sounds like some weird no-gi Ezekiel choke. Edit: Did you actually have trouble breathing/start blacking out or did you just tap because of the pain of somebody leaning their body weight onto your trachea? Smegmatron fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Jul 31, 2012 |
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Jul 31, 2012 03:47
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I think I ran into the Muay Thai version of Eric Kelly. I already train BJJ but I wanted to take up a striking martial art so I went to this nearby gym that offers Muay Thai Kickboxing to check it out. I get to the gym right as class starts and the coach has the people doing some warm up in a ring where they're kicking the ropes or some poo poo. I go up to the coach to introduce myself but he's talking to someone so I just stand there and wait. He finishes talking and says "What do you want?" I tell him I just want some general information like if I need any gear to start up with and stuff and he says "So you're just gonna come ask me this while class is going on? Get the gently caress out of my face." I started laughing cause I didn't expect him to say some poo poo like that and wasn't sure if he was serious or what. He then tells me he'll speak to me in a few minutes so I go wait on the benches. A few minutes pass and he goes "Hey rear end in a top hat, what did you want?" I tell ask him some more questions and then he says something like "I don't give a poo poo about you or any of these people. I'm not getting paid for this, I'm just coaching this for my friend that owns the gym because I love the sport and our Thai teacher went back to Asia. If you want to do this, show up on Monday and if you're still showing up after 3 weeks I'll tell you what to buy." I wasn't going to join until school started later in August anyway but hopefully by then they have a real coach cause this gym is very close and pretty cheap. What do you all think?
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Jul 31, 2012 03:56
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Stick around for the humorous stories that will result.
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Jul 31, 2012 03:57
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Sounds like a lovely place with an awful instructor and you'll probably be wasting your time there. SoNovum posted:Stick around for the humorous stories that will result.
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Jul 31, 2012 04:14
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Smegmatron posted:This sounds like some weird no-gi Ezekiel choke. I was mounted on him. My head was pinned near his and I had no idea what to do. Besides I can't remember that well...it seems I was struggling to get free and I had nothing in my arsenal to get out and breathing got increasingly difficult so I tapped. edit: Yeah I'm fairly certain it was an Ezekiel choke or a slight variant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj-wPdtBTjk It was like this, except he locked the choke in on me while I was mounted on him. I just think it's funny cuz poo poo how the gently caress do you lose from mount? Omglosser fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Jul 31, 2012 |
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Jul 31, 2012 04:31
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He might end up being very talented, but having no time for beginners or bullshit. It's not everyone's ideal style of coach, but I think it'd be more pertinent to judge him on his abilities than the initial impression of his persona. It's weird, but one of the best grapplers at my gym has a similar technique. He says that he discovered it by accident, with everyone telling him it was useless, but he's managed to transform it into an extremely effective technique. It's like an ezekiel but he really uses the blade of his elbow to paper-cutter choke into the side of the opponents neck. He does it by S-gripping his hands around the neck and crown of the head. He likes to throw it on when you're in his side control (he's on the bottom), because at the very least you have to react to it and that gives him an opportunity to create space.
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Jul 31, 2012 05:26
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^ That's innovation. I like moves like that because they kind of betray the feeling of safety a grappler can get in dominate positions like that. They're expecting you to shrimp or whatever and suddenly they have to defend a choke. As for your first point I agree - who better to critique your techniques than someone who doesn't give a gently caress about your feelings? (If they are good that is)
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Jul 31, 2012 05:39
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Omglosser posted:As for your first point I agree - who better to critique your techniques than someone who doesn't give a gently caress about your feelings? (If they are good that is) But then you have the problem of supporting a business or organisation that allows that sort of rude nonsense. I wouldn't exactly send my kids to that place.
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Jul 31, 2012 08:03
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Xguard86 posted:Before I left, he tried to escape an armbar by attacking pressure points on a guy's feet. It made the dude jump, like if you get shocked, but he still had the arm and ended up hyper extending the elbow. So, the idiot almost broke his own arm doing ninja moves.
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Jul 31, 2012 09:11
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Hey, tickling is a legitimate attack. I've sunk in TWO rear naked chokes by tickling someone's ribs until defending their neck didn't seem quite so important anymore.
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Jul 31, 2012 09:55
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Green belt in Judo 
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Jul 31, 2012 11:39
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Nierbo posted:Green belt in Judo Congrats  green was my favorite promote because yellow and orange look noob!
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Jul 31, 2012 13:17
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| # ? May 16, 2024 11:19 |
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So, zoo-jitsu or Capoeira?  Edit: who am I kidding? It's probably goat-style kung-fu. Nektu fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Jul 31, 2012 |
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Jul 31, 2012 13:32
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