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Kaboom Dragoon posted:So was I the only person playing who actually got the intended meaning of that line? I think the Materia linking is the best concept in the franchise. Combine one color with a different color and you just made yourself much stronger or resistant early on.
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May 29, 2011 18:54
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Axle_Stukov posted:Oh here we go! Pretty much. If it had just been another FF and never got so much attention it probably wouldn't have gotten so much backlash either. However because of its attention it also paved the way for RPGs to finally get noticed by a more mainstream audience. It never needed a sequel or movie, though. I don't think a remake would be any good, either. I LPed this game myself a couple years ago but did it on the Penny Arcade forum as I wasn't brave enough to put it here. I kinda regret not doing so because it seems like no one ever finishes one here, and a lot of people need to give this game another look to remind them of what it was actually like without the fanbase or compilation stuff tainting their memories. So I'm glad to see it being done by someone who likes the game, as it's a little old just reading about people tearing it apart or people erroneously calling Cloud 'emo' and whatnot. I hope you finish it, Elentor. Good luck.
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May 29, 2011 18:55
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Adus posted:Pretty much. If it had just been another FF and never got so much attention it probably wouldn't have gotten so much backlash either. However because of its attention it also paved the way for RPGs to finally get noticed by a more mainstream audience. It never needed a sequel or movie, though. I don't think a remake would be any good, either. My biggest problem with it is that the gameplay is lacking. Materia was a good idea in theory but not in practice.
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May 29, 2011 19:01
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I've played this game alot, both the PC and PSX versions....but I never managed to finish it. I was all the way on the very final boss and about to beat him...then fell asleep and never worked up the guts to play through the entirety of the final area again. It's great to see it finally LPed here, although you could've put in a slight bit of viewer participation with the character names at least.
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May 29, 2011 19:08
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Elentor posted:You can't get ALL of them, but enough to break the game until you can. You might not be able to get all of a character's Limit Breaks right away (with a few exceptions depending on how you do it), but you can get all but their last limit from the instant you acquire them. It doesn't take that long to do either. Heck, in some cases you don't even need that last one to use them to their fullest.
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May 29, 2011 20:30
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Elentor posted:
I dunno, maybe it's one of those nerd bars. they serve a her  majestyAnd yeah, FF7 itself was a pretty good and fun game (I looooooooove seeing the stars fill up in the Materia screen, but then, as always, I am quite a simpleton), but everything in the "FF7 series" is poo poo that has retroactively ruined a lot of the original game's charm. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 20:40 on May 29, 2011 |
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May 29, 2011 20:37
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The White Dragon posted:I dunno, maybe it's one of those nerd bars. they serve a her They especially ruined the game's ending, but I suppose it's far too early to be talking about that point.
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May 29, 2011 20:56
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Elentor posted:Yeah, the idea of the script is "(If you) Attack while itss tail's up, it's gonna counter-attack." Scalding Coffee posted:It mentioning about counter-attacking was enough. How else would it counter if you don't do anything? It probably ruined the game for the same people who couldn't beat a floating barrel. Yeah. I remember my brother never got past the first boss due to that, because he was actually paying attention to what the game was telling him and he immediately got frustrated dieing to the boss repeatedly and considered this game a waste of a purchase. So he did let me play for a bit (had never heard of Final Fantasy before either) and I managed to beat the boss because I was still too confused by making characters attack through menus to notice that the boss somehow just said something. It gets obvious if you ignore the text. So, after having beaten that part for him I didn't get to play much afterwards until he had progressed well into the game. If anything, you can applaud it for its sheer size that not many games could contest at the time. It's a good opening in some regards, but I would consider it a bit of a road block for people that aren't used to jrpgs. At least we were at a loss at first. This game has a hilariously confusing translation. Espacially in regards to some game mechanics. I think I didn't understand blue materia until the second time playing through the game.
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May 29, 2011 21:11
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Space-Bird posted:I still think FF7 was a good game, and one of the better Final Fantasy games in the line up, though it becomes hard to defend with the spinoffs and legions of scary fans. I've always wondered why Square chose to shift from Amano's art to Nomura's in FF7. Is there more of a story behind it than Square wanting to shake things up? Frankly, Amano's character design looks pretty weird once you put it into 3D, even more so than Nomura's. In the age of sprites, no one cared that Cecil from FFIV wears lipstick. In the DS version, this is painfully, painfully obvious.
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May 29, 2011 21:15
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Definitely echoing the "best part about FFVII was Midgar!" feelings. Maybe, some day, we'll get a dystopic jRPG entirely set in a massive, world-destroying metropolis. Maybe.
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May 29, 2011 21:32
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Scalding Coffee posted:It mentioning about counter-attacking was enough. How else would it counter if you don't do anything? It probably ruined the game for the same people who couldn't beat a floating barrel. I think there should be a Godwin's Law about that barrel. With every post in a discussion about a puzzle of confusing or unclear nature the chances of mentioning Sonic 3 quickly approach 100%. Adus posted:Pretty much. If it had just been another FF and never got so much attention it probably wouldn't have gotten so much backlash either. However because of its attention it also paved the way for RPGs to finally get noticed by a more mainstream audience. It never needed a sequel or movie, though. I don't think a remake would be any good, either. I'm so glad that that "emo" fad is gone. But part of that is how the image of Cloud got distorted over time. At least before certain events he's a no-bullshit kind of person in FF7, and that is very entertaining. Bellmaker posted:My biggest problem with it is that the gameplay is lacking. Materia was a good idea in theory but not in practice. I think Materia is great in practice, but the game doesn't offer enough for you to explore what you can do. This was one of the prime motivations behind FF7 modding, but I'll talk about this later. Compare it to FF10 for example, a game that gives you the option to explore its system to the fullest with a lot of optional bosses that actually assume you've mastered the game. Zeron posted:It's great to see it finally LPed here, although you could've put in a slight bit of viewer participation with the character names at least. I'll include viewer participation just not with the names. Not with the names. The White Dragon posted:I dunno, maybe it's one of those nerd bars. they serve a her Whenever I think about upper Midgar I think about how cool a MMO in it would be. Then I remember MMOs are not cool  Anyway, Chapter 2 coming sooner than later.
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May 29, 2011 21:48
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Azure_Horizon posted:Definitely echoing the "best part about FFVII was Midgar!" feelings. Resonance of Fate fits some of those requirements. The fact that it's also a really fun game doesn't hurt it much either.
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May 29, 2011 22:06
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Kaboom Dragoon posted:Resonance of Fate fits some of those requirements. The fact that it's also a really fun game doesn't hurt it much either. This is true, but I'm kind of turned off by the artstyle, the repetitive battle system, and some of the game's really, REALLY ridiculous moments. It's a good attempt, though.
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May 29, 2011 22:17
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Elentor posted:I'm so glad that that "emo" fad is gone. But part of that is how the image of Cloud got distorted over time. At least before certain events he's a no-bullshit kind of person in FF7, and that is very entertaining. Well, Cloud does act emo in FF7. But only briefly. It's all the other things in the compilation that make him all emo all the time. The only part of the compilation that I've played/seen that actually had him act like he did originally was Crisis Core, which is part of the reason why I still liked it despite the fact that it was partially corrupted by Square-Enix's raging Gackt-boner.
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May 29, 2011 22:30
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Azure_Horizon posted:This is true, but I'm kind of turned off by the artstyle, the repetitive battle system, and some of the game's really, REALLY ridiculous moments. I can understand, a large part of the beginning is basically 'charge forward firing like a maniac' until you unlock more weapon options. I haven't seen anything too painful so far though. Truth be told, I've found it fairly funny, all things considered. Dauntasa posted:I still liked it despite the fact that it was partially corrupted by Square-Enix's raging Gackt-boner. Personal experience: most of the serious FF7 fans I've known over the years also have a scary love of J-pop/rock. I'm talking about a good 70%+ of them. So putting Gackt into the series turns out to be a complete no-brainer.
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May 29, 2011 22:37
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Kaboom Dragoon posted:Personal experience: most of the serious FF7 fans I've known over the years also have a scary love of J-pop/rock. I'm talking about a good 70%+ of them. So putting Gackt into the series turns out to be a complete no-brainer. There's nothing wrong with a little J-pop/rock here and there. But taking your favorite guy and inserting him into the canon of your story is on the level of bad fanfiction. I wouldn't have minded a bit more J-pop/rock on the soundtrack(well, not too much), but putting it into the story is ridiculous.
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May 29, 2011 22:52
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I think the localization teams around the world were on drugs when they worked on this game, the German translation had letters and symbols that didn't even exist in that language! I didn't really understand what the hell was going on until a while later when I read more about it on the internet. Still probably my favorite gaming experience though. I remember reading about it in magazines and it just looked SO HUGE, and then this trailer came out and I about lost my godamned mind. (WARNING I guess, the trailer has scenes from almost the entire game, but they're all so out of context that you can't really tell anything from them). Many parts of the game feel like chores, but there are still a lot of great moments after MIdgar, and the music is fantastic. Anyway, hooray for nostalgia!
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May 29, 2011 22:57
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Dauntasa posted:Well, Cloud does act emo in FF7. But only briefly. It's all the other things in the compilation that make him all emo all the time. The only part of the compilation that I've played/seen that actually had him act like he did originally was Crisis Core, which is part of the reason why I still liked it despite the fact that it was partially corrupted by Square-Enix's raging Gackt-boner. It's been years, but I remember Cloud's progression in the game feeling very natural and organic, given the situation. To me, calling it "emo" is like saying a kid who snaps and kicks a bully's rear end is having an "emo" moment while ignoring what leads up to it and how it justifies the behavior as a normal, expected reaction.
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May 29, 2011 23:04
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Dauntasa posted:There's nothing wrong with a little J-pop/rock here and there. But taking your favorite guy and inserting him into the canon of your story is on the level of bad fanfiction. I wouldn't have minded a bit more J-pop/rock on the soundtrack(well, not too much), but putting it into the story is ridiculous. Pretty much everything wrong with Advent Children, Crisis Core and Dirge of Cerberus can be laid directly at the feet of Square wanting to pander to the fans. But that's an argument for another time, and I don't want to derail this thread any further than it's gone. Totally with you on the first part though. I'll listen to anything, regardless of it's origin if it grabs me. RyuujinBlueZ posted:It's been years, but I remember Cloud's progression in the game feeling very natural and organic, given the situation. Problem is, all people seem to remember is Cloud being a surly rear end for much of the story. They seem to forget the part where he actually grew some characterisation after a while. Which ties in directly with the points I made above, funnily enough.
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May 29, 2011 23:12
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Precisely. The reason they made Cloud all quiet and sad in AC is because they thought that was the Cloud people would remember the best. It makes no sense because he rarely acts that way in the game.
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May 29, 2011 23:58
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Final Fantasy 7 was the first Playstation game I ever played, and boy did I play the poo poo out of it. I think I've got 2 or 3 level 99 files, and a whole bunch of other runs. Havebn't played it in a while though, so I'll enjoy watching this LP. Anyway, can we not talk about the subsequent ruining of this game, and just pretend that we're in an alternate universe where Square is run by people who care more about the integrity of their games than they do about money?
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May 30, 2011 00:01
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Adus posted:Precisely. The reason they made Cloud all quiet and sad in AC is because they thought that was the Cloud people would remember the best. It makes no sense because he rarely acts that way in the game. But he's not all quiet and sad for very long. He's a jerk for much longer.
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May 30, 2011 00:03
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Cloud is a jerk, but it's the good kind of jerk. I mean Squall is a jerk too, but he's completely unlikeable, whereas Cloud is pretty much a loveable character the whole way through. Adus, I love how you're always the first to yell at people calling Cloud emo. Don't ever think no one notices. 
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May 30, 2011 00:09
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The walk through Cloud's mind in the middle of FF7 made it look like he had been depressed and sad and insecure for a long time. He just wasn't comfortable sharing his thoughts. That's probably where AC gets that from.
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May 30, 2011 00:10
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AndwhatIseeisme posted:Final Fantasy 7 was the first Playstation game I ever played, and boy did I play the poo poo out of it. I think I've got 2 or 3 level 99 files, and a whole bunch of other runs. Havebn't played it in a while though, so I'll enjoy watching this LP. I am all for this idea, and also look forward to a game I've made little progress in.
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May 30, 2011 00:15
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AndwhatIseeisme posted:Final Fantasy 7 was the first Playstation game I ever played, and boy did I play the poo poo out of it. I think I've got 2 or 3 level 99 files, and a whole bunch of other runs. Haven't played it in a while though, so I'll enjoy watching this LP. This was one of the first two PSX games I ever bought. I got home at 3pm and sat and played this until 5am. Went to bed, woke up at half twelve, straight back playing. First jRPG I ever owned - this game is probably responsible for companies starting to import most jRPGs to the EU, after they saw that they could sell. I have tried going back to it, but I can never make it past the first few screens though - I just can't get into it. Looking forward to reliving it through this LP instead. Kloro fucked around with this message at 00:23 on May 30, 2011 |
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May 30, 2011 00:20
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eating only apples posted:Cloud is a jerk, but it's the good kind of jerk. I mean Squall is a jerk too, but he's completely unlikeable, whereas Cloud is pretty much a loveable character the whole way through. At this rate maybe I should just knock on individual doors while carrying pamphlets. "Are you aware of Cloud from FFVII? You see he's not really emo..."
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May 30, 2011 00:23
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Super Ninja Fish posted:midgame spoiler You are aware that there is a no spoiler rule in effect, yes? Might want to edit that out.
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May 30, 2011 00:26
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I guess I'm gonna be a naysayer here and say that I think FFVII kind of sucked. It had some good ideas executed poorly and a lot of bad ideas, the translation was terrible, the story had just enough direction to disappoint me when it was barely followed through and main character and villain were both completely unlikable. We're talking about Cloud right now so I'll focus on that - he IS a good character. I like his development. He's a miserable protoganist, though and I find him hard to identify with. That matters more to some people than others, of course, and JRPG's are enough like books that it kind of confuses the issue even for me. But even given that he's a good character, there are better and more entertaining ones in this story who's only crime is not being fleshed out enough.
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May 30, 2011 00:28
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Blastinus posted:You are aware that there is a no spoiler rule in effect, yes? Might want to edit that out. The last 20 posts are saying that Cloud wasn't depressed and sad and the sequels made it up. I'm just saying the opposite. I don't see how that's any more of a spoiler than the other posts.
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May 30, 2011 00:34
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Super Ninja Fish posted:I don't see how that's any more of a spoiler than the other posts. You explicitly mentioned an event that doesn't occur until at least halfway through the second disc. It's not something most people know about even if they haven't played the game, unlike some other things, and it's kind of a surprise when you are playing it yourself. That's wee bit more of a spoiler than "Cloud isn't sad" when you can see that pretty easily in the first update.
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May 30, 2011 00:36
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Super Ninja Fish posted:The last 20 posts are saying that Cloud wasn't depressed and sad and the sequels made it up. Not true. He was. It just wasn't his only character trait and it didn't show up all the time. In the sequels, it is/does.
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May 30, 2011 01:18
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Dauntasa posted:There's nothing wrong with a little J-pop/rock here and there. But taking your favorite guy and inserting him into the canon of your story is on the level of bad fanfiction. I wouldn't have minded a bit more J-pop/rock on the soundtrack(well, not too much), but putting it into the story is ridiculous. I always thought it was attempts to appease Gackt after they pretty much designed Squall after him - there were bootleg models in the 90s that just said "GACKT" with the gunblade and everything, you can still find them at nerd shops over here. Hell, Edea looks like a ripoff of another member of his old band, too. When Gackt actually showed up in one of the games I just assumed it was due to a lawsuit threat. Squall. Now THERE was an "emo" character. I'm on disc 2 of the Japanese FFVII now and Cloud's been a pretty chill dude. I remember being "meh" on him in the translation but he never really seemed depressed to me?
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May 30, 2011 02:53
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eating only apples posted:Cloud is a jerk, but it's the good kind of jerk. I mean Squall is a jerk too, but he's completely unlikeable, whereas Cloud is pretty much a loveable character the whole way through. Oddly enough, Kingdom Hearts II captured that best for me. During the bigass Heartless invasion when Cloud and Leon are fighting back to back, and Cloud implies that Squall is a bitch who won't do anything while he does all the work. Just a loveable kind of dick comment from Cloud, with Squall looking like the little brother wanting to be cool like his big bro.
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May 30, 2011 03:57
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Oh, this game. I love this game. But I hate everything about it. I hate what it's done to gaming and to JRPGs. I hate what it does to people. I hate how 99% of the people who love it seem to love it for stupid reasons, and how 99% of the people who hate it seem to hate it for stupid reasons. And I super-special hate how Square Enix is handling it. But I love it, really. Proceed.
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May 30, 2011 04:06
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Fedule posted:I hate what it's done to gaming and to JRPGs. I hate what it does to people. I hate how 99% of the people who love it seem to love it for stupid reasons, and how 99% of the people who hate it seem to hate it for stupid reasons. And I super-special hate how Square Enix is handling it. So what you're saying isn't that you hate the game, you just hate the people who play it, and the people who managed the lore and later marketing. And simplifying that, that you hate people. It's okay. I think we all do.
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May 30, 2011 04:25
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The White Dragon posted:So what you're saying isn't that you hate the game, you just hate the people who play it, and the people who managed the lore and later marketing. And simplifying that, that you hate people. Nothing like people to ruin a good thing.
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May 30, 2011 04:48
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Fedule posted:Nothing like people to ruin a good thing. Let's be fair here. There's enough bad stuff in Final Fantasy VII that it undermines itself, anyway. But we'll be seeing that sooner or later in the LP.
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May 30, 2011 04:58
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Whoa. FF7 LP outta nowhere. Go, go, go!! Hype aside, aversion aside, astronomical expectations aside, fan bullshit aside. I enjoy the Final Fantasy series, and I've enjoyed every game in the series--some more than others, but each one has been disposable income and leisure time well spent. They're not the best games ever (a pointless qualification, anyway), and they no longer are breaking a ton of new ground, but they're consistently pretty fun. If the stories are a bit silly, at least the set pieces are always worth the trouble of admiring. I'll be following this. It's a nice second course after White Dragon's FF9 run. So. I have a serious question to ask: Why, after 15 years, does Tifa Lockhart still generate metric tons of salacious fan art?  
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May 30, 2011 05:01
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It's bizarre that they'd make a film about it, and do spin-offs, and include Cloud in every cross over they can, but they won't remake it.
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