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Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.
So I went and got myself a tin whistle, because it looked easy to learn and the instrument shop close to me actually had one. It's a Clarke, apparently.

Now, how would I best go about actually learning to play it? It came with a grip chart, but nothing else. Not that it would have helped, because I have literally never played an instrument before and can't read notes. Any recommendations, maybe some simple sheets and instructions on how to read them?

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Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

For diatonics, I'd take a hard look at the Hohner Erica, or if one row will do you the HA-112. The dude at Irish Dancemaster and I have talked shop on and off, and he's just not a fan of the HA-112 for various technical reasons, but as a casual player I simply loved it. Very lightweight and trim instruments, and they look awesome.

If you get a an HA-112, eBay is probably your best bet. I would be not at all shy to ask the seller if you can hear it played over the phone to see how the tuning is, as getting an HA-112. Getting a complete and total re-reed would be $300ish, tuning a few reeds might be affordable though. Usually I find HA-112s by searching "hohner -piano" (if I'm willing to look through a few pages) or "hohner (button*, cajun) if I'm just perusing a few listings.

Yeah I definitely think a diatonic or concertina is what I will end up with. I have small hand and short arms and playing the few big accordions I've tried feels far too awkward for me. I really love the size of the little toy accordion. I'd rather have a comfortable playing experience and not be able to play absolutely every piece possible, than get something chromatic but bulky.

Besides I feel like something decidedly different from piano, and a diatonic button accordion or a concertina seems to fit the bill.

Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug
Also are there any reputable non-ebay sources for used squeezeboxes? I'm kind of sick of the whole ebay bidding game and would pay a bit more to buy from a trusted source.

Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

These are definitely a crapshoot buying blind; as mentioned earlier in the thread my preferred method is to find a store with 12 of them, play them all, and choose the best one.


In your case, your first priority is to crack this puppy open. There will be four round-head pins arrayed around the 7-button side: get a tool and pull them all out. The best tool for this is a small pincer, but you can use whatever works.

:words:

Finally got around to doing this. Changing to single reed made the melody buttons sound way cleaner. On the other side, the chord button sounds fine but the bass button is really out of tune. Any quick thing I can do to fix that?

Planet X
Dec 10, 2003

GOOD MORNING

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

I need to go hassle the banjo-playing goon who's supposed to drop into this thread, but I reckon I can cover this one.

Am I that goon? I started the banjo thread, so anyone that wants to learn about the banjo, hop on over. :v: You banjer pickers (or bluegrass players / fans) that haven't chimed in yet, holler!

I've looked through the thread here and see that the banjo has been mentioned a few times. I'd be more than happy to give advice on it. I've been playing consistently for 2 years. I got a little tired of the guitar and wanted to try something new. I've really taken to the banjo, and feel more compelled to practice it more than the guitar.

I played Brain Damage / Eclipse last night on the banjo at a picnic, and people got a big kick out of it! Sure some songs are a novelty when played on instruments far from what they were written on, but some songs work well.

Seconding the advice, of course, for the Deering Goodtime banjo. If you've got a guitar foundation already, banjo is easier, obviously. It's not impossible to learn, as you can find tab easily on the web, you dont have to learn to read music first.

Planet X fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Jul 8, 2011

Planet X
Dec 10, 2003

GOOD MORNING

TapTheForwardAssist posted:





Guy I jam with has one of these. Clear, rich, unique sound.

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

GrAviTy84 posted:

I'm contemplating using a current recording project I'm working on to justify buying a banjo. For reference I am a guitar player.

Thinking further on it, tenor banjo might be one of your better options:



Tenor banjos have four strings, generally a shorter neck than 5-strings, and can be tuned GDAE (like a mandolin or fiddle) CGDA (like a mandoa or viola) or DGBE (like the top 4 strings of a guitar).

In this last case, you'd have a tuning you're quite familiar with, and be able to apply "Scruggs-style guitar" techniques, rolling fingers and all, just as well as you would be able to on guitjo. The advantages would be better selection of tenors at better prices, better ergonomics, and though you'd be "missing" your E and A strings, those strings on the guitjo are a dead giveaway for "this is a banjo guitar, not a banjo" since banjos just don't have that low end the guitjo has. Several online shops have Deering Goodtime 17-fret tenors for $379 shipped, or you might be able to find a used one, or buy a reputable brand of used off eBay or the classifieds at the Banjo Hangout forum.

It'd be more versatile as well, since after this project you could always use it for Irish pub sessions by playing it with a flatpick, and in general they (especially the open-back versions) are lightier and handier than a guitjo. Not to hate on guitjo, but it kind of is a bastard novelty instrument.

Clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbSZA228ixk Irish tune Banish Misfortune played (albeit slowly) on Irish tenor banjo


quote:

Also are there any reputable non-ebay sources for used squeezeboxes? I'm kind of sick of the whole ebay bidding game and would pay a bit more to buy from a trusted source.

Hmm... Elderly gets some used buttonboxes, and the shop The Button Box in MA I think carries used, though I don't see them listed on their site. There's also Liberty Bellows in Philly. Aside from stores, you could also put a WTB ad at the classifieds pages for Chiff & Fipple, Melodeon Forum, and The Session.

Among models worth noting: both Weltmeister and Silvetta (both German) make pretty nice one-rows, arguably better than Hohner, and can occasionally be found at quite reasonable prices. Though I'm having trouble finding Silvettas online at the moment, except for Sam Ash selling their 3-rows for $499; they are supposed to be very light and compact though.

I was thinking for you, that if your hands are okay with the back and forth of diatonic (the bellows on the toy are rather stiff, so if those don't flare up your hands, a good used accordion will be even better), and weight/size is a premium, the HA-112 is really worth looking at. They're very light, and if the key of G suits you (either because it fits the French genres you like, or if key is less vital to you) those do tend to sell for the least since Cajuns want C (though its not a proper Cajun accordion) and Irish players jump all over the Ds.

quote:

Finally got around to doing this. Changing to single reed made the melody buttons sound way cleaner. On the other side, the chord button sounds fine but the bass button is really out of tune. Any quick thing I can do to fix that?

Depends how much dicking you want to do. You can, at risk of ruining the reed (no huge loss) either sandpaper/file the end a little bit to raise the pitch, or put a blob of superglue on the tip to lower the pitch. Though Irish Dancemaster mentioned in an email to me today that there's really only so much you can do with the reeds, as they're not as predictable/mod-able as real accordion reeds. Personally, I don't really use the basses for the styles I play, so I mainly just focus on getting the 7-side right, and single-reeding is the single biggest improvement there.

I still wouldn't discount concertina, particularly since size is one of your issues. If you're ever in the area of any folk shop, go by a festival, or can find someone on Concertina Forum who lives close enough to you to let you try one, you might find that interesting.

One really off-the-wall option: both Stagi and Paolo Soprani (and maybe others) made the "organetto abruzzese":



It's a 1.5 row, 4-bass diatonic accordion in a concertina body. Italian dance instrument, and there was last year one French musician who dropped in who had one and loved it. You'd really have to ask on Concertina Forum where you'd go about finding one, but it's an interesting compromise between buttonbox layout and concertina size.

quote:

Now, how would I best go about actually learning to play [tinwhistle]? It came with a grip chart, but nothing else. Not that it would have helped, because I have literally never played an instrument before and can't read notes. Any recommendations, maybe some simple sheets and instructions on how to read them?

I was hoping Mrady might drop be, since he/she is the resident expert. Failing that, I can give some very basics here, and a more general advice to just google "tinwhistle tutorial" or "pennywhistle tutorial" and scope through the plentiful free instruction online. Not to shrug the work of guessing which ones are good onto you, but I doubt there are many terrible ones, especially at the noob level, so it's just a matter of finding one you like. This one is free and looks pretty solid for basic scale: http://www.whistletutor.com

Quick semi-important thing: is your Clarke in C or D? It should be marked as a small letter on the front of the body. If it's C, just note that most instruction will be in D, so you can still apply all the same fingerings and whatnot, you just won't be playing exactly the same notes as the video. Oh, and is your Clarke a "Sweetone", a "Meg" or the old-school black one where the head is part of the metal body and kind of squarish? They're all good, just curious.

So far as learning to read music, a huge number of tinwhistle players (and probably a lot of Irish musicians in general) can't read music, so I wouldn't sweat it at all. If you feel like learning it later, that's fine, but don't feel even slightly obliged to learn music. There are many online video clips of someone playing slowly with the camera focused on their fingers, so you can play along. Almost every fingering a beginner uses is just raising each finger in succession, so it's not like you even have a mix of closed and open, it's just a matter of which hole is the lowest closed one. The only exception that matters much to a noob is C, which is fingered oxxooo, so there's literally only one fingering that's any more complicated than xxxxoo or xxoooo. At any rate, learning by ear is far, far, far more useful for traditional music than learning to read "the dots", as written music is often disparagingly called by trad musicians.

I would watch some videos on basic scales and such, and then find some tutorials on YouTube or wherever of people very slowly playing easy songs (like Amazing Grace, here).


Before you start on that though, I would spend a day or two just doing breathing and some basic scales. Getting breath pressure right is fundamental (and not terribly hard) and will minimise the sounds-like-rear end shrieking. Stick the whistle in your mouth, cover all the holes fully (not pressing hard, just covering completely) and blow as softly as you can, so softly you just hear air flow through. Then increase your breath pressure until you get your lowest note, and hold it for several seconds. Keep doing that a bit until you can reliably hold a steady note and do it repeatably. Then do some scales, start doing basic video lessons. The main thing you want to avoid is just blasting air into it and shrieking, so better to underblow than overblow.

Keep the whistle sitting handy to wherever you are in your place, and just pick it up every so often throughout the day. If you play even just five minutes a half-dozen times during the day, you'll make huge progress in your first week. Like most everything in this thread, 10min a day for a week is way better than an hour only once a week. Just pick it up whenever the slightest mood strikes you, set it down once it's not fun, and pick it up again an hour or two later.

I would also sign up for and introduce yourself on the Chiff & Fipple forum, maybe tell them what kind of music you're interested in, ask for tips and favourite training videos, etc. There's a wealth of info out there for free, it's a pretty hard instrument to go wrong with (except for overblowing it into a shriek), almost indestructible barring crushing, and 'whistlers are pretty friendly and helpful folks.



Again segueing, for anyone here learning tinwhistle: it is totally cool to just stick with tinwhistle, but if you get pretty decent tinwhistle chops and branch out, your skills and repertoire will cross over very neatly to Irish uilleann pipes and to Irish flute, so if those appeal to you, and you become a decent 'whistle player (which can happy awfully fast), bear in mind the leg-up you have. For Irish flute in particular, fingering is basically identical. The upside of Irish flute is that you get a lovely range far lower than tinwhistle, and much more control of tone; if a tinwhistle is an automatic transmission, an Irish flute is a stick-shift. Uillean takes a bit more transition, since you're dealing with reeds and have to learn how to use bag and bellows, but tinwhistle crosses over enough in fingering skills that it's basically a pratice instrument for the uilleann.



(as discussed on page 1 or so, student uilleanns with chanter only run mid $300s for a self-assemble kit, or $500 for fully assembled)

HELP, MY ARM--
Oct 12, 2006
Oh, accept the pain, Frank!
Reading this thread has been awesome and I learned a ton, like I really really want a Hang. However, because I don't have 500-2000 to drop on one, I've looked elsewhere to fulfill my musical needs.

I'm ogling the Chinese Flute(dizi): http://www.eason.com.sg/products/dizi/dxh%28d%29.jsp

Can anyone tell me more about this instrument; difficulty, upkeep, etc?

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

HELP, MY ARM-- posted:

Reading this thread has been awesome and I learned a ton, like I really really want a Hang. However, because I don't have 500-2000 to drop on one, I've looked elsewhere to fulfill my musical needs.

Did you see the HAPI drum a few pages back? They're similar but $300ish. Clip.



quote:

I'm ogling the Chinese Flute(dizi): http://www.eason.com.sg/products/dizi/dxh%28d%29.jsp

Can anyone tell me more about this instrument; difficulty, upkeep, etc?



Looks to be pretty similar to any other bamboo flute, so fingering should be pretty easy, and embrochure is just a matter or working to learn the breath angles until you get it. So steeper learning curve than fipple flutes (tinwhistle, NAF), but nothing that people don't self-learn all the time.

So far as getting one: I'd ask at Flute Portal about who's a good quality seller/make. If you're into the Chinese thing, or find the dizi has a distinct tone you like more than other bamboo flutes, sure, get a dizi. However, if it either sounds pretty close to other bamboo flutes, or you don't have an interest in specifically Chinese stuff, you might want to just get a good American bamboo flute with six holes, so that all the fingerings for tinwhistle and the like will be the same, you can easily use tinwhistle online learning, etc.

I see Erik the Flutemaker mentioned a bunch on Chiff & Fipple and Flute Portal as a go-to guy for bamboo flutes. He makes a huge variety, most of which are quite affordable ($25-75). If you're not set on dizi/Chinese specifically, I'd go to either of those two forums and get a feel for whether Erik's flutes would suit you, and if so which model/key for the kind of music you want to play.

What kind of music do you plan to play?


EDIT: I looked into it, and the main distinctive thing about dizi (and the reason its proportions look odd) is that it has this extra hole for a vibrating membrane which affects the tone:



Personally, I didn't hear that difference really jump out at me in YouTube clips, though maybe I need to do some comparison listening. But if that feature appeals to you, find a good-quality dizi. Otherwise, regular bamboo flute with standard Western 6-hole fingering.


EDIT2: so far as upkeep, for bamboo same as for wood, you mainly want to swab it out after playing to get out your condensed spit, oil it up a few times a year, and don't store it assembled since that can compress the cork/wrap in the joints (depending on how your joints are made). Here's a little maintenance summary and you can find more by just googling "bamboo flute maintenance" or "wood flute maintenance".

TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Jul 8, 2011

HELP, MY ARM--
Oct 12, 2006
Oh, accept the pain, Frank!

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Did you see the HAPI drum a few pages back? They're similar but $300ish. Clip.






Looks to be pretty similar to any other bamboo flute, so fingering should be pretty easy, and embrochure is just a matter or working to learn the breath angles until you get it. So steeper learning curve than fipple flutes (tinwhistle, NAF), but nothing that people don't self-learn all the time.

So far as getting one: I'd ask at Flute Portal about who's a good quality seller/make. If you're into the Chinese thing, or find the dizi has a distinct tone you like more than other bamboo flutes, sure, get a dizi. However, if it either sounds pretty close to other bamboo flutes, or you don't have an interest in specifically Chinese stuff, you might want to just get a good American bamboo flute with six holes, so that all the fingerings for tinwhistle and the like will be the same, you can easily use tinwhistle online learning, etc.

I see Erik the Flutemaker mentioned a bunch on Chiff & Fipple and Flute Portal as a go-to guy for bamboo flutes. He makes a huge variety, most of which are quite affordable ($25-75). If you're not set on dizi/Chinese specifically, I'd go to either of those two forums and get a feel for whether Erik's flutes would suit you, and if so which model/key for the kind of music you want to play.

What kind of music do you plan to play?


EDIT: I looked into it, and the main distinctive thing about dizi (and the reason its proportions look odd) is that it has this extra hole for a vibrating membrane which affects the tone:



Personally, I didn't hear that difference really jump out at me in YouTube clips, though maybe I need to do some comparison listening. But if that feature appeals to you, find a good-quality dizi. Otherwise, regular bamboo flute with standard Western 6-hole fingering.


I did not expect to see a reply so soon. Thanks a bunch! I did not know bamboo flutes were such a huge thing in general; the link you posted to the flute maker is impressive. The sound differences between the dizi and the bamboo flutes posted in the site isn't something my novice ears can differentiate between, so having so many options is a great convenience.

I'm eying the Egyptian flute and love minor keys.

*the chinese thing comes from upbringing: I always associated bamboo flutes with chinese flutes

ALSO! I did check out the hapi :). It's a really cool substitute for the Hang, but I find the timbre too high for me.

MrGreenShirt
Mar 14, 2005

Hell of a book. It's about bunnies!

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

So far as learning to read music, a huge number of tinwhistle players (and probably a lot of Irish musicians in general) can't read music, so I wouldn't sweat it at all. If you feel like learning it later, that's fine, but don't feel even slightly obliged to learn music.

Oh thank god. I've gotten pretty good with following tablature notation in the practice book that came with my feadog whistle, but I've never been able to see standard musical notation as anything more than undecipherable dots on strings.

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Before you start on that though, I would spend a day or two just doing breathing and some basic scales. Getting breath pressure right is fundamental (and not terribly hard) and will minimise the sounds-like-rear end shrieking.

It took me a week or so, but I've gotten the hang of all the notes now up to A and B, (or XXOOOO and XOOOOO), in the upper D octave which sound like train whistles for some reason. Maybe I'm still not blowing hard enough.

So, can anyone recommend any cool Irish jigs for me to learn? I'm currently working on speeding up my fingering of "The Irish Washerwoman" and I'm hoping to challenge myself further.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Quick semi-important thing: is your Clarke in C or D? It should be marked as a small letter on the front of the body. If it's C, just note that most instruction will be in D, so you can still apply all the same fingerings and whatnot, you just won't be playing exactly the same notes as the video. Oh, and is your Clarke a "Sweetone", a "Meg" or the old-school black one where the head is part of the metal body and kind of squarish? They're all good, just curious.

It's a D-scale Sweetone. I made sure to check for that because someone mentioned that it was apparently the most popular kind to play. Should make finding tutorials a bit easier :)

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

So far as learning to read music, a huge number of tinwhistle players (and probably a lot of Irish musicians in general) can't read music, so I wouldn't sweat it at all. If you feel like learning it later, that's fine, but don't feel even slightly obliged to learn music. There are many online video clips of someone playing slowly with the camera focused on their fingers, so you can play along. Almost every fingering a beginner uses is just raising each finger in succession, so it's not like you even have a mix of closed and open, it's just a matter of which hole is the lowest closed one. The only exception that matters much to a noob is C, which is fingered oxxooo, so there's literally only one fingering that's any more complicated than xxxxoo or xxoooo. At any rate, learning by ear is far, far, far more useful for traditional music than learning to read "the dots", as written music is often disparagingly called by trad musicians.

I would watch some videos on basic scales and such, and then find some tutorials on YouTube or wherever of people very slowly playing easy songs (like Amazing Grace, here).

Before you start on that though, I would spend a day or two just doing breathing and some basic scales. Getting breath pressure right is fundamental (and not terribly hard) and will minimise the sounds-like-rear end shrieking. Stick the whistle in your mouth, cover all the holes fully (not pressing hard, just covering completely) and blow as softly as you can, so softly you just hear air flow through. Then increase your breath pressure until you get your lowest note, and hold it for several seconds. Keep doing that a bit until you can reliably hold a steady note and do it repeatably. Then do some scales, start doing basic video lessons. The main thing you want to avoid is just blasting air into it and shrieking, so better to underblow than overblow.

Keep the whistle sitting handy to wherever you are in your place, and just pick it up every so often throughout the day. If you play even just five minutes a half-dozen times during the day, you'll make huge progress in your first week. Like most everything in this thread, 10min a day for a week is way better than an hour only once a week. Just pick it up whenever the slightest mood strikes you, set it down once it's not fun, and pick it up again an hour or two later.

I would also sign up for and introduce yourself on the Chiff & Fipple forum, maybe tell them what kind of music you're interested in, ask for tips and favourite training videos, etc. There's a wealth of info out there for free, it's a pretty hard instrument to go wrong with (except for overblowing it into a shriek), almost indestructible barring crushing, and 'whistlers are pretty friendly and helpful folks.
Thank you, that looks like it will all be very helpful, especially the advice on actually getting a proper sound out of my flute. I'll make sure to check out the forum you recommended as well.

I'm afraid I won't be able to get much regular practice in before semester break, because I live in a dorm with fairly thin walls. It's good to know that I probably won't need to know notation, although I think I'll endeavour to learn it anyways. I might want to graduate to a different instrument once I get the hang of actually playing a blowing instrument; a relative of mine used to play semi-professionally and I'm fairly sure he still has his old concert flute around. I've always loved those things, but could never bring up the time or money for some proper instructions.

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

MrGreenShirt posted:

Oh thank god. I've gotten pretty good with following tablature notation in the practice book that came with my feadog whistle, but I've never been able to see standard musical notation as anything more than undecipherable dots on strings.

Sheet music is a crutch if you're playing trad. I see no problem with a solid ear-player learning dots, primarily so you can open up huge books of written music like O'Neill's Music of Ireland (1,850 tunes) and learn tunes that simply aren't available on recordings. But otherwise it's about always better to hear someone play it, as there are tons of trad nuances that just can't be captured in writing.

That's one thing (among many) I dislike about much of American public school music education: since it's classical and/or ensemble music, it teaches a slavish devotion to written notes; I'm always haranguing my teenage cousin for her utter refusal to try improvisation. Hell, the girl won't even transpose unless she has it written down first. On a related note, as a teenager doing Irish jamming with my friends, it drove me crazy that my girlfriend, trying to fiddle for us, could not drop all her silly classical habits like vibrato, and didn't seem to grasp how inappropriate her refusal to adapt her playing style was.

quote:

It took me a week or so, but I've gotten the hang of all the notes now up to A and B, (or XXOOOO and XOOOOO), in the upper D octave which sound like train whistles for some reason. Maybe I'm still not blowing hard enough.

Wait, you're playing XXOOOO on the first overblow? Instead, shift gears down to a lower fingering, but overblow one notch higher to jump a fifth and start from there at XXXXXX.

quote:

So, can anyone recommend any cool Irish jigs for me to learn? I'm currently working on speeding up my fingering of "The Irish Washerwoman" and I'm hoping to challenge myself further.

Swallowtail Jig.

Myself, I prefer slides and reels, and almost always the minor key ones. Do note, Irish tends to use the Dorian minor, so on a D whistle instead of playing in B Minor (the normal relative key to D), you play in E Dorian Minor. The normal Western Em would be playing up the scale from E, but playing the Cnat (oxxooo). On the E Dorian Minor, however, you leave the C#, so finger everything just as if you were playing in Dmaj, but your E (xxxxxo) is your keynote.

For any novice whistlers reading, if the above is Greek to you, don't sweat it in the slightest. You will eventually learn all this stuff by doing, even if you never learn the technical jargon to explain it, you will certainly hear/feel it just by playing it enough. Same for any other genre you learn.

In any event, for popular slides and reels that you're likely to hear at sessions, try learning Road to Lisdoonvarna (reel) and O'Keefe's Slide (really stiff playing, I just can't find a good whistle version). If you want something where you have to factor in a chromatic note (switching between C# and Cnat at different points in the tune), I like Banish Misfortune (also a jig).

Note in that last clip, a single melody instrument and bodhran go really well together. Just me personally, I'm not a fan of excessive harmonisation/chords in Irish. I don't care for guitars in sessions (unless they're flatpicking melodies or doing DADGAD or droning or something), just strumming away on chords. Bodhran with one fiddle or flute/whistle sounds great, and you can get the dark and driving sound that I love in Irish more than any other sound it has.



Given all the interest in tinwhistle so far, I'm surprised nobody's asked more about bodhran yet. It is a pretty awesome style of drum, and though its widespared role in Irish music is relatively recent (and huge amounts of its modern technique are modern virtuosic innovations), it seems to have become integral to aspects of the tradition. Though it still ticks me off to see it used in movies as though modern bodhran went all the way back to 1200 AD. The movie Braveheart is pretty much one long agonised groan for anyone into historiocity.

Anyway, bodhran can be pretty cool. The only problem is that random chumps assume it's got to be easy because, hey, it's just a drum, and then try to play along with sessions before they have any skills. Not to dissuade anyone from learning, just saying take it seriously and know when you're not ready for prime-time.

As an example, here's some serious bodhran skills:

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ChbigufBC8&feature=related John Joe Kelly

Bodhran also sounds great even just backing up singing with no other instruments:

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44IxVw7Qt4Q Kevin Conneff playing while singing



Again, as with everything above, if you're interested in bodhran, read up at Chiff & Fipple or The Session to figure out a good starter brand; don't just buy some tourist cheapie with a Guinness logo at your local Irish 'n' Scottish Stuff store.

I do note also that when I was a teenager almost all the bodhrans I saw had the crosspiece on the back, while these days it seems the ones with an open back and a thumbhole have become dominant for various reasons of developing playing styles. Interesting seeing the trend change to the "Kerry style" bodhran.

TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Jul 8, 2011

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

Cardiovorax posted:

It's a D-scale Sweetone. I made sure to check for that because someone mentioned that it was apparently the most popular kind to play. Should make finding tutorials a bit easier :)

drat glad you read that part of the thread. I always fear someone's going to get a C and get all mopey that they "wasted" $6. Honestly, I never really cared for Cs; D is classic, Bb is pretty cool and the lowest whistle that's still cheap, and I like both Low F and High F. Low F is just about as big as I can go and still use standard finger position (vice "piper's grip" for the really big 'whistles), and High F is high, but somehow not as shrieky as the High G one step above it.

quote:

Thank you, that looks like it will all be very helpful, especially the advice on actually getting a proper sound out of my flute. I'll make sure to check out the forum you recommended as well.

Yeah, breathing is the key. I wouldn't even try to do other stuff until you can breathe a smooth, pretty note. Then scales, then tunes.


quote:

I'm afraid I won't be able to get much regular practice in before semester break, because I live in a dorm with fairly thin walls.

It's like 80 degrees outside. Don't be all neckbeardy, go to the park and get some fresh air.


quote:

It's good to know that I probably won't need to know notation, although I think I'll endeavour to learn it anyways.

Never hurts, but I'd focus on getting good at playing first, rather than put the cart before the horse. Doesn't do much good to read if you can't competently play what you're reading.


quote:

I might want to graduate to a different instrument once I get the hang of actually playing a blowing instrument; a relative of mine used to play semi-professionally and I'm fairly sure he still has his old concert flute around. I've always loved those things, but could never bring up the time or money for some proper instructions.

No doubt, even if you transition you'll still have whistle skills, and the whistle skills will be a great foundation for whatever else you learn. I'm biased towards keyless Irish flutes, but just try as many things as appeal to you until you find what clicks.



quote:

I'm eying the Egyptian flute and love minor keys.

Do realise that you can play in minor keys on "major key" flutes (and vice versa, though I think playing minors on a major is easier). For example, as mentioned above on pennywhistle, to play Dmaj you start the scale on xxxxxx, while to play Em you just start on xxxxxo, so pretty easy. Generally speaking you can play quite a few different scales on a given flute, depending on which note you start your scale on, and also by techniques to shift the pitches of fingerholes by fork-fingering (like oxxooo) and half-holing (shading part of the hole with the pad of your finger vice covering it).

TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Jul 8, 2011

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

It's like 80 degrees outside. Don't be all neckbeardy, go to the park and get some fresh air.
Not an option where I'm living, I'm afraid :) 62 degrees and falling, with heavy rains. Also, I admit I'd probably be a bit embarrassed to sqeak around on an instrument I can barely play in public.

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Never hurts, but I'd focus on getting good at playing first, rather than put the cart before the horse. Doesn't do much good to read if you can't competently play what you're reading.
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

MrGreenShirt
Mar 14, 2005

Hell of a book. It's about bunnies!


Oh man, this is EXACTLY what I was looking for! Thanks, I can't wait to get started on these bad boys!

Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug
I really appreciate all your advice TTFA. I've done a lot of digging the past few days, just watching different youtube videos. And I think this is the one that convinced me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PDvPkV_-TM

I'm getting a Hayden duet concertina. The style seems fun, the layout makes it easy to do some accompaniment, and the size seems perfect. And from what you and everyone else seems to say, the Concertina Connection's Elise seems to be what I should start with. Probably will be a week or two before ordering one but I'll give a trip report when I do.

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres
Okay, not as weird as some of these other items, but relatively unusual and worth learning.

Mandolin



The mandolin has eight strings, but doubled close enough together that they're fingered and treated as four single strings. This doubling adds a lot of volume to a small instrument, and also gives a sort of shimmery feel to the notes. It's tuned the same as a violin, GDAE, so if you ever played violin you can probably figure out quickly how all the melodies you know transfer over right away.

I actually learned a little history while preparing this section, as I didn't know exactly how the mando came to the US. Turns out in the 1880s there was an ensemble of Spanish musicians who did a bunch of sold-out concerts in the US, playing a mandolin-like instrument. This kicked off a trend, and for a while the mando was popular, but more in a pop music and semi-classical kind of bow-tie setting. At some point in the early 20th century, various hilbilly bands were using mandolin, but mainly as a lame backup instrument you give to your least talented young cousin to strum quietly on. One of those young strummers, however, was Bill Monroe. I won't go into the whole story here, but basically he completely changed mandolin technique, became the head of a chart-topping band, and literally invented the genre called "Bluegrass".



He basically single-handedly made the mando cool, and now it's a staple of bluegrass, as well as popular in Irish, jazz, indie bands, and a cameo performer in tons of other genres. It has a lot of bright high end, with a little bit of rumbly low, it can be played lightning fast, and it has great control over its chording which allows real complexity of rhythm.

Let us pause for a moment and observe:

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NcCgsAMxhs&playnext=1&list=PLB3CCB517D38566C6 The Man himself. For context, mandolin tends to do "chop" rhythm chords when backing. The stand-up bass is like a drummer's kick-bass doing the downbeat, *boom*, and the mandolin is like the snare, going *chuck* on the upbeat. Note the other distinctive feature of bluegrass is the "breaks", having a bunch of solos for most of the band, which is a cool way to hear each instrument come in.

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKvDtWeyO5c An actual music video of Jerry Garcia backed up by David Grisman, a master mandolinist who often dropped in to help out the dead, but is in his own right one of the best players since Monroe. Slower song, so less lightning, but more groove.

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z3A5Tgy47M Modern Irish mandolinist Andy Irvine, back when he played for Planxty in the 1970s

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xfy9W9my_w Mandolin is what defines a lot of Led Zeppelin tracks, like Battle of Evermore; here Page plays solo for a documentary.



Okay, so what if you want to get one? The good news is that decent starter mandos are pretty affordable, and there's also a huge repository of advice at the forum Mandolin Cafe.

Last year I emailed a sailor I was working with in Afghanistan over cheap-but-decent starter mandos, below is what I dug up:

quote:

Did some reading-up on the forums at MandolinCafe.com (the main internet mando disccusion forum), and it seemed the hands-down recommendations for inexpensive starter mandolins were the Rover and the Kentucky. With a decent starter mando from a reputable seller, gig bag, picks and strap, and some books, you could have a hell of a good settup for under $299.

Folks did specify though that you want to buy them from a reputable shop that has good quality control checks, instead of just taking them out of the import crate and mailing them out (like most eBay sellers). The two stores linked below do full "set up" checking the action height, filing frets, etc. to make sure the mandos are properly tweaked.


Rover: http://www.folkmusician.com/Rover-Mandolins/products/74/
-A style: RM-50, $149, (no case) and up, though you probably want to add a case or gig-bag
-F style: RM-75, $419 (w/case) and up


Kentucky
-A-style (KM-160, etc) $259 w/ case, and up
http://www.themandolinstore.com/scripts/prodList.asp?idcategory=51&sortField=price


Above this price level, the main recommendations are Big Muddy, Eastman, and The Loar, all of which run around $500.


PICKS AND ACCESSORIES:

Be sure to order some picks with as well. Most mandolin players use the small "teardrop" picks, so you might want to order a bunch of those of various weights to see what works for you, and maybe a few larger guitar-style picks to see if you prefer those.

You want a strap too. The usual mandolin strap attaches to the button at the base of the body, but instead of having a button at the top of the body it has laces that you tie around the headstock between the pegs. This helps with the more extreme angles a mando is held at.

BOOKS:

So far as instructional materials, this guy's stuff is awesome. Website is cheesy (he's a small self-publisher) but material is great. His "Guide to Mandolin Chords" (in either size) is the hands-down best chord book for mando I've ever seen. It really clarifies how all the chords are modified variants of each other, movable around the neck, etc.

http://www.btinternet.com/~john.baldry/mando/hokkanen.html

His book/CD set "The Pentatonic Mandolin" is also great for theory.



So, that's the basics of cheap starters, and scads more info on the forum. Definitely get the pocket chord book, it's simply the best.

Overall, it's a versatile instrument with a lot of character, and equally good at adding rhythm-heavy backup or blistering solos. Compact, works fine with small hands, inexpensive, and can fit into most kinds of music out there.

TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 01:35 on Jul 9, 2011

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009

We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.



poo poo, I didn't think it was obscure enough or I would've done it. Should I do bouzouki or mandocello then?

And straps actually have a second peg on A-styles quite frequently ; it's pretty much just an F-style thing to wrap it around like that. Also, for whatever reason, the standard is to wear it just on one shoulder rather than across the back, although that's personal preference.

Finally, to do a post about mandolins and not include Chris Thile is heresy, so have some links :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wtkYFy8LxE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylxIRd6f5pQ

The man is indiscernible from a wizard.

O! And Rogue is really, really good for the price. That got me through my first year and a half of playing, and it came with a really nice case.

Xiahou Dun fucked around with this message at 06:19 on Jul 9, 2011

Buford Hectorman
Feb 24, 2003
this is a great thread, wish it was around when i was in college and really into this kind of stuff.

if anyone is interested in balalaika, in my limited experience it is hard to find ones with decent tuners. i got a nice balalaika from a relative in moscow but the machines were terrible by guitar (my main instrument) standards.

i found some better replacement tuners here http://www.imperskaya.com/tuning_pegs.htm but you have to check the peg spacing, etc. there's a lot of variation in balalaika design. i had to slightly modify the headstock of mine to make it work.

now i just have to figure out how to chord with my thumb without developing CTS.

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

Xiahou Dun posted:

poo poo, I didn't think it was obscure enough or I would've done it. Should I do bouzouki or mandocello then?

Dang, I'd asked for someone to do it from NMD:ML, but nobody turned up, so I jumped on it.

Yeah, if you want to do CBOM and mandocello (maybe toss in a shout for mandola too?) that'd be awesome. I believe withak plays a bouzouki (well, I sold him one I got in a pawnshop, so I assume he plays it), so he may come in in a bit, but feel free to take the lead on it. Can I suggest one mandocello clip?


quote:

if anyone is interested in balalaika, in my limited experience it is hard to find ones with decent tuners. ... i found some better replacement tuners here http://www.imperskaya.com/tuning_pegs.htm but you have to check the peg spacing, etc. there's a lot of variation in balalaika design.

Great find, dude! lovely tuners are all too common, but on a lot of instruments really easy to replace; balalaika not so much since you need a really long shaft on the lowest key. If folks can't find tuners that fit right, and have a not-valuable balalaika, you can always just get some decent banjo or ukulele friction tuners, since those just go straight through the back and so the wide head won't matter:




Next instrument, since I can't find any goon that plays them except the one on Pg1 who's learning this summer:

Hammered dulcimer



Very old instrument, found in Europe well back into the Middle Ages, and probably comes from Persia originally. Over time, it spread across most of Europe and Asia; I don't know for sure, but I believe it was brought to the US by German immigrants, as it seems well-established in Pennsylvania and the like.

The instrument is essentially an ancestor of the piano: a big zither you hit with hammers. You can't hammer a normal zither very well since the strings are close together, but on a HD the strings angle up and down, so they stagger themselves making individual pairs of strings easier to hit.

It's not a difficult instrument to start on; basically it's like playing piano with two fingers. You can play awfully fast once you get going, and it's a pretty cool feeling to have those hammers bouncing from one string to the next. In the US it's mainly used for Celtic and a bit for Old Time, though it's actually quite a flexible instrument overall. Though I enjoy playing HD, I have trouble finding recordings I like of it, since too many people that own them like to play Ye Olde Dance of Ye Lame Faeries and such kind of movie-soundtrack ambient "Celtic" stuff I can't stand. The instrument does, however, sound extremely awesome for darker, or avant-gardier stuff; it can be quite chillingly stark as a solo instrument.



Here's my attempt to find clips that don't spoil a good instrument:

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQIeV7cf-5w&feature=related a couple Irish jigs
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrKfyjE0DYg a little Old Time hymn music; I had read that some itinerant preachers used to haul small hammered dulcimers around, as it was more portable than an organ yet classier than the devil's instruments like the fiddle.
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSZWsKYZ4Ew Persian santoor backed up by a tonbak drum
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J99dDdCotPg And here's some edgy neo-classical



So far as finding one, these critters are surprisingly affordable given their size and all the strings going every which way. I'll go out on a limb and say that they're easy to build, basically a box that you put a bunch of pre-made bridges and tuning pins onto, and you're set. You can buy very reputable major-player (Dusty Strings) student HDs for like $500 new, and there are plenty of smaller makers making 15/14 HDs (that is, 15 sets of treble strings, 14 of bass) for $300ish, 12/11s for $200ish, and 9/8 "backpacker dulcimers" under $200. Backpacker dulcimers are quite cute, and about the size of a laptop so a bit more doable for dorm students; limited scale, but all the skills would cross over to a larger if you upgrade once you have more space/money.

I would just, like most things, avoid buying anything where you can't go on the Everything Dulcimer forum and find real players saying "yeah, I got a Model Y and I love it!". They're also so affordable there's no point buying crappy imports (setting aside imports of actual serious Persian or Indian instruments), since you can get them hand-made in the US by folks with an actual reputation to uphold for totally reasonable prices.

My folks had one years ago they bought randomly out of the newspaper classifieds, and it was fun, but I move a lot these days and don't have a huge place, though after writing this I'm (dammit) taking a hard look at a little 9/8 backpacker that I can just slide under the bed in a case when not using.

Today I did also get another instrument that I ordered after running across it while working on this thread, so I've been rocking a Meinl fibreglass udu drum this afternoon. I also have a couple more things in the mail coming to me that I'll share later.

Cardiovorax
Jun 5, 2011

I mean, if you're a successful actress and you go out of the house in a skirt and without underwear, knowing that paparazzi are just waiting for opportunities like this and that it has happened many times before, then there's really nobody you can blame for it but yourself.
Is it normal for a Clarke to sound kind of rough and squeaky with all its holes open? I've been doing breathing and the basic scales and I think I'm starting to get the hang of it, but the higher notes sound really horrible and indistinct to my ears.

Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug

Chin Strap posted:

I really appreciate all your advice TTFA. I've done a lot of digging the past few days, just watching different youtube videos. And I think this is the one that convinced me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PDvPkV_-TM

I'm getting a Hayden duet concertina. The style seems fun, the layout makes it easy to do some accompaniment, and the size seems perfect. And from what you and everyone else seems to say, the Concertina Connection's Elise seems to be what I should start with. Probably will be a week or two before ordering one but I'll give a trip report when I do.

Ordered it today. Can't wait for it to come!!!

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

quote:

Ordered it today. Can't wait for it to come!!!

Awesome! Hayden duet is a really intuitive layout, so I imagine you'll be figuring it out most quickly. This fingering system was apparently invented in the 1970s of so by a British concertina player, Hayden, who had a sudden brainstorm. He got some maker to start producing "Hayden duet system" boxes, and then years later folks discovered that a Swiss designer named Wicki had invented the exact same thing in the 1880s, but nobody has ever found any boxes actually made with Wicki's system, so its unknown if they were all lost/destroyed/coverted to other systems, or whether he just never sold anyone on the idea.

Looking forward to hearing how it strikes you when it comes in.

The guy who runs Concertina Connection also builds these, in case you ever feel like spending 20 times as much:



Lovely though.

Cardiovorax posted:

Is it normal for a Clarke to sound kind of rough and squeaky with all its holes open? I've been doing breathing and the basic scales and I think I'm starting to get the hang of it, but the higher notes sound really horrible and indistinct to my ears.

Hmm, I tried this on a few of my other whistles (albeit in different keys). Trying to keep myself from instinctively adjusting breath pressure to mellow the tone, my Generation can be a little rough if I don't adjust breath, whereas my Susato is slick no matter what. Again, I don't really care for Susatos, but they are drat smooth.

What I would suggest is that you experiment with breath on that specific note, trying all different pressures and seeing if you can mellow it out. If so, then it's just a matter of learning, over time, to adjust your breath slightly for various notes, which becomes instinctive. If no matter how you blow it it sound a little rough, then that's just the way it be, and not a dealbreaker or anything, just a characteristic.


On a concertina sidenote:



MIDI controller built in the Hayden concertina system, just some pieces of wood and wiring. Unfortunately the site with the plans and writeup is down, but if someone is genuinely interested we can use the Wayback, or I can check on the Concertina Forum and see if anyone has it downloaded.

Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Awesome! Hayden duet is a really intuitive layout, so I imagine you'll be figuring it out most quickly. This fingering system was apparently invented in the 1970s of so by a British concertina player, Hayden, who had a sudden brainstorm. He got some maker to start producing "Hayden duet system" boxes, and then years later folks discovered that a Swiss designer named Wicki had invented the exact same thing in the 1880s, but nobody has ever found any boxes actually made with Wicki's system, so its unknown if they were all lost/destroyed/coverted to other systems, or whether he just never sold anyone on the idea.

Looking forward to hearing how it strikes you when it comes in.


Any suggestions for a collection of simple tunes to learn to play? I would like to expand my folk music repetoire anyway.

withak
Jan 15, 2003


Fun Shoe
I played with a toy button box today and have learned that (like harmonica) I totally cannot wrap my head around the idea of having two different notes come out of one key. :-/

Buford Hectorman
Feb 24, 2003

TapTheForwardAssist posted:

Great find, dude! lovely tuners are all too common, but on a lot of instruments really easy to replace; balalaika not so much since you need a really long shaft on the lowest key. If folks can't find tuners that fit right, and have a not-valuable balalaika, you can always just get some decent banjo or ukulele friction tuners, since those just go straight through the back and so the wide head won't matter:

i was actually about ready to give up and use banjo tuners on my balalaika when i found that site. the stock tuners were that bad. had to grind down the headstock and the baseplate on those replacement tuners but it ended up working great.

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

Weird instruments you should NOT learn this summer:

The Ophicleide:



Everybody hates the ophicleide because "the high notes sound like wild animals", "the middle ones are not very...they don't work at all" and the low notes are "unreliable in terms of intonation".

Here is a good musician gamely doing his best with this godless hosepipe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RfkgsMENx8

And the only reason for this post to exist, this poem:

Professor Cabbage posted:

The Ophicleide, like mortal sin,
Was fostered by the serpent.
Its pitch was vague; its tone was dim;
Its timbre, rude and burpant.

Composers, in a secret vote,
Declared its sound non grata;
And that's why Wagner never wrote
An Ophicleide Sonata.

Thus spurned, it soon became defunct,
To gross neglect succumbing;
A few were pawned, but most were junked
Or used for indoor plumbing.

And so this ill wind, badly blown,
Has now completely vanished:
I nominate the Heckelphone
To be the next one banished.

Farewell, offensive Ophicleide,
Your epitaph is chiseled:
"I died of ophicleidicide:
I tried, alas, but fizzled!"

Chin Strap
Nov 24, 2002

I failed my TFLC Toxx, but I no longer need a double chin strap :buddy:
Pillbug

TapTheForwardAssist posted:


The guy who runs Concertina Connection also builds these, in case you ever feel like spending 20 times as much:



Lovely though.


Thats the one JeffLeff plays isn't it? It definitely sounds great and the extra buttons would be cool but yeah no way in hell i'd consider that until i gave a good year + practicing on the elise.

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

BIGFOOT PEE BED posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RfkgsMENx8

And the only reason for this post to exist, this poem:

quote:

The Ophicleide, like mortal sin,
Was fostered by the serpent.

Let the record show, however, that the serpent is loving amazing.. M Godard is now, hands down, my favourite brass player.



We covered the serpent a few pages back; one of y'all brass players should definitely take this up, especially since there's a good make for just $600ish these days.


quote:

I played with a toy button box today and have learned that (like harmonica) I totally cannot wrap my head around the idea of having two different notes come out of one key. :-/

Depends how it clicks for the individual; it can be very intuitive, especially for harmonies. I kind of have a similar thing, but where I have no problem picking out melodies/harmonies on diatonic accordion, but somehow can't play Anglo concertina at all, despite it being essentially the same thing in a different layout. Weird. But in your case at least you're consistent. If you want a concertina, you're going to need to go Duet or English instead.

quote:

Any suggestions for a collection of simple tunes to learn to play? I would like to expand my folk music repetoire anyway.

For Duet concertina, I started out droning on the left hand while playing melodies over that on the right, then moved 2-3 chord songs doing 2-finger chords on the left and melody on the right... and I honestly haven't gone much further than that since concertina is a minor secondary hobby for me, and the above is plenty for basic backup/jams.

So far as tunes, I'm a big fan of drony/dark stuff on concertina, and Shape Note melodies work great for that. My first recommendation would be Idumea (sometimes called by its first line "O am I born to die?"). You need one note below the keynote, so I'd play it first in Dm, so the words "oh am" are D, and then C for the start of "I", then D then F. You can probably figure out the whole rest of the melody from there. On the left hand, drone on the lowest D and A. If you want to make it a 2-chord, drop to C and G as your ear indicates a chord change.

Here's an interesting clip of several versions of Idumea, some of which sound like they might be concertina. I can't believe I haven't seen this clip before (2008 upload), and I'm going to promptly order the album this came from, and look into the band's other works.

Another tune that works well with a straight drone is Sergeant MacKenzie (also called "Cauld, Cauld Ground" by people apparently unable to use Google to look up song titles). For starters, just ignore the pipe intro and just play the melody with a single drone. Do note this a recently-composed song by a Canadian folk musician, whose grandfather was bayoneted to death in WWI, but still a great tune, and one a wider audience might be familiar with. When I was first in Afghanistan, 82d Airborne was using this as a funeral song, which fit quite well. If you want to see it in context of the battle scene that made it famous, clip here (requires log-in for violence).

There are a bunch of other tunes I like to play, but a lot of them just aren't up on YouTube at all, so I need to get off my tail and record myself playing. I also do a pretty fun version of Akon's I'm So Paid on Duet concertina, so I need to upload that too.

Oh, for a fun three-chord bluegrass piece with good rhythmic possibilities, try the spiritual Blood of the Lamb.


We've been pretty weak on electronic instruments since Pg1 when we had theremin. There was a goon who was going to come in and do electronic stuff, but he hasn't popped in yet, so I'll do an easy one:

Stylophone



The stylophone is, per Wiki, a "miniature stylus-operated synthesizer". Basically, you put the stylus on a portion of the keypad, it closes a circuit and produces a note. You can tap or slide to other notes, etc. So it's purely a melodic instrument, chromatic though not huge range. It was primarily made as a novelty/toy, and lasted on the market from 1968-1975.

Despite it being mostly a novelty, it showed up in a goodly number of recordings by actual bands: David Bowie, Erasure, Marilyn Manson, They Might Be Giants, Kraftwerk, etc. For most of those folks, I think they were using vintage models, which used to go for near $100 on eBay at one point. However, in 2007 a company bought the rights and brought it back into production, so you can get them at Urban Outfitters for $25 or so. Note that Jack White played one on a Raconteurs album, so you can still find some Limited Edition Raconteur's Model variants online, as well as a ton of YouTube clips from a stylophone contest the Raconteurs did.


These are very easy to play, and with a little skill can be pretty cool. Also a fun instrument just for playing along with your stereo, since they're chromatic, always in tune, and handy. For $25, you can't go too wrong.

Clips:

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkTQsOQLEeU An early Brett Domino piece, so nowhere near as polished or goofy as his later stuff, but it's all stylophone accompaniment of the sort anyone here could learn in short order. Make sure to watch his other videos for more complicated electronic stuff.
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juD3nWpUunU Original 1960s instructional record by Rolf Harris
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHgziac87-Y TMBG doing Particle Man with stylophone (though honestly a bit spastic, homeboy needs more practice)
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaXFsygp93Q&feature=related Stylophone ensemble: Albinoni's Adagio. Low-res, apparently filmed on a train, but somehow captivating


EDIT: There is a stylophone website, Stylophonica.com. Not too amazing, and their forum is pretty dead, but still some useful info. Plus you could always just post in their semi-dead forum for kicks and see what turns up.

TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Jul 10, 2011

bigfoot again
Apr 24, 2007

TapTheForwardAssist posted:


- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHgziac87-Y TBMG doing Particle Man

Ah, They Bite Me Giants, great band

Etheldreda
Jun 1, 2008

I took a look through my little collection of flutes and found this forgotten item, which was a gift I got so long ago that I don't remember where it came from or who gave it to me:



Could anyone tell me what the name of this flute type might be? It has an unusual embouchure hole and I can't get sound out of it no matter what I do. I figure if I know what it is I can find info on getting it to make noises. I'm trying to split my breath across the little notch but clearly am not doing the right things with my lips.

withak
Jan 15, 2003


Fun Shoe
There is an Andean flute where you blow across a notch in the end.

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

withak posted:

There is an Andean flute where you blow across a notch in the end.

Agree, my first thought was that it's probably a quena:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quena




If yours is hard to play, it's a toss-up between "you're not doing it right" and "it's a decorative tourist item that's not really playable." Only way to find out is to buy yourself (or build yourself) a decent quena and see if you can play.

For those inclined, handy, or cheap, you can make a quena for about a buck's worth of PVC, a pocketknife, sandpaper, and maybe a scissors (in place of a drill). I'd had good luck in the past drilling fingerholes in a piece of PVC by sipping one blade of a scissor in a hole and them smoothing it out.

Here's a pic of someone's finished one:




You can do the same for shakuhachi actually (which is blown in a very similar manner):

http://www.fides.dti.ne.jp/~sogawa/englishpagepvc.html

http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-a-Shakuhachi/




Looking at the shakuhachi forum, I found it interesting that their main recommendations for noobs were "spend $500-1000+ on a carefully handmade bamboo shakuhachi from some master-crafstman in Japan" or "get a piece of PVC and a pocketknife and get busy." In fairness, these were instruments traditionally handmade by wandering monks, so I'm guessing huge numbers of old-school shakuhachi were pretty rough affairs, so I'd submit it's not at all against the spirit of the instrument to just make one from available materials and start zenning out.







EDIT: Any of y'all who have eBay accounts, one small thing if you feel like helping smack people who are dicks there: certain musical terms, particularly those for some foreign instruments, tend to be spammed into listing titles. For example, I'm looking for "harmonium" (those little Indian pump organs), and some asshat has a listing for a bass sitar entitled "SURBAHAR~BASS SITAR~SAROD~TAN​PURA~VEENA~TABL​A~HARMONIUM". Clearly, his item is only the first two of those, not a harmonium, not a tabla (drum), etc. If you run across such things, please open the auction, select "Report item", and then choose "Listing practices", "Search and browse manipulation", and "keyword spamming." Doing so will help alert eBay that these jerks are messing up their search engine by dumping everything India-related together instead of showing sarods to sarod seekers, etc. Not a huge deal, but if you're on eBay anyway it'd be cool to pitch in on.

TapTheForwardAssist fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Mar 20, 2012

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres
In keeping with the Stylophone's theme of "toys for adults":

Oh, and by the way, I somehow managed to acquire a ridiculous number of Stylophones, and if my idea works I should have x times absurd number of them in a few weeks. I'm cornering the market on these bitches.


Toy piano



Various toy keyboard instruments (harpsichords, clavichords, etc) were made in history, probably going back as far as the 1600s or so when the instrument really took prominence (wild guessing here). But in any case, by the late 1800s factories were making them, but with, of all dumb things for a child's toy, glass bars as the resonating piece. Yep, child's toy where little hammers hit glass bars. Then in the late 1800s a Kraut immigrant named Albert Schoenhut was working at Wannamaker's department store in Philadelphia, fixing all the broken toy pianos they imported, and suddenly got the idea to use thin steel rods to produce the notes instead of glass. The Schoenhut company is still making toy pianos 140 years later.

The toy piano is pretty much a steel-bar xylophone with little levered keys on it. Push the key, it swing a hammer that hits a steel rod and sets it vibrating to the pitch determined by its length. Pretty simple, pretty durable.

Like most things, some proto-hipsters got a hold of them and said "whoa, wouldn't it be totally random to record songs with these?" (or however hipsters talked in the 1950s). So then we get the likes of John Cage and... a whole massive list of avant garde pianists I've never heard of, but apparently they're very famous, using the toy piano in compositions. So far as more modern bands using toy piano: Tom Waits, Primus, B-52s, Agitpop, Evanescence, Radiohead, Warren Zevon, Tori Amos, Sigur Rós, Vampire Weekend, Clap Your Hands Say Yeah, Old Canes, and The Dresden Dolls.



So far as brands, the main serious makers are Schoenut (reorganised but still pumping 'em out) and Jaymar (bought out by Schoenhut). Wiki also mentions Hering (Haring?) in Brasil and Zeada in China, but I know nothing about those. Toy pianos come in various sizes, from flat tabletop ones the size of a laptop, to upright tabletops, to stand-alone tiny spinets and grand pianos.

I'd say your best bet is to go on eBay and get a used Schoenhut or Jaymar, get a new Schoenhut from whatever kids' retailer. The two main pianos are pretty well made (for toys) and aren't necessarily cheap-cheap. It's about $50 for a new upright-tabletop Schoenhut, which isn't bad.



Most of the clips of these are avant-gardey stuff, so if you're into that, you're drat set:

Clips:

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIPtKgGedsk "Mozart's Piano Sonata No.11 "Alla Turca" played by Eiko Sudoh
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A2RRiimbW0 John Cage's "Suite for Toy Piano" played by Ellen Chen
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bea3eTKN3nA&feature=related Matthew McConnell's "Concerto for Toy Piano" with a dude playing a little tiny piano in front of an orchestra

bezel
Oct 19, 2009

chomp chomp chomp
Hey, what a fabulous thread! I have a whole apartment full of random musical instruments but, alas, they've mostly all been mentioned already. I may not be able to start from scratch but I do want to add to a few things that have been brought up before:

- If you really want to learn a new musical instrument this summer, the theremin is a terrible choice-- it's hard enough that you may never get to the point that you can actually play songs on it, and its reliance on electric power limits its portability for summer fun. Don't let me discourage you, though! It is an absolute blast to gently caress around with and everyone who sees it will want to play with it (possibly after you explain what it is). I wouldn't recommend one as an instrument to learn, but as a toy it is great fun.

And if you did want to buy one for serious, the manufacturer you want is Big Briar, a company founded by the late Bob Moog. Yes, that Moog.


- In defense of the recorder: If you grew up in the US, at least, you've probably already played one of these in primary school. This was mentioned as a negative (I don't want to think about what I was doing in fourth grade either) but I think it can also be a positive! It's very easy to pick up and play and feel confident about when you consider that most nine year olds can handle one just fine. My four year old nephew has messed around with mine before (granted, mostly just hitting things with it) and in a few years maybe we can play duets together. That is about as cool as it gets.

The recorder also scales up: what most people have experienced is actually a soprano recorder but there are larger versions with lower ranges available too. An alto recorder is only slightly larger, about half an octave lower (root note is G iirc) and sounds much nicer-- the lower range means it isn't so shrill. I once knew a gal who owned a bass recorder, which was taller than she was, made of nice hardwood and most of the holes had keys like a saxophone because you couldn't reach them otherwise. That's a little excessive, I think, but the point is that recorders can be more than just toys.


- If you're an experienced guitarist looking to pick up a new instrument, why not try a bass guitar? It will be familiar enough (standard four-string tuning is EADG) but playing style and technique is very different. It's not worth going into too much detail here, because I am sure there is plenty of stuff already out there and the bass isn't really a "weird" instrument, but it is something to consider. (And try it fretless! It is awesomer and not as difficult as you think.)



I'd be happy to come back and write up any other electronic instruments you might want to hear about, but the truth is that most wouldn't really be applicable as new weird instruments to learn this summer-- they tend to be "a piano keyboard that sounds different because of some odd internal circuitry" or "a midi controller with a difficult interface" and I wouldn't put either class into this thread. I mean, a Mellotron is awesome and so is a Hammond B3 but if you can play a piano then you already know how to play both of them (and you probably can't afford either).

The Letter A
Nov 8, 2002

I have been playing ukulele for a few years now, and that is a ton of fun, but I figured last week it was time to try something new.

I can't wait to get this thing home and tuned :D

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Mradyfist
Sep 3, 2007

People that can eat people are the luckiest people in the world
Sorry I wasn't around to jump in on the whistle discussion, I just got back from the Winnipeg Folk Festival today. And on that note, if anybody wants to be inspired to practice banjo, fiddle, or mando, watch this video from Trampled by Turtles. They're even better live, here's a shot of the fiddle player going at it like he's racing to saw down a tree:


TTFA's covered pretty much all the basics for whistle. Cardiovorax, if you're having trouble getting the upper register to come out clean, part of the problem could be embouchure instead of over breath pressure. Higher pitches on a fipple instrument need a higher velocity of wind traveling across the fipple, and while forcing more air will have that effect in the lower octave, you generally need to tighten up the inside of your mouth to increase the velocity further than what you can produce with your lungs.

Also, it can be difficult to cleanly start a high note from scratch, because your lungs can't instantly force air out at the speed you need. This isn't a problem when you're scaling up from lower notes like TTFA described, and that's definitely the best way to start practicing those top notes, but eventually if you want to be able to play them independently you'll have to practice tonguing, which is when you block your airflow with your tongue (usually by pressing it to the top of your mouth for whistle) and release it in a quick burst. This is also the only way to reach into third octave on a whistle, although that's not something you should worry about for a long time.

And it's perfectly normal for your whistle to sound bad with all holes open, that's generally the worst-sounding (and least in tune) note on a whistle. The tuning you can improve by adjusting your embouchure, but the tone is more due to the type of whistle. My understanding (and I could be wrong on this) is that conical whistles improve the balance in volume between notes and allow for smaller finger-holes (read: easier to learn, harder to half-hole) but in doing so they sacrifice the tonal quality of the open note. You can usually get away with this in whistles because not a lot of trad songs will spend a long time on the 7th of a scale. Cylindrical whistles will have bigger finger-holes, and sometimes the bell note (all fingers on) will be noticeably louder depending on the manufacturer, but the sound is more consistent.

One thing you can also try is checking the fipple itself to make sure there aren't any defects or burrs anywhere on it, as that part of the whistle is very sensitive to minute imperfections. Every once in a while I'll be playing my whistle, and realize I'm having trouble hitting the upper octave cleanly; I take a cloth and rub out the fipple area (or clean it thoroughly with dish soap and water, if it's been a while) and it plays much easier. I haven't bought a cheap whistle in a while, but on ones with plastic mouthpieces it can be helpful sometimes to take some fine sandpaper or a file and ensure that the fipple is as sharp as it can be - just don't take off a lot of material.

TapTheForwardAssist
Apr 9, 2007

Pretty Little Lyres

The Letter A posted:

I have been playing ukulele for a few years now, and that is a ton of fun, but I figured last week it was time to try something new.

I can't wait to get this thing home and tuned :D



That'd be an Apple Creek then, right?

Get tuned up, start just experimenting with it, in all the different tunings. Recall that the tuning defines the scale, so DAD and CAD will give you entirely different sounds on the dulcimer.

On YouTube, check out the Dulcimerica podcast series, and also dig up the free online book In Search of the Wild Dulcimer, the hippie classic.

Do you know what kind of music you intend to play on it?

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TurdBurgles
Sep 17, 2007

I AM WHITE AND PLAY NA FLUTE ON TRIBAL LANDS WITH NO GUILT.
Effort!
As mentioned before, I have gotten myself a Native American Flute!
I got the Butch Hall in Am. Due to my lack of a spirit animal I have selected a blank totem.

Quality of flute:
The construction quality is quite nice. I really like the finish of the flute especially around the mouthpiece. The mouth has been tapered down into a point which has been counterbored, making it comfortable no matter how I position it for playing (from what I gather this is personal preference). The flute is satin smooth and is coated in a light lacquer. The holes also have a very nice bevel to accommodate the fingers and there is a turquoise knubbin for indexing your hands. The result is a high level of feedback when positioning which helps a ton if you lose track of where your fingers are. The cedar actually smells quite nice too (is that gay?). The ID of the flute has not been sanded out which I could theorize would help tone and might be a feature on higher end flutes. Honestly the only thing that I am unimpressed with is that the little totem block was not made of the same wood which throws it off a bit visually which I’m pretty sure only I care about. Quality is totally worth the $50.

Musicality:
Overall I am quite surprised how easy it is to get a tone out. All my notes tend to have kind of a breathy backing to it save the low end which I think is my inexperience. There is an interesting characteristic of the flute in that I must increase my airflow as I progress higher to retain the same clarity. The flute fingering is not as straightforward as I thought, but I am adjusting. Breath regulation is quite important: if you are transitioning flow while changing fingers you will produce the dreaded “loon call”. You will learn to hate that goddamn loon. Overall it is quite relaxing to kick back and shoot some notes while watching a movie.

Ease of learning:
I don’t really have anything to compare it to, sorry. It is pretty easy and can make up some tunes that sound decent. I would recommend it.

If anyone wants pictures you'll have to pm me on how the hell to do it.

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