Game Jobs Megathread: Wear clean underwear to avoid the smellz.

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Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

This is the Game Industry / Jobs discussion thread. Mostly inhabited by folks in the industry, a good place to ask about making games for a living, etc.

If you want to talk about game design et al in general, there's a thread for that
If you want to ask about or discuss general game programming, there's a thread for that.
If you're developing in / curious about / needing to ask questions related to UDK, there's a specific thread for that.

Too much drama in the old thread. Time for a new thread. Old thread is here if you are interested.

IRC Channel: #SAGameDev on SynIRc.
Discord: There are several, just ask in the thread.

How Do I Get a Job Making Games?

Make Cool poo poo. If you can't do this you're not getting in. There is no way to bullshit or cheat your way in. The only ways in require putting in the work.

I worked at Gamestop...
No. Get the gently caress out.

The "I wanna be a" FAQ:
To be updated as people suggest things/ask things

Q: I've got this neat idea for a game
A: That's not a question, and so does everyone else. Having ideas is not a job. Nobody pays you for just having ideas. You need to demonstrate, via portfolio, that you have the skills required to contribute to the development of a game and that you have the motivation to be willing to learn and contribute as part of a team.

Q: Can't I just be the guy that tells everyone what to do?
A: Get enough money to develop and publish a game. There is no "tells everyone what to do" job, unless you're a solo operation. That's the only time it's a dictatorship. In any other environment, you're going to have to listen to and be influenced by other people. This can range from a two-man team to a full-fledged studio with lead designers, lead programmers, art directors, producers and publishers that all get a say in this, but no one is sitting around thinking great thoughts all day for a paycheck. All of those people are working hard.

The closest thing to this is a career in production. Product managers help teams make informed decisions about what to do, why to do it, and what the impact will be and what success or failure looks like. Producers/project managers lead teams operationally towards achieving those goals and answer the "how" and "when". The responsibilities here can vary greatly between studios based on culture. I've worked with studios that have a flat hierarchy that empowers production to drive everything and exceptional leads with good mature teams that production can trust to deliver. In other studios, production was neutered and leads drove all decisions with production being relegated to scheduling and producing reports that will go unread. Guess which one was more successful?

Q:The Dream: I wanna work in QA because I think this will allow me to get past the rigorous hiring process for higher positions including, but not limited to: artists, programmers, designers and producers.
A:The Reality: No. No, you won't get past being in QA. Real talk time: Yes, good QA is critical. Beyond critical. Yes, you can make a name for yourself making a career in QA if you're a) really really good at it and b) really love it. But, the overwhelming majority of QA positions are junior/entry-level, contract positions. Running games is a business, and QA labor costs less than engineer labor, and is in much higher supply. Which means, as a contract, typically hourly wage employee on the bottom rung of the totem pole, you are basically grinding in a thankless job, without much security. Again -- it's a business, so if you're not good at QA, nobody's going to care about giving you a shot to show off your art skills.

mp5 posted:

I'll offer my two cents on the subject. I feel like it's important to establish the distinction between different types of QA, and maybe this will allow me to give back to a thread that has helped me pretty significantly in getting to where I am.

The first and probably most important thing is that there's different types of QA out there. I got my start in this industry doing Publisher QA. This sort of thing is what the OP's quote basically refers to. It was contract work that left me unemployed for 1-3 months at a time, it was kind of thankless, and at times it was very difficult because there wasn't a lot of direction. My work basically boiled down to Localization testing, but I didn't really know what that meant going in. There wasn't really a test plan. We had to design our own test cases on the fly and that can be really difficult for someone just starting out who has no idea what the hell a test plan even is. I did become pretty good friends with someone who moved out of QA into PR after I had been there for 2 days, but he had been there for at least 2-3 years doing testing. "Sucking poo poo in the QA pit", as the quote says. There was no place for me to grow professionally there, no larger role I could fill.

I do genuinely like every single one of the people I worked with and worked under, that was just the reality of the situation. This is what can happen when you work at a small studio (20 or less in my case) that is not developing its own games and cannot afford to keep you around. One of the positive things I will say for the publisher I was working at: they gave me a chance when nobody else would or could, including the AAA developers in one of the largest hubs of game development in North America. I will always be grateful for that. In summation: If you are desperate then publisher QA is a possible option, but know what you are getting into and make plans to branch out elsewhere ASAP.

Developer QA is where I'm at right now, and if you want to get a good start in QA and make something of yourself through it, that's where you probably need to be too. You need to be working at a place that will not lay off the testers when a project goes gold because (speaking for myself) if you're living contract to contract you spend a lot of time worrying about basic survival needs instead of learning and growing. You need to be at a place where you can work overtime if you want it (sometimes even if you don't want it and they make you) because yes, the basic tester's pay can be kind of crap! Developers will often promote their testers internally once they have proven themselves because it's usually easier to do that than it is to hire people from the outside who don't know the culture (just like other jobs in this business). Someone who starts as a tester at a developer can move into management or supervisory positions naturally if he's good at it. A really good tester can be a valuable asset in teaching new hires the best way to analyze a developer's products. People like that can make a very good living for themselves. If you want to be a tester, aspire to be that kind of person. Actively work for it.

There are also external QA studios (sometimes called "QA farms") which handle contract work for developers that don't want to hire their own staff for a few different possible reasons. You'll see them advertised in places like Game Developer Magazine. I've never worked at one of these organizations so I can't offer any firsthand insight, but it seems like advancement there would be possible albeit limited. I know a couple of people who have been working at places like that for a while and seem to be doing alright for themselves, but I can't say for certain.

Being at a good studio is only one part of it, though. You need to be in the right kind of place making sure you are doing the right things. It's like any job. Put in the work, be reliable, take ownership of things you are responsible for which have had a positive influence and follow up with people on them, and always be willing to learn without being a judgmental prick to the developers whose work you are exposing flaws in. These things will help you get ahead even as a tester, and they will get you noticed by people. You don't want to be a grunt-level tester all your life. You don't want your career to become one big "Grandma's Boy" reference. It doesn't have to be that way.

The OP was right about one other thing, and that is that QA will not allow you to just "sidestep" the hiring process for other jobs in a company, not even at a developer. You still need to kick rear end and/or make cool poo poo. You will simply be in a better environment to learn about what kind of cool poo poo might get you noticed, and can maybe pick the brains of people who are already being paid to make cool poo poo. You don't necessarily have to make cool poo poo as a producer but you have to kick rear end in other ways.

Anyone who is serious about QA should also check out this here sweet book. You'll learn a lot from it. It's given me a great basis to work from.

I'll point out that I've been in reverse situations, where Publisher QA is treated amazingly, and Developer QA is the non-promoting, contract-to-contract environment. It all depends on the studio. And again -- if you're using QA as a launchpad into some other discipline, you still have to be proficient in that other discipline.

Q: I want to be a writer.
A: You are not special enough to get this job. HERE THAR BE DRAGONS.

Addendum: There is a robust writing community for the industry, but they're pretty much all freelancers. There is relatively little in-house writing. These positions are hard as gently caress to get. Take it from the writers in this thread -- if you manage to get a writing job, you've blown all the luck for the rest of your life and can kiss goodbye any dreams of winning the lottery.

quote:

OH HEY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT GAME WRITING LEMME JUST SETTLE ON IN HERE

The industry is changing, and for the better. What's really interesting nowadays is how the role of the narrative designer is being developed -- at some studios, a more accurate description of an ND is "narrative producer", advocating for story and keeping poo poo together as the key communicator between all functional disciplines that have a hand in story. Something to consider as part of the changing landscape.

But back to the discussion at hand re: the OP. If I were to rewrite the OP, I'd summarize as follows:
They exist, and in many forms -- contracting, offsite freelancing, full-time -- but they are rare as gently caress and competitive as all get-out.
You need experience and a dynamite portfolio to get a crack at these gigs if/when they appear. If you don't have experience, you need a dynamite portfolio and a willingness to do assloads of spec work, usually after signing an NDA that waives any rights to the content you develop as part of the process.
You need to know intimately, and be able to speak competently, about : writing for a diverse range of media, cutting-edge narrative techniques in games, game design, technical considerations, production pipelines (recording and localization are bigguns), and so on.

So, pretty much exactly what's already there, now that I think about it.

Here's another way to think of it: For every one fresh-faced budding game writer with a degree and little else under their belt, there are at least two ex-Hollywood writers with a movie and maybe some TV experience angling for the same job. If you want to get into game writing, your task is to figure out how you can bring more to the table than the dudes that could give a gently caress about games as a storytelling medium but want a spot with a little more (relative) stability.

(You'll know these guys when you see them because they never use Excel when writing chatter, if they write chatter at all.)

Yes, make NWN modules. They establish that you can wrap your head around content development toolkits and work creatively within parameters. Yes, work on your portfolio, even if it's not GAEM WRITINGZ. Write all the time. Get used to killing yourself for little to no recognition. And if you land any industry gig -- QA, production, whatever -- and you want to break into game writing, find the dudes tasked with the lion share of the work and beg to take some of it off their plate. Be prepared to prove your worth before they'll utilize you. Offer to copyedit.

Embrace your desperation and keep bashing your head against the wall. It's not Hollywood, but it gets closer and closer to that model every year.

Q: I want to be a designer, how do I become a designer?
A: Design and build levels, small games and other things that are playable. It's best to focus on making stuff that is similar to the sort of thing you'd want to work on - making a bunch of flash dating games is not going to get you a job working on an FPS. (this needs more fleshing out if you're a designer please post)

1) Make awesome stuff!! This is all that really matters at the end of the day. If your first try isn't awesome, finish it anyway, release it, and make your next attempt the awesome one. Make stuff for yourself: if you aren't constantly thinking "drat, I really want to play the level/game I'm making" then you're not going to get it done. If you're making maps, make them for a game you love; if you're making your own game, make it something you desperately want to play, not something you think will be "popular" or trendy. Make something tangible you can hold up and say, "I made this. It's awesome. I can do work like this for you." Until you can do that, nothing else on the periphery is going to make a difference.

2) Don't just make stuff and sit on it, be sure to show it off anywhere and to anyone who might be interested. Enter your poo poo in contests, post about it on forums, get constructive criticism from your peers. If you're working as QA or some other entry-level job at a studio, show your stuff off to the guys in your department, or to designers if you're tight with any of them. If I hadn't linked to my work on SA, I wouldn't have my current job.

3) If you want to be a designer, and you're able, get a four-year degree. Make it something you're interested in, use the time to expand your range of influences and work on your own game-related stuff in your spare time. I took a lot of film, art, and art history classes. Being culturally aware is important as a designer. Having a degree will help you get hired and be paid more. Meanwhile, pick up a level editor and use online forums and tutorials to teach yourself how to use it. Have some stuff to show off by the time you graduate.

4) Play a lot of different stuff and think critically about it--how and why it does and doesn't work. Don't stick to only playing the big, hyped GOTY candidates, or spend 90% of your time playing WoW or Counter-Strike. Give yourself a broad base of stuff to experience and analyze. Games that are only halfway there, or rip off popular titles with poor execution, are usually more instructive than perfectly polished blockbusters that get glowing metacritic scores. Games outside the genres you normally play can inform how you think about your old favorites. Being a designer means understanding exactly how games work, and further how to avoid the mistakes of past games you've played and create an experience that's absolutely compelling to the end user. If you don't play games, it will show when you try to design one! This is called being bad at your job!

5) Be prepared to move. I (not the OP, another poster in this thread) was lucky enough to be in SF already, and still I had to move 2000 miles to get my first design job. If you're not prepared to go to where the games are, especially if you're in the middle of BFE, it's going to be a long hard road to your first design job unless you're incredibly lucky or start your own company. Think of it as an opportunity: most dev studios are in pretty cool, metropolitan cities, or at least quirky little college towns. -- Thanks Dr. Video Games 0002! Addendum: This means go to California, especially the LA and San Francisco area. Also, Seattle, Vancouver, Montreal, and Austin. There are also some rising hubs, like Boston, New York, the D.C. area, Atlanta, Baton Rouge, and a couple others. -- For reference, it took me 3+ years to find studio work in D.C., before my name got out there enough to start getting calls.

Q: I want to become an artist, how do I become an artist?
A: Make art! Pick a discipline (environment, vehicles/props/weapons, characters, UI/motion graphics, animation, etc) and focus 80-90% of your portfolio on that. Do NOT stick to a single style and DO NOT use a style as a crutch to hide your weaknesses - IE, making furry/animu/robot characters because you don't know anatomy, cel-shading because you can't texture, DS/PSP specs because you can't figure out normal mapping, etc. Focus on a variety of styles and settings, and learn (but don't necessarily show) related aspects of the discipline (IE, you should know the basics of animation if you're a character artist, etc). Only your best work in your portfolio, and keep it focused. Your singly biggest thing will be to constantly keep a high-quality, evolving portfolio showcasing both your talents and how you are learning and improving as an artist.

Q: I want to be a programmer, how do I become a programmer?
A: Write programs. Also you probably have to be loving insane because I don't know how you guys do that stuff because I get flustered when I go beyond making basic 2d shooters in flash. The going advice is generally to focus on your core math skills, and not worry so much about the hot new language of the day. Learning your core math skills will make you better as a programmer independent of any language or type of project you'll be working on at a given time. It will also help you to think for yourself, which is very critical. Just ask in the thread. There are plenty of engineers here. It would greatly help for you to know the basic principles of Agile software development.

Addendum: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3302351&pagenumber=5#post376752722

Q: I want to do games business development
A: There are two broad categories of biz dev on the publisher side. One is content dev, where you sniff out new content for the publisher to invest in. The other is corporate dev, such as acquisitions of firms.

In both, you tend to be under the legal or corporate planning arms of the publisher. Biz dev isn't hired out of school; you'll need an MBA and/or relevant biz dev experience, OR a good network in the industry, all of which requires years of work experience. I've also seen JDs involved in biz dev, as an alternative to MBA, but MBAs are more frequent for the corporate side. (Industry networks reign on the content side.)

The nice thing about corporate biz dev is that you don't need to have industry experience to start down the path, and the industry is small enough to grow your network quickly once you enter.

Biz dev at a studio or start up is a different beast. There, you are mainly pitching the business to others in order to attract clients or investment. Many times the position is instead filled by the CEO, COO, or GM.

Q: I want to do game audio, how do I do this?
A: I don't know audiogang.org is a good place to start

Q: I want to be a journalist for games.
A: No you don't. Games journalism is a dying industry right now, because there are so many sources for information out there that people simply don't need big funded sites anymore. If you just want to write about stuff, go start a blog. If you really want to be a journalist in the industry there are a couple things: 1. You have to be a really really good writer. I'm not talking about "oh, I think I can write;" I'm talking about "I got nearly perfect on my verbal SAT scores and have a Journalism/English degree from a top tier school," that kind of good. 2. You need a degree, and you need prior journalism experience. Anything less than that is not going to get you paid. Blog experience helps, but doesn't count. Write for your local newspaper, freelance, do what you have to do. 3. Know somebody in the industry who knows someone in journalism; typically this will be community managers, some producers, and the like. 4. Go to trade shows, especially where you can get press credentials as a blogger, and make friends (but don't be obnoxious about it). This is a good way to find openings, since this kind of job doesn't appear too often on the job boards.

Or just get on YouTube and contract with a MCN, and get tens of thousands of subscribers that way.

A2: I'm going to have to disagree with the OP saying that you need to be a grammar god from a top tier school to get into this field, or even a "good writer." I don't look for degrees, I look for journalists. As a news editor I need people who will report facts quickly and accurately, and have enough knowledge of the industry and its history to see the "big picture" and explain why my readers need to care about something (or if they don't have that knowledge, they can look poo poo up fast enough that I don't notice).

Of course this is all from the perspective of news, but that's like 80% of games journalism anyway. But what do I know, Kotaku is the most popular game news site and I disagree with just about everything it does, so maybe I'm wrong.

Also see SirLarr's post on the subject: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3302351&pagenumber=2#post376611972

Q: I want to be a video game lawyer and do video game law
A: There is no such thing as "video game law", per se. There is contract law, IP, and labor law for game industry clients. There are so few attorneys in the field that jobs come up once every few years at best, and even still those lawyers in the industry don't necessarily have 100% of their practice in games. Very very very few people succeed at this, even amongst talented attorneys. If you seriously want to try this, ask Leif.

Q: I want to be something else related to games, how do I become it?
A: I have no idea help me fill this section

Differences between Game Design Schools, Trade Schools, Colleges, Art Schools etc.

devilmouse posted:

As someone that's had the pleasure of interviewing/working with far too many people... (Blah blah over generalizations, stereotypes...)

For programming (and god help us all, "design"), Full Sail turns out pretty weak candidates, though if they're not working on mission/performance critical systems and you give them a ton of oversight, they can be alright. Digipen's programmers tend to be much better, for whatever reason. The difference in a CS major and a trade schooler is scary. The CS majors tend to be able to think abstractly about problems and concepts while the trade school folk get panicky if they can't apply some drilled in rote memorization solution from a book. There's a pretty sharp distinction between computer PROGRAMMERS (trade schools) and ENGINEERS.

For art proper (not animation or tech art- which, again, seem to turn out alright... perhaps because these are both skill sets you can learn? There are precious few animators these days that are classically trained.), the trade schools are abysmal. The best artists I've worked with all went to traditional art schools (RISD, MICA, etc) and they blow away their trade school counterparts.

In both cases, the trade school people have this odd primadonna / entitlement complex about them. "I got my degree in making games, so obviously I know things!" At RISD, kids would be regularly be reduced to tears in crits and profs would bluntly tell them that they might want to change majors / drop out. Learning to take criticism seems absent from the trade schoolers and when you're working on the bottom of a totem pole, the last thing you want to do is to pout about not being taken seriously enough (artists with <1 year experience throwing a hissy fit when not being allowed to texture/model characters... programmers wanting to rewrite large swaths of the engine because 'that's how Unreal does it'...).

If you're going to drop some stupid amount of money on a school, make it a real one and get a proper education, not some "accredited" "certificate". Or just take free classes online at MIT or hook up with some modders and build something or hang out on cgtalk and get crits to build up a portfolio on your own.

The art schools around here all have pretty strong ties with the game shops and the game companies have intern/co-op opportunities pretty consistently. Everyone wins with these... the students get experience and the companies get cheap labor. If there's a match, then a job offer can quickly follow.

edit to be less of a dick: I have worked with great people that went to Full Sail/Digipen/etc, but these are far from the norm.

What do Interviewers Look For??

FreakyZoid posted:

Last year I wrote this based on some of the things I do and don't like seeing in design interviewees.

http://www.mainlyaboutgames.co.uk/2010/06/tips-for-game-design-interviews/

Recommended Books: (These aren't my recommendations, merely goon recommendations)
Game Development and Production (Wordware Game Developer's Library)
http://www.amazon.com/Development-Production-Wordware-Developers-Library/dp/1556229518

Websites:
boards.polycount.net (art)
cgtalk.com (art)
game-artist.net (art)
gamedev.net (programming)
gamasutra.com (game development, also really good job board)
http://gameindustrytweet.com/ - list of industry people's twitter accounts. Don't abuse this.
http://www.gamedevmap.com/ - map of the industry. Find someone near you!
http://aigamedev.com/ As the name suggests, it's AI-specific and all mostly technical. It's a "premium" site, but the forums are somewhat active and I've actually learned a fair bit there that I've been able to put into practice.
http://gamedev.stackexchange.com/ Again, looking at the URL, you know what this is: Stack Exchange's Game developer question and answer site. If you're learning about programming, it's a good one-stop shop for being to ask anything and not be mocked.

Job Boards:
http://www.gamasutra.com/jobs/
http://www.gamejobs.com/
http://www.creativeheads.net/
http://www.gamedev.net/gamejobs/
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/jobs
http://www.indiegamejobs.com/
gamerecruiter.com (recruitment company, some goons have had good experiences with them)

Other Awesome and Related Threads:
Source Mapping 2007
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2670759
New Source Mapping thread
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3137669
Old thread
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3091708&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1
Making Games megathread (for actual design related stuff, and the goon game design competitions)
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2711122#post337034285
:siren:

E3 2010 Goon Meetup :siren:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3301989
:siren:

Current SA Game Dev Contest Thread :siren:

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3310460

Who are we
"How I got a job in the industry" stories - I think these are helpful because this industry doesn't have as clear a path as others: (note, slightly out of date, but PM me if you need an updated position/title)

Sigma-X (Art Producer)
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2552543
GetWellGamers (QA)
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2552543#post330512073
Shalinor (Programmer/Designer/Indie studio CEO)
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2552543#post330522567
Yahtzee (Design. Also the ZP reviews)
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2552543&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post330575202
GimpFarFar (Concept Artist)
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2552543&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post330586477
aasBandit (Designer)
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2552543&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post330587936
MiseryUnited (Designer)
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2552543&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=3#post330657666
hippieman (Producer)
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2552543&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=5#post330865875
rope kid (Designer)
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2552543&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=6#post331076220
Cach.e (Programmer)
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2552543&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=12#post336939010
Dr. Video Games 0002 (Designer)
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&postid=338053643#post338041677
marshmonkey (Designer)
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&postid=341360814#post341360814
Leif. (formerly SWATJester/Diplomaticus) - Producer/Project Manager, Lawyer
Splaa - Spent 3 years at Activision Minneapolis in the production trenches. credits
SirLarr - Journo
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3302351&pagenumber=2#post376611972
Real_scud - I'm a UI developer/designer for Tiger Next-Gen (360/PS3) and have been working at EA Tiburon for almost a year and a half.
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3302351&pagenumber=1#post376583281
TheRedEye - Journo, 1UP
DancingMachine - Programmer, Microsoft, worked on Flight Simulator X and FSX: Acceleration
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3302351&pagenumber=1#post376586966
Monster w21 Faces (head of community management/designer)
Imajus (lead environmental artist)
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3302351&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post376594100
Dunkman (Community Coordinator)
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3302351&pagenumber=2#post376606569
Monochrome - Senior Tester, Harmonix
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3302351&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=2#post376601006
Dipes - indie game designer
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3302351&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=3#post376615271
Zerf - Programmer at Paradox Interactive
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3302351&pagenumber=2#post376613050
Matlock -Journo
Magic - Codemasters Racing Studio
Evang -
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3302351&pagenumber=4#post376694060
Lum - "Lum The Mad", Journo, Programmer, lead designer, tools programmer at NCSoft Austin
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3302351&pagenumber=4#post376654377
Star Warrior X - Indie developer
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3302351&pagenumber=4#post376652965
Hummer - Senior Designer at 343 Industries
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=0&threadid=3302351&pagenumber=4#post376645113
Blocko - Senior Developer QA at Relic
Mega Shark - Senior Producer
Andio - Global Support Services Coordinator for SCEE
theflyingorc - Gameplay Programmer at Funcom
Dinurth - Producer.
loquacius - Test Engineer
mutata - Eternal Intern
Chernabog -2d animator/artist
Aliginge - Aliginge - 2D Artist at 4J Studios (Minecraft! ) and part time Pepsi Max addict.
Maide - S2Games - Web Programmer (Everything in the realms of: Web-Based Tools, All Game to Database interactions, everything Web Sites, System Designs, and much, much more!)
Smegbot - Programmer
Freelancepolice - Producer but also Designer at Fullfat in Coventry
Fishbus - Level Designer at Splash Damage
diaghilev - Mobile Tester at Pocket Gems.
AmazonTony - Marketing Manager - Digital Video Games Amazon.com
Brackhar - Senior Technical Designer at Riot Games
volcultsmer - Technical Director (programmer) at DICE: Stockholm

There are probably dozens more, not included on this list. Keep bugging me if your info is wrong or missing or outdated.

Note: feel free to PM me if you want to be added to this list; it would be nice but not necessary if you included position, company, and credited games.

I hate X about the OP

I didn't write all of this; I wrote some, copied some, used some from other threads. If you disagree with the OP, give me something to put in to balance it out. Make sure you post it publicly in this thread. And don't yell at me about it, because I may not have written it.

Leif. fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Feb 4, 2018

# ¿ May 31, 2011 16:49

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 16, 2024 04:23

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Blinkman987 posted:

For journalists/writers, for god's sake, be on loving time. If you're so lucky as to be offered a position writing for a company or website on contract, the last thing some editor or content manager needs is to have to go to their boss and answer questions as to why a translation isn't done or a piece didn't go up for the day. I am repeatedly shocked that people given such an opportunity would play so fast-and-loose with it.

Counterpoint: for journalists, your interviews at trade shows will run long. You will be late for things. Know what you can and can't be late for.

Also: Marketing staff and producers that are presenting at trade shows: don't ever loving make us wait, and especially don't blow us off after you've already scheduled us in for an appointment (I'm looking at you, Realtime Worlds.)

# ¿ Jun 1, 2011 03:10

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

FreakyZoid posted:

Last year I wrote this based on some of the things I do and don't like seeing in design interviewees.

http://www.mainlyaboutgames.co.uk/2010/06/tips-for-game-design-interviews/

Added to OP.

Carfax Report posted:

Q. I want to do games business development

A. There are two broad categories of biz dev on the publisher side. One is content dev, where you sniff out new content for the publisher to invest in. The other is corporate dev, such as aquisitions of firms.

In both, you tend to be under the legal or corporate planning arms of the publisher. Biz dev isn't hired out of school; you'll need an MBA and/or relevant biz dev experience, OR a good network in the industry, all of which requires years of work experience. I've also seen JDs involved in biz dev, as an alternative to MBA, but MBAs are more frequent for the corporate side. (Industry networks reign on the content side.)

The nice thing about corporate biz dev is that you don't need to have industry experience to start down the path, and the industry is small enough to grow your network quickly once you enter.

Biz dev at a studio or start up is a diffent beast. There, you are mainly pitching the business to others in order to attract clients or investment. Many times the position is instead filled by the CEO, COO, or GM.

Added to OP.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2011 03:11

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Ice Blue posted:

Is this an overly common sentiment in people trying to get into the industry? As if coming up with ideas without putting actual work into implementing the idea is a job.

Yes.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2011 04:27

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

GetWellGamers posted:

I did this last time, but I'm going to complain again about your "I want to start in QA" rant. You should make the distinction that Publisher QA is an unloving hellhole whereas Developer QA has ample room for advancement if you do your work.

Write me something up and I'll put it in!

Blocko posted:

As someone who currently works in a Senior Developer QA position and previously worked Publisher QA, I agree with this sentiment. I'll write up a post on how the two differ once I finish this smoke test

You too! Except make GWG do it instead and use the time to make Space Marine awesome!

Monster w21 Faces posted:

Not to be pedantic but I'm no longer a community officer. I'm the head of community management/designer.

I'll also be writing about how I got into the industry in the next few days as it's a weird story.

Will fix.

# ¿ Jun 1, 2011 23:07

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Acethomas posted:

The key to BD is to become good friends with the bartenders and restaurant managers at the W.

This, so hard.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2011 04:26

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

dylguy90 posted:

Thank you very much for the reply, that is really encouraging to hear! I have actually been wondering about this for a while now.

I am an economics major who wants to be a game developer, but I don't have any of the skills right now, so I am more interested in marketing than BD anyway, because of the (potential) collaboration with the game developers. I am thinking that a good plan would be for me to get some experience on the marketing side (preferably studio, since it seems like one is closer to the actual game production in a studio environment), while slowly building up my game development skills on the side, so that I will have contacts and experience within the industry by the time I decide to transition over to game development. Does that sound like a good/feasible long-term plan?

You do not need to try and get a job in games marketing for your first job. What you need is to get a job that will give you experience with preparing your company's branding and presence for trade shows. Having experience running booths at a trade show or other kind of exhibition, especially if you can get experience with the preparation leading up to that, is going to be invaluable to you as you transition into games. Secondarily to that, you want a company that has multiple products and will let you either be the project/account manager (if they term that as a marketing position rather than executive/production) or work closely with that person, if not. Having experience as an account manager is also very helpful when you will want to transition into games. Get as much CRM experience as you can.

My point is that for a marketing job, your industry is not really that important -- having a knowledge of games or a specific IP is not important. That stuff can be taught to you relatively quickly. But you need practical, hands-on experience with the aspects of the job that are fungible between industries.

-e- much of this applies to BD too, except substitute "trade shows" for experience with direct sales and product research (though having trade show experience is nice, it is not nearly as important as it is for a marketing rep).

# ¿ Jun 2, 2011 20:58

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

OP updated.

# ¿ Jun 4, 2011 19:14

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Dominoes posted:

Holy gently caress, you really do everything.

Yeah my strengths unfortunately are in breadth not depth.

# ¿ Jun 6, 2011 01:39

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

waffledoodle posted:

Here's my vote:

Funny on multiple levels.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2011 19:09

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Shalinor posted:

Note that if we do any kind of gang tag, it will be purely opt-in. No outing of folks that don't want to be outed. It may also be tied to SA GameDev. Hmmm. We shall see.

Meh on the SA GameDev tie-in. Seems to me like they should be two different things for two slightly different groups.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2011 23:32

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

As a former infantryman let me just say please for the love of god do NOT use airsoft as a modelling reference. That's like using a micro machine or hot wheels as a reference to model a car. There's going to be things out of place/missing by nature of it being a toy and not a full firearm.

Leif. fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Jun 19, 2011

# ¿ Jun 19, 2011 07:31

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Aliginge posted:

Same with Robert Bowling and Call of Duty. I've been guilty myself of directing frustration about MW2 towards him as much as Infinity ward, but at the end of the day, you don't shoot the messenger. :L

I am really not a fan of a single person being the PR face of a game or company unless it's the CEO or Producer, they get paid shittones more than a community manager id gather so they can take it.

The difference is when it is the community department itself that fails. For example, when I went to an appointment with RTW at a trade show, another outlet who didn't have an appointment came to do an interview as well. Right in front of me, they scratched my name off the list and gave the other guy a 30 minute session, and told me to come back that afternoon. This is after having me wait 15 minutes just to talk to anyone. Then when I actually came back to the second interview, they told me that the team "got tired and went home".

It was absolutely 100% unacceptable behavior, and the worst part is, while I got a very nice apology from the account exec. from their PR company (who I had an existing relationship with), I never once heard an apology from the producer who blew me off, or anyone else representing RTW at that show.

When it is the community department's fault (among others), they deserve to get blamed.

# ¿ Jun 20, 2011 04:52

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Monster w21 Faces posted:

When was this? What show?

PAX East. Not this most recent one, the first one.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2011 01:12

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Mush Man posted:

Diplomaticus, the quote for the Differences between Game Design Schools, Trade Schools, Colleges, Art Schools etc. section in the OP is missing. I found it really insightful. Can you please put it back? I retrieved it from the old thread.

Huh, don't know how that happened. Fixed.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2011 01:14

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Chasiubao posted:

So, if the past couple of years are any indication, games that go from subscription to F2P didn't have enough subscriptions to sustain themselves.

Let me be clear I'm not casting any aspersions on anyone's work or the quality of their game: But I'm curious, what's the motivation for going F2P? It's fine if you say, "Not telling!"

Take a step back and rethink the assumption of why subscriptions are necessary. Considering what the player actually wants to do (play a game), and the opportunity cost of choosing among a multitude of potentially great games with subscriptions, not counting the purchase price of the game itself, subscriptions are not necessarily the best business model anymore.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2011 02:15

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Sigma-X posted:

My buddy who used to work for a company that did F2P games exclusively said their average take per unique account was $80 per account.

As in, effectively every 3 'free' players, there was a $320 player balancing them out.

Compare that to to $13 a month for 2-3 months (not counting the first 'free month' included in the box, which post distro and retail is probably closer to $20 in takeaway) and it looks really loving lucrative.

I don't have it handy but there was a Game Developer article on LOTRO going F2P and doubling their monthly income in the first month and then increasing after that.

The motivation towards going F2P is cash dollars. The motivation to do anything with a large project is the hope for more cash dollars.

LOTRO F2P was also hot on the heels of DDO going F2P which tripled their revenue.

Also, it doesn't often get talked about, but F2P games also have the benefit of greatly extended reach for in-game advertising.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2011 02:37

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Raph Koster has a blog post that essentially nails this concept. I've had it bookmarked since he wrote it, as it's generally the easiest way to explain the reasoning behind microtransactions.

http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/03/16/arpu-vs-arppu/

# ¿ Jun 22, 2011 02:53

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

I kind of like that our thread title changes every couple days. Keeps things fresh.

I'm sad, I'm packing up my PC and consoles tonight and won't see them for two months at least, assuming they don't fall off the boat/get stolen by pirates/get robbed off the flatbed in Djibouti.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2011 03:35

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Especially given that the GD Mag Salary Survey is available for anyone looking simply for aggregated data.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2011 22:52

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

BizarroAzrael posted:

gently caress all of you with your broadbands and editor tools and youtube tutorials (without a good hour to stream ahead of time)

Do PC magazines still put this sort of thing on cover disks?

You don't get to bitch. I'm in a country with 2% internet penetration and the fastest connection here is 1x EV-DO.

# ¿ Jul 6, 2011 08:04

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Shalinor posted:

I wear my LEGO Universe jacket around in the winters because it's a really, really nice jacket. Super comfy, really warm, just all around nice. Similarly, my LU shirts are in my regular t-shirt rotation just because they don't scream LEGO on the front with nothing else - there's some nice art on them, the only actual logo/name is smallish on the top back.

... but for the shirts (like Blizzard, Insomniac, most studios without a strong logo / whose logo is just their name) that just have the name across the front or back? Yeah, screw that, I feel like a super nerd.

It is fun to get the occasional question, though.

"Where does someone get a LEGO jacket?"
"You work for them"
"..."

I remember being utterly astounded the first time someone came up to me at a convention and said "Are you Dan from GP?" and had actually read my work. I imagine it's one thing for an artist/coder/whatever to get people fanboying about them but for a lawyer it's like :ese:

# ¿ Jul 12, 2011 09:59

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Monster w21 Faces posted:

I'm not on my way, I am one. I think I'm the only one here though.

I have done it in the past, both inside and outside the industry.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2011 13:54

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

GetWellGamers posted:

Oh hey, awesome! If you see Marc Menchner around, tell him I said hello. The past couple GDCs have been too "Got a meeting, sorry!" for us to actually stop and say hello to each other...

Yeah Marc is pretty boss. He helped me out quite a bit getting started in a non-traditional field.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2011 14:15

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

M4rk posted:

EDIT: Guys, I've taken a couple business law classes during my time in college, just for elective credits, and learned quite a bit from very insightful professors about contract writing and rights, etc.. I'm not an expert by any means, obviously, but I feel a bit more empowered now than when I signed a contract with Curse in 2008.

I'm wondering if you folks have ever negotiated your contracts with the companies you work/worked for, or if that's even possible. Because I know I'm going to read any contract I'm supposed to sign from front to back, highlight every clause I have issues with, and ask for clarification on every point that concerns me before signing.

Are contracts a brick wall in the videogame industry? Will the company just toss me out on my rear end if I refuse to accept certain terms of the contract, such as non-compete agreements? Have you guys ever refused to sign a contract until it was amended or corrected? I can't imagine a company would go through weeks of searching and interviews and throw it all away and start over if the person they wanted to hire decided he/she wanted to negotiate the contract.

Just wondering, maybe I'm alone in being a total hardass when it comes to contracts. My favorite law professor was this old ex-military dude who led tank columns in the 70s and 80s, and I've been infected by his legal badassitude.

The industry is significantly better than some other fields in terms of contract flexibility. That doesn't mean you can flat out refuse certain things, or even that it is a good idea to, but there can be room for negotiation. If you have a specific question, send me a PM and we can talk about it privately.

I'll temper that by saying most companies have their non-competes/nda's pretty well good and set up and most of them are standard boilerplate. There is a fair amount of take-it-or-leave-it in these due to quite a few legal issues (lack of enforceability in all states, management/admin issues with having different employees under different non-competes, etc.)

If something is flat out wrong, then you should by all means challenge it. But even a tough-looking clause may actually not mean much of anything to you. You should seek an attorney such as myself familiar with the industry for more detailed advice; some goons in this thread who I have represented can vouch for that as to how tricky these things can be.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2011 09:05

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Monster w21 Faces posted:

We kinda just put down our down payment on our first place together in the last week and we're moving in together at the end of the month. Should have mentioned that.

I'll talk to her though.

My fiancee and I were apart for 3 years while I was in law school. It's doable if she's worth it.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2011 17:30

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Aliginge posted:

France, Germany and Japan are three off the top of my head.

Countries that actualy invest into their trains and infrastructure rather than simply privatise the railways and watch them crumble ten years later.

If there was an :africa: emoticon I would so use it right now. I literally spent half my morning on the phone with the head of this country's rail system trying to get a straight answer as to why they are building a $300m USD rail route RIGHT NEXT TO THE ONE THAT ALREADY HAS EXISTED FOR YEARS BUT ABANDONED FOR SOME REASON -- actually not just abandoned, more like he is on record saying "I will not put a single penny into this existing track." :psyduck:

# ¿ Jul 19, 2011 17:35

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

rocket_man38 posted:

Well I just graduated with a BA in English but no clue what to do in life. (lay on the jokes I've heard them all.) Anyway, I enjoy gaming and it's a big passion for me(surprise) and would love to be an editor or use my writing/communicating skills in some other useful manner in the industry.(probably nothing)Should I just give up on this far fetched dream or is gaming journalism an actual thriving industry?

Edit: I should clarify, I DID read the OP but I have seen many ads from places like IGN looking for editors which is why I am wondering if things are changing?

You want a place to get started, I can get you a non-paying job at a fairly small but respected gaming blog. PM me if you are interested.

# ¿ Jul 22, 2011 20:34

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Please tell me this is not one of you guys.

Some kid on the IGDA writers list posted:

My name is <redacted, but very very white name>, and I'm a sophomore in high school. Since I was a kid, (...well a smaller kid) I always wanted to write stories for video games, for RPGs specifically. For the past two years, I've been just doing some research, y'know reading articles on the web, especially IGDA's "Breaking In" section, though it's a little outdated. My ultimate goal is to create my own game studio, with an RPG specialty. I'm sorta hoping to start a new school JRPG sort of vibe in video games. I have some "plans" to work my way there, like trying to land a job as an intern or QA Tester, but from what I see, those high in demand. Anyway, I'm here to basically keep up with the interesting topics and with you guys' permission, ask a few questions every now and then (I'd hate to be a bother with those, though). I hope I can learn a thing or two from you guys!

# ¿ Jul 26, 2011 13:56

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

I've met Tim before, and had some friendly chats with him, before the debacle really kicked off. He's not a stupid guy, so I don't understand why when it comes to law it's like his brain just turns off and he starts spewing out a river of nonsensical ideas. If I were representing someone with an ongoing appeal and that frequent litigation (ignoring the trademark trolling aspects of what he has done), I would be lecturing the poo poo out of my client to keep their mouth shut -- at the rate that he does it, I would simply fire them. It's not worth it.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2011 15:05

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Attn: Riot Games goons. I've got a friend applying to your company that I want to put in a recommendation for. If that might be relevant to you, please let me know (PM, or email swatjester at gmail dot com).

FreakyZoid posted:

How is that kid on the IGDA mailing list? How as a game developer am I going to find that kind of unfiltered noise useful?

Open lists, any IGDA member can join the SIGs. The writer's SIG list is very open and welcoming to newbs -- perhaps too welcoming. They won't tell people what they need to hear, which is sad because that's a particular field that is already difficult to find anything remotely resembling steady work, and the freelance work is becoming harder and harder to come by.

On the other hand, some of my most useful relationships in the industry have come from the writers list, and I respect the "regulars" on that list greatly.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2011 17:50

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Also Shalinor: this may be relevant to your iOS discussion from earlier.

I'm curious about what methodology they used to get a 3.5M user sample size (not implying anything faulty, I just haven't looked too deeply into whether they had a contract with Apple to get that kind of data -- seems like there could be privacy concerns involved. I don't want even anonymized reports of my spending going to anyone except Apple, and I certainly don't want that data being shared).

# ¿ Jul 26, 2011 17:55

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Same kid from the IGDA list posted:

Oh, I'm actually using RPG Maker VX for a project I'm working on. It's a really great software, easy to use and I especially love it because it allows you to customize nearly everything. Not to mention the huge amount of resources for it on many community websites. Though, Neverwinter Nights sounds great, I've been dying to try something like that in 3D. Thank you everyone for the warm welcomes! I'll be sure to share the game with you all when I finish, which will probably be a while

.......

# ¿ Jul 26, 2011 20:10

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

GetWellGamers posted:

I can't help but feel for the kid, really. Which IGDA board is this? I might want to sign on and just try to steer him on a better path...

Writers SIG but you'd be wasting your time. I sent him a response that was actually helpful and he didn't seem to really understand. Lots of enthusiasm, not much maturity. About what you'd expect from someone in 10th grade. If he were a freshman in college, or starting college and looking at game design schools, I'd say go for it, but eh.

# ¿ Jul 27, 2011 06:26

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

M4rk posted:

You missed the siren at the end required to grab a goon's attention, I added one for 'ya. :l

Hope your friend didn't want any of the fifteen positions I applied for.

(Just joking.)

Why can't recruiters be more like this guy? I swear they get the best applications but toss 'em just out.

No idea, she already interviewed apparently. She's coming from Disney, I can't remember if it is their MMOG division or somewhere else game-design related, so she ought to have a pretty good shot on her own (and is quite talented). But I figured I'd put a word in as well if I could.

# ¿ Jul 27, 2011 06:29

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Shalinor: I sent you a PM with a contact for the female developers thing.

# ¿ Jul 28, 2011 08:33

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Imajus posted:

lol, that's like saying you're in the industry when you work part time at gamestop

Game Jobs Megathread #3: No, working at Gamestop is NOT "in the industry."

(though I seem to recall that either this was a thread title in the past, or we just used that line a lot.)

# ¿ Jul 28, 2011 19:33

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Shalinor posted:

This is really the issue, and isn't one most want to hear. There isn't a grave social injustice being done to female developers in the present market, it's just that there are few of us period in the engineering/etc side of the industry, which makes us a curiosity. It'd be like a Caucasian getting a job in India as a tech support guy - you're probably going to be notable in a lineup of your coworkers, and culturally, you might find a lot of what they do offensive or otherwise objectionable, even though it's typical for their culture.

Amrosorma posted:

Being a white guy in India is a very different experience than being a woman in a historically and currently male-dominated industry though. A better example would be like being a black person in an i-banking job.

Not that I know what being a woman is like, but as a white guy in East Africa, I think it's probably a good comparison. I'm stared at all day, constant whisperings, people either treat you with reverence or contempt (I would kill for some apathy.)

Leif. fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Jul 29, 2011

# ¿ Jul 29, 2011 07:23

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Black Eagle posted:

This is false. An industry is a commercial ecosystem -- economic inputs and outputs. GameStop is a retailer, otherwise known as a distributor. Distribution is very much a part of the business of video games. As such, if you work at GameStop, you work in the retailing segment of the industry. The phrase "in the industry" does not strictly mean that you work at either a developer or a publisher. The phrase "in the industry" does not strictly mean that you only develop or publish AAA games. The phrase "in the industry" also does not strictly mean that you are an artist, designer, programmer, musician, or other creative professional. Such ideas are actually quite harmful to the professional community.

I utterly disagree. GameStop is a distributor, and if one works for GameStop in a corporate capacity, I would consider them in the industry. However, working a menial retail labor job (note: I was an EB associate for a few years back in the day) has nothing substantially to do with the actual industry. You push a product. You don't have anything to do with the creation of that product. You don't have anything to do with the decisions on how that product is distributed. You are simply told "Here, sell this." It is a process that is facing essentially pure automation from the digital distribution model. Compare Steam to Gamestop. At the corporate levels, someone who works for either is clearly involved with determining how distribution will be handled. But Steam has been able to almost entirely cut out the retail component because it requires little to no actual human input.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2011 07:27

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 04:23

Leif.: Mar 27, 2005; Son of the Defender
Formerly Diplomaticus/SWATJester

Black Eagle posted:

For a job seeker with point-of-sales experience � which involves logistics (e.g., purchasing, inventory control)

Which is why I differentiate corporate vs. sales associate. The latter almost uniformly have no control over any of the above. Not sure when the last time you worked at an EB/Gamestop was, but you generally don't get to control any of those things. It all comes down from their corporate management. Store managers have some very minor influence on what comes in, but even then, most of the decisions come from the regional level or higher (at which point, I would begin to start weighing their argument of being "industry".) And this is without even touching the fact that a huge number of those sales associates have no idea what they are talking about involving games -- it is very common for an associate to extoll the virtues of a game they have never played or never even reviewed, for the purpose of making a sale. That kind of false marketing is common in the retail industry, because that's where those jobs truly lie.

By your train of logic, an unemployed gamer is "in the industry" if he is whiteknights a game on an internet forum.

Look at it another way. If you had two otherwise identical applicants at a gamestop; one of them has worked retail in the mall for 20 years and is familiar with POS/cash registers, store opening/closing procedures but has never played a video game in his life; and the other has been coding game engines for 20 years but has never sold a thing in his life, who do you think is better qualified to be the sales associate (hint: it's the first one.)

# ¿ Jul 29, 2011 09:56

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Game Jobs Megathread: Wear clean underwear to avoid the smellz.

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