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Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Pope Guilty posted:

I'm a heterosexual meat-eater and I'd probably running screaming from a liver with a vagina, too.

Maybe "raw liver with a vagina" is what Myers calls his wife in the sack?

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Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Bubbacub posted:

Yes, the only reason poor people aren't rich is because they aren't willing to work 14 to 16 hours a day.

This is true in a way, actually. If they'd worked willingly that implies they could choose to say no, and thus in order to make them work that much they'd have to be drat well compensated. The problem is that they unwillingly work ridiculous hours.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Well he got the average intellect thing about right.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
When did Chavez become a dictator anyway?

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

trandorian posted:

It's still incredibly stupid to shut down tv stations for being mean to you. TV reporters didn't execute any coups, they just fuckin reported on them.

Actually they were an integral part of the coup. Selective reporting about events both before the coup (about who was shooting at whom) and during the coup (who controlled the palace, Chavez not having resigned), was a large factor in the initial succes of the coup. On top that they were generally in bed with the conspirators of the coup, all of this makes them complicit in the deaths caused by that coup, as well as the subversion of the democratic process and constitution of Venezuela. They didn't "just report on things", they manipulated and created the news, orders of magnitude more than even Fox News or similar do in the US.

Seriously watch The Revolution Will Not Be Televised.

Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Oct 3, 2011

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
I don't understand why Friedman is still allowed to write. It's amazing how consistently incoherent that man is.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

ts12 posted:

Also Orange Devil I think Milton has been dead for like 6 years so the socialists won I guess

Unfortunately Thomas still proliferates.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

It's amazing to me how hard the right wing media seems to be pushing the "OWS is anti banker, and therefore, anti semitic" angle.

I love how that is actually anti-semitic as hell.

ts12 posted:

They are both bad people with bad ideas

Thomas Friedman doesn't really have ideas beyond "suck on this" though.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Why bother with justice if it gets in the way of political expedience?

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
^^^
Lucky ducky.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

quote:

Frank Miller

I loving knew 300 was a racist and fascist piece of poo poo. But no, people had to defend that crap, talk about artistic license and that I was reading too much into it. I need to go find these idiots who defended that crap and rub this in their faces.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Helsing posted:

Now The Dark Knight, by contrast, I would argue comes a lot closer to fitting the bill for actual fascist apologism, though even there we'd be stretching the definition a bit. Which is ironic, given that The Dark Knight was a much better movie.

This made me really curious. Could you elaborate on this point? Vigilantism, violating rights to protect from terrorists, maybe even torture apologism (although it does fail badly in the movie), I could see those. But fascism? I really don't see that in The Dark Knight. It's more Boondock Saints than Triumph of Will.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Helsing posted:

Well, like I said, its still a bit of a stretch, and as with the fascism parallels in 300, many of these are common elements in any traditional story about a hero overcoming all the odds through violence. That having been said, I'll lay out my reasoning:

Its a movie in which democracy fails, the people need to be lied to for their own good, superhuman individuals are required to protect us, and our enemies cannot be reasoned with and must be destroyed with overwhelming force. The setting is a society riven by crime and sunk into perpetual economic crisis and stagnation (historically fascism always involves a sense of major social crisis). The major difference would be that nothing in the movie can really be seen as advocating a powerful state.

Ultimatly its the obsession with Batman and the Joker being in a class of themselves (despite not having actual superpowers or mutations) and the persistent themes of necessary illusions and myths guiding the direction of society (i.e. our District Attorny went nuts, rather than tell people this socially dangerous fact we'll just turn him into a fake martyr!), set against a backdrop of social crisis.

Hmm I see where you're coming from but I don't entirely agree.

I don't see that democracy failed in The Dark Knight so much as that those who came into power in a certain representative democracy (based on the US model) decided that they needed to violate people's right and lie to them and withhold information etc for their own good. I don't think it follows that this was actually necessary, it's just what they chose to do. There's a parallel here with the US government. If anything it shows that there never was quite as much democracy as those with power would like the people to believe.

The enemy that can not be reasoned with and must be destroyed I'll grant you, that's certainly a narrative that fits into justifying fascism. On the other hand, Batman isn't portrayed as unambiguously good either, and if anyone in the movie is a fascist, it'd be him. Which is certainly interesting, in light of him being the biggest capitalist around and his relationship with fascism. So while the movie doesn't really endorse the fascist character in this way, I do have to grant you that it doesn't spend any time even hinting that there might also be another way, and in fact does seem to say this is the only way because we, the audience, are led to believe that the Joker really can not be dealt with in any other way. On the other hand, as you say, the Joker doesn't actually have superpowers. He's just mentally ill. And if we think about it like that, we could conclude for ourselves that overwhelming violence might not be the best way to deal with our dangerous mentally ill.

Edit:

About the powerful state, doesn't Batman exist because the state isn't powerful enough?

Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Nov 20, 2011

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
^^^

Also see Einstein.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

redmercer posted:

Seriously, find me someone who invokes Adam Smith and also advocates for basic income for everyone.

Friedman?

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

quote:

This shouldn’t be considered a freedom of speech. It is just dangerous. How about our freedom from hearing their garbage and amplified filthy rap music?

This totally should be the 28th amendment.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

King Dopplepopolos posted:

He sounds like such a loving child. All I could hear is, "It's OUR toy, and if you get to play with it, then it must be stupid and lame! WAH!"

Also, where do they get this slippery slope bullshit? IIRC, it doesn't lead to much of anything else in any country or state where it's allowed, but they always bring it up.

Well, we've had gay marriage here in the Netherlands for years now and as a result I'm currently married to my sister, our dog and the coffeetable. I'm also afraid of being involuntarily euthanised, which happens all the time according to American presidential candidate Santorum.

Oh wait a second, none of that is true.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
College newspapers are lovely, full stop.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Wow, he links the murder by a radical Muslim of Theo van Gogh to hospitals performing euthanisia on babies born with horrible defects.

Ignorant rear end in a top hat doesn't entirely cover the load. It also needs some disingenuous gently caress.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Mr Interweb posted:

1. Right, because when people think of Hitler, the first thing that comes to mind is UHC.
2. Even if they did, Hitler didn't come up with UHC, Germany had it since the days of Bismarck, iirc.
3. Furthermore, I wonder if this person realizes that German STILL has UHC! :psyduck:

Bismarck actually implemented many social safety nets and such specifically because he figured it was better to give the poor something to lose than be faced with a large mass of people with nothing to lose and everything to gain who just might decide that the country wasn't working out very well for them and if nobody was going to give them the means to survival they were going to take it.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

BioEnchanted posted:

Wow, that's fairly nice in an incredibly evil way... How do you manage to pervert CHARITY of all things?

Charity is inherently, perhaps not evil, but certainly an affront to the dignity of humanity and also a way to cover up societies ugly truths. See this RSA Animate video featuring Zizek for a good explanation.

That said, I wouldn't call a state program guaranteeing a certain quality of life charity.

Anyway, Bismarck founded the very foundation of the welfare state, and indeed every welfare state is based upon the model he introduced, specifically to undermine the appeal of the socialists/communists (pretty much synonyms at the time). That's why it's a little funny when ignorant Americans claim European welfare states are socialism.

Edit:
Also, the welfare state helped European industry compete with America by giving European workers a reason not to immigrate, the US ofcourse not having a welfare state, one could take his chances in America, or stay relatively secure in Europe. The reason the US didn't have one and hasn't had a welfare state in anyway comparable to the European ones up until today is because in the US there was a labour shortage and a frontier, so American workers had a lot of leverage against their bosses. Quitting and just getting a different job or simply quitting and starting your own farm in some newly claimed territory were options open to American workers that would really hurt the bosses, as workers weren't nearly as easy to replace as in Europe. This all worked very well until the late 70s, early 80s, when the labour shortage turned into a labour surplus, partially due to demographic reasons, partially due to women entering the workplace, at which point the US middle class and the American Dream it represented started to seriously go to poo poo. Ofcourse, now that everywhere else is poo poo too, European industries don't need that welfare state anymore to keep their labour from packing their bags and leaving, and thus since the late 70s, early 80s, we've suddenly lost our ability to afford said welfare state, and thus it too, has been rapidly going to poo poo.

This also explains why older people in the US have trouble really understanding the situation of younger people today. "Just get a job" held true for many generations in the US, and only recently has become an absurd thing to say to an angry unemployed person.

Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Apr 8, 2012

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Strudel Man posted:

...is he criticizing ethical purchasing decisions? Like, he gives the example of Starbucks advertising that it buys fair trade beans, and says that this is "cultural capitalism at its purest," that you "buy your redemption from being only a consumerist."

And then he goes on to quote Oscar Wilde, and talks about handing out bread to people, short-term cures. But how on earth does fair trade constitute an example of this?

Fair trade is still based on the capitalist model of exploitation of labour. If you feel the RSA Animate video doesn't go in depth enough, you can watch the full lecture the RSA Animate video is based off here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvakA-DF6Hc

Or read the book: http://www.amazon.com/First-As-Tragedy-Then-Farce/dp/1844674282

quote:

There's also a certain hypocrisy I've always seen in the broader line of criticism (that charity only sustains the present state of affairs), which is that cutting off charity in the hopes of provoking some utopian rebellion would unquestionably result in great short-term suffering and has no guarantee of actually producing a situation any better than the one we started out with.

This is why to my knowledge nobody advocates cutting off charity in order to provoke rebellion, let alone any kind of utopia. Zizek is explicitly not utopian, by the way.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Strudel Man posted:

Ethical living isn't possible? :raise:

Depends on ones point of view. You could argue living in an anarcho-primitivist commune is ethical living, although you're still knowingly not actually helping the billions in poverty, so you could argue it isn't as well.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Sure it would be nice if we could stop treating other human beings as property, but our whole economy depends on it and would collapse. Let's be realists here.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

King Dopplepopolos posted:

Thank you, this is the kind of response I was hoping for. It sounds like what you're talking about is a trade gap, and that is a serious problem, one that even free-market fundamentalists (which I am not) should be worried about. Frankly, I don't know what the long-term solution is. But Armyman's suggestions seem decent at first glance.

Unfortunately once you move past that first glance you once again end up in Marxist theories and the necessity of abolishing capitalism.

Ah, such is life.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Breaking news: very few people will read your dissertation.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Bruce Leroy posted:

Wouldn't this be good for all jobs? Wouldn't you want to be able to keep your job while someone else in your company and/or from your union is investigating a charge made against you by your boss, coworker, or customer?

Show me where in the Constitution it says that you are innocent until found guilty when accused by a corporation of not being a perfect worker drone?

Can't do it can you? That's right, that's because the Founders knew that the only threat to liberty is from big government, whereas corporations are forced to serve the interests of the common man through a little thing I like to call the market. Now kneel down before your corporate overlords and pray to the market and its prophet, Ronald Reagan.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Goatman Sacks posted:

I've always found a good measure of someone is who they think was the bad guy in "A Few Good Men"

Wait so I can see how you could think Jack Nicholson isn't the bad guy due to you being an authoritarian idiot. But errr, who exactly do these people think was the bad guy? Tom Cruise?

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Glitterbomber posted:

The monsters who dare to question our hero's actions, yea.

Do these people reckon Denzel Washington is a villian in Under Siege as well?

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

VideoTapir posted:

"The Siege." "Under Siege" was the Stephen Segal Die-Hard-On-A-Boat movie.

I thought it was Die-Hard-On-A-Train? Is that 2? Either way, I mix these titles up.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Is Acorn ever going to go away?

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
The whole ACORN affair is straight up class warfare, but it went the right way for republicans so it's never framed as such.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

VanSandman posted:

I may be mistaken, but I believe it is similar in cases of infidelity, where a cheater will accuse and suspect their partner of cheating because it is what they are doing so surely the other person must be doing it too.

I've found this to be a pretty general truth. If someone accuses someone else of doing something really off the wall or ridiculous and doesn't have overwhelming evidence, it's really likely that it is something the accuser him/herself does or has done.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Why do I get that dreadful feeling that the author thinks that Dirty Harry is a hero or morally good character?

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

LP97S posted:

It's Ted Nugent, in his opinion the guy shooting people is always the good guy. People seem to ignore the very ending of Dirty Harry a lot.

Isn't it earlier in the film where he does a bunch of illegal poo poo like searches causing the killer to go free while not actually saving anyone with it? Like, the entire ending of the film wouldn't have happened if only he stuck to the book and for all his torture and loose cannon poo poo, it doesn't save anyone but only endangers more people?

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!
Even when making fun of this guy, people defer to his authority. The last tweet mentions "officer Wawra" rather than "mister Wawra". You North-Americans are weird.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

HMDK posted:

I think it's ingrained in some people.
The few times I've talked to danish officers of the law, I didn't start adressing them as such. I asked for names like they did of me. Hell, should I ever meet our queen I think I would be weirded out and awkward, sure, but the last thing I'd call her is "Your Majesty!".

Yeah same here. If I ever meet the Dutch queen I sure hope she doesn't expect pleasantries beyond those accorded to the average person.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Bruce Leroy posted:

That hat rules and she seems much warmer in that picture than in any footage or pictures I've ever seen of other royalty like Queen Elizabeth II.

Eh, people really like her but in politics she has a reputation of being a real hardass who wants to be kept up to date on many of the goings on in the country's politics. She's way too involved with it for a democracy, but people don't care. Her son the heir apparent is currently lobbying hard to get the 2028 Olympics to the Netherlands :psyduck:

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

colonelslime posted:

And they managed to sell this idea to the rest of the planet.

They sold it to the wealthy and the powerful the world over, who then paid people to repeat that bullshit over and over in the media and the schools, all for their own benefit.

Easiest. Sell. Ever.

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Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

yulia tymotebow posted:

I need to be really careful which ones I post because we get a really cringe worthy LttE every other day.

Do these people realize what an amendment is? If this poo poo was so important and these men so wise, why wasn't it in the original document?

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