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ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Jesus christ, Thy Flesh Consumed is :gonk:

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ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Funkmaster General posted:

The Hexen/Heretic series is still one of my all-time favorites for the atmosphere/universe alone.

I do enjoy Heretic, but I was never really able to get in to Hexen. Some cool ideas with the hubs and whatnot, but I never found it all that fun to actually play, because the weapon selection is so limited - you spend most of the game using the same attack, or the same two attacks, over and over. Contrast Heretic, which is unstinting with the ammo for everything, or even Doom, which - so far - seems to encourage shotgun use over everything else, but at least gives you five other weapons and enough ammo to use them occasionally.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Vertigus posted:

iPad owners must close Marathon and launch a separate "settings" program if they wish to turn the music volume down.

That's actually not too different from how "normal" Aleph One works - you have to quit to the main menu to change any settings, including sound volume or controls. :sigh:

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


I'm considering turning it down to Hey, Not Too Rough for Thy Flesh Consumed; I'm having more trouble with the first level in that than I did with the last few levels in Inferno.

Mak0rz posted:

The canon is that you die and are sent to purgatory (The Shores of Hell) if I remember correct. What's odd about this scene is that it's, well, scripted, and I can't recall anything else in Doom like this.

It fades to black before you die. I'm pretty sure the canon is that you get ambushed and lose most of your gear (which explains why you start tSoH with just a pistol). You don't need to be "sent" anywhere, since you end KDitD by stepping into the Phobos end of the Phobos <-> Deimos teleporter.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Mr_Person posted:

What I find odd about it is that Purgatory somehow ends up being on Deimos. Was it always there, or is the whole "dying and going to hell" thing not working correctly due to the invasion and Doomguy just really lucks out?

As mentioned earlier, I'm pretty sure you don't die and I know you don't go to purgatory (what with starting the next episode in Hell and all).

When everything went to poo poo, Deimos was dragged into hell in its entirety. The reason everything went to poo poo is that the UAC was conducting experiments teleporting stuff between Phobos and Deimos. You end KDitD by stepping into the Phobos end of that teleporter, which spits you out on Deimos - now hovering over Hell itself. Purgatory is never mentioned or visited in the game.

vv Whether you die or not, I thought it was pretty clear that the reason you're on Deimos is that you teleported there; I'd also consider that evidence that you don't die, as otherwise you would wake up in Hell proper.

ToxicFrog fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Jul 19, 2011

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


THE HORSES rear end posted:

Rise of the Triad has a level of ingenuity that is far too rare nowadays. Doom and Marathon (and UUW) were impressive because they could run smoothly on home computers. Rise of the Triad is impressive because 90 degree walls and TCP/IP.

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say here.

co199 posted:

I love Call of Duty and Battlefield and they were innovative in their own way - Battlefield for the massive games, 32 on 32 or more...

I think Dynamix would like a word with you. :colbert:

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Finally finished Doom. It's kind of a low-effort game, really. There's no characters and next to no plot; the levels are abstract and never get any more interesting than "find key, use key on door", nor is there any attempt at coherence or consistency across levels; even the engine is primitive. All it has going for it is shooting a lot of demons in the face.

Fortunately, it does that last really, really well, with the result that it ends up being a lot of fun - especially with Brutal Doom installed.


Also, a special dose of ALL OF MY HATE goes out to Thy Flesh Consumed. Whoever thought that "most of the level is covered in lava, so you have to grab a hazard suit and do absolutely everything required before it wears off or the level becomes unwinnable, and then there's a Cyberdemon at the end" would be a good gimmick not just for a single level, but for an entire episode, deserves to be flogged.

moms pubis posted:

One of mine is in there so that's for drat sure.

The LP archive is blind to quality; all that is required is that the LP be completed on the Something Awful forums, and that someone contact the Archive and point it out.

And that it not be a Dwarf Fortress LP, for some reason.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Sombrerotron posted:

Yeah it's pretty disappointing for a shareware shooter from 1993, really.

Yeah, it kind of is. Playing those games first is why I was originally so disappointed by Doom when I first played it back in 1999, and given those comparisons, yeah, I feel that calling it "low-effort" is pretty apt.

Since then, however, I've come to realize that sometimes, I don't care about setting or plot or characters or level design; I just want to shoot things. And at that, Doom excels.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


First of all, I'm not sure why the fact that it's shareware is even relevant. Should shareware games be held to a lower standard or something?

Secondly, of those games, three of them (Pathways and both Underworlds) predate Doom, and the other two came out less than a year later - just before and just after Doom II.

Finally, I'm not saying that they didn't put a lot of effort into the actual implementation of the game; I'm saying that it's a low-effort design. Tom Hall may have spent half a year writing the Doom Bible, but in the end none of that got used; they basically said "gently caress it, let's do Wolfenstein 3d again except better".

While other developers were experimenting with actual storylines and characters, sophisticated rendering engines, gameplay elements more complex - and interesting - than pure shooting, and levels that actually resemble places, Id decided to reprise a design document that was basically "there is a player, there is an exit, there are a shitload of monsters between the player and the exit, repeat 24 times".

The fact that it was wildly successful and is still fun today does not change the fact that it's a remarkably lazy design. They just implemented it really well.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Mak0rz posted:

ToxicFrog, you might want to read this article and figure out why your comparing of Doom to System Shock and Ultima don't really hold any ground. How a game looks and behaves is only part of the formula. The other is how it feels.

I've read that article before, actually. If you want to talk "feel" rather than technical merits, you might want to look at Pathways into Darkness and Marathon, which I also compared it to. Marathon has exactly the same sort of fast-paced, agility-as-defence shooting going on; indeed, many of the sections in that article would apply equally well to Marathon. Unlike Doom, however, it manages to incorporate a storyline as well, and - mostly starting in Marathon 2 - levels with a major sense of place without sacrificing playability.

As for Pathways, it has a very different feel - primarily due to the slow movement speed of everything, including enemy projectiles - but a similar concept, and in fact if you activate the TURBO code it feels surprisingly like Doom. Except, of course, for the three plot threads to piece together, the cool puzzles, and the conversations with dead Nazis.

Sombrerotron posted:

Considering that shareware games were low-budget affairs by nature, and that most of them tended to be either unambitious or poorly executed (if not both), I believe it would be generally unreasonable to expect them to live up to the standards set by developers of retail games. However, I will concede that id may have had both the financial and material means to match those of a team like Origin's; I don't really know.

Id's previous releases, Wolfenstein 3d and Commander Keen, had been record-settingly successful; they went with a shareware model for Doom because it had been so insanely profitable for them with Wolf3d. By the time work on Doom started, they had the kind of budget that Bungie and Looking Glass could only dream of. Don't know about Origin, but they had basically no involvement in UUW or Shock in any case.

quote:

I'm not so sure if you can just blame it on "laziness". The impression I have is that Carmack (and some others at id) thought the game would be better without implementing all sorts of elaborate ideas on plot and gameplay mechanics, and simply got his way in the end. Part of it may have been an unwillingness to go through all that trouble, but it seems to me that it was just as much a deliberate design choice. Consider also how Gabe Newell has argued against the kind of non-linearity and wealth of explorational content of, say, Deus Ex, in favour of a more linear but visceral approach in order to guarantee that the average player - who isn't going to endlessly replay a game - gets the most bang for his buck. Whether that's indeed a better approach is debatable, but it's not necessarily one motivated by laziness.

Fair enough; I concede the point. (I have to say that I disagree vehemently with both Newell and Carmack on this, though.)

quote:

Regarding the technology, I don't think you're being fair to id if you are suggesting that they weren't experimenting with a sophisticated rendering engine. When Doom came out, it had the most advanced 2.5D engine around, and a very efficient one at that. Moreover, it enabled map designs and a kind of mechanics that simply weren't possible (or at least not practical) on the polygonal UU engine. Doom's tremendous success, I believe, is as much the result of its technology as its gameplay.

And then Marathon came along a year later with an engine that kicked the poo poo out of Doom's, and was completely forgotten because it wasn't released on PC. :sigh:

You're right, though. You could probably make a run-and-gun shooter in the UUW engine (and you can definitely make one in Shock), but limitations in how the map is constructed wouldn't give the level designers nearly as much freedom in overall structure. (The tradeoff is that you can include a lot more fine detail, but the worth of this is dubious if the player is just going to fire a rocket into it while running past at 80kph.) The Marathon engine is a lot more powerful, but didn't exist at the time. When you put it that way, I can't really fault them for making an upgraded version of Carmack's "faster texture mapper" rather than making Quake a few years early.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Jblade posted:

So, uh, this talk about story and Doom made me check up on the Doom novels I remember hearing about several times in the past. Wikipedia has a synopsis of the plot of the series on it's page.

:stare:

Book 1 sounds like about what I'd expect a novelization of Doom to be, but by book 3 I just don't don't know what the gently caress.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Sombrerotron posted:

All right, never mind the shareware connection then. And I meant Looking Glass Studios, of course; don't know why I was thinking of Origin. Sleep deprivation, probably. :|

It's not an unreasonable mistake to make; Origin made everything else with "Ultima" in the title, and published Looking Glass's early stuff. System Shock and both UUW games have Origin Systems splash screens along with the Looking Glass (or, in the latter case, Blue Sky) ones.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Rather Dashing posted:

I play most custom wads on Hurt me Plenty. :ohdear: I've completed the two Dooms on UV but it seems that most custom levels are a touch harder and usually have me moving along at a snail's pace, quick loading thousands of times.

Is it just me or is there a big leap in difficulty between HMP and UV? I blasted through all of Doom on HMP without much trouble*, but on UV I die four or five times on E1M1.

* Except Thy Flesh Consumed

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


DanTheFryingPan posted:

And the map list, use with the "MAP #" command. Using this, you will spawn with just the shotgun and 25 shells, so good luck.

If I remember my Quake correctly, changelevel # will change maps without losing your current inventory, too.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


superh posted:

Yet another reason to love brutal doom is that (for me at least, on Ultra Violence) the Cyberdemon isn't immobile and he gets to come right out. Apparently he can step up over the boundary there, so telefragging isn't possible. It was a hell of a fight! :)

He's still there (and still mobile) on Hurt Me Plenty, too. I ended up just running past him.

God I hate that episode. I'm six levels into Doom 2 now and liking it a lot more than Thy Flesh Consumed.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


2ndclasscitizen posted:

There was a great HL mod I had back in the day, pretty much all it did was give you all the Counter Strike weapons and turned health/charger stations into weapon dispensers in singleplayer. hosed if I can remember what it was called, but it was great fun because IIRC the CS weapon raped everything.

Counter-Life. It was completely ridiculous because the CS weapons are much more powerful than the normal HL ones, and it basically replaced every ammo or weapon pickup with $100, letting you become an unstoppable god by On A Rail.

I had a lot of fun with that mod, but Rocket Crowbar is still better.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Man, rats. That brings back memories. Rats and zero-gravity killbox.

The more I reminisce about it the more I miss the entertainingly unrealistic weapons and high-speed deathmatch of Half-Life. CS: Source and Battlefield BC2 are all well and good, but sometimes I want to just run around with a wall-penetrating laser cannon and a bucket of exploding alien attack vermin, you know?

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


HardDisk posted:

Just wait until you get to the city levels. Or monster condo.

Just played MAP12 through MAP16 :suicide:

At some point, someone played The Factory, or Downtown, and said "yes, this is fun, let's ship it".

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Chinook posted:

Yeah, that happens in a lot of games for some reason (Z-axis +, Z-axis -), but sometimes they still work as inputs.

That's because they are axes; they're analog inputs and some games (such as Alpha Protocol) use them as such. Whether they work as buttons as well depends on whether the game you're playing is willing to use axis movements as button-style inputs, or whether it only accepts true buttons.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Hmm. Doom 2 seems to be picking up a fair bit now that it's out of the terrible city levels. I'm glad I pushed through those. Let's see what's next.
pre:
The Catacombs: finished
Entering: Barrels o'Fun
:wtc:

Edit:

pre:
Entering: The Chasm
:wtc::wtc::wtc:

ToxicFrog fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Aug 3, 2011

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Alpha3KV posted:

If you want the level to be really fun, you should play it with The Blessed Engine :q:
Speaking of which, I can't seem to get its silly custom death animations to work. Does anybody know how to do that?

I should probably try TBE sometime. I remember reading it back in the day - it's by Doug the Eagle, the same guy as The Hacker's Guide to Sin and similar works for Ultima, Morrowind, Thief, and Arx Fatalis - but I never actually tried it out.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Minidust posted:

Steam apparently tweaked something today so that your Doom playtime can actually be tracked. It also forces a direct DOS Box launch now. :downs:

So I'll just be launching GZDoom manually for the rest of my Doom 1 playthrough, but I'll miss the neat little Steam front end for everything. Oh well.

You can always add gzDoom as a "non-Steam game" to Steam, which will get you the overlay and whatnot.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Olivil posted:

Aside from the obvious Half-Life, glQuake, Quake II, Unreal Gold, Serious Sam and Deus Ex, do you have any suggestions of FPS from that era? Basically anything from Windows 95 to 2001-2002. I'm also taking suggestions for the DOS PC. :)

Most of the stuff I was going to recommend (NOLF, System Shock and Thief series), has already been listed, but here's two more:

Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri - singleplayer Tribes precursor, developed by Looking Glass
Descent - a 6DOF FPS in zero gravity

Also, if you're willing to run some of these games on a newer system, there's D2X-XL for Descent 1 and 2 (which probably won't run on era-appropriate hardware) and the high-resolution patch for System Shock 1 (which definitely won't).

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Sombrerotron posted:

I don't believe Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight has been mentioned yet. To paraphrase: it may not look like much, but it's got it where it counts, kid. Really good - huge - level design, 'classic' FPS mechanics (i.e. fast movement, twitch-aiming), character customisation, a storyline that branches into a Light and Dark Side endgame, quality hammy FMV cutscenes, and of course Jedi 'n poo poo before all that stuff became completely daft and boring. Challenging, atmospheric, and definitely worth the time of any FPS enthusiast.

I have to say that Jedi Knight really suffers from having played Jedi Knight 2 first. The gunplay is ok, but the lightsaber combat feels incredibly awkward and janky. Combine that with the way Force Speed works and most lightsaber duels turn into you and your opponent flying across the room at uncontrollable speed, flailing your lightsabers at each as you go past and praying. Saber combat in JK2 is much more controllable and satisfying (and looks drat good, too).

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


pumpinglemma posted:

Gah. I've just played through Doom with Brutal Doom, loved it, and now I'm trying to get hold of Doom 2. The hitch is that I'm on Linux, and as far as I know Doom 2 is only available through this new-fangled Steam thingamajig. It seems to want me to install software that doesn't work on Linux before it will let me buy things. Is there a way I can just give someone money and get the IWAD in exchange? This shouldn't be hard. :(

Steam runs fine in Wine; furthermore, if your distro has PlayOnLinux in the repositories (it should), that has a canned Steam config - which means it will automatically handle downloading and installing Steam, a Steam-friendly wine version, and all of the dependencies.

Do that, buy and install Doom 2, grab the IWADs from the Steam install directory.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


pumpinglemma posted:

Perfect - I can't believe I'd never heard of PlayOnLinux before now!

It's kind of unpolished, but even in its current state it's drat useful. I've just started using it for everything; even when it doesn't have a canned config, its ability to manage multiple wine versions and keep different windows programs in different wineroots makes it useful.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Essobie posted:

Descent used AZSD by default (and that was actually what I used right before someone tri-chorded around me in my first duel, taught me about WASD, and that was when I started to become "good at video games"). It is important to note that even back then I realized that while WASD was a better idea than AZSD or certainly arrow keys, ESDF was superior in every single way, so THAT is what I used.

I find ESDF awkward; it leaves Z too close for comfort, but shift too far away. ESDF may give you more keys to work with (which, in my experience, most games don't actually need), but WASD (and, to a lesser extent, SZXC) are more comfortable.

quote:

Of course, Tribes 2 was pretty garbage

gently caress you say? My second will contact you to arrange the terms of our duel. Bring your spinfusor. :colbert:

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


emoticon posted:

Half-Life pretty much ruined it for everybody because after that a developer could no longer just throw together a random monkey cheese collection of levels starring a winking protagonist like Duke Nukem anymore. This is why modern game no longer have fun theme levels like supermarkets and amusement parks or nonsensical weapons like the shrink ray--it wouldn't make sense in the story.

Half-Life is the worst thing to happen to video games in other words.

You're blaming that on Half-Life 1? Seriously? A game where you move around at Quake speed, laying tripmines for soldiers, shooting down floating psychic aliens with a Ghostbusters proton pack, and dueling acrobatic assassins using a severed alien arm that shoots angry bees?

Yeah, it has some degree of continuity and narrative to the levels - which I happen to like - but it also had the high-speed gameplay and array of crazy, interesting weapons, a trend that Op4 continued. gently caress, HL deathmatch is distinguishable from Quake deathmatch only by the weapon selection.

Half-Life 2, on the other hand...it was ok, but I really dislike how they removed all of the weapons from HL1 that were remotely interesting and replaced them with the Gravity Gun and nothing else.

YOURFRIEND posted:

I assume the games you find fun are the old FPS games which this thread is ostensibly about? Aren't those games all about jumping around really fast and killing things that die easily on reaction with a large variety of weapons?

Isn't that pretty much what Call of Duty is? I only played the free weekend of black ops but that's pretty much how it seemed to be to me. Which is why I hated it, but that's another point entirely.

That really isn't what Call of Duty is. There's no variation in weapons: you have your grenade, your knife, and everything else is a generic bulletary damage hose. There are variations in damage per shot, damage per second, accuracy, and the like, but fundamentally they are all "you point it at the enemy, it makes a noise and damage comes out", without even superficial differences in projectile type or the like.

Contrast this with earlier FPSes - Half-Life, Quake 2, and Descent come to mind, as they were among the first I played, but Blood and Duke3d would also be good to look at. In addition to the generic grenades and bullet hose weapons, HL1 has the aforementioned alien arm and proton pack, an energy beam that ignores walls and can be used to recoil-jump, exploding alien weasels, laser tripmines, detpacks, remote-guided missiles, and if you're playing with Op4, a lightning bug, an acid-spitting alien fish, and a gun that shoots teleporters. The weapon lists for other FPSes of the era are less extensive but no less varied.

Similarly, there's no variation among enemies in CoD and similar games - they're all faceless adult humans carrying one of the aforementioned generic bullet hoses. Odds are the final boss, if there is one, is the same except with more hitpoints. If you're lucky, there might be attack dogs or automatic turrets every few missions.

Meanwhile, HL1 has headcrabs, houndeyes, alien slaves, alien soldiers, alien controllers, human soldiers, ceiling barnacles, human assassins, the occasional snark nest, the Icthy, the Garg, a bunch of Op4-specific enemies and probably a few more that I'm forgetting. Each one is drastically different in appearance, behaviour, and attacks.


Reading this over again, goddamn, HL2 really was a step back. I'm all bummed out now.

Thinking on it some more, I think what happened is this. HL1 popularized continuous environments with a strong sense of versimilitude; even the alien levels feel like something that could exist somewhere, and there's a sensible transition from one level to the next. At the same time, it kept the weapons you used and enemies you fought nicely varied, and the levels, while continuous, still have a decent amount of variety in them.

Other developers (including, later, Valve themselves) then ran with this idea, but decided that reduced variation in environments should be matched by reduced variation in weapons and enemies - often to a much greater degree than the levels themselves.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Vintersorg posted:

Half Life 2 was bad? Is the sky purple in your universe? Jesus christ, what a terrible opinion.

Depends on how you're evaluating it. As a "classic-style" high-speed FPS it's terrible; the weapons are boring, the enemies are monotonous, the levels are mostly linear, there are lengthy sections of vehicle, dialogue, or scenesetting where you don't get to kill anything, you move way too slowly, ammo limits are far too low to make effective use of your weapons, and the final boss is a game of skeeball.

It's a good game on its own merits, and it was mindblowing in some ways when it first came out, but anyone who went into it expecting Quake or Doom or, gently caress, more Half-Life 1 gameplay (as opposed to more Half-Life 1 story), was bound to be disappointed.

This seems to be a recurring theme: a genre label gets overloaded to mean very different things, and then people get serious expectations mismatch. FPS these days can mean high-speed abstract shooter, or gritty realistic war sim, or hat simulator, or slow, atmospheric exploration game with occasional combat, or anything in between - and if FPS to you means one of these things in specific, picking up a new FPS that turns out to be one of the others is an unpleasant experience. Same thing happens with RPGs; you've got your dungeon crawls, your plot/character driven things, your JRPGs, your tactical combat simulators that happen to involve stats and levels. (Fun exercise: pick a JRPG from the late 90s and see how many reviews excoriated it for calling itself an "RPG" but not playing like Fallout, Wizardry, Ultima, or Might & Magic.)

Platypus Farm posted:

...and playing with the physics and all that kind of stuff was cool and new.

Maybe if you never played System Shock. :smug:

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Platypus Farm posted:

re: system shock - if you mean the first one, I tried to play it in like 1992 or whenever it came out, and it was already really hard to deal with the controls and terrible graphics. If you mean 2, I played the poo poo out of that one :)

I meant SS1, which did in fact have a rudimentary physics engine, including the ability to pick up and drop/throw items, recoil and knockback, stacking, moving a crate down the hall by bouncing human skulls off it...good times.

HL2's is, of course, much more detailed and sophisticated, but it was a bit nonplussing to see people raving about how you can pick up things and drop them again and even throw them and this has never been done before in an FPS and it's a revolution in gaming.

quote:

edit: although, again, system shock is one I keep trying to go back to. I still can't deal with it though. I tried system shock portable or whatever that source port was called, and it is still a brick wall for me. I can't penetrate the controls at all. The graphics aren't a big deal but the controls ruin it for me.

SS Portable is not a source port; it's the original game, packaged with some helpful utilities such as VDMSound and DOSBox and some fan patches. The source code for SS1 was never released. :( The closest we've seen is TSSHP, a fan-made remake of the engine based on reverse engineering, and that was never finished and has been dead for years.

That said, depending on what your problem with the UI is, there might be a solution:
- Need mouselook: the latest SS1 Portable comes with a fan-patch that adds toggleable mouselook.
- Can't cope with default keybinds: the same patch lets you remap the keyboard controls.
- Viewport too small: press '2'. The ugly borders will go away and the MFDs and other HUD elements will become transparent.
- Text unreadable: increase the resolution to 640x480 or 800x600.

Personally, I never had a problem with it; SZXC isn't that different from WASD, and looking around with the keyboard isn't too bad when you can still aim with the mouse.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


beanbrew posted:

The recent Half-life discussion has made me want to play through the singleplayer again, but I don't really feel like playing through it vanilla. Does anyone know of any mods that make it crazier? Something along the lines of Rocket Crowbar would be cool. :)

Other than Rocket Crowbar itself, you mean?

PS07 comes to mind, and there's another that's right on the edge of my mind but can't remember.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Fergus Mac Roich posted:

Hexen is rad. There's a straight homebrew port of it for the DS by a cool guy who used to work for Raven in the Jedi Outcast days.

edit: Heretic is just wizard doom with an inventory. Hexen is a little bit deeper and is still cool and you have it anyway so just play it dummy! and yes Hexen is a sequel to Heretic, but it became a thing of its own. Kinda like Jedi Knight is Dark Forces 2 but Jedi Outcast is Jedi Knight 2.

Heretic is just Wizard Doom, which is to say that it's unoriginal but fun.

Hexen could have been rad except that every level is a maze of switches, ending in another switch which might, if you're lucky, tell you which level it affected.

Oh, and each class has four weapons, one of which is missable and the other three of which are doled out on a "one weapon per episode" basis, making getting through the mazes a monotonous slog as you fight the same enemies with the same weapon over and over and over again.

I appreciate Raven's ambition in trying to make a class-based shooter with hubbed levels and cross-level puzzles, but given that the classes are boring, the levels lovely, and the puzzles all boil down to "flip a switch, then search every other level for the door it opened", ambition is all this game has going for it.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Xythar posted:

I mean, I know a lot of the advancements to Hexen's engine don't look that impressive in the context of today's games, but back in the day having things like the hub structure or actions in one level affecting another was really drat cool.

Oh, I'll grant that it's impressive - if you somehow made it to 1995 without playing anything by Looking Glass, anyways - it just isn't fun.

(I contend that even if Hexen's level design was balls-to-the-wall amazing, it would still be a tedious and boring game because of the tiny weapon selection and glacial pace of weapon distribution)

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Rather Dashing posted:

The bit that always sticks in my mind from Opfor was that sodding darkened sewer bit with the giant bug monster things. I must have died over a hundred times there.

It was developed by Gearbox so I'm not sure how much of it that Valve have included in their 'official' story of HL. I'm not generally a fan of Gearbox but Opfor was ok, apart from the aforementioned maddeningly frustrating moments.

As far as I recall, Valve hasn't come out and officially said it's canon, but they haven't contradicted it either.

That said, there's not much in Op4 that would really have an effect on the wider Half-Life setting, apart from Black Mesa being nuked and Adrian Shepard being put in stasis by the G-Man. We haven't seen any of the enemies from Op4 return, but then, we haven't seen snarks or controllers since HL1, either. Ditto the weapons - HL2 is missing all of the cool weapons from Op4, but it's also missing all of the cool weapons from HL1.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Obeast posted:

I have a couple quick questions regarding Descent. I got the game back when it was on sale on GOG and just really started playing it tonight using DXX-Rebirth. The game runs really well on my netbook (actually way way better than the DOSBox wrapper GOG uses), but the mouse feels really sluggish for turning. I did turn the in-game sensitivity all the way up, but it still feels like I have to move the mouse seven or eight times to do a 180 degree turn. Is there a way to make the mouse sensitivity even higher? Or, is there a better control scheme I should use that would make turning easier? I have mine setup in a regular-ish FPS fashion like so...

There's an upper limit on how fast your ship can turn regardless of whether you're using keyboard, mouse, or joystick - this helps keep mouse players from completely dominating multiplayer by turning a thousand times faster than everyone else. D2X-XL has an option to uncap turn speed (Controls->Mouselook), but I'm pretty sure it only applies in singleplayer. Don't know about DXX-Rebirth, but given that it's all about closely replicating the original experience (as opposed to XL's kitchen-sink design philosophy), it probably doesn't.

As for the actual controls, I found this to work well (in the original game, and before D2X-XL had the mouselook option):

code:
WASD - move forward/backward/left/right
Space - ascend
Shift - descend
QE - roll
ZX - yaw
RF - pitch
Mouse X - yaw
Mouse Y - pitch
This let me move easily along all three axes and aim with the mouse, while giving me ZXRF to hold down for wide turns.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Tippis posted:

Either way, I think it's interesting that, to this day — what? 16 years later? — properly controlling the full range of movement that Decent offers is a tricky thing to do without some pretty elaborate controllers. The optimal setup is still some kind of dual flightstick (or possibly joystick + keyboard, if you can live with on/off controls for movement), and finding sticks that allow for this is still as much of a hassle as all those years ago.

Or, you know, keyboard+mouse, which works just fine. At this point I've tried Descent keyboard-only, keyboard+joystick, dual-stick gamepad, and keyboard+mouse, and KB+M still works best.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Minidust posted:

Gonna give Brutal Doom a shot now that I'm ready for a Doom II playthrough. For original (Ultimate) Doom I had GZDoom being launched through Steam; is there a way to do this with Brutal Doom or do I have to do that icon dragging thing? It's not essential but I like Steam tracking my time and stuff.

I don't remember the details, but gzdoom has a config file where you can specify WADs to autoload (on both a global and per-iWAD basis). I have mine set up to automatically load Brutal Doom whenever Doom or Doom 2 is loaded.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


Minidust posted:

At the moment I'm just using the base Doom 2 wad, nothing fancy. I'm not sure if this is just not possible after Steam stopped using batch files for these games, but I was able to use the 2011 music wad for vanilla Doom 1 just fine via the Steam Launch Options.

Here's how you set it up in the config file.

Go to your gzDoom directory, and open the 'zdoom-$USERNAME.ini' file.

Look for the sections [Global.Autoload] and [$GAME.Autoload], and add Path= entries for all of the WADs/PK3s you want to load, in addition to the iWAD. For example, mine looks like this:

code:
[Global.Autoload]
Path=lights.pk3
Path=brightmaps.pk3

[Doom.Autoload]
Path=Upgrades/BrutalGZDoomV10b.pk3
Path=Upgrades/BrutalDoomRegeneration.pk3
Path=Upgrades/DHTP.pk3

[Doom1.Autoload]
Path=Upgrades/D2011MUS.wad

[Doom2.Autoload]
Path=Upgrades/DoomMetal.wad
Path=Upgrades/DoomMetal2.wad
So - when running any game, it'll load lights.pk3 and brightmaps.pk3 after the iWAD; when running any Doom game, it'll load Brutal Doom, BD Regeneration, and the high-res textures as well; and when running Doom 1 specifically, it'll load the 2011 soundtrack.

This works whether you're launching it through steam, through zdlsharp, or directly with drag and drop.

ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


^^ The GPL basically just says "if you release a modified version of this software, you also need to release the modified source code so that other people can learn from your modifications and modify it in turn". If you're just using an off-the-shelf AlephOne.exe, simply linking to the A1 site should be sufficient.

And yeah, A1 as a project is really unpolished and feature-light. The install process is kind of messy, there's no 3d renderer still, you have to exit the game to adjust the options...I love A1 for letting me actually play Marathon, but when you compare it to something like gzDoom or Darkplaces, it's just sad.

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ToxicFrog
Apr 26, 2008


^^ I'll see if I still have a copy lying around, but don't get your hopes up. E: nope, I've only got the Source version.

Kazvall posted:

Before I make an event posting for Half-Life mods, I'd like to throw out a list of mods I have game servers for, and the ones I don't. You guys help me decide what mods you want to play. I plan on playing for 2-3 hours, so we could have anywhere from 1-3 mods played depending on ones chosen.

Holy poo poo Wizard Wars! I'd completely forgotten about that mod. I'm not even sure that mod is what I'm remembering, but it sure sounds familiar.

E: just youtubed it and yeah, that's it. YOU HAVE THE ENEMY GRAIL!

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