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Essobie posted:If I remember correctly the non-QuakeWorld version was possible to start up as a loopback server (single player) but it was discontinued pretty early in the lifetime of the mod. I think if you wanted to play it locally now, you'd need to go the QuakeWorld route, start up a local server, and then connect to it with a client. I played QWTF in single player just fine, at least in Darkplaces. Just start up the mod and type in "map start". Beware that you can only selected your class every time you finish an episode. Speed running through levels as the Scout or Mingunning Ogres with the Heavy is a lot of fun. It makes me wish there was a mod that'd let you go through Half-Life 1 with the Team Fortress Classic classes or HL2 with the TF2 classes.
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Dec 18, 2011 03:40
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Here's something interesting recently released that's related to early FPS games: Way back in 1996ish, Micropose was working on a FPS based on X-COM called X-COM: Alliance. It got cancelled in 2002, but someone managed to get their hands on a beta dated around 1998 that uses Unreal Engine 1 and put it up for download: http://www.multiupload.com/9IS9KY2NFY I figure this would be interesting for anyone interested in cancelled early 3D FPSes or remember Alliance back in the day.
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Dec 26, 2011 22:53
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Sorry about the issue with the X-Com: Alliance beta thing earlier. Here's the solution to the "Insert CD" bug:quote:Extract to C:\Alliance or find CDPath in Unreal.ini and modify appropriately.
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Dec 27, 2011 11:12
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kmxexii posted:There are a lot of people credited to Daikatana's level design. The main four were Stevie Case and three other people I've never heard of. Then there's a host of people involved in "Additional Level Design", whatever that means. Some of the names should be familiar to classic Doom fans - John Anderson, Iikka Keranen, Chris Klie, and Sverre Kvernmo. IIRC the game went through a ton of level designers because Romero couldn't lead a gaming development team for poo poo. The first crew, John Anderson, Sverre, and the like created level layouts for quite a few of the levels, some of which survived in the final version. John Anderson in particular had some pretty neat Greece levels (like a Greek palace) that could've been pretty good if he stayed on the team and was allowed to polish them instead of handing them off to others to mutilate. Big problem here is that they were dicks to the art team (who were usually completely unfamiliar with game art) and that they really didn't know how to plan levels around the partners because the programmers barely started work on them. Second team with Iikka did work on 1999. IIRC this is where the level design starts to take a nosedive towards colored light and dickish level design, but it wasn't that bad. Third team with Stevie pretty much finished taking a huge dump on the levels. I'm pretty sure you can pin some of the shittier parts of the level design on this team. I still say that that, if Romero was willing to stay with the Quake 1 engine and/or be wiling to cut some things, like the partners, the game would've ended up on track and been a lot better. It'd probably be slammed at the time for not being top of the line, but I think it'd be respected a lot more down the line. Don't ask me how I know all of this.
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Feb 1, 2012 20:23
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NovemberMike posted:The way I always heard it, Romero was a really, really good game designer who wanted to be a rock star. He didn't have the technology planned out, he didn't manage it correctly and he didn't market it properly. The game itself had some design problems but a lot of them were common around the time of Daikatana's release and I can't fault him too much for them, although somebody should have been telling him he was retarded. Most of this stuff doesn't actually reflect on how good he is at designing content for games, it was mostly an issue of him being a terrible manager. Back during Wolf3D and Doom he was actually pretty good with tech. He was the one who made their in-house Doom editor and pushed the tech by making level design with things like stairs. It's when Quake was being developed that Carmack was clearly surpassing him, and that's when he went to full on game designer.
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Feb 1, 2012 20:51
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Boy Wunder posted:Yeah, Romero hosed up just about every way imaginable. Daikatana's fate was probably sealed when Romero saw the Quake 2 engine running with colored lighting and decided to port their current work over from the Quake 1 engine. He thought the Quake 2 code would be similar and that porting their stuff would be relatively simple but he was completely wrong. Romero's huge ego was pretty much the thing that killed Daikatana. If he would've been willing to compromise a bit on some of his goals, I think Daikatana would've turned out much better, even if it would've run on worse tech or whatever. quote:Quake was right when Romero left, and it was also when id games became really brown. They still played and felt really good because Carmack is really good at programming movement and physics as well as graphics, but they lost a lot of their personality. Tom Hall also left after working on Doom, so that probably contributed to id's creative decline too. There's probably a lesson in there somewhere given that after all the creative talent split up, they've never been able to make anything individually that was as good as what they made when they were together. I agree. After Romero left, it seems more like their games didn't have personalities. Say what you want about Quake 1 and it's sloppy design, but it has a lot more charm and personality than iD's later works. Quuke 3, in particular, gives the impression that the mindset behind it was "beep boop we must make an online FPS and fine tune it's gameplay to perfection", not the old, Romero-era "What if you put all of this cool poo poo from this totally rockin' comic book in a game and like you could blow up an ogre WITH A ROCKET LAUNCHER and HE TOTALLY MAKES SOME FUNNY SOUNDS WHEN YOU BLOW HIM TO PIECES??? HELL loving YEAH!"-type mentality. It's lack of personality is probably one of the reasons why I prefer playing Unreal Tournament 1 over it, even though Quake 3 has better balance and the like. closeted republican fucked around with this message at 07:29 on Feb 6, 2012 |
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Feb 6, 2012 06:43
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Gargonovitch posted:John Romero is a good designer, but I really think Tom Hall got the shaft in the whole iD saga. If you go and look at what he did in Rise of the Triad with a far more limited engine, it's pretty impressive. That game is incredibly creative with all of the tricks and traps. Funny you mention that; there's an interview with American McGee where he mentions the role humor played in creating Quake 1 and at iD in general while Romero was still around: quote:"Funny" is an adjective I would not have expected, could you elaborate what you consider funny in Quake?
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Feb 6, 2012 07:25
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Would anyone here be interested in me making a post about Daikatana's development history that's based on old development material (like betas)? It has a pretty interesting and somewhat tragic history, if things like the design docs are anything to go by.
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Feb 22, 2012 07:54
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Cobweb Heart posted:The weird things you can see on TCRF from the betas are really interesting; I'd love to read a full post on it. That reminds me; an old test level in an archive will let you bring up every model in the old Pre-Alpha. I should take screenshots of those models sometime, because there's some weird stuff in there, like a topless Harpy that doesn't look like a monster (  ), early power up models, and models for Episode 4's gangsters that look kinda like the ones in the final game.
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Feb 22, 2012 08:05
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Mak0rz posted:
I think it's supposed to be a throwback to the Doom pistol, which was a right hand gun held by the left hand. When it's fired, it goes to the center of the screen, like where the Doom pistol is on the screen.
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Feb 22, 2012 09:33
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JerryLee posted:I'm of mixed feelings regarding those leaked "Doom 4" shots, if indeed that's what they are. The parts that really do look like a generic Half-Life 2, Fallout, or Rage city are pretty disappointing, but here and there are some promising sights like huge crevices in the earth, evil orange glows, and especially those swarms of flying objects in one or two of the shots--it's impossible to say for sure what they are but they make me think of the dark blobby soul-things that were shooting around in parts of Doom 3's hell, and that would be awesome. I think they hinted a while ago that Doom 4 would be set in another universe, not the Doom 3 one. I'm hoping that the entire game is based on the "Earth and Hell merging" concept. I loved it in Doom 3 (like with the random lava fissures in the ground that start appearing around halfway through and seeing Delta labs with growth and scrambled computers everywhere after you returned from Hell), so a whole game that takes that theme and runs with it sounds like a winner to me.
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Feb 29, 2012 03:24
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I think "survivors of a hell invasion" is a pretty neat take on the Doom franchise and I hope it works out in the game. It's a lot more fresh than space marines and tech bases again.
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Feb 29, 2012 06:49
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TOOT BOOT posted:It could also go horribly, horribly wrong. When I think 'Post apocalyptic' one guy gunning down armies of demons isn't the first thing that pops into mind. Instead I imagine a cover shooter or stealthily gathering supplies. That's why I said "I hope it works out". It could go wrong.  quote:I think I could dig it if it's like living through a cataclysm in progress and the shelters are a relatively recent thing, but if the survivors have had long enough to set up underground cities full of survival-punk "technology" then I'm going to facepalm pretty hard. If the environment renders are anything to go by, the invasion will still be in progress in Doom 4. Seeing armies of demons burn a city down and open fissures in the ground while you're zipping through streets and killing off groups of enemies would be cool as hell.
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Feb 29, 2012 07:24
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It'd be cool if Romero served as an adviser and level designer for a small indie group that wants to make a truly old-school FPS. That way, he'd be making an old-school shooter again and go back to his indie roots. 
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Mar 13, 2012 05:43
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ChickenHeart posted:The guy behind Brutal Doom continues to excite and utterly-freak-me-out with how much detail he puts into the death and gore mechanics of his mod, and now that he posted a recent video showing off his progress with new explosion-related deaths for zombiemen in v.16, I start to question whether I should keep cheering this guy on or try to find him psychiatric help. Brutal Doom is pretty much the apex of everything 90s (especially 90s comic books). All it needs is a borderline-anorexic woman player character that wears a black and tight two-piece outfit with her navel and lot of cleavage exposed, the ability to ride a skateboard, and a katana to hack enemies in half and it will be peak 90s in one package.
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Mar 22, 2012 06:46
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Fergus Mac Roich posted:There's no giant robots or jetpacks in it. Yet. A man can always dream. 
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Mar 22, 2012 07:23
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Luigi Thirty posted:He moved to Romania so he could claim https://www.rome.ro and I think there was something about a mail-order bride or five? Nah, he's in the USA. He dumped his mail order bride (probably after she got her green card ) and now his current girlfriend is a game designer from Sierra back before they started sucking.
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Mar 22, 2012 10:31
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Wouldn't it be possible to unpack the mod and change the sound file around? I think you can extract the old sound file, pack it into it's own .pk3 file, then make it so that the old sound effect .pk3 is loaded after Brutal Doom is loaded.
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Mar 25, 2012 06:37
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SnipeBob posted:I hate the new sound effect for taking damage. What's it from, Doom 64? Yep.
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Mar 25, 2012 16:34
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For anyone that wants the original "gently caress YOURSELF!" back for Brutal Doom, I've made a quick mod that replaces the bad-sounding one in the current versions with the original. You can download it here. It'd be nice if it was added to the OP for convenience's sake.
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Apr 1, 2012 08:02
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Guillermus posted:Just one page ago. Ah poo poo.  Well, someone should at least post yours or mine to the OP so that people won't ask about it in the future.
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Apr 1, 2012 12:18
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It seems like most of the new changes are there just for the sake of being different. What drew people to Brutal Doom was that it was basically a more gory and intense Doom and that's it. It seems to me that the developers got the wrong impression from what people wanted and have starting changing everything because that's what they think people want. I don't think anyone was upset about things like the Doomguy sounding like Danny Glover when he flipped people off instead of a XTREME AND HARDCORE 90S COMIC BOOK CHARACTER. At this point, I won't be surprised if every enemy is redrawn at one point just because it's new. Honestly, one of the best things to do would be to just either slow down or focus on adding something else, like Realm667 enemy support, like someone mentioned earlier. We don't need another goddamn new Plasma Gun sprite or the Assault Rifle being remade again. quote:I feel pretty much the same way. I understand the feeling of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". On the other hand, one of the things that makes Brutal Doom so awesome is that it came in and 'fixed' something that most people would agree wasn't broken to begin with. The problem with changing the audio is that it's such a big part of the Doom experience even if you don't realize it. When you do anything in Doom a sound effect plays that you've heard a million times, such as a door opening or the Pinky idle sound. I guess it kinda subconsciously reminds you that you're playing Doom. If all the sound effects were suddenly different, it would be very jarring I think. I've been trying to think of a better way to describe it. Exactly, After you've played Doom for a while, the sounds are really important for figuring out what's going on. If you hear Reverent screams in the background, you know to take out a heavier-duty weapon instead of the Pump Shotgun you were using to kill 3 or so imps. Adding Doom 3 sounds disrupts that part of gameplay all because the author wanted to add something new to the mod. closeted republican fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Apr 2, 2012 |
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Apr 2, 2012 21:18
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RyokoTK posted:I love the poo poo out of Plutonia, but drat is it hard! It'll really change your opinion of Revenants and Chaingunners from "minor annoyance" to "seething hatred." If you think Plutonia is bad, wait until you try Hell Revealed. HR in UV is one "oh gently caress" moment one after another once you get past the levels 1-11. Once you've got a decent grasp of Doom's mechanics, it's pretty fun. You need to be good at starting enemy in-fights, know how enemies behave, and have good dodging skills and it is doable. I've got a UV HR run that's almost done, and it's been the most intense fun I've had in Doom for a while.
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Apr 4, 2012 18:38
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SavageMessiah posted:I've beaten HR and HR2 on UV in coop. But I hate playing that kind of stuff SP. I know how to do all the things you mention but I don't play Doom to prove my e-manhood, I just want to have fun. I actually played UV HR1 in SP for fun.
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Apr 4, 2012 18:46
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DIEGETIC SPACEMAN posted:Brutal Doom's starting to toe the line between changes that improve the original Doom or add an interesting twist on a game we've all played to death (replacing the pistol with the assault rifle, reloading weapons, barons throwing corpses at you, using a great sound clip from a movie to tell a monster from hell to go gently caress itself), and changes that are really pointless and seem to be aimed at completely overhauling the original game (replacing the shotgun and apparently now the rocket launcher sprites with bland generic graphics, newly recorded taunts that IMO sound like crap, replacing the stock "pain" sound). Personally I'd like to see Brutal Doom branched off into two mods, one that sticks closer to the original game and one where SgtMark keeps SgtMarkIV needs to take a nice break from Brutal Doom. A summer of not working on Brutal Doom would probably give him a fresh perspective on what the hell he wants to do with this mod. Right now Brutal Doom is being taken over by feature creep and a desire to change things just for the sake of them being different.
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Jun 1, 2012 09:16
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Fag Boy Jim posted:the designers of KDIZD sure didn't! The worst is E1M3, where you have to go into a lovely underground place that's twice as big as the area you were in before (the actual E1M3 remake) and go on a horrible key and switch hunt (complete with semi-hidden doors!) for no good reason that takes at least 20 minutes to navigate. I don't think most people playing KDIZD got past that level.
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Jun 4, 2012 04:09
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After seeing v0.16's weird and unecessary sound changes, along with SgtMarkIV's classy as hell gore mod, I think he needs to take a break. He's becoming less "genuinely good modder" and more "mediocre modder that got lucky". The new Doomguys voices are cool tho. closeted republican fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Jun 10, 2012 |
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Jun 10, 2012 08:10
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Newbies still want to play games like Quake 3 and UT99 online? I just play with bots only now. Sure, I may not be learning good online techniques with them, but at least I never have to get worried about getting constantly stomped online by creepy Scandinavian/Eastern European men that's played the game for 10 years in a row, can use whatever mods and mutators I want, and I can play more than three or so maps total.
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Jun 18, 2012 08:48
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UT99 had lots of fun DM maps, like Codex, Curse2, Healpod, Liandri, Pressure, Pyramid, Hyperblast and Morbias][. Most of the Domination, CTF and Assault maps were fun as well. It's disappointing to see that online UT99 players have ignored all of them in favor of endless Deck16][, Face and lovely, Killbox-quality custom maps.
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Jun 18, 2012 22:31
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Is that a slight against UT99's maps? Because if so, I am going to cut your loving head off. UT99's map designers were way better at giving their maps a personality instead of Quake 3's generic-looking maps that are either "666 EVIL 666", "boring tech base" or "boring tech base floating in a black skybox". 
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Jun 19, 2012 10:24
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I finished up Quake 2 a few days ago, and it's a lot better than I remember. There's plenty of ammo for you to go nuts with awesome weapons like the Chaingun, Rocket Launcher and BFG, which makes combat a blast. The enemies have personality (like the cannon fodder soldier's overdramatic death animations, the Tanks' THUMP and even the Iron Maiden's bizzare sexual moan idle sound), the levels are good enough that you won't get lost, and the game gives you a nice and steady supply of new guns to mess with, even if you don't go secret hunting. Even the orange and gray pallet isn't that bad after a few minutes. Quake 1 is still the best SP wise, but Q2 is a worthy successor to Quake 1, even if some of the charm that Quake 1 had is gone (the rest of the charm the Romero-era iD games had went away with Quake 3 ). The expansion packs can get hosed though. Ground Zero has mediocre level design that's filled with boring "enhanced" versions of normal enemies that take forever to kill, while Reckoning has underpowered weapons that the game really wants you to use, bullet sponge Icaruses, too much emphasis on the Railgun and those lovely small laser turrets that do 20 damage a hit and fire really fast lasers that will occasionally predict your movement with no warning. I'm considering quitting Reckoning because I'm getting sick of being gunned down by a laser turret that pops out of nowhere when I'm fighting other enemies.
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Jul 6, 2012 03:01
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Paul Pot posted:My problem with Quake 2 is that there are no memorable battles. You almost never attacked from all sides and even then the Strogg are just terribly slow bullet sponges. The only way to get hurt is by walking into a Gunner's grenade spam or getting tazered by a pack of those annoying dog things. The hub design was much better than I had remembered and the skyboxes are still pretty cool. Shame about the Big Gun level being such a turd. Agreed. The only real memorable battles are the bosses (mostly because it's so easy to wreck them), that level near the end of the Hangar hub that's filled with strong enemies in small to medium-sized rooms, and the army of Tank Commanders when you're inside the palace in the final hub. Every other encounter is "oh no a Gunner and Berserker are in your way!" with the occasional Iron Maiden or two thrown in after you reach the Power Plant hub. Of course, none of this matters when you become a BFG ball and rocket-spewing god of destruction. 
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Jul 7, 2012 06:50
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Reive posted:Any tips for a Blood newb? Playing on the middle difficulty and the game seems really hard. Abuse the hell out of the Flare Gun, TNT and the Napalm Launcher. Explosives are extremely powerful against every enemy in the game and they're pretty common. The only explosive that isn't really useful is the one that acts like a mine.
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Jul 9, 2012 18:37
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Don't talk poo poo about TFC. It's still really fun if you know a little bit about how Quake-style games work. 
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Jul 14, 2012 01:53
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SavageMessiah posted:I got it on Steam during one of the sales based on dim memories of enjoyment, played it for about an hour. I'm not sure what I was smoking the first time I played it - it's.... not great. For some reason I beat it twice. I don't know why; the gameplay is boring crap against the same mercenaries, the weapons are generic bullshit instead of the cool and weird weapons Unreal is known for (a shotgun in Unreal? Are you loving kidding?), the sense of exploration and wonder from the original is completely gone, and the hyped-up plot and character interaction are garbage. It really did serve as the end of the old school FPS, whether the developers knew it or not at the time. The review for it on SA's review section is a perfect description of how generic it is.
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Jul 19, 2012 18:06
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Essobie posted:Just about every FPS 1v1 design is flawed due to "winner's outs" where dying people come back typically way weaker than the surviving killing player is currently (no weapons, no armor, "average health"). These problems also extend to TDM. Quake 1 TDM completely revolves around memorizing where to you if you spawn in a certain area. If you don't make a move to pick up a certain powerup within x amount of seconds, you and your team are hosed. It's not fun being gunned down over and over by people that have one of the powerups in the level just because two of your teammates didn't get to one of the best items in the level as soon as they spawned in. Pro Team Fortress Classic also has a similar problem in that you have to follow a certain "script" (only Scouts and Medics attack; Heavies, Engineers and Soldiers placed at key chokepoints) if you really want to win because everyone else uses it, along with memorizing a level. If you don't, you might as well quit now because you're going to be steamrolled. quote:In full deathmatch I'd expect that to be less of a problem, since with so many people running around even a high-level player can get flanked or have a bunch of other players take a chunk out of him in quick succession, but in duel it seems like once someone has a lead, it's disproportionately hard to take that lead away from them, since they have a large health and weapon advantage (and that, in turn, makes it easier for them to exert control and keep you from becoming a threat in the first place - witness how many times Purri got whacked trying to get the railgun or minigun). FPS 1v1 seems to be more of an exercise in memorizing than actual gameplay. It's extremely punishing and seems to be built for and by people that care more about following the "winning" strategy that's hypothetically supposed to never fail (ie "pro" Super Smash Brothers players) than improvisation and other elements. It doesn't give two shits about making things fair for the loser, even though that's what makes these types of games exciting and would attract far more people than just nerds that love to memorize things. I don't mind that people enjoy it, but when it's promoted to the detriment of other game modes or as the best of a game's MP component, then it gets frustrating (see: ESports based on classic FPS games). Not all of us enjoy memorizing some video game level to the point where you could run through it even if the brain lobe responsible for higher-level thinking was shut down. closeted republican fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Jul 24, 2012 |
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Jul 24, 2012 22:55
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ToxicFrog posted:It seems that there's a problem here in that pretty much any such game will benefit from memorization; a player with lightning reflexes, expertise with every weapon, and perfect aim will still lose to someone who has all of that and has memorized the entire level. Memorization is my biggest issue with pro gameplay. Things like the 1v1 duel posted earlier seem more like scripts ran by a bot instead of actual test of one's skills. At some points, it feels like you can see where the person's mind is thinking concepts like "if enemy is near yellow armor, then shoot rocket at mid door to hit them". That doesn't seem like a test of one's abilities at all. It's more of an overglorified Simon Says than a fast-paced FPS that values quick reflexes and reactions. quote:Easily, you spawn both players with all weapons and maximal health/armor - plenty of arena mods do exactly this for training purposes, resetting the spawns each death That sounds like a good idea. You can still have a Quake-style DM with rockets and bunny hopping everywhere, but it's more about actual skill and tactics, not memorization passed off as skill. I'd play it. closeted republican fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Jul 25, 2012 |
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Jul 24, 2012 23:29
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victrix posted:A long time ago when I was playing competitively, we played a league that did this. It was loving awesome. I'd love to hear about how lovely competitive FPS gamers are. Based on how conservative, spergy and whiny they are, an insider's look into how horrible it is playing and being with them would be great. Kazvall posted:This sounds great to me. I remember playing Cal CS and loving hating having to memorize down to seconds the routes we'd have to take based on amount of team mates and enemy position. It came down to knowing where they'd be based on a set option list, than to actual skill of acquisition. I just love counting seconds, when it's not the clock. Things like this make me think the only reason why certain maps become "pro" isn't because they're well-balanced; they're just easy to memorize. That's why dynamic levels like the Pressure in UT99 or any dynamic game mode like UT's Assault never appear in serious tournaments; you can't predict with 100% certainty what is going to happen all the time, like you can in de_dust2 or Q3DM6. closeted republican fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Jul 25, 2012 |
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Jul 25, 2012 01:15
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mistermojo posted:I don't see what's wrong with having a large amount of strategy and timing in the game in addition to reflexes. Why is aiming a purer skill than being able to control the map? The problem is when it becomes the ONLY thing that matters. If you watch 1v1 duels, it's clearly more about controlling the map and being able to predict everything than actual skill. That seems to go against the actual idea of pro-level gaming in the first place. quote:I never liked the fact that you had to jump around like a tard in order to be considered 'good'. I'm probably in the minority here. I also thought conc jumping in Team Fortress Classic was stupid and more or less quit once it became a popular strategy. Does this make me a bad person? Conc Jumping isn't that bad in a pub game. You usually get torn to shreds if you try it in one, even if you aren't played 2fort/Well. You need a constant stream of Conc Jumpers for it to be effective, and that usually doesn't happen in pubs. quote:It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what sort of community that spawns. Deeply competitive and skilled players looking for amazingly tough well fought battles isn't really what most of them are looking for, they either want glorious wins to prove their awesomeness, or to belong to some sort of leet self described pro scene tribe. That makes a lot of sense. Pro gaming isn't set up to actually test your skills; it's set up to ensure feel-good blowout and glorious victories so the players can stroke their tiny ego. It explains all of the rules (ie the classic "Final Destination/Battlefield only" rule) and the emphasis on memorization instead of actual skills. Those make it easy to get one-sided victories.
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Jul 25, 2012 01:58
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field balm posted:Agreeing with the idea of aiming as the one true skill being silly - forethought, planning and mind games before the actual 'battle' starts should be equally important, someone who has planned for all situations should beat the guy who comes round the corner randomly with good aim. A higher skill ceiling is pretty much always good for competitive games, right? Mind games and planning are fine, but when it becomes the only thing that decides a game, then it's a problem. When I play FPS games online, I use tactics like that and have certain routes I like to use, but they're never the cornerstone of my strategies. I don't memorize a level to the point where I think I can predict everything based on a simple "if x, then y" list in my head, then camp an area for the entire match just because it's the "winning strategy". Part of the fun of online FPS games is the randomness of it all and the ability to improvise on the spot and still end up in a favorable position, no matter the game mode. If you're making it into Simon Says with fast-paced shooting mixed in, then you're stripped out a lot of the fun and charm of such games.
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Jul 25, 2012 02:49
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