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The Winds of Winter has gone to printers. Its ISBN is 9780373023981.
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Apr 1, 2024 19:18
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Platystemon posted:The Winds of Winter has gone to printers. Hilarious.
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Apr 1, 2024 19:26
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Oh, I’m sorry, it’s ISBN 9781035049394 and has a release date of October tenth of this year.
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Apr 1, 2024 19:31
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poo poo it's kind of funny in retrospect how great Beric is, he is almost the most Stannis dude out there past Stannis and Ned. My honor requires me to become an undead horror under the thrall of a foreign god? gently caress it, that dude is not my true king, I'll do it, my lord ordered me to restore the true king.
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Apr 1, 2024 22:30
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Guy A. Person posted:nice, how is it? Pretty good. Beric has a POV chapter.
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Apr 1, 2024 23:03
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Waltzing Along posted:I'm a bit into book 2 now. I'd heard that Stannis was really cool. So far he is garbage tier. He's not stupid (so far) like sansa but he's just such a dick. He's totally unlikable. Yuck. that's book 2 stannis alright
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Apr 4, 2024 15:35
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Waltzing Along posted:I'm a bit into book 2 now. I'd heard that Stannis was really cool. So far he is garbage tier. He's not stupid (so far) like sansa but he's just such a dick. He's totally unlikable. Yuck. I never liked Stannis. He doesn't do anything cool enough for me to remember it. I liked the onion Knight though
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Apr 4, 2024 16:40
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Anders posted:I never liked Stannis. He doesn't do anything cool enough for me to remember it. I liked the onion Knight though Casting Liam Cunningham as Davos was one of the best decisions they did with the show. Right up there with Peter Dinklage. Speaking of Liam Cunningham, everyone should watch Dog Soldiers. No it's not connected to ASoiF, but it's a really good werewolf movie.
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Apr 4, 2024 16:49
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Theon chapters are an absolute slog. His dad is an rear end in a top hat. His sister is a bitch. He is an arrogant prick. No one is likable. I guess his squire is likable, sort of. Naw, gently caress that guy, too. I can't wait for Theon to get his dick chopped off.
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Apr 4, 2024 16:49
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In a setting full of big dumb assholes, the Ironborn take pride in being the biggest dumbest assholes possible, yes
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Apr 4, 2024 16:55
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Also, in yet another unforced error: robb sends theon, against his moms advice. That really seems like something a lot of his advisors would have been against. Definitely a spot that gurm kinda dropped the plot. It's so obviously a bad idea, you'd think someone other than Cat would have said something.
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Apr 4, 2024 17:01
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Tbh not listening to cat is usually the right move
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Apr 4, 2024 18:35
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It isn't that surprising to me. Theon is basically Robb's big brother and closest friend and Robb trusts him a lot. Also Robb is like 15. Good advice or not a lot of people seem to forget that so many of the decision makers are literally children
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Apr 4, 2024 18:49
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yeah, theon is to Robb as Robert is to Ned
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Apr 4, 2024 19:11
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Also the Iron Isles were going to attack the north, Theon or no. They're already mostly prepared for it by the time he arrives back in the Iron Isles. Him participating in things certainly makes events go worse for nearly everyone though.
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Apr 4, 2024 19:30
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I just meant that it's like all these bannermen completely forgot the iron isles existed sort of. They thought, hey we can send Theon and of course they will help us. It never occurred to them that maybe Greyjoy wouldn't be totally happy to help. Just dumb on top of dumb. The more I think of pretty much any decision, the more I think everyone is stupid.
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Apr 4, 2024 20:25
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The bit they put in the show with Theon burning the letter that would've warned Robb was pretty good.
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Apr 4, 2024 20:30
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Waltzing Along posted:I just meant that it's like all these bannermen completely forgot the iron isles existed sort of. They thought, hey we can send Theon and of course they will help us. It never occurred to them that maybe Greyjoy wouldn't be totally happy to help. Just dumb on top of dumb. I mean, sending Theon illustrates that they didn't really forget and is kind of a Hail Mary play but at the same time they don't have a ton of options. They've called up all the lords and armies and left themselves wide open for the iron born to attack and clearly those assholes are going to jump at the chance. The safer/more conservative play would have been for Robb to keep Theon by his side and dispatch a message saying "hey will still have your heir dipshit, don't try anything funny" although that wouldn't have done anything anyway since they've been spending the last several years talking themselves into thinking their son/brother is a traitor for being a prisoner somehow anyway (presumably to justify how they still really, really wanna fuckin attack the North and are going to do it even if it gets Theon's throat cut). Robb's plan ends up actually being a not half-bad one because Theon actually had been influenced by the Starks and did go fully intending to parlay and it's a really big gesture to release their main captive, it's just that not even Theon imagined what unbelievable assholes they would all be (he imagined being welcome home like a hero and instead he's treated like a fuckin clown for being a captive because of their previous defeat). Like Rauri said the Iron Born were going to attack regardless, Theon being there does get Winterfell taken quicker but also less violently, and everyone got fully outplayed by the Boltons in any case.
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Apr 4, 2024 20:47
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The only smart thing Robb could've done at that point would have been to retreat to the Twins with Jamie in chains and under constant guard. From there he can compel Frey to send troops under the command of Theon and some other Northern loyalists (Umbers or Karstarks) to help defend the Riverlands, send his mother back to Winterfell along with some Stark troops to safeguard the North, send Manderly or Glover to treat with Stannis offering his loyalty along with troops to aid with march on Kings Landing. And send off Bolton to raid Lannister lands or supply lines, or maybe even to the Wall to help with the Wildlings. Even if everything went to poo poo the option of hunkering down for the winter and waiting out the Lannister/Baratheon conflict would still be viable. Alas, Starks are dumb. Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Apr 4, 2024 |
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Apr 4, 2024 21:42
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Where I am now, Stannis is about to attack Renly, which is just more stupid. You'd think all these players would be aware that the Lannisters were the real threat and gang up on them and easily take them out. But nope, stupidity upon stupidity. Book 2 is so so so much worse than book 1. Is this going to keep up? I've heard book 5 is bad, but book 2 is already bad enough that I am amazed he was able to get through 5 books.
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Apr 4, 2024 21:49
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I haven't read it in a very long time, but book 3 had some real good content in it by my standards of the time. Which were low. They're still low, but in a different way.
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Apr 4, 2024 22:10
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I just wish we'd seen more of the wolves. Introducing cool animals and forgetting about 4/5s of them is a bad decision and lovely way to break the tropes
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Apr 5, 2024 08:22
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Mat Cauthon posted:The only smart thing Robb could've done at that point would have been to retreat to the Twins with Jamie in chains and under constant guard. From there he can compel Frey to send troops under the command of Theon and some other Northern loyalists (Umbers or Karstarks) to help defend the Riverlands, send his mother back to Winterfell along with some Stark troops to safeguard the North, send Manderly or Glover to treat with Stannis offering his loyalty along with troops to aid with march on Kings Landing. And send off Bolton to raid Lannister lands or supply lines, or maybe even to the Wall to help with the Wildlings. Robb's strategy was great. By sneaking into the Westerlands and pillaging he forced Tywin to try to follow him. Had Edmure not stopped Tywin at the Blue Fork, Tywin would have kept moving West, then gotten caught between Robb and Edmure in a pincer, been eaten alive, and not been able to save King's Landing and Joffrey from Stannis. You would've ended up with Stannis with his forces, Robb with the North on his side, and a neutral Vale and Reach. But GURM wanted to up the tension and make all the heroes lose for 'muh realism', so every time Robb did something smart, someone else f*cked it up, also Roose kept sabotaging him. He was destined to fail no matter how well he did for the plot. Crazy Joe Wilson fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Apr 5, 2024 |
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Apr 5, 2024 14:10
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Robb not telling Edmure the full plan was lazy writing i think. also i maintain that the show should have done the direwolves using jim henson style puppets/animatronics. or just got henson to do it edit: forgot he's dead though
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Apr 5, 2024 16:41
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God the Ironmen are such tremendous weenies and it's honestly shocking that the west of Westeros keeps them around because they contribute literally nothing of value to society. Like, they're even shittier than actual real-life Vikings.
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Apr 5, 2024 16:52
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Mad Hamish posted:God the Ironmen are such tremendous weenies and it's honestly shocking that the west of Westeros keeps them around because they contribute literally nothing of value to society. The last 15 years of their history are particularly implausible, when you consider that they sacked and pillaged Lannisport - a city less than ten miles away from Tywin Lannisters' home, and all he did was team up with Stannis and Bobby B to give them a smack on their arse and hand Theon Greyjoy over to the Starks. Come on, Tywin would have thought "Oh good, another few Houses I can wipe out of existence", and cheerfully genocided the entire archipelago, whistling the "Rains of Castamere" as he went, and everyone else would probably just have nodded and thought "You know, they had it coming", and wonder if they could lay any claim to the iron mines.
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Apr 5, 2024 17:28
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Zippy the Bummer posted:Robb not telling Edmure the full plan was lazy writing i think. also i maintain that the show should have done the direwolves using jim henson style puppets/animatronics. or just got henson to do it Yup. Edmure was based it's just Robb was too busy getting laid and committing the exact same atrocities the Lannisters were to tell his most important (acting) vassal the plan Everyone is constantly clowning on Edmure for trying to fulfill the only actual thing a feudal lord is supposed to do for his subjects; protect them lol. Stupid Edmure sent troops to protect the border villages, soft-headed Edmure would rather repel the Lannister army using advantageous terrain than let them march unopposed through the land
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Apr 5, 2024 18:37
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I'm trying to remember now and I feel like the iron mines were exhausted? Or am I confusing that with the gold at Casterly Rock? The Ironmen appear to be totally reliant on Westeros for just about everything aside from salt and fish since they have no loving trees, it feels like them and their bullshit could be easily dealt with by destroying their fleet and then putting the islands under interdict. Let's see them stock their shipyards with their precious iron price.
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Apr 5, 2024 18:57
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Irisi posted:The last 15 years of their history are particularly implausible, when you consider that they sacked and pillaged Lannisport - a city less than ten miles away from Tywin Lannisters' home, and all he did was team up with Stannis and Bobby B to give them a smack on their arse and hand Theon Greyjoy over to the Starks. For all of Bobby Bs faults, the man was surprisingly cool with the "mercy" thing* in a way most other lords were not *Unless its a Targ
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Apr 5, 2024 19:27
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Yeah Robb was done as soon as he accepted King in the North. Swearing to Stannis or Renly is the only way the North does not lose. The Edmure thing is not him being screwed by a dumbass underling. Edmure did all that was expected of him and more. He halted the Mountain, the most brutal Lord known, from rampaging through the lands he was sworn to protect. Then Robb chews him out as an idiot, without having told him the plan. Or acknowledging that this plan means sacrificing Riverlanders for Northerners. A thing Riverman armies will not be keen on. Robb was not a smart King. He was not a good King.
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Apr 5, 2024 20:16
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Irisi posted:The last 15 years of their history are particularly implausible, when you consider that they sacked and pillaged Lannisport - a city less than ten miles away from Tywin Lannisters' home, and all he did was team up with Stannis and Bobby B to give them a smack on their arse and hand Theon Greyjoy over to the Starks. Yeah, in any remotely ”realistic” scenario the rest of the kingdoms would just have hosed the Ironmen up with any possible excuse and called it a day
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Apr 5, 2024 20:56
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Waltzing Along posted:Also, in yet another unforced error: robb sends theon, against his moms advice. That really seems like something a lot of his advisors would have been against. Definitely a spot that gurm kinda dropped the plot. It's so obviously a bad idea, you'd think someone other than Cat would have said something. tbf balon would still have attacked the north anyway, he didn't gaf if Robb chopped Theon. Theon's value as a hostage was nil the actual problem with sending Theon back turned out to be his tactical knowledge of winterfell, but the relevance of that was kinda hard to forsee considering how inland Winterfell was
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Apr 5, 2024 21:17
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Mad Hamish posted:I'm trying to remember now and I feel like the iron mines were exhausted? Or am I confusing that with the gold at Casterly Rock? Hey wait how the gently caress are they doing any of the million steps in actually making stuff out of iron without trees? You need a loving zillion trees to make all the charcoal to even get started. Are they supposed to have already used the trees up, or were they paying the
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Apr 5, 2024 21:53
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Maybe they've got coal on the islands. Or maybe they have magma forges. I remember my Dwarf Fortress mechanics.
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Apr 5, 2024 21:59
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Xiahou Dun posted:Hey wait how the gently caress are they doing any of the million steps in actually making stuff out of iron without trees? You need a loving zillion trees to make all the charcoal to even get started. I believe they deforested the islands to provide timber for shipbuilding, but it's been a while so I might be wrong. Could be that such trees as grew there weren't good for timber.
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Apr 5, 2024 22:36
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soviet elsa posted:Then Robb chews him out as an idiot, without having told him the plan. Or acknowledging that this plan means sacrificing Riverlanders for Northerners. A thing Riverman armies will not be keen on. Robb was not a smart King. He was not a good King. My knowledge of real-life history forces me to disagree here, Robb was a good king, a smart king. Just not a Riverlanders-king and a lot of real-life kings would have sacrificed as many Riverlanders as necessary to keep their Northerners safe. Hell, IRL-Robb would have probably expected Edmure to slowly retreat while burning his own lands, to make Tywin's army starve on the march.  Xiahou Dun posted:Hey wait how the gently caress are they doing any of the million steps in actually making stuff out of iron without trees? You need a loving zillion trees to make all the charcoal to even get started. IRL, vikings used something called iron sand, basically mud with some traces of iron in it, since actual sources of iron were pretty sparse. The methods they used were kind of ingenious, although the iron that resulted from their processes was goddamn awful poo poo. I'm guessing, since Vikings sometimes colonized places too cold for big trees, their lovely stuff didn't rely as much on charcoal. also if the Iron Isles had *salt*, that was worth quite a lot IRL, so it should have made it possible for the fuckers to trade for whatever they need, with how much a hypothetical salt trade should bring in, they should have been able to just trade for steel weapons and armor, lumber for their ships, etc. but then of course you won't have a conflict, because well-armed merchant families would quietly assassinate any ruler who tried to start poo poo with their trading partners
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Apr 5, 2024 23:28
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Tywin's army should've starved anyway they'd already turned everything from the Red Fork to the Gods Eye to ash
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Apr 5, 2024 23:37
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George Raymond Richard Martin knows as much about premodern military operations as he does about how tall 700 feet actually is 
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Apr 6, 2024 00:38
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Sometimes I am reminded of TS Morgensterns, The Princess Bride. Other times I am reminded of The Boys. The comics, not the show. Princess Bride: the book is by William Goldman. He writes that he is doing an abridgement of the original book by Morgentsten. And the sort of things he cuts is very much like how gurm describes all sorts of things. Except in Morgensterns book he goes on for entire chapters about minutiae. And The Boys is very anti-heroes. It is written in part due to a sort of hatred for the superhero genre. The heroes are pretty lovely. And gurms heroes are complete doofuses. So yeah...
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Apr 6, 2024 01:12
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Realism is not important, and indeed can often be detrimental to the story someone wants to tell, but internal consistency is important if you want your story to built on something other than handwavey bullshit. The GRRM claims his books have both, but they do not possess either.
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Apr 6, 2024 01:19
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