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Intel&Sebastian posted:Jaime failing his redemption arc because he still loves Cersei is a thing I could see GRRM doing, and I very much doubt the show dudes were confident enough to try something like that on their own. Yeah, I could see him having Jaime relapse in the end, or before the end. But GRRM starts Jaime on his redemption arc by revealing that he gave his honor and killed his king to protect the citizens of King's Landing from death by wildfire. D&D forgot that and had Jaime blithely talk about how he "never cared for them, innocent or otherwise." I doubt GRRM would have Jaime say anything of the sort if he were ever going to write the book where it would happen.
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Jul 14, 2020 01:33
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Spek posted:Not just the payoff it was also it's own buildup to something new. You can't read/watch something like the Red Wedding and not think something like "drat I cant wait to see the ramifications of this!" This is something I feel like the show Red Wedding starts, actually, in one regard: Stannis cursing the usurpers. In ASoS, Balon dies like 100 pages later, which, OK, could be a coincidence. The Red Wedding hits less than 100 pages after that, and then the Purple Wedding less than 100 after that. It really aids the feel of "there are certainly logical reasons all of these things happened... but they did happen very shortly after the guy who seems to have magic on his side magically cursed them." Meanwhile, in the show, they split the Red and Purple Weddings over the season break, which distanced the latter from the curses and dulled the impact a little, and then just let Balon outlive Stannis for no discernible reason (other than, you know, they didn't like Stannis and said he was "unquestionably terrible"). That to me is where the show really gets off the "actions have ramifications" train.
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Jan 23, 2021 19:19
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banned from Starbucks posted:What great success have they had post Thrones? Sansa in some lovely xmen sequels and Dany in the worst starwars movie ever made? The quality of the films doesn't matter nearly as much for "actor success" as the size of the check they get does, and the major factor in the size of their checks was that they were coming from GoT.
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Jan 26, 2021 14:00
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indiscriminately posted:Someone who likes ASoIaF, is bored of the repetitive puerile poo poo, hopes the thread can move on to something better. The thread can't move on until there's something to move on to.
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Feb 3, 2021 23:12
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Kellanved posted:But I try to keep in mind that they must have had some contribution to its initial insane success. A lot of the info out there says otherwise. People who worked on the show would talk about how D&D were in completely over their heads, couldn't stick to a budget because they were delusional about what things would cost, had trouble with pacing, didn't understand how costumes worked, etc. The thing was, those people were telling the stories at the peak of the show's popularity, so they came across as, "oh, funny! look how much they learned on the job!" and not, "oh, they were lucky as gently caress to be surrounded by a structure that could cover their asses, and the more of that structure they lost, the clearer it became that they were still in over their heads." Now, the needle points a lot more toward that "lucky as gently caress" side.
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Feb 27, 2021 00:16
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Evil Fluffy posted:As bad as the constant overuse of Arywn was, the love story stuff in the Hobbit movies was just inexcusably bad and I'm legit surprised the Tolkien estate didn't tell him to drop it. I just saw the Hobbit movies for the first time two weeks ago and I had to look this up. Turns out, Peter Jackson publicly and privately promised there would be no lovely love story with Tauriel, and Evangeline Lilly (a lifelong Tolkien fan) signed up to play Tauriel under that promise, and there was no such story once principal photography wrapped. Then, allegedly, the studio told them "since you need more footage to turn this into three movies instead of two, Tauriel will be involved in a love triangle, and you're fired and sued if you don't come back for reshoots to make those happen."
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Mar 29, 2021 16:22
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Evil Fluffy posted:Are D&D involved with this or is the show being headed by people aren't incompetent failsons? D&D aren't involved, so not failsons, but it's being run by Miguel Sapochnik, so your feelings on competency will depend on what you thought of the Battle of Winterfell and Daenerys burning King's Landing.
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May 7, 2021 01:45
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Dinklage was perfect as show Tyrion; they wanted him to be more sympathetic, less petty, and more charismatic than book Tyrion, and he was great for that. GRRM loves to point out that book Tyrion is "the grayest of the gray" morally, but show Tyrion lands much more on the heroic side: he treats Sansa better, he doesn't have random minor characters killed, his killings of Shae and Tywin were more justified to the audience and he was portrayed as remorseful. In the show, when he resolves to join Daenerys, his motivation is that Westeros needs a better ruler and he believes it can be her. In the books (which, of course, the books have many more hints than the show did at that point about Daenerys not being a good person or better ruler after all), he's a lot more selfish and spiteful, his primary motivation is revenge, and he even has that scene with Young Griff where Tyrion advises him on manipulating Daenerys. EDIT: My point, which I neglected to actually say, is that they weren't writing Tyrion like he's written in the books and I don't honestly think they could have if they wanted to (both because of quality of writing and because of the cuts they made), regardless of the actor. They wanted something else and Dinklage nailed what they wanted... which, later in the show when what they wanted sucked, was a disappointment to us and a detriment to him. disaster pastor fucked around with this message at 12:49 on Jul 8, 2021 |
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Jul 8, 2021 12:25
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Shageletic posted:Didnt the TV show have Rickon show up only to be shot at by arrows lol what a horrible show Yup, Smalljon Umber doesn't die at the Red Wedding, he reveals in season 6 "oh, we've been hiding Rickon all this time, but now I'm going to give him to Ramsay," and then Ramsay arrows Rickon at the Battle of the Bastards to make Jon sad.
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Jul 8, 2021 14:33
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I remember the theories between episodes on how this was part of an elaborate The North Remembers plot against Ramsey Which I can't honestly fault people for, because the books are clear that the North loved Ned, they loved Robb, and while they're publicly more or less accepting of the Boltons, pretty much all of them are either hoping or actively working behind Roose's back to restore the Starks to Winterfell. So with the tantalizing prospect of "oh, Benioff and Weiss are working off GRRM's notes!" hanging over everyone's heads, of course people were trying to see how this would play into the Northern scheme to bring the Boltons down. Meanwhile, in reality, Shimrra Jamaane posted:lol nope Umber was a traitor and Rickon dies because he can’t not run in a straight line. (And then it descends further into farce, as the house heads decide Jon should be King in the North, and then he goes off to do diplomacy like a king does and once he's gone for like five minutes they're openly debating whether Sansa should be Queen instead because she's there and he's not, because I guess they lack object permanence)
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Jul 8, 2021 17:10
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Hasselblad posted:Who's they, and why should book readers care what they wanted? "They" are the show runners. I didn't say anyone should care what they wanted, just that they clearly got what they wanted.
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Jul 8, 2021 19:39
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kaworu posted:Someone like freaking Max Von Sydow should have been amazing as The Three-Eyed Crow/Bloodraven, but they totally hosed it up somehow and we was both forgettable and mediocre. "I have been watching you with a thousand eyes... and one." *has two working eyes*
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Jul 10, 2021 04:06
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GRRM when A Dance With Dragons is released: "hrm, I wonder what part of these books people will be discussing ten years hence, when surely this is all over." Ten years hence: mind the walrus posted:ASoIaF: how viable a castrati army
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Jul 13, 2021 02:06
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Kylaer posted:The guy who played Joffrey left the industry and became a college professor or something, didn't he? No, he was considering going into teaching but decided against it. He ended up just switching exclusively to theatre until last year, when he made a couple TV appearances again.
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Jul 13, 2021 15:12
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:His best work on the show is probably his big write-up of how the Dothraki have nothing whatsoever to do with the historical peoples Martin explicitly compares them to by name, and rather instead everything to do with racist depictions of those peoples. Thank you for mentioning this, I went and read it and, man, seeing it all in one place really hammers home how GRRM is just proudly and openly trafficking in ignorant and racist stereotypes.
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Jul 17, 2021 20:41
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V. Illych L. posted:didn't bronn basically just make the guy spend a lot of energy to exhaust himself and then push him out of a window in the books or am i misremembering? i recall that seeming like the way you'd go to fight someone you can't really hurt with your weapons but who's wearing several kilos of metal on their body Pretty much. The dude's wearing a ton of armor and is using Jon Arryn's fancy sword at Lysa's request, which he's never used and isn't meant for this. Bronn just evades him until he's exhausted, then knocks a statue over onto him and kills him while he's pinned beneath it. IIRC, in the show, Bronn gets a lot more shots in because they don't trust the viewer to realize he's winning by tiring him out. (To be fair, GRRM isn't exactly subtle in the books, either; Catelyn knows exactly what's going to happen, because she remembers when Brandon showed up in full armor for his duel with Littlefinger, saw that Littlefinger would be a lot more mobile, and immediately stripped down before the fight.)
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Nov 10, 2021 14:43
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:One of the worst sins of the TV show is how all of that basically falls off a cliff in the latter seasons, leaving nothing to Cersei but sitting in a tower drinking wine. It's like without the books to crib from they forgot how consequences work. "Isn't Braavos formed by former slaves and completely opposed to slavery in all its forms?" "Yup." "Hasn't Braavos gone to war with Pentos about thirty times to end slavery in Pentos?" "Sure." "Why did the Iron Bank back Cersei?" "Because Daenerys was hurting slavers' profits." edit: also, lol at GRRM outliving lowtax
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Nov 11, 2021 14:20
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PupsOfWar posted:a lot of people cite Aiden Gillen's scenery-chewing creep performance (and the show-only sexposition scenes) as a big adaptation change, since book Littlefinger is supposedly meant to be friendly and nonthreatening, while Gillen's take on the character is so obviously sinister from the start Yeah, there aren't many characters who are actually more villainous in the show than in the books, so Littlefinger stands out even though it's largely (not completely) an artifact of the books saying "this guy everyone thinks of as charming and witty is actually a huge scheming creep" and the show having to find a way to translate that.
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Nov 26, 2021 18:45
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PupsOfWar posted:One thing I've noticed in the fandom since the show ended is people seem way more interested in the Griff/Aegon storyline than they used to be. As much as I don't care about the Aegon story, it's very much a fundamental part of GRRM's plot, and I feel like a lot of the interest you're seeing is a side effect of realizing how badly the show's plots suffer from just sloppily excising it, rather than finding a logical way to reassign its pieces to keep those plot paths stable. (No, "Varys actually supported Daenerys all along" doesn't count as logical.)
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Nov 27, 2021 03:34
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There's a good Let's Read Animorphs thread that's up to book 33 now (one of the "absolutely grim" ones), if you want more Animorphs chat. And there are some people in there who didn't read the books at all or didn't get this far, whose reactions are usually quite entertaining.Gnoman posted:Did our hero just leave an innocent homeless man to be brutally murdered as a distraction?
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Dec 8, 2021 04:21
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:I think a big part of the reason for the books' success - the show is a different beast although to an extent has it - is one of the things that was a major appeal of Star Wars or even to an extent Dark Souls. Martin was very good at creating the impression of a vast and interesting world full of mysterious characters, places, and plots. You know how fans wondered about what the heck the Clone Wars were for literally decades until Lucas finally revealed it in all its underwhelming glory. Or folks writing literally pages of theorycrafting on a character in Dark Souls known only from a single item's one line mention of them. One thing I kept thinking when I read the books for the first time was "I wish he was writing in this depth about Robert's Rebellion instead of the War of the Five Kings, the Rebellion sounds a lot more interesting." Of course, now I know that if he had written about the Rebellion in that much depth, it wouldn't have been nearly as interesting.
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Dec 24, 2021 16:08
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nine-gear crow posted:Apparently the comic has only covered 71 days worth of time in the now 22 years of its existence. How and i cannot stress this enough the gently caress
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Dec 31, 2021 00:49
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nine-gear crow posted:It is perhaps the crowning achievement of wasted time, energy, talent and effort from so many people on something undone so thoroughly by a comparatively small group of people, namely the DP and the writers/producers. I remember reading the articles about how all the actors were miserable, they were freezing to death, many were falling into depression from weeks on a nighttime filming schedule, a couple of them (allegedly) needed medical intervention... ...and then I watched the episode and I was like "all of that for this? No. No way."
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Jan 9, 2022 15:41
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Pretty sure the book explicitly states that she turns fourteen in her second or third chapter, when she's in extreme pain due to Drogo's rough loving. Yes, but the original context of that quote is the old material posted on reddit, in which the timing of the first book is two years earlier than it would be in the final book as published. So that version would have made her eleven at her wedding, and the day she finds out she's pregnant would have been her twelfth birthday.
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May 11, 2022 20:24
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kaworu posted:I felt Ike the TV show more or less began with just as wide a scope and being just as ambitious as the book, but that with every subsequent season it felt like the scope and vision of the series continually got LESS epic, and smaller and smaller. Until by the last season you have characters like Varys and Tyrion who seemed deeply clever and mysterious and full of possibilities and motivations and fate…. Being revealed as insignificant pawns of characters who apparently never knew what they were doing in the first place. Pretty much every character on the TV show suffers TREMENDOUSLY from this. Yeah, Benioff and Weiss's brilliant way of showing the viewers that "now things are serious!" in the last couple of seasons was just to make the characters the opposite of whatever they were before. Tyrion was an underappreciated genius, both strategically and socially, with intelligent plots he never got credit for? Well, now he's an overrated dumbass, he constantly fucks up his evaluation of people, and his plans all suck. Varys is three steps ahead of everyone else because he's the literal master of secrets? Well, he'll be sloppy with this secret, and he'll be the last person to realize he's going to be executed for it. Cersei is a ruthless, conniving queen? Well, now she sits in the Red Keep, pretends she's not pining after Jaime, and moans about the poor outcomes of other peoples' conniving.
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May 17, 2022 13:37
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:Like I said before, I think the funniest possible outcome in the near term is Winds comes out but over the course of 1000 pages the overall plot only advances to approximately midway through season 6 of the show. Page 1001 is another "Meanwhile, Back at the Wall" where GRRM is like "Right now, you're saying 'wait, isn't this supposed to be the second to last book? Isn't there only one more after this? How will this all fit?' And you're right! But because of the amount of content we have to get through, each book is being split into four parts! Preorder The Winds of Winter, Part II right now, release date TBD!"
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May 19, 2022 13:07
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Mat Cauthon posted:Feel kinda bad for Harington too - the guy obviously took it hard when the show botched the last 2-3 seasons and he is so tightly bound up with it that it will be hard to ever break away from that role. Yeah, like, this is the guy who compared looking back on the end to looking back on a painful relationship, who ended up in mental health treatment where he all but said "I learned to be proud of my work regardless of the stuff that was beyond my control," who admitted a few months ago he still hadn't watched the final season. So hopefully he's doing this because there's something about it he really wants to do, and not just because he thinks "I can't pass up this opportunity."
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Jun 17, 2022 18:14
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Mat Cauthon posted:Most of them went back to being jobbing actors but with more financial security (at least for the long term recurring cast).The guy who played Davos has been in a ton of direct to video, TV movie, etc type stuff for example. Yeah, Liam Cunningham strikes me as one of those actors who has realized he just really loves to act and cares more about what he can do in a role than about the role's prestige or whatever.
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Jun 20, 2022 13:45
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emanresu tnuocca posted:It would be cooler if they time travel, imo. 
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Jun 24, 2022 21:54
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DaysBefore posted:Yeah I don't know if I care about the show but the Dance has a bunch of pretty interesting characters and some neat twists and turns (and, correct me if I'm wrong, like WAY less rape. More incest though so like... gently caress). I haven't read about the Dance in a while but I don't remember nearly as much hosed-up sexual content, though I don't put it past HBO to add some; the focus of the story is mainly on "this is how the dragons died out." Even the Targaryen incest was mostly limited to Rhaenyra's marriages, and it's heavily implied that her Velaryon husband was gay and their marriage was a sham from day 1. kaworu posted:I’ve been fairly excited ever since it was first reported that Matt Smith was cast in the role of Daemon Targaryen - because if there’s a charismatic anti-hero from The Dance of the Dragons it’s definitely him. My question is, if they recognize Daemon as "this show's Tyrion," will they keep in his actual dark deeds (the murder of Jaehaerys, the underage (I think?) lover) or will they lighten those the way they did to keep Tyrion the sympathetic main character?
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Jul 21, 2022 13:48
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kaworu posted:Maybe GRRM intended her to be 15 or 16 and it's just that I mentally age up his characters to be less grossed out, and expect others to as well. Yeah, I just looked her up, she's 15–16 when the Dance begins. So she'll probably be mid-20s on the show. DaysBefore posted:I don't think I've seen Aegon II once in these trailers tbh, I get the feeling this will really be the Rhaenyra and Daemon show more than anything. Aegon is apparently a recurring character and not an opening-credits actor, so your instinct is probably correct. Viserys is Paddy Considine, who's always great, though.
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Jul 22, 2022 12:33
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el_brio posted:Haven't checked in here in several years. Has the fat gently caress finished the books yet? From July 8: Pennsylvanian posted:
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Aug 19, 2022 13:44
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How about Jaime instead of Jamie?
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Aug 20, 2022 17:05
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Quick note: Emma D'Arcy uses they/them.
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Aug 22, 2022 20:40
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:It’s just too funny that GRRM thinks he has any right to bemoan the show loving up “his ending” when he can’t write it himself despite being only constrained by the written word and not a colossal multi continent television production. Yeah, GRRM doesn't have an ending; he has an idea that has changed in the past, will change in the future, and isn't an ending until he writes it. He doesn't get to whine.
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Aug 29, 2022 12:57
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bone emulator posted:Was the Dragon House show any good? I'm still only about seven eps in, and... it's OK? Considine and Smith are legitimately terrific, nothing's been poor so far, but everyone's an rear end in a top hat and not in the fun "pick your favorite schemer" way, and knowing where it's going, it feels like it's taking a long loving time to get there.
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Apr 12, 2023 15:14
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emanresu tnuocca posted:at the end of the day it doesn't have much artistic merit on its own and it really shows at points, like every single mention of "the prophecy" automatically falls flat for me I finally watched episode 8 and, yeah, holy poo poo. If they're really going with "Alicent gave up her ambition and was ready to forgive and move on, but a dying, delirious Viserys mistook her for Rhaenyra and told her a tiny fraction of THE PROPHECY she didn't understand and now she wants a civil war instead," that's just impossibly stupid and I can't take it seriously. TeaJay posted:Viserys' entrance to the throme room was very memorable for me, on par with some of the better scenes from GoT. This, however, was fantastic. The one last opportunity for Daemon to show he really is the loving brother he's always said he was, and he does it perfectly. And if my understanding is correct, Smith improvised that when the crown fell off, Considine immediately went along with it, and then they regrouped with the director and said "we don't know how you feel about that, but we loved it?"
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Apr 21, 2023 13:36
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KellHound posted:Also stupid is when she goes in that consel room. She comes in and is like hey so we gotta put my son on the throne. Her dad's crew is like "right here's the plan we've been working on for years" and then she lectures them for plotting behind the king's back and also didn't know about it. It seems like they can't make up their minds on if she is pushed into this by the patriarchy or if she is super ambitious. A lot of the characters are super inconsistent. Yeah, I thought the finale was very good, but the second-to-last episode had a lot of problems, mostly around Alicent's characterization. She's been ambitious for almost 20 years, then she gives it up after one good night with the family, but she interprets Viserys's dying ramblings as him changing his mind about the succession and cannot be convinced otherwise? And then she's horrified to learn that her allies have been plotting exactly what she says she wants, because they've been plotting it longer than the two minutes since they learned of Viserys's death? It'd make way more sense if she were just taking it as a flimsy justification for her ambitions. The show knows that, because everyone else from Otto on down is like, "yay, right on time, it's a flimsy justification for our ambitions!" But she's insistent every time that it's not a justification, it's her carrying out her husband's dying wish, even though literally nobody, including Aegon himself, believes her. It feels like they want you to have sympathy for Alicent and to believe that she believes she's doing the right thing. But if that's what they wanted, it would have been far better to just lean into "she's being pushed into this by the men around her and wants to resist but has no leverage," instead of having her be completely on board with crowning Aegon at any cost and only quibbling with whether or not to murder Rhaenyra and her sons. Mostly it feels like they want HotD to be just like GoT in the sense that there were multiple straightforward sides for the fans to decide were "right:" are you a Stark supporter, a Lannister, did you stick with Stannis even though we ruined everything about his character, are you still pining for Renly with Brienne, etc.? And they softened a lot of characters to create sympathetic viewpoints for the fans. So with HotD they're like "it's the Greens and the Blacks, pick your side!" But they're struggling because unlike ASoIaF, which had likable characters or at least characters with justifiable actions on all of those sides that the show could then soften, they're doing this with the Dance of the Dragons, which is explicitly an "everyone loving suuuuuuucks" story. You can't soften Rhaenyra and Alicent equally, because Rhaenyra's the rightful heir and the viewer knows it. So their attempt to do so just comes off as them saying "Rhaenyra's even more of the "good guy" in this, while Alicent's still the devious usurper, she just feels sad about it." TERFherder posted:It stopped being normal way long before that. It was an issue in like the late 90s. I get that it takes people a while to adapt, but I think you have to be 65+, or work in certain industries to still be doing the double space thing. Basically it says to me: Old person or Lawyer. In fairness, maybe "Screenwriter" or "Author" falls under that category, but it still loving feels like I'm getting dirt in my eye whenever I see it. I learned to double-space in the 2000s, and I'm neither an old nor a lawyer. I think the timing of it getting phased out varied by location.
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Apr 26, 2023 12:32
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von Metternich posted:people melting down about how HE DOESNT OWE YOU ANYTHING I HOPE HE NEVER RELEASES WOW. I have good news for these people!
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May 12, 2023 13:16
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Evil Fluffy posted:I could see Bran being ok with Queen Sansa because there are very high odds she never has an heir given her mountain of trauma, particularly at Ramsay's hands, and that the North will end up his anyways either directly or because Sansa's successor will be a puppet. Sansa, as I recall, has never met Ramsay in the books, and definitely hasn't been traumatized by him.
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Jun 5, 2023 21:54
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