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quote:The problem with Brienne is A) She's not a very good character - we're reminded seemingly every other page how ugly, stubborn, naive, and awkward she is, with virtually no redeeming qualities outside of her fairly simple-minded view of what constitutes loyalty (and even that is pretty weak, considering she originally was on a different side from the Starks/North). This makes her a hard character to sympathize with, compared to, say, Tyrion, who in some ways is even more hosed by life than Brienne but is a vastly more interesting character. I didn't find that to be true at all. She's much more compassionate than most POV characters, and I found the stories of how most men had treated her her entire life, and the way she latches onto the few who show her any kind of kindness no matter ho obviously unavailable they are, to make for a really tragic and interesting mix when combined with her insistence on doing what she perceives as the right thing. I also find her to be a pretty compelling deconstruction of a fantasy archetype that usually doesn't get this kind of scrutiny. Brienne is a good character trapped in a story that serves a thematic purpose but essentially no plot purpose. quote:B) She's on a mission for the entire book that the reader knows is completely pointless, as we know exactly where the Stark girls are at all times This is true, and is a major failing. quote:and C) the traveling circus she meets up with along the way (the Mad Mouse, Pod, random hedge knights) are a spectacularly boring lot. My favorite chapter of hers is when she runs in to Randyl Tarly, because while he may be a gigantic prick he at least has some personality (along with a reason for being a prick - say what you will about him, he knows he's in charge and so does everyone else). Who the gently caress doesn't like Pod? Pod owns. His stammering of "Ser Milady" kills me every time, although that may just be because I imagine him as Michael Cera circa his Arrested Development years.
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Jul 7, 2011 01:43
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No, but it became way more annoying as he got older and didn't mature, just as Pod is currently awesome but will become much less so if he completely fails to grow and is still a stammering nebbish a few years down the line.
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Jul 7, 2011 02:01
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quote:We'll agree to disagree on this one. She's too much like Eddark Stark in that her stubbornness to do whatever she perceives as "right" ends up doing far more harm than good, and she lacks Eddards human qualities - like his love for his children, and wife, which are genuine, unlike Brienne, who's only love was Renly and was more of a crush than anything else. Fair enough, but I think he hammers home Tyrion's ugliness/dwarfness (by which I mean also all of the myriad emotional issues he has because of this), or Jaime's handlessness, or Sam's fatness/cowardliness, or Theon's stupidity/douchiness, or any of his other POV character's primary flaws, just as much as he focuses on Brienne's flaws. And she is very Nedlike in a lot of ways--I suppose for readers who found Ned hard to like thats a flaw, but I've always had a soft spot for those kinds of characters. But, as you say, agree to disagree. quote:The problem with Pod is that he has so far been a gimmick, with one Deux Ex Machina moment. Yes, his stammering was amusing....in 2000, in ASOS. Now he's basically playing the exact same role for Brienne as he did for Tyrion, and suffers for it, because he went from some of the best chapters in the series to the worst. I don't dislike him, I just don't find him to be very interesting as a character. We get it, he's a shy, lonely, confused young kid thrust in to events too big for him; in a series that has a character like Arya Stark he doesn't hold up well, in my opinion. If everyone was Arya, Arya wouldn't be as awesome. But Pod, despite his non-Aryaness, is cool. Yes, there's the "awkward geek" aspect which Martin usually plays for laughs, but he's also brave as hell, much smarter than he initially seems, and committed both to improving himself and to trying to do the right thing. One gets the sense with Pod that he's on his own hero's journey of sorts, but he's just such a shy little nerd that nobody's noticing because its happening in the corners of the narrative and he never calls attention to it.
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Jul 7, 2011 02:18
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I work for Random House, though in an entirely separate imprint, and the people I know who've gotten copies say its definitely better than Feast so far and maybe better than Clash. Dunno how much that counts for, except I'm deliriously excited, much more than I thought I'd be. The show reminded me of everything I love about this series, and the promise of a real loving up-to-par installment in the series with all these characters I love honestly has me losing my poo poo a little bit.
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Jul 7, 2011 02:35
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quote:But overall, Dance is mostly set-up. Again. I don't see why thats inherently a bad thing-Clash is almost nothing but setup. It has one bigass battle at the end, but apart from that its almost entirely just moving characters into position, peppered with awesome character moments. I mean, as much as I love Tyrion as Hand and all his scheming, in the overall plot sense its almost entirely unimportant except for a few of the betrothals he brokers--it is what you call "set-up", and set-up that doesn't amount to much until the end of Book 3 and into Book 4. Jon, Dany, Arya...all the big fan favorites spend the entirety of Clash just moving into position so that the seeds are laid for Jon to join the Wildlings and so Dany will see the HoU prophecy and Arya gets her faceless man coin. But without Clash, there's no Storm, and moreover Clash itself is a really good read regardless of how set-uppy it is.
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Jul 7, 2011 12:57
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quote:I just finished ASoS. Does AFFC really suck that badly or is it mostly just because of the Brienne parts? Wondering if it's better to just skip it and move on to Dance when it comes out No it really doesn't suck that badly, except if its all you have to go on for over a decade. Read at a normal pace, as part of a series sandwiched between Storm and Dance, Feast is fine--a few missteps (aka Darkstar), but there's some really good stuff in there as well, and it lays a lot of really interesting plot groundwork.
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Jul 7, 2011 13:05
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Well, the early reviews are really, really good. http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,2081774,00.html#ixzz1RQp4RHNe http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ire-series.html http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/07/06/dance-with-dragons/ quote:In 2005 I wrote a review of George R. R. Martin's novel A Feast for Crowsin which I called him "the American Tolkien." The phrase has stuck to him, as it was meant to. I believed Martin was our age and our country's answer to the master of epic fantasy. Now it's six years later, and I've read Martin's new novel, A Dance with Dragons, and I'm happy to report that I was totally right. quote:Is Dance better than Book 4? quote:A Dance With Dragons, the longest of the installments of A Song of Ice and Fire to date, might also be Martin’s finest work yet, a taut and relentless masterpiece. Seems people--even those who readily admit the weaknesses of Feast--like it a lot and think its definitely up there with the first 3 (though the reports I've heard from fellow readers tend to agree with the EW assessment that it might be better than Clash but doesn't top Game or Storm). The fact that I'll be able to judge for myself in a few days still blows my mind. literallyincredible fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Jul 7, 2011 |
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Jul 7, 2011 19:27
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yeah I don't really get the Stark/Bolton dynamic. "Oh this one family is unequivocally evil and act like they should be in Mordor and constantly scheme against us and plot to cut off our skin like serial killers...so we treat them like any other trusted bannermen."
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Jul 8, 2011 02:12
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To anyone bitching about the book not being good because it doesn't move the plot forward enough, especially in regard to Jon, Dany and Tyrion, explain to me how Clash of Kings is any different. Clash of Kings is 95% setup for later stuff, plus a cool battle with magic napalm.
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Jul 12, 2011 00:13
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Finished it. Liked it much, much better than Feast, about as much as Clash except for Blackwater, not as much as Game or Storm. If it had ended with a bigass climax ala Clash I'd have been even happier, but even so I really enjoyed it. I loved pretty much all the stuff in the north. Jon, Davos, Theon, Asha/Stannis, Bran...all of this poo poo was pure gold. The Manderlies are loving awesome. Bran has never been this cool in any other book--I especially loved the Coldhands stuff, but really all of it was pretty great. I knew I was gonna like the Jon plot from the Janos beheading onward, and I did, although I don't believe for a moment he's really dead. Really liked the earlier stuff on the Eastern continent, up to about the midpoint of the book, then felt it lost steam. Still not sure what the point of Quentyn was, and Meereen in general is pretty weaksauce. I did like the way Dany's relationships with her dragons evolved though. Daario was annoying, but I expect if we'd had a Robb POV while he was loving everything up with Jeyne Westerling, we'd have found that just as infuriating. I didn't think it devalued her character or made me respect her less, I just took it as one of the many, many otherwise talented and capable people who make really loving stupid decisions when it comes to love. Hell, Tyrion's just as stupid, and infinitely creepier, when it comes to Shae and nobody gets on him about that. I really liked both the prologue and the epilogue. Obviously Varys returning was awesome, but the insights into Wargs were cool as well. The Others/Wights continue to be a lot scarier than zombies have any right to be. The scene of Bran/Hodor (Who I now call Brodor) trying to cross to the cave and then coming up from under...creepy poo poo. As was the description of the dead things in the water. The Boltons are really good villains. Ramsay's pathetic brand of creepiness, and Roose's psychotic brand of parenting, make them seem like a sitcom from some alternate dimension of pure evil. I wasn't sold on Jon Connington at first, but I really dug him once we got his POV. Aegon didn't impress me too much, but then I suspect he was never intended to by Martin--if Dany and Jon's plotlines this book taught us anything, its that the noble young person of great destiny doesn't necessarily make for a great ruler, and Aegon is even less experienced than they. Plus, I think he's probably a fake. I enjoyed Tyrion on the river, but the slavery thing felt like a detour, a way to keep him from meeting Dany until Martin's ready. Overall like I said I'd rank it about on par with all of Clash except for the Blackwater, definitely above Feast. I really did enjoy it a lot, and there are some characters and scenes in this book that have instantly vaulted pretty high up on my list of personal favorites. All that said, more stuff happened here than Feast...but, much like Clash, this still had the feel of setup. Of course, all that setup in Clash built to the awesomeness that was Storm, which in hindsight makes Clash seem stronger. If the next book sees poo poo really hitting the fan ala Storm, I suspect I'll regard Dance as fondly as I do Clash... But if we get another book of setup after this, then the issues I had with Dance will be further exacerbated. Basically, this felt very much like one piece of a larger story. For the most part, it was a piece I enjoyed a lot. But ultimately my opinion of it will depend on how the larger story ultimately is resolved (if it is at all...). If Book 6 is like Storm 2.0, proving payoff for all the Chekhov's guns in Feast and Dance, thats all well and good. If book 6 is more Meereenese politics and Brienne dicking around, not so much.
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Jul 17, 2011 00:36
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That said, I will agree with Martin on one thing... One way or another, the story of this period had to be told. Maybe it could have had less Brienne, and the Ironborn could have easily been cut down to one POV, and the Dorne stuff could have been cut a bit... But by and large, most of this was not timeskippable stuff. If book 4 had started up, "Its several years later. Jon was stabbed to death, Dany is down to one dragon and no army, Aegon is back and invading, Stannis may or may not be dead fighting the Boltons, Bran is a super warg and Arya is a super assassin and Sam's probably learning wizard poo poo in oldtown, etc. etc." I, and I think nearly every other fan of the books, would have absolutely called bullshit on that as the next step following Storm. As it is, I bought it. I buy Jon and Dany's respective downfalls, and the various levels in badass the other kids are taking, and even the Aegon thing. But thats only because Martin put the reader in there and shows us how it happened. If he just skipped ahead so that Book 4 began where Book 6 now will? No, that wouldn't have worked at all, he was definitely right about that.
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Jul 17, 2011 00:44
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also, rereading the prologue and its explanations of how wargs escape death, right after reading the last Jon chapter where he thinks of Ghost, plus that vision Mel sees of him turning into a wolf and back again, would seem to make his fate a little *too* obvious. I dunno if he'll get his own body back again, but one way or another it does seem clear he'll be stashing his soul in Ghost for the time being.
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Jul 17, 2011 01:03
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there's no way a 5 year timeskip works with the Jon plot. Jon's entire plotline is based around events that grow immediately out of the end of storm, and none of them, from Mance's death to dealing with the wildlings to the growing other threat, are things that any of the characters involved would or even could delay for a few years.
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Jul 17, 2011 03:34
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quote:Also tired of him introducing new characters that don't do anything. As someone else mentioned, Asha's entire plot was told in Bolton's letter. Quentyn could have had two chapters: him showing up and getting denied by Dany, and then him trying to tame the dragon. Not sure if I agree with the "all the new characters suck" thing. For one thing, most of the "new" characters people dislike aren't new. Asha/Victarion are POV characters from previous books. Quentyn is new in a sense, but he's also basically the direct continuation of a Feast plot. Who else? Well, Penny and all the Tyrion-slavery characters are weak. So are most of the Meereenese, but again the worst of those (Daario) is not, in fact, a new character. But the Manderlys? Awesome. Jon Connington? Once we got into his head, he was awesome. Aegon is not awesome, but I suspect that is very much the point. Bloodraven/3 eyed crow? Awesome. And while spending more time with Asha/Victarion didn't make them more interesting, the Theon stuff with the Boltons was great. and the POVs that gave us new insight into characters we've only seen in limited roles before, aka Barristan and Melisandre? Awesome. Non-Theon Ironborn suck, as do non-Oberyn Dornishmen, as do the Meereenese. Everyone else, characters both new and old, were pretty cool.
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Jul 17, 2011 04:09
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quote:He said this because he was friends with Robert Jordan and resented when nerds decided to attack him using the death of somebody he knew personally as a motivator. It was still a baby tantrum to throw but now that poo poo has passed I doubt it was meant seriously. Yeah if someone said something to me to the effect of "you better not gently caress your job up like your good friend did by dying" I'd likely tell them to gently caress themselves as well.
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Jul 17, 2011 04:12
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quote:I'm nervous Martin doesn't have the indepth notes that Jordan left, which has helped make Sanderson's WoT so good. But the dialogue is the main thing. Martin can write a chapter that is literally nothing but a conversation (like all the Davos chapters in Dance) and it can really, really work. Nobody else in fantasy can pull that off consistently. I suspect it has something to do with Gurm's long career as a screenwriter, because writing for TV well is 95% writing good dialogue. If he dies, I hope the showrunners finish it because the show is a drat good thing in its own right. But I actually don't want another author trying to do their best Martin impression. literallyincredible fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Jul 17, 2011 |
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Jul 17, 2011 04:33
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quote:I don't know if you guys are trolling or serious when you say stuff like this. Is your position honestly that GRRM tells stories in a way that stands head & shoulders above other writing and that if he died no one could take his place in fantasy? yes. in fiction overall? no, but I dont think there any serious non-fantasy novelists who'd do it anyway (I think Michael Chabon's mentioned he's a fan of the books--but if you think Chabon's putting his career on hold to finish someone else's series you're nuts). But compared to Hobb, Rothfuss, Abercrombie, Lynch, Sanderson, Tad Williams, China Mieville and pretty much every other living fantasy writer, yes Martin's dialogue is head and shoulders above theirs, and frankly most other aspects of his writing are as well.
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Jul 17, 2011 05:22
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quote:I'd put Steven Erikson on par with GURM on dialog (kruppe rules) and higher with respect to world building. More importantly he actually treats writing as a job and puts books out of the length of DWD every year or so, instead of making readers wait 6 years between books. Steven Erikson wrote 10 of those Malazan books and didn't manage to produce a single memorable line in *any* of them. He is drat good at plotting/world-building, and has some cool characters and is *certainly* produces content a lot faster, but no, his dialogue is bog-standard fantasy level. Seriously, the 3rd Davos chapter in Dance alone has more good lines than there are in any Malazan book. edit: Put another way, the Game of Thrones TV series took most of its dialogue directly from the books (though there was of course some cutting/rearranging), and it made for drat fine television, on the level of most critically acclaimed HBO-style dramas. I don't think you could do the same for any other fantasy author and get results half as good. literallyincredible fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Jul 17, 2011 |
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Jul 17, 2011 05:54
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quote:
who is gonna seek vengeance? by that point Jon has sent away everyone who trusts and respects him. and Bowen Marsh just wants nothing to change. Not only doesn't he want wildlings on the wall, he even gets pissed when Jon promotes lowborn dudes to positions higher than Bowen thinks they deserve. If he was in charge, they'd just close up the wall, change nothing, and stick their fingers and their eyes saying "lalala" while the Others mass up. the others may not be that extreme, but they're not far off--for the Night's Watch, rules and tradition are everything, the wildlings have been their enemy forever, and Jon is seeking to upend all that. No matter how good his reasons, thats gonna make some enemies, and though Jon makes smart moves in some ways one really, really dumb move he makes is not surrounding himself with close allies.
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Jul 17, 2011 16:33
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quote:So, can Drowned Men blow the dragon horn without dying, since they are already "dead," or is the Drowned God just all full of poo poo? Maybe Damphair (though I really hope not, cause Damphair is the worst) but most of the "drowned men" seem to be basically guys who either got cpr (if they were really "drowned") or who got baptized (if they're one of the nobles Damphair has contempt for). As for actual dead people, Lady Stoneheart can't breathe, neither does Coldhands. My money is on Jon once he gets rezzed. quote:Bran is boring and static at the moment The Bran chapters in this book are easily the best chapters he's ever had. Actually meeting Bloodraven>>>3-eyed Crow dreams, and Coldhands is infinitely cooler than the likes of Osha or the Walders.
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Jul 17, 2011 16:38
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Aurubin posted:Perhaps I don't know good literature, but I found the Bran chapters boring. I think it's because I like this series for its character interactions rather than the mythology, and oddly enough for a fantasy series, don't enjoy the parts with overt fantastical elements. YVMV of course, but I don't know how anyone could fail to enjoy the first couple Bran chapters where they're walking around with Coldhands, and then have to walk across that hill to the cave and it turns out the ground is actually just zombies. That was probably the best "supernatural horror" segment the books have ever had, and Coldhands is the poo poo. quote:I really can't explain why but I think my favorite chapters were Connington's. I guess I'm just eager to see where that story goes. I dunno about favorite, but Connington is cool as hell. I didn't like him in Tyrion's POV because Tyrion keeps comparing him to his dad like a whiny teenager, but once we got in Connington's head, the dude owns. Between Barristan and Connington, I've begun to suspect that Martin is at his very best writing badass old men.
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Jul 17, 2011 16:51
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quote:I'm eager to see what will happen to Aegon to make him less of a perfect prince Aegon is nowhere near a perfect prince and its pretty obvious throughout Dance. He's pretty and well-educated and a good swordsmen, but he has zero political or military acumen and its obvious that for all Varys insists Aegon doesn't see the throne as his "right", that the dude is seriously entitled. The scene where Tyrion owns him at cyvasse while explaining all the flaws in his plan of action, and its obvious Aegon hasn't even thought about this poo poo, is really illuminating.
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Jul 17, 2011 16:53
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the one thing that makes me think Aegon might not be fake is that Varys portrays him as legit before he kills Kevan. why lie to a dead man?
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Jul 17, 2011 17:22
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quote:Also, on the list of things I really liked about DWD: Janos Slynt getting shortened by a head. I think pretty much everyone loved that part. Even the people who didn't much like Dance thought that scene was great.
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Jul 17, 2011 17:39
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John Scalzi (who I've actually never read) has a post with some perspective on Dance.quote:George Martin’s previous novel, A Feast for Crows, came out in 2005, the same year as my novel Old Man’s War. Since OMW, I have written The Ghost Brigades, The Last Colony, Zoe’s Tale, Fuzzy Nation, and my upcoming 2012 novel (Agent to the Stars and The Android’s Dream were written prior to 2005). Martin’s written A Dance With Dragons. So I get credited with being reasonably prolific whilst Martin gets slammed by the more poorly socialized members of his fan base for slacking about. I'm an editor for Random House (though a different imprint than publishes Gurm). Generally, when we sign up an author for a new novel that has yet to be written, we plan for a schedule of one year to write a 100,000 word novel, but it is not at *all* uncommon for authors to end up needing more time than that. *Nobody* would bat an eye at an author taking a year and a half to write 100,000 words. Well, 4*1.5 years=6 years, for 400,000 words, or pretty much exactly the pace Martin wrote Dance at (yes, yes, I'm aware he already had some material left over from Feast, but nobody but Martin and his editor knows how much of that ended up making it into Dance--it seems clear that there was a *lot* of rewriting in the process). The crazy thing isn't that Dance took as long as it did, its that he cranked out Clash and Storm at a pace that most authors would consider impossibly fast. If Martin's pace makes him "lazy", then the majority of authors are just as "lazy". So, I'm not at all angry at Martin for taking as long as he did, and I suspect his editor isn't either, though I don't know her personally. What *does* worry me though is that, while Martin may have written this book at roughly the same pace most authors write at... Most authors aren't obese 60+ year old men with 50,000 chekhov's guns to resolve. I'm not mad at the dude, but I am pretty loving worried he's gonna die before we get to see what happens.
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Jul 17, 2011 17:50
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quote:Also, as far as the coin Arya gave the guy, I just assumed it's magic. These guys can put faces of dead people on other people, nothing says they can't have special coins that kill people. I think there was just poison on it, since such a point was made of how he bits the coins. One definite theme in these books seems to be that, while magic exists, most practitioners combine it with mundane techniques to seem more powerful than they are. Like, faceless men can change faces, but driving Weese's dog crazy was obviously just a poison mentioned in Feast. Melisandre does have some powers, but she uses trickery and an enigmatic persona to seem much more powerful/knowledgeable than she is.
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Jul 17, 2011 18:08
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I'm not sure the right/duty stuff means much anyway. Stannis thinks of ruling as a duty, and he's an uncharismatic tool who everyone hates. I mean, I love the dude as a character, but its clear that being a good king is more than just having the right perspective.
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Jul 17, 2011 18:16
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quote:Actually, given that Stannis is an utter dick, I wonder how he gets the most loyal people in the realm. Cressen drank poison trying to save Stannis from Melisandre, and then there's Davos. Cressen raised him up from a sensitive kid who got overshadowed by his brothers, and he made Davos a knight (and later a lord) and he sticks to principles in a way Davos respects. Melisandre has deluded herself regarding her prophecies. Nobody else is especially loyal to Stannis.
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Jul 17, 2011 18:26
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quote:I wonder if Marwyn is going to get a PoV in TWoW. Christ there's so many concurrent plots running in this series. How the hell does he keep track of them? on my reread of the series I was kinda shocked how much Marwyn gets mentioned. Its also notable that *every* person who cites him as a mentor is an evil gently caress who uses horrible necromancy and blood magic. I'm 100% positive he's set to be a villainous figure. literallyincredible fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jul 17, 2011 |
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Jul 17, 2011 18:50
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Xander77 posted:Oh? I don't remember that. The two people who cite Marwyn as a teacher are Mirri Maaz Dur and Qyburn. The former isn't pure evil, but the magic she performs definitely seems pretty twisted, and Qyburn is like Josef Mengele with magic powers.
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Jul 17, 2011 19:43
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quote:Am I crazy for saying this book suffered without Sansa/Littlefinger? I liked the Sansa chapters in Feast, but much like Sam, we have a pretty good sense of what is happening with that plotline during the events of Dance. We know LF's master plan, we know it will take some time to pull off, and we know that in the meantime he's got the Vale pretty well in hand.
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Jul 17, 2011 19:58
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Yeah the sales figures are sick. So are the reviews. The New York Times review is basically the most over the top rave I've ever seen (emphasis added):quote:In a Fantasyland of Liars, Trust No One, and Keep Your Dragon Close I mean jesus. I loved the book and even I think its a bit extreme. Still, all bullshit aside, purely from a cultural phenomena standpoint, with the HBO show with at least one (and likely more, with how huge this book is) season to come, this has the potential to be like a Da Vinci code/Twilight/Girl with the Dragon Tattoo level hit. I'd mention Harry Potter but honestly nothing is ever gonna touch HP sales figures. Still, George is in good company, saleswise at least. literallyincredible fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jul 17, 2011 |
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Jul 17, 2011 23:29
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what happens in Clash? Renly--who was an incredibly minor character in the first book and really only shows up for 5 chapters in the second--dies. Theon--who was also a minor character in the first book--gets captured and burns Winterfell (but not so badly that it can't just be restored eventually). Tyrion spends a lot of time scheming to what basically amount to a few bureaucratic appointments and some marriage proposals. Sansa gets treated like poo poo for hundreds of pages, Arya dicks around in Harrenhall, Bran hates on the Walders for a bit and then gets "killed" but not really. Stannis, who was only introduced in book 2 anyway, loses a fight, but escapes and so does Davos. Cat tries and fails at making alliances, then goes nuts cause shes sad and lets Jaime go for no good reason. In other news, when you reduce pretty much *any* book to a list of bullet point events its gonna sound stupid. A 5 hours play of a guy procrastinating about killing his uncle? Who would possibly enjoythat?
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Jul 20, 2011 04:12
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who's motivations didn't make sense? Dany was stupid with Daario, but that was supposed to be stupid, in much the same way Robb was a moron when it came to Jeyne. Certainly, her fixation on slavery was not out of character for her as previously portrayed. Jon was perfectly in character. Using his greater understanding of the Wildlings, acquired in SoS, to try to save the Watch from itself, while all the while the growing tension of his beloved little sister languishing in the clutches of a monster grows, until finally he breaks when he seems like her only hope. This isn't "Robb is riding off to war" or even "Ned gets executed". Jon is in a position to do something about Arya in a way he isn't for any of the others. Tyrion is basically a broken person at this point, which makes sense given what happened to him at the end of Storm. Theon's arc in the book was loving incredible.
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Jul 20, 2011 04:43
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quote:Ned Stark made excellent decisions in just a single day on the throne as Hand. Lol what? Ned massively hosed himself over and laid the seeds of his house's demise on his day as hand. He guaranteed war with the Lannisters while passing up a chance to secure an alliance with the Tyrells by sending Loras after the Mountain, as Loras is a hothead bent on making and legend for himself and dumbass Mace would certainly back his son up.
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Jul 21, 2011 03:22
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Sure, but there was no way he would have forseen that coming up. Sending Loras was a no-brainer political move that he passed up because at the end of the day he's "just a soldier" as show Cersei would put it.
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Jul 21, 2011 03:44
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I get the sense there's a lot we don't know about the Faceless Men. So, they'r priests of murder, but they don't judge or apparently take any real interest in whats going on around them, except to catalogue info for use when people ask them to kill. I mean, whats the point? What do they believe their accomplishing, and why? "We kill people because we're the guys who kill people, and other than that we dont care about anything" isnt how any person or group actually operates. Jaquen's actions are perhaps the only clue we have as to their true motivations. Its not much, but the interest in Marwyn (and by extension, magic and perhaps the magic/science divide in general) is at least some indication that they do, in fact, have some actual goals.
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Jul 24, 2011 02:28
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quote:Don't Littlefinger and Varys discuss how much they cost when they think about sending them after Dany? If so, then they're in it for the money too. Sure, but to what end? They don't seem interested in any of the things people usually want money for--they lead lives free of luxury (or really even basic human connection) and seek no power over other men despite obviously having the means to take it. I mean, I'm sure their magic serial killer labyrinth of faces costs some money to maintain and all, but not that much, and even that is not a motivation--"they charge a lot to kill people so they can afford the resources to be so good at killing that they can charge a lot" still makes no sense as the operating motivation of an organization that entrenched and powerful. Everyone want something--what do the Faceless Men want?
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Jul 24, 2011 06:26
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goddamn Stannis is awesome. He reminds me of Severus Snape in his ability to make priggish douchebaggery bizarrely compelling (though Snape stood out more because ASOIAF has a higher number of interesting, complicated characters with decent dialogue than HP did). That chapter owned--which isn't surprising given that all the Theon chapters in Dance were loving great.
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Dec 30, 2011 00:20
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Fog Tripper posted:You know what I care about? My signed first editions decreasing in value. Uh...I just checked and Dance with Dragons is well over 400k copies sold, and bookscan both undercounts hard copy sales and doesn't factor in ebooks, so the reality is almost certainly over 600k. With sales like that, and NYTimes reviewer quotes like "Martin is the next Balzac or Dickens", I guarantee you any signed first editions you have are worth a helluva lot more now than they were, say, right after Storm was published (i.e. before the "controversial" books started coming out).
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Dec 30, 2011 02:05
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