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ASoIaF has always brutally deconstructed the typical fantasy story. If we go with history, Valyria, Aegon's conquest, event Dany's dragons, dragons are loving terrifying. We only have 2-3 brief sentences from Marwyn on the matter, but if true, I'm with the Maesters. gently caress magic. If that makes me a villain in this story, I'll twirl my mustache and cackle manically.
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Aug 11, 2011 06:50
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Well Jon did betray Mance. And from a more militant wildling perspective, Stannis and Jon have essentially enslaved his people. Mance was pragmatic enough to accept Melisandre's help, but in truth, we really don't know that much about his personality. He had to be both charismatic and flexible enough to unite the disparate wildling tribes, so this implies a certain amount of cunning at the least. He did beat the poo poo out of Jon when disguised as Rattleshirt. Who knows? He may be vindictive enough to try and goad Jon into a suicide mission. Still, this is all really far fetched. Fun to talk about, and it staves off the inevitable rape and lemoncakes talk for another day.
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Aug 11, 2011 22:04
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They cut his chin fat. White adipose tissue isn't heavily vascularized, it's the reason gladiators were a little meaty, extra padding. As for the Dream of Spring, it would certainly be masochistically satisfying to see the bad guy win, but with the exception of books that are trying to make a statement, say, 1984, how many books end like that? GRRM isn't Lovecraft, and by the internal mythology, the Others have been defeated once already, and it doesn't seem like they've improved their tactics since then..
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Aug 12, 2011 00:10
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Sandor with a crippled leg versus the necromantic golem of his stronger brother. I thought the idea was that Sandor finally worked through his death wish.
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Aug 13, 2011 07:41
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2 cripples vs an unfeeling killing machine. Taking all bets!
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Aug 13, 2011 08:32
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While I lean more heavily towards the "armored like the sun" dude being, for whatever inconceivable reason, Jamie, it does leave the option open for a dornishman. Though the only warrior left alive with any real grudge against Clegane is Obara, and she's chasing Darkstar. An alternative theory IMO is that that dream wasn't limited to one time period. A great deal is made about the time traveling nature of greenseeing, perhaps that was a composite dream. Sandor fought Clegane at the tournament, Oberyn at Tyrion's trial, and now he's a headless golem. Taken like that, all the points of the dream have come to pass.
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Aug 13, 2011 22:49
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Eh, the problem is that seeding rumors about his heritage draws attention away from R+L=J, and "Promise me Ned" on a bloody bed really doesn't fit with much else. "Promise me Ned." "I swear Lyanna, I'll get someone to water your garden." For as "organic" as GRRM likes to say his writing is, he's planned all this poo poo out from day one. 15 years of writing with hints coming to fruition 4 books later. I'll bet you one US dollar (or currency equivalent) that it's true. I'll paypal you that one dollar.
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Aug 14, 2011 17:46
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TWoW stuff, so I'm going err on the side of caution and use spoilers. I read a synopsis of the Arianne chapter and the vibe I and others on westeros.org was that Arianne's gonna try and seduce Aegon into marrying her instead. At the end of the chapter she hears that Storm's End has fallen, and goes off to "Meet with this dragon." I don't imagine she'll end up like her (poor bastard) brother, but I'm curious to see how this would play out. Like every other ray of hope for the "good" guys, I'm sure Aegon's power play is going to end in disaster for all involved. That or GRRM's going to subvert the expected subversion, and Aegon will end up on the throne with Arianne and Dany won't mean poo poo. In fact, I think I'd prefer the latter.
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Aug 21, 2011 08:20
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HarveyVdarski posted:So what the gently caress is up with them Maesters? Nobody talks about them but they seem to have this whole 'behind the scenes' Illuminati poo poo going. That guy at the end of feast talks about Aemon getting assassinated hypothetically, and the rumor is that the dragons were like, slowly assraped by maesters through the ages, etc. The Jaquen H'ghar/Alchemist/Pod subplot is probably going to explain this (ambiguosly). And that will be Sam at Hogw...I mean Oldtown. Based on current evidence, and as I've said in prior posts, as it stands I'm with the Maesters. A world free of the depredations of the arcane and the absurd sounds like a better place. Less "magical" but also less poo poo that can burn you to death. This is why the depicition of the dragons made me laugh a little. It was done in a interesting way; they were edgy apex predators with no real ecological niche. So instead of D&D you got those ones from that bad Christian Bale/Matthew Mcconaughey movies.
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Sep 12, 2011 19:18
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While this has been beaten to death in previous pages, GRRM really wrote himself into a corner with Slaver's Bay. To me, it's more a question of ethics than anything else. Dany freed the slaves of Astapor, Yunaki, and Meereen, but not the rest of the area. If she leaves, they'll all be re-enslaved. If she doesn't, well, there goes the plot. How can she justify leaving? Compassion would dictate her abandoning Westeros. The old woman that Jorah and Tyrion spoke with in Volantis remarked how willing the slaves are to revolt, and the Rhllor priesthood are already proclaiming her messianic properties. Whatever my origins, I'd rather have my legacy be the one who smashed the slave trade than a returned exile. It'll be fun if she just devolves into Aerys 2.0, and GRRM uses that justification to get her rear end moving. Either way, I know a quarter of the next book will be dedicated to food descriptions, and I take comfort in that certainty.
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Nov 29, 2011 03:20
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I can't agree with the eloquence of his prose, but I will say his character arcs are great. His ability to show the growth of a character (sometimes literally) over the course of the series is something I can't say I've seen in other series I've read. The lack of focus on one character certainly helps in this matter, but to be honest, it seems hard to evoke sympathy without a glimpse into a characters psyche. Theon and Jaime stand out in this regard. Jaime was really a matter of perspective. On the other hand, Theon's actions were reprehensible, but even after everything he did, I got a warm feeling when his last chapter was "Theon" and not some Reek iteration. I'm not really in a hurry for the series to end, so the length of the books never really bothered me. The journey is the destination and all that, and to be honest, very few fantasy works really have evocative endings. I enjoy all the setting descriptions, conversations, and minor character interactions. The one thing I'm getting sick of are the food descriptions, even taking GRRMs proclivities into account. Fleshing out a world beyond the main characters is something I enjoy, so GRRM scores points in my book. This is off topic, but in the vein of moving endings in fantasy, my favorite example is Planescape: Torment (the game). Not exactly high literature, but again, endings usually fall flat in comparison to their narrative.
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Dec 2, 2011 01:17
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IRQ posted:The cramping in Dany's bowels, the poo poo geyser erupting from her rear end in a top hat, simply glorious prose, it's almost like you're there, hearing it splatter wetly on the plains. In a way, I hope her spat of bloody diarrhea becomes a plot point. I tend to play devil's advocate in forum arguments, but even if there is symbolism or veiled hints to the future, I really don't want to pick it out of poop. (wakka wakka)
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Dec 2, 2011 02:09
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Joramun posted:You mean in terms of foreshadowing a miscarriage or something? Or an arrow to the gut? I glossed over her last chapter to be honest, waiting for the making GBS threads to end. If she had her period that's significant in the way that she's no longer barren, but hell, how could her ability to have kids impact the end of the story? I hope GRRM doesn't use a timeskip, they're a real copout.
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Dec 2, 2011 02:25
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mind the walrus posted:A fantasy corollary to Clarke's third law, "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science." Over analyzing the magic beyond the mysticism, religious trappings, and moral implications isn't really the point. If Melisandre can fart a fireball, it really doesn't matter if the mechanics are explained. I think the inter-connectivity of Martin's world draws more attention to these things, as well as the initial label of "low fantasy". If the magic comes back, it demands explanation. It may be a pertinent plot point near the end of the series, but an absolute explanation would cheapen it in my opinion.
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Dec 2, 2011 04:41
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It's sad in a way that I've resigned myself to the fact that GRRM will most likely die before completeing his fantasy dodecaolgy or however many books it'll take to end it. I came into this series as the last (long) iteration of the bad thread was dying down, and was astonished by the content, not necessarily in a good way. Having "finished" the series and gone through the customary discussions with friends and forumgoers, I now see how something like the bad thread could form. I'm not comfortable with that realization. Somebody write a Ser Robert Strong PI.
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Dec 6, 2011 18:02
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http://www.dorkly.com/article/26731/the-nine-greatest-nerd-fears-today I wonder if Martin gives a gently caress to be honest, I mean, by reputation he's supposed to be the go to guy at conventions, so surely multiple fans have voiced their concerns about his health. Do it for the fans, man, the smelly fans...
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Dec 7, 2011 02:44
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While I haven't yet had the time to develop the sulfuric vitriol that bad thread veterans have, this is a character driven book series. This necessitates long, (from a narrative perspective) uncondensed passages of time to make their development seem organic. Moral ambiguity is hard to show in 200 words or less. That said, less loving food descriptions. I get it, everybody ate lamprey pie in the 1200s, move on.
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Dec 7, 2011 23:59
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Maybe. Maybe not. Who's to say? Brevity is wit.
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Dec 8, 2011 00:34
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In between "studying" for my finals, I was rereading bits and pieces of the series cause I'm a huge nerd. A throwaway line in ASoS by Stannis states something to the effect that he saw "A king whose pointed crown burned to ash, along with the king." He interprets this as his fate should he fail in his appointed task. Since this is still technically a thread for fans of the series, my interpretation of this line in light of the rest of the books and those discussions pertaining to them is that he himself will be the king that will be sacrificed. I won't speculate on whatever deus ex machina effect this might have, but it would work with Stannis' (albeit slow) character development from an entitled dick suffering from middle child syndrome, to a dick willing to sacrifice his personal ambition for the good of the realm. Plus from a literary standpoint it ties up one (of many) hanging plot threads in a neat package.
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Dec 10, 2011 23:18
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zocio posted:Melisandre: Sad part is is that this is probably an illusion. Giant gently caress-off rubies seem to be necessary for magic when the recipe doesn't call for burning somebody, and she's got one around her neck.
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Dec 14, 2011 00:41
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Chipolte_Away posted:Sandor kneeling just as Gregor tries to take his exposed head. Exactly this happens in this episode. There are gifs of it. Type in Sandor vs Gregor in youtube or something, watch closely. Aurubin fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Dec 22, 2011 |
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Dec 22, 2011 02:09
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DrPop posted:I thought that the Children of the Forest only said that "they killed him long ago" and never said anything about an actual time frame The conventional way to imply agelessness or extreme longevity of a mystical race is for their perception of time to be much slower than the POV character's. Plus in 5 books Martin has proven that if he doesn't scream "HE'S DEAD!!!" with the body being used as a door prop then he's probably alive. So Coldhands being Benjen, despite it making absolute sense, is probably false.
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Dec 23, 2011 19:42
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BOOK TALK: Does anyone else have a feeling that Justin Massey, Stannis' knight that's trying to get in every single woman with land's pants, is going to gently caress Stannis over and steal all his Iron Bank money? I can't tell if he's loyal and ambitious or loyal because he's ambitious.
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Jan 13, 2012 22:53
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:The only stupid thing in the first three books is Hodor. While I'm a fan of superfluous characters, I feel they add to the main cast through interaction, I really am curious what sparked the genesis of Hodor. Did he grow as a vehicle solely for carrying bran's crippled rear end, comic relief, a poor design in hindsight? I wish someone would ask Martin why he thought a giant simpleton was a good idea for a tertiary character
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Jan 16, 2012 16:00
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Tangential ADwD talk. GRRM likes food. GRRM describes food a lot. Sometimes it sounds good. Inn at the Crossroads is a site where two women make his food. Sometimes it sounds good. My sister is a chef, I asked her to make sister's stew, which I thought sounded really good. It was a good meal to end a winter vacation before my spring semester. She even baked a black rye bread to use as a "trencher". Moral of the story is that my sister is better than yours.
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Jan 22, 2012 09:37
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Arms_Akimbo posted:Is he the bald dude in the trailer? No that's Nonso Anozie as Xaro Xhoan Daxos. Which I find really weird. Not cause he's black, but because everyone around him is white. I figured they'd add some ethnicity to Qarth, but no, random black dude. That said he plays aloof authority figures well. If anyone saw RocknRolla, he was the character Tank, which I imagine is the way he'll be playing Xaro.
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Feb 4, 2012 02:15
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I came to this series at the announcement of the television series, so I don't have the abiding distaste for Feast as long time fans do, but since Dance follows the same pattern of nothing really happening, I can see where the backdraft came from. In an odd twist of fate, I think Feast would make for interesting television, since even by the standards of the books it's mostly dialogue. While I imagine they would combine seasons, it would be interesting to see Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and (depending on her upcoming performance) Gwendoline Christie take almost main character roles. While I imagine they're gonna cut a lot, the later seasons are going to be a logistical nightmare when it comes to casting.
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Feb 20, 2012 14:40
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I dunno man, Dany's story is still a better deconstruction of the fisher king than most, even in it's unfinished state. She frees the slaves, but manages to destroy the economy of a region. She's young, so she makes stupid decisions that would have far less serious repercussions if she wasn't a drat queen. Despite her exile status, she's still a pampered dandy who really doesn't want to have the onus of hard decisions placed on her. To compare, Dany is naive, Cersei is paranoid. They both comparably gently caress up, but for far different reasons. Plus the values dissonance of the ghiscari compared to westerosi ideals is presented in a reasonable fashion, even if most fans don't give a poo poo. Separated from the context of the fact that's she's been supposedly going west for five books, it's a good story.
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Feb 22, 2012 01:30
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Nonso Anozie will do a fine job as Xaro. If I was to be adventurous, I'd say it's another case of Syrio Forel's casting; character over appearance. I do wish he had face jewelry though, Qarth needs to feel exotic as hell.
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Feb 23, 2012 13:24
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Out of curiosity, has anyone read any of GRRM's other books? While I imagine the Wild Cards label is facetious, every time I see it I remember he does write more than ASoIaF.
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Feb 23, 2012 19:57
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Why didn't Jon tell Bowen Marsh about his loan with the Iron Bank? Starving seems of greater concern than monetary debt. I don't know if this sets up something, or is merely a bit of dialogue that irks me. I'd like wild speculation regardless though.
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Feb 27, 2012 23:52
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IRQ posted:It's not like The Bad Thread hasn't been treading the same ground for about 10 years now or anything. On that note my sister recently made the period style lemoncakes off Inn at the Crossroads. They were ok, but I'm not really into pastries. Also, rape. No incest.
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Feb 28, 2012 00:10
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I'm assuming Victarion is being used as a vehicle to transport the Meerenese subplot to Westeros, plus add his own threading to the already tangled web a la magic dragon horn. In light of this, do you think GRRM will devote time to the Tattered Prince and his Pentos ambitions? It would bring Dany full circle in her journey, assuming he doesn't decide to throw her even further east for some inexplicable reason.
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Feb 29, 2012 00:19
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whowhatwhere posted:
I could claim subtlety in writing but that's never been my style. Bringing her to Pentos and loving it up for the sake of practicality would make sense, if but to continue the lessons Dany is supposed to be learning about the nature of rule. I would honestly laugh if she somehow ends up going to Asshai. But even then I can save save this. Victarion is a Viking expy right? Circumnavigate the world! End up in the Iron Isles from the east, with vivid descriptions of all pastries and salted meats along the way.
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Feb 29, 2012 00:54
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Kind of don't like that they jumped the gun by naming a season two episode "The North Remembers". I imagine it was done to appeal to fans of the book series specifically, but I can't think of a specific context in book two where this title would be appropriate.
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Mar 1, 2012 06:31
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Joramun posted:Perhaps Dany and Aegon VI's inevitable offspring will come out looking sufficiently retarded. Man that article does not use neutral language at all. Guess the guy that wrote it really hated incestueous French nobility.
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Mar 1, 2012 15:17
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When Carcetti was getting accosted by Cersei, they ended that scene by focusing on the little boy scrubbing the floor. Think they'll go into Varys' subplot in more detail than the books? On Varys: Aegon is a Blackfyre, and Illyrio and Varys are playing a larger version of their early con; stealing a kingdom and selling it back to those they stole it from.
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Apr 2, 2012 07:00
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To be a GRRM apologist, Dany doing fuckall for 2 books is a deconstruction of the perfect princess story. She's a foreign conqueror who destabilized the entire world economy. These have serious repercussions, which stall her triumphant return with her ragtag army, if but for moral reasons. She's also an uneducated hormonal teenager, whose naivete has her make rash and ill thought out decisions. At the same time, she has talent, and if she can learn from her mistakes, may actually achieve her ambitions if she's willing to pay the price. Plus the reason for her army's loyalty is actually explained, rather than her having some amazing charismatic aura. Still, I don't have an excuse for an entire chapter devoted to her bowel movements.
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Apr 2, 2012 14:02
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savinhill posted:Mel drank first! Did take a a little bit of the edge off the situation when Cressan started bleeding from the nose. I wonder if they filmed it both ways and decided to use him drinking first, because the sadness of his martyrdom is hard to establish without his internal monologue.
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Apr 2, 2012 16:29
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For how compressed this episode felt it makes me revisit my position on them cutting stuff. For the most part they've just rearranged things, but they've still got the Greyjoys, Dorne, Cersei being an idiot, Jaime and Brienne, Jamie alone, Brienne alone, Arya alone, Sansa alone, Davos alone, Tyrion and Connington, Connington and Aegon, and then Tyrion, Jorah, and Penny. These are the subplots that open in addition to the the already existing Wall, Dany and Stannis subplots. I don't envy the screenwriters after this season.
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Apr 2, 2012 18:55
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