ASoIaF: A Song of Ice and Fire: George Rail Road Martin

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Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Speaking of warg, do we still blame Sam for Maester Aemon's crow shouting "Snow snow snow" during the Lord Commander's election or should we do like everyone else in Westeros and blame everything on Bloodraven?

# ¿ Jul 6, 2011 20:47

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 11:53

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

whowhatwhere posted:

I never read the Dunk and Egg books, would you summarize that bit? I don't recall it showing up in the summaries I read.

The theory is that Ser Maynard Plumm is Bloodraven in some sort of disguise because:
_his face looks blurry to Dunk at one point
_they have the same physic and the same sense of humor, they use the exact same words to describe the tournament ("in this nest of adders") and Plumm defends Bloodraven's politic at some point.
_when Dunk throws down a guy into a well and turns down to see Plumm, it looks like Plumm only got one eye under his hood for a brief second
_when Dunk says that if the rumor about Aegon the Unworthy loving everything with tites were true they would all be Targaryen bastards, Plumm's answers is "Who's to say we're not?".
_Plumm disappears just before Bloodraven appears and Bloodraven seems very well informed of everything that happened during the tournament.
_Bloodraven is rumored to be a mighty sorcerer (well he is, thank you Amazon.de), same for his mistress (and half-targaryen sister) and he is rumored to be everything from a shadowbinder, a warg (dah) and a faceless man.

But it may be pure theorycrafting and Plumm could 'just' be a simple spy.

Also the title is The Mystery Knight. Dunk is a mystery knight in the tournament but both Plumm and Daemon Blackfire are "mystery" knights in their own way. The "son" of Fireball could be considered one too but it may just be because i think he is the edge knight with best origin story ever.

Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Jul 7, 2011

# ¿ Jul 7, 2011 17:57

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Contra Calculus posted:

If Tyrion is seriously a secret Targ, that is the single stupidest loving retcon I have ever heard of in my entire goddamn life.

How is it a retcon:
_mismatched eyes and white-blonde hair that doesn't sound anything like the Lannister
_said he spent hours watching fire and dreaming of dragon when he was young (and he is still reading books about dragons)
_Tywin's distant behavior with him, only showing real interest in him when Jayme is captured and his final "you are no son of mine"
_Aerys promoting Jayme to King's Guard after his birth, making him indirectly the heir to Casterly Rock and Aerys's reaction to his son abducting another great house member to 'apparently rape her'.
_Tywin's sudden resignation as Hand and his later brutal betrayal of the Targaryen, attempting to kill them all (children includes just because they made Jayme a kingsguard? really?).

Well, it could still be a red herring but it's hardly a retcon.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2011 00:44

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Contra Calculus posted:

Good god, Gurm isn't even trying with Ramsay or any of the Boltons really. They're so hilariously over-the-top. Seriously, they live in a place called "The Dreadfort," they have a family tradition of skinning people and then wearing their skins, and they have a loving flayed man as their house sigil. Top it all off by having them murder/torture some of the main characters and there you go. Remember when he wrote villainous characters that were still somewhat sympathetic?

The thing is i think GRRM is obviously building up Ramsay as Sansa's main antagonist in the North. Yeah now we just need Sandor Clegane Knight of the Cart and we have the whole Good Virginal Queen/Evil Rapist Lord/Brave White Knight package for Sansa to live a real fairy tale* story. But for the first three books i suspected that GRRM was going to use Gregor as the Evil Rapist Lord, so i guess it may be wishful thinking from my part.

*because GRRM knows good fairy tales are all about RAPE.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2011 19:25

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Ray_ posted:

1. Jon Connington seems to think so. He specifically thinks "I failed the father (Rhaegar) but I won't fail his son." It's possible that Varys deceived him, of course, but he'd have to find another child extremely close in age and with the Targ coloring. Not only that, but he'd have to have known for certain that the kid would develop the Targ coloring since obviously hair color isn't showing as an infant. Not an easy thing to come by, and that'd an awfully long and dangerous con Varys would be running.

The Golden Company was formed by Targaryen "Great Bastards" and most of them probably still have the Valerian look. For all we know Jon/Varys and the Bittersteels just decided it would be a good idea to rise him as if he was the real son of Rhaegar, since he looked Targaryen.

Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Jul 13, 2011

# ¿ Jul 13, 2011 02:10

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Ray_ posted:

I thought this before the book came out, but there's a few issues.

1. The Golden Company's leader isn't a Blackfyre

The Blackfyres are dead. But they weren't the only Targaryan bastards inside the Golden Company. Bittersteel was a Braken/Targaryan bastard and the sons of Bittersteel would actually be called Rivers. The Golden Company's war cry is "Beneath the gold, the bitter steel" not "the black fire" but yeah Strickland isn't a particularly impressive leader and he is clearly afraid to fight. Tristan Rivers ("bastard, outlaw and exile") is lot more decisive and actually eager to please "Aegon".

Edit: about your "Ashara Dayne" theory. Didn't Ashara Dayne have purple eyes?

Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Jul 13, 2011

# ¿ Jul 13, 2011 03:45

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Cake Attack posted:

Was Jon Connington ever mentioned before, or is he an entirely new character?

Yes, he is actually named several times in A Storm of Sword first when "Whitebear" Selmy gives Dany more details about Robert's Rebellion and later when Harwin the Northman in the Brotherhood without Banner tells Arya about the Battle of the Bells.

Connington was the leader of the loyalist force at the Battle of the Bells during Robert's Rebellion. He was exiled by the Mad King for retreating in good order (and killing lot of rebels) from a battle he couldn't possibly win.

In a Feast for Crows, Jaime meets Red Ronnet Connington (Connington's cousin and a landed knight) and according to Jaime, everyone think Connington drank himself to death in exile.

Also, Connington was friend with Arthur Dayne.

# ¿ Jul 14, 2011 17:04

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

regulargonzalez posted:

What's the story with Jon/Mormont's raven? It's pretty clearly not just a raven, especially with the heavy handed 'Hey it said my first name I don't remember teaching it that' bit. Whose warg is it? Also, which are there more of at this point -- secret Targs or secret wargs?

How many eyes does the former Commander of the Night Watch and Greenseer Bloodraven have? A Thousand & One!

# ¿ Jul 15, 2011 18:02

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Ray_ posted:

I can see her screwing it up and marrying that Khal she just found.

Khal Jhaqo? The guy who ran away with so twenty thousand of Drogo's raiders? Who ordered his men to rape that girl Dayneris saved and who then had them cut her throat? Yeah, fat chance. Finding Daneyris standing next to her dragon is probably going to be the last thing Jhago ever do. I guess his khalasar will need a new leader really really soon.

quote:

"I swear it by the Mother of Mountains and the Womb of the World. Before I am done with them, Mago and Ko Jhaqo will plead for the mercy they showed Eroeh."
"It was a cruel fate," Dany said, "yet not so cruel as Mago's will be. I promise you that, by the old gods and the new, by the lamb god and the horse god and every god "

# ¿ Jul 15, 2011 20:31

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Ray_ posted:

I don't think she's going to marry Khal Jacko. It was an exaggeration to demonstrate how loving retarded she is and how I won't be surprised at any and all of the future dumb decisions she makes.

What color is Jako's beard?

# ¿ Jul 15, 2011 21:11

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

SmugDogMillionaire posted:

She's 16 in ADWD.

ADWD should have been named "Daneyris Targaryen's Sweet 16" then.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2011 21:20

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Neurosis posted:

I'd like to know the story about how Bloodraven ended up as a greenseer. I'd also like to know more about his magic generally. Do we have any information on how this might have happened, or anything about the sort of powers he had generally? All I have is rumour that the arrow he used to kill Daemon Blackfyre was ensorcelled, and that is from Eustace Osgrey, who was a senile old coot.

Bloodraven is a greenseer probably because Bloodraven's real name is Brynden Rivers, son of Aegon IV and Mylessa Blackwood. House Blackwood of Raventree Hall is one of the oldest house in the riversland, dating from the first men, and is also one of the last houses south of the Neck to still follow the Old Gods. Why didn't they convert? Their arms are a flock of ravens on scarlet surrounding a dead weirwood upon a black escutcheon, it's like a giant "we are wargs" sign. It would also explain why Lord Blackwood don't want his 8 years old daughter to be taken as a hostage at King's Landing in Jayme's Chapter.

# ¿ Jul 20, 2011 06:17

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Ambiguatron posted:

Something else is bugging me. If Varys is working with Illyrio and has been supporting Dany all along, why did he actually carry out Robert's orders to assassinate her?

Because Varys isn't supporting "Dany" at this point, he is supporting her brother who is quite impatient and pissed the Dothraki hordes aren't already invading the kingdom. At this point, Dany was just the clueless little princess they married to the Dothraki Warlord and she needed to die so her brother could cross the sea with a vengeance seeking Khal. Of course just after they decided to send the assassin her brother got his crown.

# ¿ Jul 23, 2011 02:45

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

SmugDogMillionaire posted:

Readers were given a slim and easily miss-able reason to care about the history lesson, hence why it came off as a boring chapter about nothing. Details and backstory are fine and have been handled well in the past, but they were handled ungracefully in ADWD. Not to mention the fatigue that comes from being 5000 pages into this story, having a huge goddamn set of loose ends and details everywhere, and suddenly being expected to care about another historical event with another set of players. If the Blackfyre rebellion had been a bigger deal from the start of the series, maybe I could have mustered the energy to care about the chapter but it and all it's loose ends feel like a series of ideas that Martin came up with after SoS instead of an organic part of the series (seriously, was Blackfyre, Bittersteel, Bloodraven, or the Golden Company mentioned at all before AFFC?).

Actually Blackfyre is namedropped a few times in a Storm of Sword:
_Catelyn used Blackfyre as an example on why Rob shouldn't legitimize Jon.
_Stannis named him as a famous traitor when he explain to Davos why traitors must be killed.
_I think the whole succession crisis leading to the rebellion is also discussed by the Red Viper and Tyrion in one of Sansa chapter. And I am also pretty sure Lives of Four Kings, the book that Tyrion gives as a gift to Joffrey, is on the Young Dragon and his failed conquest of Dorne, Baleor the Blessed, Aegon the Unworthy and Daeron II so it must covers the Rebellions.
_Jayme also tell Brienne that Aerys the Mad only understood that Robert was the biggest menace to Targaryan rules since the Blackfyres after the battle of the Bells. And Maegor Blackfire's death is listed as one of Barristan's achievement in the Kingsguard book.

In ADWD, Bloodraven also claim that the Blackfish was named Bryden in his honor and it would make sense because the Blackwood are apparently ones of the Tully's main bannermen.
The second Blackfire rebellion would also explain why Hoster Tully never went to a Frey wedding.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2011 23:48

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Brannock posted:

Eh? I missed this.

Basically the second blackfyre rebellion took place in Whitehall during the wedding of Lord Ambrose Butterwell to the daughter* of Lord Frey. It was just an excuse for the pro-Blackfyre houses to get together and invite the houses angered by Bloodraven's Handship. They also invited Hoster's recently married father since he was their liege and it would be insulting not to do so but Lord Tully didn't come. You can imagine Lord Tully teaching young Hoster that the Freys are traitors and that he should never go to one of their weddings, using the second rebellion as an example of Frey treachery.

*Said daughter was married to Butterwell because she was having sex with one of the kitchenboy in the Twin main kitchen during the middle of the night. Her 4 years old** bother actually found them and made so much noise that half the castle came to see what was going on.

**Considering his age and the date of the rebellion (212 after Aegon's Landing), her 4 year old brother would be Walder Frey (born in 208 AL). Walder Frey, engineering terrible weddings since 212 AL.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2011 00:25

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

VaultAggie posted:

Jesus, that's complicated. So who fought in the rebellion and why? I barely remember any of this, much less figure out all the details.

It's basically the whole plot of the third Egg&Dunk novella, "The Mystery Knight". The second Rebellion was a 2-days tournament/wedding that ended up with the conspirators surrounded by the loyalist armies and they immediately surrendered. It was just a terrible plot by Lord Frey and a few other houses to get ride of Bloodraven and put one of the son of Daemon Blackfyre on the throne but even Bittersteel didn't want to take part of it. The plot includes a dragon egg, dwarves, a man knighted in a whorehouse and drunken knights singing the Bear and the Maiden Fair.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2011 01:34

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Eggnogium posted:

Littlefinger is still a total wild card and Varys' motivations are less clear than they seem. If he's just a Targaryan loyalist why put out the death warrant on Dani in AGOT? Best excuse I can think of is Viserys was still in play so he hoped it would get Drogo to cross the seas with Viserys.

He is a Targaryan loyalist who isn't afraid to kill a Targaryan princess to make Khal Drogo invade faster. He is also extremely lucky both Daeneys and Viserys didn't end up dead.

Chronologically in A Game of Thrones:
Chapter 23: Daenerys makes Viserys her bitch (no horse) and after teaching some new sex positions to Drogo, she is pregnant.
Chapter 32: Arya hears Varys and Illyrio discussing in the Red Keep. Illyrio tells Varys that Daneyris is pregnant and Visery is growing impatient but the Khal will not invade until the child is born. Varys says time is running out. ""If he does not bestir himself soon, it may be too late,[...]Delay, you say. Make haste, I reply."
Chapter 33: Ned fails to persuade Robert not to kill Daenerys Targaryen, after they learn of her pregnancy from Varys.
Chapter 46 : A golden crown. Guess Varys couldn't see that one coming.
Chapter 54: The assassination attempt fails.

Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Jul 28, 2011

# ¿ Jul 28, 2011 07:26

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Ray_ posted:

Holy poo poo, the statues of the Seven look loving fantastic.

"Their beauty will make them more pleasing to R'hllor"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80LbdCR7-ps

Also concerning Manderley's cooking: I can't wait for one of the Lords who ate the pies and pork at Ramsay's wedding to say they will never accept Rikon as lord because he lived with cannibals in Skagos and ate human flesh. I can imagine Manderley's smile already.

# ¿ Jul 29, 2011 08:14

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Arya walks by the Cult of the Starry Wisdom in Braavos. The noble on the Sister Island have webbed hand. The Iron island king who raised under Bloodraven handship was named Dagon. :cthulhu:

# ¿ Aug 1, 2011 20:57

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Since there is no Jeyne Poole in the tv show, i wonder if Roz is the one who is going to marry Ramsay.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2011 22:00

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Snuffman posted:

What change?

People are bitching because the people in Qarth are tall and white (with really pale skin) and the actor who plays Xaro Xhoan Daxos (a qarthian merchant) is black. So clearly lot of people are saying that HBO must have decided to make ALL the qarthian black instead of pale white!

Xaro Xhoan Daxos is a member of one of the 3 merchant guilds and i don't remember him being described a Pureborn or a milk man (the qarthian with the pale skins), for all we know Qarth could be a multiracial city.

Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Aug 4, 2011

# ¿ Aug 4, 2011 00:01

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

lapse posted:

Isn't Qarth like one of the richest cities in the world? They're breaking down stereotypes, man

Well, you see Daneyris will met a black gay male, a pale man with blue lips and a masked woman...

# ¿ Aug 4, 2011 01:41

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Hedrigall posted:

What the loving gently caress, how did I miss so many details?

Not only did I not realise that Abel and his six women were Mance and the spearwives, but I also was completely innocent as to Manderly cooking pies out of dead Freys. Jesus christ, I wonder what else I didn't pick up on as I raced through the book.

In a Clash of King, when Bran and co were hiding in the tombs, they took three swords: Lord Rickard's sword, Brandon Stark's sword and the newest one which was intended for Eddard's statue. When Theon and Lady Dustin enter the crypt, the sword which is missing from one of the "kings" is from an older Stark whose name Theon does not recall and it's not one of the swords that Bran Meera and Osha took. And the crypt was completely sealed by the snow until their visit so it's unlikely anyone from the wedding took it. Then there is the whole Little Walder Frey's murder...

# ¿ Aug 5, 2011 03:29

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Hedrigall posted:

edit: And Mirri Maz Dhur's prophecy about "the sun setting in the east" = Quentyn dying?, and "the sea drying up" = the Dothraki sea's grass dying

"...and mountains blow in the wind like leaves." Aren't the volcanoes of Valyria erupting?

# ¿ Aug 5, 2011 03:40

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Iggles posted:

I'd think that after spending 100 years as a tree he wouldn't have to feud against the distant (possible) descendant of some guy he didn't like

Well, Bittersteel is now a golden skull atop a golden spear and the last (male) Blackfyre was killed decades ago so yeah, it would be quite petty.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2011 06:10

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

DarkCrawler posted:

Plus if Aegon is really Aegon (which I to be honest, doubt), he's the descendant of Daeron (the good), Bloodraven's brother who he loved.

Are we sure the "brother that i loved" was actually Daeron? I mean it would make sense since Bloodraven was on Daeron's side but the brother he loved could also be Daemon (everyone apparently loved Daemon until Fireball and Bittersteel convinced him to start the rebellion) which would make it even more tragic, Bloodraven siding against his beloved brother and finally killing him and his two sons.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2011 18:36

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

hailthefish posted:

Maybe Robb left them behind to defend the nortahahahahahaha

Or he only took the horsemen.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2011 23:05

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

VaultAggie posted:

The Blackfish?

Or Lady Stoneheart sent some of the few Stark men in her brotherhood without banner spin-off to check Winterfell/get her sons' heads back?

Edit: or to save her daughter?

Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Aug 8, 2011

# ¿ Aug 8, 2011 05:52

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Quantify! posted:

I kind of hope Margaery gets executed despite her (probable) innocence in the whole moon tea thing. She was in on the plot to kill Joffrey, after all. She's a bit of a scheming bitch, and it would be funny for her to realize that despite being a brilliant player she's still going to die.

Really? While Margaery was closer to Joffrey than anyone else when he was poisoned it's the Queen of Thorns who took the poison from Sansa's hairnet. And she was near the chalice (so was ser garlan) when it was briefly left unattended for the pie-cutting. And I doubt the Queen of Thorns would have allowed Margaery to take any part in the plot, it's far too risky for the whole family if Margaery can be linked to the poison. In fact the whole plot with Sansa's hairnet makes no sense if Margeary is the one putting the poison in Joeffrey's cup.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2011 22:41

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Ecco the Dolphin posted:

Why is everyone talking like it's a foregone conclusion that Cersei will go right back to scheming and paranoia? It seemed like GRRM went well out of his way to show that Cersei was truly and deeply broken by her shame-walk. I think it's going to be a relatively permanent character change for her. Sure, she could be faking, but everything in her last POV and the epilogue seemed to suggest it was for real, and that she's done with power-lust.

Funny after the shame-walk i got the feeling she wouldn't mind killing the whole city in a fire, Mad King style.

# ¿ Aug 9, 2011 00:55

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

hellbastard posted:

And just to gently caress with them I hope some group still loyal to House Gardner has been biding their time for three hundred years waiting to put the descendant of a secret line they've been protecting on the throne.

Varys is an Osgrey mastermind!

# ¿ Aug 10, 2011 05:50

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Unzip and Attack posted:

EDIT - so I just finished the book and a few things I wanted to ask about here:

1. Who do you guys think is the man who "dishonored" Ashara Dayne at Harrenhall? Is it Ned, her brother, who? This is nagging at me so bad I can't stand it. It's obvious the man in question was the father of Ashara's stillborn daughter. Barristan doesn't really hint at who it was, unless I missed it.

2. In one of Griff's chapters, he remembers Varys convincing Aerys that he meant to make a grab for the throne by having the Tourney at Harrenhall. If Varys is on the side of the Targs, why would he sow division between the King and his son?

Well, since Aerys "I should have sex with my own Hand's wife" Targaryen was in Harenhal when Ashara Dayne was "dishonored" and Ashara "committed suicide" after all the Targaryens were getting murderer with Robert's approval, i guess we can start a new "Septa Lemore is Ashara but Aegon is Rhaegar's brother not his son" :tinfoil:

theory.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2011 20:39

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Aurubin posted:

2 cripples vs an unfeeling killing machine. Taking all bets!

Maybe Sandor can fight on Jayme's back.

Edit: and form Mecha-shiva...

Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 08:41 on Aug 13, 2011

# ¿ Aug 13, 2011 08:39

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Princess Putout posted:

Something just clicked for me, the Drowned God is motherfucking Cthulhu.

Arya walks by the Temple of Starry Wisdom in Braavos.

# ¿ Aug 14, 2011 21:40

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Quantify! posted:

Explain how the prophecy came true!

The actual prophecy is about Drogo actually.

quote:

�When will he {Drogo} be as he was?� Dany demanded.

�When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east,� said Mirri Maz Duur. �When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. When your womb quickens again, and you bear a living child. Then he will return, and not before.�

The Sun (Dorne) rises in West (against the Lannisters) and sets in the east (when Prince Frog got burned). The Dothraki seas is going dry (black). The Valerian volcanoes are erupting and "mountains" are blowing in the wind like leaves. Dany womb quickened again.

My guess is she will get pregnant sooner or later and she will just name her child Drogo.

# ¿ Aug 21, 2011 19:37

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

Calef posted:

Jon Connington is in fact a fictional character and does not possess an empirically verifiable sexual orientation. The author of the novel titled A Dance with Dragons may or may not have intended to create the impression in the minds of his readers that, within the fictional world of the novel, the character Jon Connington has evinced sexual attraction to another male character. Various in- and out-of-context pieces of data lend weight to the hypothesis that George R.R. Martin intended to create this impression.

Some guy asked GRRM if "a certain POV character" (probably Connington) was gay at a Q&A after the Union Square's signing.
GRRM's answer: "I can't answer that [note: due to it having been 'no spoilers' at the Q&A], but if you're talking about what I think you're talking about, then you're correct."

Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Aug 22, 2011

# ¿ Aug 22, 2011 18:22

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

hellbastard posted:

Roose Bolton: doesn't

He also make a fat Frey bitch squeal like a pig. Or is it a sow?

# ¿ Aug 24, 2011 00:33

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

NinjaDebugger posted:

I thought he was pretty clearly going insane, that's why he's fixated on the whole scene.

Joffrey's death, a humiliating public trial, an extremely tense trial by combat, Jayme telling him the true about his wedding, Shae's murder, his father's murder and lot of alcohol. In what a few days? A week or two?

# ¿ Aug 24, 2011 21:22

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

NihilCredo posted:

No, I mean that two characters who had a perfectly reasonable conflict and plenty of ground to resent each other suddenly find out that they were ACTUALLY IN LOVE WITH EACH OTHER so they magically decide to GET MARRIED and EVERYBODY LIVES HAPPILY EVER AFTER IN THE LAND OF PONIES.

Well they aren't getting married because they love each other, they are getting married because they are both desperate: she is marrying him because he is old(and will probably die soon enough), easily manipulable and she won't have to marry anyone else and lose her independence. He is marrying her because it saves his lineage from extinction and gives him back some of his family's old land. Hardly love, specially since she wants Dunk to stay.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2011 17:58

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 11:53

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

NihilCredo posted:

No, this is what we were told (by a third party, but a honest one, and later one of those directly involved has the chance to give a different version and doesn't): "Coldmoat and Standfast were reconciled after your battle. Lady Rohanne begged leave of old Ser Eustace to cross his land and visit Addam�s grave, and he granted her that right. She knelt before the blackberries and began to weep, and he was so moved that he went to comfort her. They spent the whole night talking of young Addam and my lady�s noble father. Lord Wyman and Ser Eustace were fast friends, until the Blackfyre Rebellion. His lordship and my lady were wed this morning, by our good Septon Sefton. Eustace Osgrey is the lord of Coldmoat, and his chequy lion flies beside the Webber spider on every tower and wall.� If that is a plausible turn of events for those two characters then I'm the Pope.

I have no doubt it's the story they tell everyone but i doubt it's the whole truth since she wants Dunk to stay and i doubt it's only for his fighting abilities. The minute Wyman and Eustace reconciled after the river problem, they probably saw that their mutual interest was in marrying each other. Lords and ladies rarely marry for love. And it would be what? Love at 897th sight?

# ¿ Sep 2, 2011 18:36

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > ASoIaF: A Song of Ice and Fire: George Rail Road Martin

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