ASoIaF: A Song of Ice and Fire: George Rail Road Martin

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Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

The last line is something like, "Darkness took him and he didn't even feel the 4th dagger." He was with a large group of wildlings and night's watch dudes. I have a feeling some of them stepped in and defended him and took him to safety or some poo poo. It's not a definite death like Catelyn's:

ASOS posted:

"Mad," someone said, "she's lost her wits," and someone else said, "Make an end,"
and a hand grabbed her scalp just as she'd done with Jinglebell, and she thought, No, don't, don't cut my
hair, Ned loves my hair. Then the steel was at her throat, and its bite was red and cold.

I think it's mentioned Jon was stabbbed in the stomach and between the shoulders. Not quite a throat slash or stab to the heart or a beheading. GURM could have easily written something unambiguous like:

quote:

"As the knife slid into his heart and the darkness took him, Jon Snow popped a boner whilst thinking of all the times he peeked through the keyhole to watch Catelyn slip a third finger into the muddy postern gate of Riverrun"

Really, he probably wargs into Ghost and chills there until Bran teaches him how to take over someone else's body.

# ¿ Jul 6, 2011 20:04

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# ¿ Apr 29, 2024 14:27

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

This post is all spoilers, but nothing too terrible.

Dany still dumb:

Daenerys posted:

I would give up my crown if he asked it of me, Dany thought...but he had not asked it, and never would.

Is this some stalwart hero? An exiled Lord or famous knight or even a commoner with exceptional qualities? Nope. It's a sellsword captain with a gold tooth. like 4 paragraphs before:

Dany re: Daario Naharis posted:

He has a sellsword's conscience, she realized then. That is to say, none at all.

God I hope she dies.

On the other hand, the Lord of White Harbor is pretty cool.

Lord Wyman Manderly posted:

"I am fat, and many think that makes me weak and foolish."

When I read that all I could think of was :goonsay:

Anyway, dude reminds me of Doran Martell. Manderly takes more overt action than Martell, though. For example, he disappears a few Freys on the way to meet some other northern lords. He intentionally set a slow loving pace and when these Freys raced ahead, they got "lost" and no trace of them could be found.

The Boltons are hosed up, man. Seems as if Ramsay made Theon into an eunuch. Ramsay also made him eat out fake Arya in order to get her wet enough to bed on their wedding night. This after he nonchalantly jammed 2 fingers into her without warning and complained that she was too dry.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2011 21:42

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

whowhatwhere posted:

Was he changed from the books? I could have sworn he was a skinny little snot in the books.

Pretty sure he's at least described as having a fat face.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2011 21:43

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

Triple postin' to tell all y'all about how dumb Dany continues to be. Quentyn Martell shows up with the marriage contract for Arianne and Viserys. Dorne obviously wants Quentyn and Dany to wed in place of them, and Quentyn proposes the marriage pact.
This is what she says after putting him off:

Dany posted:

The queen rose. "Then we are done for now."
Daario and Ser Barristan followed her up the steps to her apartments.
"This changes everything," the old knight said.
"This changes nothing," Dany said, as Irri removed her crown. "What
good are three men?"

Seriously? She's throwing away the Dornish alliance to wed a loving Mereenese. She chose a lovely city in Slaver's Bay over Westeros. How. loving. Dumb.

I like this too, down the page from the above quote:

Dany posted:

"Ser Barristan, what are the arms of House Martell?"

She expects to be queen of Westeros yet hasn't even taken the time to learn the arms of even the great Houses? There's only like 8 of them. Not only that, but it's the arms of the House most closely tied to the Targaryens.

I hope it goes down like this: have her land in Westeros and all 7 kingdoms rise together...to shove her dumb rear end make into the sea. I mean, she insulted and refused a Dornish alliance, her army are all eunuchs and slaves, and she's married to a Mereenese that would be the king of the Seven Kingdoms. Why would anyone in Westeros want her for a queen?

# ¿ Jul 8, 2011 22:47

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

threeagainstfour posted:

Seriously, I hope she gets dead as well. Girl is willing to give up her crown for a piece of poo poo like Dario,

Dany posted:

That night Daario had her every way a man can have a woman, and she gave herself to him willingly. The last time, as the sun was coming up, she used her mouth to make him hard again, as Doreah had taught her long ago, then rode him so wildly that his wound began to bleed again, and for one sweet heartbeat she could not tell whether he was inside of her, or her inside of him.

Edit:

Dany posted:

"Come back to bed and kiss me." No one had ever kissed her like Daario Naharis. "I am your queen, and I command you to gently caress me."
She had meant it playfully, but Daario's eyes hardened at her words. "loving queens is king's work. Your noble Hizdahr can attend to that, once you're wed. And if he proves to be too highborn for such sweaty work, he has servants who will be pleased to do that for him as well. Or perhaps you can call the Dornish boy into your bed, and his pretty friend as well, why not?" He strode from the bedchamber.

lol

Edit x2:

Dany posted:

She relied so much on the little scribe that she oft forgot that Missandei had only turned eleven.

Holy poo poo, only eleven?
...Yep, seems about right that Dany relies heavily on an eleven year old girl.

Ray_ fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Jul 8, 2011

# ¿ Jul 8, 2011 22:51

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

Haha, gently caress all of you that laughed at the idea of Tyrion the Secret Targ!

Barristan the Bold posted:

"As you command." The white knight chose his words with care. "Prince Aerys . . . as a youth, he was taken with a certain lad)- of Casterly Rock, a cousin of Tywin Lannister. When she and Tywin wed, your father drank too much wine at the wedding feast and was heard to say that it was
a great pity that the lord's right to the first night had been abolished. A drunken jape, no more, but Tywin Lannister was not a man to forget such words, or the . . . the liberties your father took during the bedding." His face reddened. "I have said too much, Your Grace. I�"

# ¿ Jul 8, 2011 23:07

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

Tony Danza Claus posted:

Tyrion is the youngest kid. That means Jaime and Cersei were Targs. Maybe.

That doesn't necessarily mean that Aerys hosed her on her wedding night, or that he didn't rape her 10 years later.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2011 23:44

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

AlteredAtronach posted:

They could've gotten a female bodybuilder

Are there a lot of really tall female bodybuilders that are also good actresses?

Are there any?

# ¿ Jul 9, 2011 01:11

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

Decius posted:

Another king/queen following the proud and successful example of Robb Stark.

Robb did it for love. Dany did it so she could maybe hold onto Mereen for a little longer.

She's been advised (by Mereenese nobility) that Yunkai (and allies) will maybe probably go for peace if she weds a Mereenese nobleman.

The other reason she's marrying random Mereenese noble is that he was able to end the violence inside the city. You see, there have been multiple grisly murders every loving night since she got there. A group called "The Sons of the Harpy" have claimed responsibility. So yeah, the Mereenese nobility press her about marrying this dude. She meets up with him. He gets her to promise to marry him if there are no further murders for 90 days. Guess what? No further murders!
There's no way this guy is involved in a leadership capacity with the Sons of the Harpy! He's just that persuasive! It's in no way suspicious that he's able to get this group of nobles that hate the gently caress out of Dany and have been killing/raping/mutilating her people for months to quit cold turkey!
Seriously, there isn't like a few days where her betrothed goes to the different noble families and negotiates a cessation. The violence stops that very night. Surely Dany had to compromise on some issues? Maybe re-open the fighting pits? Nope! She just has to agree to marry this guy.

She's so loving stupid.

Anyway. So yeah: world of difference between Robb and Dany.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2011 10:29

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

uncle jimbo posted:

So how come Theon doesn't point out that fake Arya is, well, fake?

The Boltons have thoroughly broken him. Ramsay flayed several fingers and toes, then cut them off after weeks of agony, Ramsay broke most of Theon's teeth to the point that he won't eat anything solid at the wedding feast, and Ramsay cut off Theon's cock and balls. I wouldn't be surprised if they cooked them and served it to him. The first glimpse of Theon we get is him eating a rat alive because he's loving starving to death.

He's a broken person. He won't even call himself a man. During the wedding, he was forced to stand in for Ned and give Arya away. During this time he kept thinking - in fear - that Jeyne's eyes were brown and not grey like Arya's and someone would notice. During the feast he toyed with the thought of cutting the girl's throat in an act of mercy, but he couldn't be sure that Ramsay would kill him right away. He was okay with that, but didn't think it likely.

Jeyne begged him to rescue her. He thought that Theon would do it, but that Theon was a man and bold. He was just Reek. It rhymes with meek.

Little rambling there, sorry. It's late.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2011 10:42

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

Rootbeer Baron posted:

This is so ridiculous I'm having trouble even believing it. Is Dance like 100% Dany porno/Theon sadism? Also I don't believe the thing about going down on the girl on the wedding night because god drat I don't want to imagine anyone writing that let alone Martin (but if anyone would...)

The cock thing is never stated outright, but it's pretty obvious. As to the other:

GRRM seriously loving posted:

"Lady Arya. Get on the bed. Yes, against the pillows, that's a good wife. Now spread your legs. Let us see your oval office"
The girl obeyed, wordless. Theon took a step back toward the door. Lord Ramsay sat beside his bride, slid his hand along her inner thigh, then jammed two fingers up inside her. The girl let out a gasp of pain. "You're dry as an old bone." Ramsay pulled his hand free and slapped her face. "I was told that you'd know how to please a man. Was that a lie?"
"N-no, my lord. I was t-trained."
Ramsay rose, the firelight shining on his face. "Reek, get over here. Get her ready for me."
For a moment he did not understand. " I...do you mean...m'lord, I have no...I.."
"With your mouth," Lord Ramsay said. "And be quick about it If she's not wet by the time I'm done disrobing, I will cut off that tongue of yours and nail it to the wall."
Somewhere in the godswood, a raven screamed. The dagger was still in his hand.
He sheathed it.
Reek, my name is Reek, it rhymes with weak.
Reek bent to his task.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2011 16:28

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

Aurubin posted:

I wonder what his motivation for making such comically evil villians like the Boltons was? He's always about sympathetic portrayals and such, and here he presents Sauron level baddies. I think the Boltons will eventually get their comeuppance in the future. Maybe it's an aesop on how you can't just do things for the evulz and expect to rule effectively.

Well, sociopaths do exist in real life. They're a lot like Cersei in that regard - though in the Bolton's case I think it's supposed to be a family trait, vs it being an acquired illness for Cersei.

Roose and Ramsay are also very different. Both sociopaths, but Roose is cold where Ramsay is hot. Roose is intelligent and calculating where Ramsay is neither despite a certain amount o low cunning.
Roose is sort o disgusted by Ramsay, too. Not by his actions, but by how dumb he can be. Example:

Roose talking to Theon posted:

"I know." Lord Bolton signed. "His blood is bad. He needs to be leeched. The leeches suck away the bad blood, all the rage and pain. No man can think so ull of anger. Ramsay, though...his tainted blood would poison even leeches, I fear."

Then there's this, a great example of how Roose thinks:

Roose talking to Theon again posted:

(Theon) "My lord has a new wife to give him sons."
(Roose)"And won't my bastard love that? Lady Walda is a Frey, and she has a fertile feel to her. I have become oddly fond of my fat little wife. The two before her never made a sound in bed, but this one squeals and shudders. I find that quite endearing. If she pops out sons the way she pops in tarts, the Dreadfort will soon be overrun with Boltons. Ramsay will kill them all, of course. That's for the best. I will not live long enough to see new sons to manhood, and boy lords are the bane of any House. Walda will grieve to see them die, though.

By the way, Ramsay's hunting bitches are called "Ramsay's girls." They're all named after women he's hunted, raped, and killed - but only the ones that gave him good sport. The ones that didn't run and just begged and sobbed for their lives instead of trying to get away, they don't get to be reborn as one of his hounds. They also don't get the mercy of a quick murder/rape combo, they're usually flayed and tortured and poo poo for a while before being allowed to die.
Nice guy, this Ramsay.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2011 03:05

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

The book is good.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2011 23:04

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

Seriously guys: the book is good. I've only read like 3/4ths to 4/5ths of it, but it's been really good so far. Much better than AFFC.
The Dany chapters sort of suck. I just don't give a gently caress about Mereen, and can't understand why she does give a gently caress. She's all about her "children" the freed slaves, but she fucks them over hard just to keep her Mereenese crown. She doesn't march to the rescue of Astapor, makes peace with the slavers by marrying a slaver, allows slavery to restart in Astapor and Yunkai...the list goes on.
The chick in Volantis sends off Jorah and Tyrion with a message to Dany. It says something like, "Tell the dragon queen to come quickly, her children are waiting for her." Too bad for her children, their mother is too goddamn vain and dumb and self-hosed to come save them. The Astapor slaves were telling each other that their mother will be there to save them any second now, right up to the moment they were either re-enslaved or tortured to death. Rape is a given in either case.

She's also loving retarded and makes bad decision after bad decision. "I'm only a young girl and don't know much about the ways of war" - she's completely loving correct but doesn't realize it. It makes it aggravating to read sometimes.

Jon's chapters are good, though there's a few times you just want to kick him and shout in his face to "STOP SENDING AWAY YOUR ONLY FRIENDS AND ALLIES". Seriously, it started with Sam and Aemon, but continued on with Pyp and Grenn, Iron Emmett and Dolorous Edd, etc. Pyp is the only one I can understand. He could undermine Jon's authority and it could get ugly. The others? I get that you want people you trust to command those new garrisons, but holy gently caress your only ally left is a former Oldtown boy whore, near as I can tell. Goddamnit Jon.

The GURM does pull another "nuncle" thing again. Remember how that word had never been heard at all before AFFC? Yeah, well get ready to read about "neeps" every time there's food being served. At least it doesn't sound as retarded as "nuncle" though. Goddamnit I hate that word. gently caress you GURM.

Anyway, lots of :words:

to say this: the book is good, go read it. Read it slowly though, it's the last book in the series.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2011 23:49

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

Rootbeer Baron posted:

It's a weird thing to leave ambiguous, though. I'm no dude but if I was I feel like my POV chapters would be 12 pages of THIS DUDE CUT OFF MY DICK and not mumbling in the back of my cell wondering where a few of my fingers and toes went.

Dude, who the gently caress is the chick in your avatar and what is the screenshot from? She looks really familiar but I can't put my finger on it. Or in it. There, now this post is relevant to the thread subject.

The thing with her eyebrows gets me all hot and bothered like GURM writing Theon torture porn.

Oh hey, on the actual subject of the books: Littlefinger had Jeyne Poole the whole time. During that time, he has her "trained" as a whore and whipped so badly that there are scars on her back. Then he gives her to Ramsay Fuckin Bolton.

There have been discussions about how Sansa will probably end up bringing down Littlefinger at his own game and using the skills he taught her. The thought goes that she'll flip on him when she finds out how he betrayed her father with the gold cloaks and poo poo. That seems the most obvious just because everyone knows he did it. We also know that he's the one that convinced Joffrey to kill Ned, and we find out one of his motivations for that: Cersei refuses his proposal to marry Sansa himself.

I'm sort of thinking it's now more likely she'll go against him because of what he did to her BFF Jeyne Poole. It seems more likely that she'd meet up with Jeyne or even Theon than finding out about poo poo that went down in King's Landing 3 (?) years ago. She's got no friends in King's Landing. The only people that might talk to her are Barristan and Varys. Barristan is exceedingly unlikely just because of circumstances.
Varys seems very likely, though. He's got every reason to remove Littlefinger from the game and Sansa is shaping out to be the perfect weapon due to reasons we all know. Hell, she's probably the only weapon available to Varys in the Vale.

On the other hand, when Sansa hears that Arya has been forced to wed Ramsay Bolton and is the Lady of Winterfell, I could easily see that being the catalyst that starts the downfall of the Lord Paramount of the Trident and Lord Protector of the Vale. When Sansa reveals herself to Bronze Motherfucking Yohn before Littlefinger realizes it, poor Petyr Baelish gets tossed from the Moon Door and all the knights of the Vale pledge themselves to Sansa's cause of freeing her sister from one of the driving forces of the Red Wedding.

None of this matters of course, until Brandon Sanderson (whoever the gently caress that is, goons keep using his name though) finishes it in 2021.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2011 00:55

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

Cersei gets her pussy shaved by a silent sister.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2011 18:49

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

That wasn't speculation like the posts above, by the way. I just read about a silent sister shaving Cersei's pussy while Cersei thinks about Jaime eating her out. His lips were always warm, but the steel was cold.

Also: Cersei still insane. Right after she gets shaved, she involuntarily laughs in front of the septas and silent sisters. That's, like, comic book villain insane.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2011 18:57

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

Lawlicaust posted:

Moving away from the negative, let's do some discussion/speculation.

1. Is Young Griff really Aegon or some impostor?

2. Who is Lemore?

3. Based on the visions in the flames and Jon's "death" is he AA reborn?

4. Who is Coldhands?

5. Is the letter about Stannis real?

6. Thoughts on how Jon will survive his "death"?

1. Jon Connington seems to think so. He specifically thinks "I failed the father (Rhaegar) but I won't fail his son." It's possible that Varys deceived him, of course, but he'd have to find another child extremely close in age and with the Targ coloring. Not only that, but he'd have to have known for certain that the kid would develop the Targ coloring since obviously hair color isn't showing as an infant. Not an easy thing to come by, and that'd an awfully long and dangerous con Varys would be running.

2. My pet theory is Ashara Dayne. The age is about right, she's described as being pretty, she's a free spirit, etc. I had put forth - before the book - the idea that Ashara had faked her own death and gone into hiding with baby Aegon. This fits I think.

3. Dany still fits all of the prophecies that we know of. Lightbringer is clearly her dragons, etc.

4. Bluh

5. No way

6. "Fire consumes, but cold preserves" - four stab wounds in non-fatal locations is survivable, especially when your pulse rate is lowered due to the cold already. That's not counting uber powerful Mel, who hasn't yet used the kiss of life or whatever it's called.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2011 23:07

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

For anyone that's interested, this was my pet theory about Ashara Dayne I came up with before ADWD:

Ray_ posted:

I really think that Ashara absconded with baby Aegon. Ashara was mentioned as being a lady in waiting for Elia. Ned could have easily been the delivery guy for the baby when he brought Dawn to Starfall. Ashara then fakes her death - remember, her body was never found - and goes across the narrow sea with baby Aegon.

Either Ashara smuggled Aegon out to Starfall before the war.

Or - and I like this one even more - Aegon was at the Tower of Joy. It's mentioned all the time that it doesn't make sense for the LC of the Kingsguard and the greatest knight alive and some other KG dude to be guarding a kidnapped Lyanna, but it would make sense if they were there to guard the heir to the throne. That's sound logic, but people are usually thinking of Jon in that case. Jon wouldn't be the heir, though, Aegon would.

3 KG with Rhaegar on the Trident
1 KG with the actual king
3 KG (including the LC) with the two heirs to the throne - Aegon and fetus Jon

I could see 1 or even 2 KG with Lyanna to protect her and Jon. I can't see 3, especially when they include the loving Lord Commander and the goddamn Sword of the loving Morning. Not when there's only ONE left in the Red Keep to guard both the king and the heir. If the heir isn't at the Red Keep, though...

So Ned and his buddies kill the 3 Kingsguard. Ned finds Aegon being nursed by Wylla in one room, then finds his sister with Jon in another room. He brings the two babies, Wylla, and Dawn all to Starfall. He leaves Dawn and Aegon with Ashara, goes home with Jon, and Ashara leaves with Aegon.

It's a huge loving stretch and only makes sense because GURM won't confirm that Aegon's actually dead.

Going back and re-reading the posts about the theory is interesting, since we hadn't yet found out in ADWD that baby Aegon really was alive:
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3401916&pagenumber=287&perpage=40#post392755496

# ¿ Jul 12, 2011 23:15

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

Toplowtech posted:

The Golden Company was formed by Targaryen "Great Bastards" and most of them probably still have the Valerian look. For all we know Jon/Varys and the Bittersteels just decided it would be a good idea to rise him as if he was the real son of Rhaegar, since he looked Targaryen.

I thought this before the book came out, but there's a few issues.

1. The Golden Company's leader isn't a Blackfyre
2. Maelys the Monstrous was the last Blackfyre, slain by Barristan the Bold 50 years ago
3. There doesn't appear to be ANY Blackfyres in the company
4. Jon Connington faked his death in order to leave the Golden Company and raise the boy
5. Connington is a POV character with lines and thoughts like the following:

Connington posted:

�I failed the father,� he said, �but I will not fail the son.�

That was after he climbed to the top of his newly taken ancestral seat and reflected on his past and stuff. There wasn't anyone up there with him.

Connington posted:

He had failed Prince Rhaegar once. He would not fail his son, not whilst life remained in his body.

More of the same.

Connington posted:

Death, he knew, but slow. I still have time. A year. Two years. Five. Some stone men live for ten. Time enough to cross the sea, to see Griffin�s Roost again. To end the Usurper�s line for good and all, and put Rhaegar�s son upon the Iron Throne.

Unless he's thinking of Jon Snow...

Connington posted:

Varys had been adamant about the need for secrecy.

Connington posted:

Griff had gone along with the Spider�s scheme for the boy�s sake, but that did not mean he liked it any better.

This might be the most convincing of all. Why include Varys at all if Aegon is a Blackfyre pretender?

# ¿ Jul 13, 2011 03:17

Ray_: Sep 15, 2005; It was like the Colosseum in Rome and we were the Christians." - Bobby Dodd, on playing at LSU's Tiger Stadium

So here's maybe the primary motivation beyond love for Rhaegar to put his dragondick in Lyanna?