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thexerox123 posted:Are you sure about that? Sure, people forget a bunch in the middle, but everyone remembers #1 and #10 (Do not covet thy neighbour's rear end).
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Jul 7, 2011 15:32
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Ash Lael posted:Sure, people forget a bunch in the middle, but everyone remembers #1 and #10 (Do not covet thy neighbour's rear end). This guy didn't even list #1 among the ones he did remember, though...
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Jul 7, 2011 15:35
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bobkatt013 posted:He claimed that he left since he was not getting a raise while everyone else did. Also he was having a feud with Aaron and quit during the summer due to Warner Brothers. This sounds worse than it is. In 2001 the other headliners negotiated (threatened with a walk out iirc) a contract similiar to Rob Lowe, which was only fair since West Wing was very much an ensemble piece at that point. Up untill 2001, Rob Lowe made more than twice as much as everyone else, besides Sheen. Martin Sheen got a huge pay raise though in 2002-3, which might have pissed him off.
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Jul 7, 2011 16:08
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Has Sorkin ever said what his plans were for season 5 onwards?
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Jul 7, 2011 16:18
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Ash Lael posted:I love West Wing, but hate this scene so much. I don't know where Toby gets the 3rd Commandment thing from, but Bartlett is conspicuously Catholic and the Catholic ten commandments are a little different. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments#Catholic_and_Lutheran_Christianity
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Jul 7, 2011 16:22
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Who is everyone's favourite bit character? I made a rough list of the main ones. VICE PRESIDENTS John Hoynes - Vice President. I originally thought he would be the main villain for the show so was pleasantly suprised when he turned out to be more of an obstacle. Has professional history with Josh. "Bingo" Bob Russell - Vice President. Is supposedly a lot brighter than people give him credit for but never really shows it. Impresses the President. Glenallen Morgan - Acting President John Goodman demands cakes and snacks for all. SECRETARIES Delores Landingham - President's Secretary, doting mother to all. Deborah "Debbie" Fiderer - Landingham's replacement and a dirty hippy. Margaret Hooper - Leo's Assistant. Says something weird. Then Leo says MARGARET. PRESS Danny "The Cannon" Concannon - Reportewr and CJ's original squeeze. Awesome character with amazing hair who disappears and reappears throughout the show's run. MILITARY Admiral Fitzwallace - Awesome Joint Chief. Chief of the Joints. Dr Nancy McNally - Head of the NSA or something. Also awesome. Kate Harper - McNally's deputy. Gets a suprisng amount of screen time in later seasons and is involved in one of the stranger realtiosnhips in the show. Lt. Commander Jack Reese - Christian Slater, dates Donna for a while. I honestly can't remember anything about what he does. Simon Donovan - That guy from NCSI, assigned to protect CJ. Teaches her how to shoot a gun and stuff. Gets written out of the show in one of the most needlessly melodramatic ways (but at least we find out what happens to him amiright). POLITICAL Mandy Hampton - Media Consultant. The original dropped character and first of many "showing how they got the job then forget about them". Josh's ex. Works under Toby. Bruno Gianelli - Barlett's campaign manager for relection and Vinick's campaign manager. His change on the show mirrored Ron Silver's political swing from democrat to republican in real life. Best goatee. Joey Lucas - Hard of hearing congressional campaign manager and polling expert. Impresses the president. Has a love/hate relationship with Josh. Followed by interpreter Kenny. Got pregnant. Had fling with Q from Star Trek. Lord John Marbury - UK Ambassador, Leo's nemesis due to his constant reference to him as Gerald, Earl of Croy, Earl of Sherborne, Marquess of Needham and Dolby, Baronet of Brycey. A salacious and eccentric character, a true brit. Annabeth Schott - CJ's deputy and later Leo's assistant. So small the cameras have difficulty when she and CJ are in the same shot. Gets some great lines and one of the highlights of the later series'. COUNSEL Cliff Calley - Senate Majority Counsel. A dirty republican who CJ pegs to replace Josh. Stands up a bit for Leo in his hearing and helps Santos with a stem cell vote. Ainsley Hayes - A another dirty republican. A firey southern counsel who does the "gets the job by impressing the President with an impassioned speech" thing. Disagrees with Leo a lot. Reappears at the end of Season 7. Joseph "Joe" Quincy - Associate counsel. The third of the dirty republican counsels. Matthew Perry in his Studio 60 rehearsal slot. Again, his story arc is basically him getting the job and then disappearing. Oliver Babish - White House Counsel who gets one of the best show openings when the MS case breaks just as he's about the leave for his holiday. Generally the buzzkill who reminds everyone about THE LAW. JOSH'S BITCHES Amy Gardner - Josh's squeeze and womens' rights lobbyist. Works for the First Lady and later the Santos administration. Annoying at times but super hot. Ryan Pierce - Josh's intern who's a pain but then redeems himself. Josh dislikes Pierce's success on the back his father's name. The Wesley Crusher of the West Wing (in that he's an annoying young character that we all hate, right?) OTHER LOVE INTERESTS Brittany "Laurie" Rollins - A student/call girl. Squeeze for Sam Seaborn. Later goes on to tell House he can't stop a patient's heart to help diagnose his condition. Then House says a funny. Mallory O'Brien. Leo's daughter, has a thing for Sam which never comes to anything. Colin Ayres - Jason Issacs, has a fling with Donna in the Middle East just so Josh can get jealous and possesive and poo poo.
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Jul 7, 2011 16:31
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You left out recurring pressmen Frick & Frack. I don't recall their names but they've plenty of scenes throughout the series and some great one liners.
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Jul 7, 2011 16:34
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Thanks for this thread I was just looking for a series to watch (AGAIN) the whole way through and West Wing just one the challenge over ST:TNG. I just hope I can get through the Mandy Episodes without hurling.
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Jul 7, 2011 16:37
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Maybe I'm dumb but I always thought a romance between Ainsley and Sam would have been interesting.
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Jul 7, 2011 16:38
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Giodo! posted:Maybe I'm dumb but I always thought a romance between Ainsley and Sam would have been interesting. It's unfortunate she got taken away by another show. I really enjoyed her character. And her introduction episode is one of my favorite episodes of the series, though mostly for the Kundu story which was a heartbreaker.
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Jul 7, 2011 16:41
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Mu Zeta posted:This line was random as hell I don't think there was supposed to be an actual talk walking by there. I liked Amy more than Donna who wants to fight 
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Jul 7, 2011 16:55
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Ash Lael posted:I love West Wing, but hate this scene so much. I like it for the way it sums up the characters involved. CJ is trying to make nice, Josh wants it to blow over because he knows it's a worthless thing and Toby can't turn down a fight. Then the president comes in, says 5 dollars is too much for porno, then calls the fundies on their bullshit, and tells them to gtfo. Perfect.
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Jul 7, 2011 17:16
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I watched this show on DVD for the first time a few years ago and it was an all-around wonderful experience. Sometimes, especially in seasons 2-4, I would watch up to eight episodes in a single sitting. Just like Sports Night, it made the workplace it depicted look like, despite the high tensions and clashing egos, a place absolutely bursting with warm and brilliant people doing their best in a way that made you want to work there too. The only downsides of the Sorkin years were Mandy and the embarrassingly blatant "take THAT, George W Bush!" character of Robert Ritchie.reality_groove posted:Who is everyone's favourite bit character? I made a rough list of the main ones. I always really, really liked Joey Lucas. Shame that she only appeared a couple times a season or so.
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Jul 7, 2011 17:17
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I loved Ainsly. I wish she didn't take the CSI Miami gig. I know its a huge cash cow, but I think it ultimately tanked her promising career.
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Jul 7, 2011 18:36
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Bunk Rogers posted:You left out recurring pressmen Frick & Frack. I don't recall their names but they've plenty of scenes throughout the series and some great one liners. You mean Larry and Ed?
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Jul 7, 2011 19:02
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Alter Ego posted:You mean Larry and Ed? Those sound good!
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Jul 7, 2011 19:15
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Actually sorkins meltdown started in Season 3. Lowe admitted on the Jonathan Ross show here in the UK that he left because the writing was on the wall for the show and he didn't like how it was heading. I don't think that an actor who's a small part of a large ensemble was so perturbed by being a small part of a large ensemble that he also stayed for 4 seasons. I love Sorkin, but he hosed himself. Scripts were coming in late and he was holding up production with the mistaken belief there was nothing they could do. That's on top of the copious drug use. He was a nightmare to work with but a great writer. I don't envy John Wells one bit. He hard a hard job to follow up Sorkin and actually pulled out some great episodes from season 6 onwards. I just think he sometimes focused on the big stories instead of the characters. That's not to say Sorkin was perfect. He has a terrible habit of dropping stories when it suits him.
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Jul 7, 2011 20:43
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DrVenkman posted:I don't envy John Wells one bit. He hard a hard job to follow up Sorkin and actually pulled out some great episodes from season 6 onwards. I just think he sometimes focused on the big stories instead of the characters. There's some really sloppy work in Season 5, though, the most egregious example being having Elisabeth Moss' name in the opening credits for the denouement of the kidnapping plotline. That said, there are good episodes in Series 5 as well : the CJ/Hoynes one and The Supremes mainly. And generally the characters don't get too stupid, even if Jesse Bradford's entire reason for being on the show appears to have his character gently caress over Josh.
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Jul 7, 2011 22:11
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Along with the secret plan to fight inflation, I nominate the Butterball hotline as the funniest scene in the show. Bartlet posted:"I'm Joe Betherson...sen. That's one 't', and with an 'h' in there" I cannot think of another programme that managed to combine comedy and drama as well as they managed. It probably helped that the casting was about as perfect as you can get.
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Jul 7, 2011 22:48
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Austen Tassletine posted:Along with the secret plan to fight inflation, I nominate the Butterball hotline as the funniest scene in the show. "Phil Baharned?"
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Jul 7, 2011 22:54
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I loved this show so much. Missed it when it originally aired, but watched the first 2 seasons in just over 3 weeks. I couldn't wait to get to the rest that I bought the entire series on impulse and finished it all off in just under a month. This was probably my 2nd favorite network television show behind Lost. Just great character development and suspense, it really made me want to live in a world where Bartlett was the actual POTUS.
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Jul 7, 2011 23:14
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I agree with others that Season 5 was a big drop off but from about the 7th or 8th episode of season 6 until the end is probably my favorite portion of the show. Also Amy rules.
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Jul 7, 2011 23:30
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Anyone who loves this show but has NOT seen the 1995 Sorkin-scripted movie The American President should definitely check it out. It has an incredibly similar flavor to it, and even a lot of the same actors (including Martin Sheen in what's basically the role of Leo).
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Jul 7, 2011 23:57
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DrVenkman posted:That's not to say Sorkin was perfect. He has a terrible habit of dropping stories when it suits him. Absolutely, consistency and continuity were not his strong points. I also found his payoffs rarely matched the build-ups. It's funny how his wanton turnover of characters actually matched the realtively short lifespans of White House staffers.
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Jul 8, 2011 00:07
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reality_groove posted:Absolutely, consistency and continuity were not his strong points. I also found his payoffs rarely matched the build-ups.
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Jul 8, 2011 00:27
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I think the secondary cast really added a gently caress ton to this show, especially after the main characters had played all their notes like fifty times each. I also never really dug Mary McCormack or Joshua Malina - in anything. Ron Silver as Bruno Gianelli was my favorite bit character. He was pretty riveting, and he threw some really, really good speeches. Totally inhabited the character, and I loved the shtick with Margaret. Next fave is John Amos as Percy Fitzwallace. John Amos was on the freaking Mary Tyler Moore show, on which also he nailed a great character and lifted the show. Also, Oliver Platt as the Attorney General. Even that small guy who played Clifford Calley nailed all his scenes, especially after his 6th season return. I think this show started tacking towards bad when Mark Harmon's secret service love interest for CJ got shot. It still had some good poo poo left, but if you divide the show into "Sorkin" "Early Post-Sorkin" and "Santos Campaign" eras, the last one is the worst.
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Jul 8, 2011 01:07
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Tujague posted:I think this show started tacking towards bad when Mark Harmon's secret service love interest for CJ got shot. It still had some good poo poo left, but if you divide the show into "Sorkin" "Early Post-Sorkin" and "Santos Campaign" eras, the last one is the worst. I disagree, the Campaign part of the show was where it really started to find new legs and distinguish itself from merely trying to continue what Sorkin was doing. This is one of the most amazing shows. It really ruined real politics for me because nothing can come close to the ideals that The West Wing articulated. The characters were amazing and really drew me in. I still lose it when Josh goes back for Sam in I think the penultimate episode of the series, and when Bartlett hands over to Santos. It's always surprising to me how funny the show is as well. The highlight for me being when Bartlett finally meets Ainsley Hayes. I need to find my DVDs and do a full rewatch.
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Jul 8, 2011 01:53
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Paragon8 posted:
The napkin
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Jul 8, 2011 01:54
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Ytadel posted:Anyone who loves this show but has NOT seen the 1995 Sorkin-scripted movie The American President should definitely check it out. It has an incredibly similar flavor to it, and even a lot of the same actors (including Martin Sheen in what's basically the role of Leo). This movie was my moms favorite and she always watched it when I was younger. So of course I had to watch it 10-20 times a year. Anyways, I remember reading somewhere that Sorkin's original script for that movie would have made it a 4 hour plus film, so someone gave him the idea of making a tv show after the movie. Also put me in the camp that loved the last half of season 6 and all of season 7. The campaign aspect of the show was really neat and made it seem fresh, which is hard for a show that is 7 seasons in.
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Jul 8, 2011 02:19
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My favorite show of all time. I think that (series ending spoilers) season 5 was the low point. However season 5 also included "The Supremes" which is probably my favorite episode of the show. Glenn Close owned hard and I wish they'd been able to get her to come back for a few episodes. Same with EJO. Honestly I think once the show basically becomes about Josh/Santos/Vinick and the race, from the latter parts of s6 through the end of the show is when it's at its best. CJ and Bartlett kind of get shoved to the back but Bradley Whitford/Alan Alda/Jimmy Smits all did an amazing job. I can't remember but wasn't there something where if John Spencer hadn't died then Vinick would have won the election? But yeah I think I'd rank the seasons: 2/3/4 > 1/7 > 6 > 5
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Jul 8, 2011 03:20
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Mandoira posted:I can't remember but wasn't there something where if John Spencer hadn't died then Vinick would have won the election? I've heard that too (and also that it was planned that way regardless). Not sure. And yeah, The Supremes is definitely one of the highlights of the show.
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Jul 8, 2011 03:24
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I've heard that too (and also that it was planned that way regardless). Not sure. "You're putting my parents' cats on the supreme court!" Apparently the set for the West Wing was the same set from "This American President." I guess that's about the only way you'd be able to afford a set like that for a TV show.
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Jul 8, 2011 04:52
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FISHMANPET posted:"You're putting my parents' cats on the supreme court!" Just the oval office. All the other sets were made just for the show.
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Jul 8, 2011 05:44
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Mu Zeta posted:Just the oval office. All the other sets were made just for the show. The American President is a great movie. Watch it in the middle of a West Wing episode binge to mix things up, then go back to West Wing to see how the beat just goes on and on. My mom always compared the show to 'Gilmore Girls' because of the snappy effortless banter. She swears no-one really talks like that. After binging on some West Wing, I turned on Gilmore Girls and OH GOD SHE WAS RIGHT. Same pace and beat, except you don't expect the cast of Gilmore Girls to be that drat witty, and hope that white house staff is. Unless they have better things to do then have snappy walk-with-me conversations on the way to the coffee machine.
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Jul 8, 2011 06:03
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Another thing I noticed when I watched this show was the way everyone always said, "okay...". They made a thing about it, was it ever mentioned by Sorkin or is it just one of those things?
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Jul 8, 2011 06:19
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Did someone ask for me? OP, the President goes by "Jed". "Jeb" is the name that a terrible fictional former Florida governor goes by. Josh Lyman fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Jul 8, 2011 |
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Jul 8, 2011 08:07
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Do we really need spoilers for a show that ended five years ago? It's not like an spoiler-free rewatch thread or anything.mcbexx posted:Matthew Perry Matthew Perry as a guest star amused me because the actor was referenced earlier in the show. So in the West Wing universe Matthew Perry also exists as an actor. Then again in Studio 60 (hey Matthew Perry again) there's a Bartlet campaign poster in one of the rooms, and Alison Janney is in playing herself... so in the Studio 60 universe etc, etc. MY SUSPENSION OF DISBELIEF! I don't actually care about that stuff, it just amused me. On an unrelated note does anyone else thing Sorkin is really heavily influenced by MASH? Particularly later MASH when it was more dramatic. He's a big fan of framing episodes with a "gimmick". Like an event through the eyes of a secondary character or as a letter to a relative and a few other things like that (many of these lifted directly from similar episodes on Sports Night). A lot of these are things that MASH did first and I've always thought it was a big influence on him. I guess Sports Night is a better comparison as it has a similar tone with regards to serious business in a sitcom.
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Jul 8, 2011 09:21
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I think MASH influenced everything that followed it.
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Jul 8, 2011 09:31
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TheBigBad posted:I think MASH influenced everything that followed it. No doubt. But I think Gravy Jones has a point. I never really thought about it before, but after he mentioned it I'd definitely agree.
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Jul 8, 2011 09:35
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Speaking of MASH I would say Donna is pretty much Radar, Josh has a bit of Hawkeye in him, and Leo is Col. Potter. I always get depressed after watching The West Wing because real US politics is filled with people that are much more incompetent and evil. Real republicans are as close to comic book villains as you can get, while the Democrats never make any worthwhile progress on anything.
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Jul 8, 2011 10:57
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