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Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy
I'd really love to be proven wrong, but for all I have been able to find out, these all just work in one direction from Mini-DP out to whatever, i.e. if you have a computer that has Mini-DP output (Mac or some PCs whose graphics card have Mini-DP out), then you can connect those to displays that take VGA/HDMI etc. as input. It doesn't work in the other direction, so you will still not be able to connect your PC with VGA/HDMI output to a Cinema/Thunderbolt display using those cables.

My situation is that I have a late 2009 iMac which is essentially like a Cinema Display with a built-in Mac that can take Mini-DP input. After some research it looks like the only way to connect a PC to it is to get a graphics card with DP or Mini-DP out and carefully check if it supports the 2560x1440 resolution. There are crap cards out there that do have DP but max out at 1600x1200 or somesuch when using it.

There is a somewhat informative little Q&A article on Apple's site here.

Astro7x posted:

So I'm sort of in the same boat... I'm trying to weight the option of getting the Cinema Display now and be able to actually use the USB ports on the back. Or get a Thunderbolt display and future proof myself for when I eventually someday get a computer that supports it.
Without a Thunderbolt capable Mac, that display is going to be nothing but one huge, heavy paperweight. So far, all signs point to it really only working with Thunderbolt Macs.

Astro7x posted:

Edit: So the other day I pointed out that on the Thunderbolt Display page they show the MacPro next to the display in the photos, even though it's impossible to connect a Thunderbolt Display to a current generation MacPro properly since none of them support Thunderbolt with noway to add them. Well... since then they've taken down that image. I guess that clarifies that.
I've ordered the Thunderbolt Display (but as of right now, it's supposed to arrive in mid-September). I'll definitely try to connect my non-Thunderbolt MBP to it for fun, but I'm not expecting to get a picture out of it, only from the MBP with Thunderbolt. If I'll be the first to try it (yeah right), I'll post about it.

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Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy
Can anyone tell me a good way to pre-order upcoming hardware from Apple without having my bank balance flip flop several times?

I've ordered the Thunderbolt display on the first day when it appeared on Apple's website (July 20th or so). As of right now, Apple expects to deliver by September 17th. In the meantime, my bank account balance has twice been reduced by the price of the display for a few days and then reinstated. In both cases they were obviously not anywhere close to actually shipping it. The same thing happened when I pre-ordered the iPad 3G last year.

This seems to have something to do with how Bank of America (who I have the checking account with) treats these test transactions (or whatever they're called). Are different banks better about this? Why does Apple even have to pre-check twice whether I have the money? And twice in each case? If I don't have it when they're about to ship the display, they could just cancel the order. It's not like this display is somehow custom-made to my exact specifications and couldn't be sold to the next customer.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Vivian Darkbloom posted:

Is it worth upgrading my 13" MBP from 4 gigs to 8 gigs memory? I don't play games or anything too intensive on here - mainly schoolwork and internet stuff.
I understand why people told you not to, but on the other hand it costs next to nothing and can extend the useful life of your MBP for a while. I would do it before the type of memory you need goes up in price or becomes hard to find.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Shmoogy posted:

They probably have to renew the hold every month or few weeks or something.
Yeah. Still annoying. I can pre-order anything on Amazon and be safe in the knowledge that I'll only be charged when they ship it. I don't know why Apple is doing this. (Probably because they can and people like me still buy their products all the time.)

Chemmy posted:

Get a credit card. Apple gives you 0% interest for a while too.
I already have one (not from Apple) and having too many credit cards is supposedly not good for credit ratings. I just didn't use it for this purchase.

What I think is remarkable about that credit they're advertising is how the most desirable brand name in the world (or close to it) and Barclays Bank ended up putting "barclaycard" on those cards and nothing else. People would hate to have Apple branded credit cards, I'm sure.

Thank you, guys!

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

DoktorLoken posted:

Anyone having issues with their 5th gen AEBS becoming invisible to the configuration utility as well as not being able to connect to a USB HD shared via it? Rebooting the base station solves the problem but it's been happening a lot on mine.
Not at all having this problem. I've replaced my 4th generation one with a new 5th generation one and am using the older one to extend the network. I'm sharing a USB HD on the 5th generation model for Time Machine backups.

Is it at all possible that your wireless channels are crowded by other people? I have about 10-15 802.11g networks around me, but no other 802.11n ones (and that's what I'm using at 5GHz).

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

A FUCKTON OF WEED posted:

Ah great... the photos on the Apple website showed the TB display connected up to the MBPs and the cable looked short.
I have that display. The cable is longer than it would need to be in any situation I could imagine. I'd guess it's about 4 feet long or so.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Mr. Onslaught posted:

For example, can Windows 7 talk to the monitor the same way I saw it working in Lion? Specifically, would an Air running Windows 7 be able to use the Thunderbolt display and have it instantly pop on and offer you the settings and such?

Yeah. I have that type of setup with a 17" MBP but the Air does that too. After you've set it up once, it doesn't offer you to set it up though, it just detects if the display is there and uses it.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy
I've had a problem with any 3D graphics freezing for about one third of a second about every 10-20 seconds in any game on my early 2011 MBP 17".

As far as I can tell it' not a hardware problem because games are running fine in Windows 7. Specifically, Team Fortress 2 freezes up in Mac OS, but not in Windows. GTA San Andreas freezes up in Mac OS even when I play it on 800x600. Half-Life 2 Episode 2 also freezes up in Mac OS.

The problem has persisted through all versions of Mac OS ever since that MBP came out (10.6.6 through 10.7.3). I haven't really pursued the issue because I'm not playing games all that much on that machine and it's fine otherwise.

I have tried disabling and enabling the setting in Mac OS that switches between graphics systems. Same results for both settings.

I have googled for solutions and found some people describing similar things, but no solutions. Should I have it serviced? It seems that if this problem was widespread, it would be well-known. While I think the graphics hardware itself seems to be working right, maybe there's something wrong with the logic board that only shows up in Mac OS.

Thank you for any ideas.

Mr. Smile Face Hat fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Feb 8, 2012

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Mr. Onslaught posted:

Ah ok cool thanks. Is there any bump in performance if you are just mirroring the display on the big monitor with your laptop closed? There is a real lack of hands on info about Thunderbolt and Windows, which makes sense I guess. I did come across this unrelated thing though, kind of interesting:

I'm not noticing any performance degradation, but I'm not mirroring the display. I'm using its full resolution (2560x1440), whether I've got the lid closed or not. Mirroring would mean that I'd be using a non-native 1920x1200 on the Thunderbolt Display.

One limitation of the Air vs. the MBP is that the Air (at least the 11" one, not sure about the 13") can only use one Thunderbolt Display whereas the MBP can use two.

The Apple bluetooth keyboard and the magic mouse also work in Windows.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Your Dead Gay Son posted:

I thought you could daisy-chain the thunderbolt displays to each other?

Yes you can and that's how it's done but there's a limit to how many you can actually use. The MBP can use two and the Air one. Check this link: http://www.tuaw.com/2011/09/18/thunderbolt-display-daisy-chaining-spec-cleared-up/

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy
I've had a problem with any 3D graphics freezing for about one third of a second about every 10-20 seconds in any game on my early 2011 MBP 17".

As far as I can tell it' not a hardware problem because games are running fine in Windows 7. Specifically, Team Fortress 2 freezes up in Mac OS, but not in Windows. GTA San Andreas freezes up in Mac OS even when I play it on 800x600. Half-Life 2 Episode 2 also freezes up in Mac OS.

The problem has persisted through all versions of Mac OS ever since that MBP came out (10.6.6 through 10.7.3). I haven't really pursued the issue because I'm not playing games all that much on that machine and it's fine otherwise.

I have tried disabling and enabling the setting in Mac OS that switches between graphics systems. Same results for both settings.

I have googled for solutions and found some people describing similar things, but no solutions. Should I have it serviced? It seems that if this problem was widespread, it would be well-known. While I think the graphics hardware itself seems to be working right, maybe there's something wrong with the logic board that only shows up in Mac OS.

Thank you for any ideas.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Gaussian posted:

I'm really close to buying a Macbook Pro of some variety (probably the 13) and really want to pull the trigger, but I get the impression I should wait a couple of months for the new Intel chips, is that accurate? I wouldn't really use it for games or anything. Should I be patient?*

*I hate being patient.

You're in luck. Your question is answered in the first post of this thread.

There's no way to seriously answer your question, particularly not with the amount of info you're giving.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Lord Lilf posted:

I plan on having it upgraded to 8gb of RAM later on.

Two thoughts: 1. I'd do the upgrade myself. There's basically nothing that can reasonably go wrong and it won't void any warranties. You open two screws and then push some memory into slots. I've done it myself on my 2009 27".
2. Go for 16 GB. 8 is nice and all but memory is pretty cheap (unless you're very poor, but then you probably wouldn't have been able to afford an 21.5" iMac to begin with) and if you'd ever decided to go from 8-16 later on you'd have to get rid of the 8 GB.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Lord Lilf posted:

16g would be nice but unfortunately it only supports up to 8GB, or at least according to Apple.
Right, looks like not all iMacs are equal. Yours might still support 16 gigs in a 2x8 configuration. At least some laptops can use 16 gigs even though Apple doesn't advertise that fact.


Lord Lilf posted:

Working for tech support I remember we used to get a lot of calls about third party RAM not working sometimes. Is there a reliable brand of third-party ram that anyone would recommend?

I wonder if the first post of the thread could have any information about that... personally I'm using G.SKILL and Crucial with no problems.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy
While I'm not really mad at Apple, my 27" iMac is now getting its display repaired for the third time and I'm wondering what to say or do when they mess it up the third time.

This is a refurb I got in September of 2010 (and it's got AppleCare).

First there was what I assumed to be a black spot of dirt on the inside of the glass panel. (It wasn't dead pixels because the obscured pixels changed depending on the viewing angle.) Turned out to be a problem with the display itself, so they exchanged it. Now there was what looked like dust or smears in one area. They exchanged the glass panel. Still dust. They then sent me off telling me to remove the panel myself and clean it.

I never really did this because I didn't feel comfortable and was under the impression that I'm not supposed to service the iMac myself. (I build my own PCs but I'm buying Macs precisely so I don't have to mess with these types of crap.)

Fast forward to now. I'm finally having it repaired. They already told me that the dust was in the display itself.

I'm beginning to second-guess buying this refurb (my first and so far last). I'm getting the feeling somebody returned it because of that spot and that the replacement display they put in was also rejected by someone because any discerning person would immediately notice the dirt (it's easily visible on the white start-up screen).

Also, my time without the iMac overall will probably sum up to four week after this ongoing repair. Would it be at all unreasonable to ask that they add that on to the AppleCare at the end?

I promise I'm not a difficult customer. This is the first display I ever returned and I've had computers since the 80s.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Binary Badger posted:

There's allegedly some unwritten rule that if you have to undergo three major repairs in a row, that you should just get a new unit, but that's up to the manager's disgression, and if you do anything to hint that you know about this rule he / she may not pull the trigger on it. If it were me I'd just stress that it's the third time this has been repaired and you have lost invaluable amounts of time due to it.

Right, thank you. The main annoyance is having to lug this thing around. I'm not trying to get a new one, I'm trying to get somebody to spend 1 minute on it to check whether the replacement is working.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy
Am I missing some kind of in-joke by Apple? When I googled for "Apple Repair Status", I got this among the results:

http://www.apple.com/support/repairstatus/repair_detail3.html

No, I didn't bring a busted rear end Powerbook G4 for repair, no, I'm not Craig Ellsworth and no, I don't have a session cookie for that person either on any of my computers.

If I was Apple, I'd consider fixing this.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy
So they're both from the same school and both got declined... I guess there was the following discussion one fine day back in 2005:

"Look sir, no matter whether you're gonna call yourself 'Craig Ellsworth' or 'Michael' or whatever this time, we told you we're not going to fix your powerbooks that the kids used for playing frisbee - and if you don't shut up about it, we're going to make your info public on our site!"

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Binary Badger posted:

Most likely for training purposes, AppleCare pages looked like that right about the same time those models were actively selling.

I figured something like that too, but kinda strange still because they're making it look like they're exposing information that they ought to keep private.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Bass Bottles posted:

My 2007 macbook white has just had its second hard drive death in 7 months, and the battery life is essentially non-existent. I could get another hard drive and have the Apple Store put OS X back on it yet again (lost my discs) but it's starting to seem like more time/money than it's worth.

I know there's supposed to be a major refresh on the pro line soon, but how soon? I've read some people say end of April and others say mid-July.
Next week at 5 pm.

Nobody knows for sure. Read the first post of the thread.


Bass Bottles posted:

I'd really rather not go 3 months without a laptop.
Not trying to single you out (considering there have been at least four such posts that I can remember within the last few days), but do some people ever plan ahead? You and these other people have been watching their 2007 or whatever MacBooks fall apart visibly in slow motion (HD failures, parts breaking off, display breaking and whatnot) while just sitting there and making no provisions for the inevitable moment when the whole thing breaks for good.

I'm surprised at the amount at people who supposedly can't live without a computer and then they have exactly one.

I can really understand it if people don't have much money, but if you can afford any MacBook (Pro or not), you can also afford some cheap backup desktop or laptop machine of some kind that may cost you $200-300.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Violator posted:

Does anyone use Time Machine with a USB drive and an Airport Extreme? From what I've seen on Apple's support forum, it's technically doable but people are saying it's an unsupported feature, there are problems, and fire will rain from the heavens if you do it.

I've been using this for close to two years now for backups from two MBPs. It used to be borderline unusable because every fifth time or so when I had to interrupt the backups (which is common because they are slow as indicated by others here) due to needing to take the MBP elsewhere, I got the dreaded "Sparsebundle in use" error on the next backup attempt.

This somehow got fixed either by an AEBS firmware update or Lion or both and ever since then it's been rock solid for me.

I wouldn't recommend it at all if you're not using Lion.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

mayodreams posted:

From a licensing stand point, a single copy can not have two installs, so you could not have a virtual machine AND a boot camp install. However, Parallels and VMWare Fusion both allow you to run your boot camp install virtually, which would be ok with your one install limit. I know that seems confusing, but the latter is only one licensed install of Windows, and the former is two.

That's very nice but I've noticed that in practice it still doesn't work that way because Windows "sees" the Bootcamp and VM environments as different hardware (because the VM reports different hardware to it) and therefore one deactivates the other. At least this happened last time I checked about more than a year ago.

So while from a licensing standpoint the two might be the same install, there's no way of convincing Windows of that fact.

Super Dude posted:

Deactivation is usually a result of the license being registered on more than one computer.

Where "computer" can also be "hardware environment", as I described above.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

NESguerilla posted:

Is it a bad time to buy an iMac? I noticed some articles speculating new ones within a couple of weeks.
Given the time when iMacs usually come out and considering that Ivy Bridge is supposed to come out tomorrow, I would most definitely NOT buy a current iMac now unless it was an emergency.

NESguerilla posted:

I guess my main concern is mostly just Diablo 3. I do very little gaming so I probably can't justify an extra $800 for peace of mind. Hopefully D3 runs nicely on the low end model.
I've even been able to play it at a decent speed on 2560*1440 on my low-specced 27" late 2009 iMac (C2D at 3 GHz and 256 MB ATI).

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

NESguerilla posted:

Yeah, crossing my fingers they come out in less than 2 or 3 weeks. I'll probably wait till then.

Doesn't Apple have a policy that if they release a new device shortly after you purchase the previous model you can upgrade for free? Or am I just crazy?
You can always return it within 2 weeks and that gets talked about here all the time.

Personally I hate that idea. With Apple you'll never know for sure two weeks in advance whether there are going to be new models so that means you may have a gap between returning the iMac and the new one coming out. Then there's the whole hassle of doing the return. And lastly, thought that may be ridiculed around here, I'd feel kinda dirty because I'd be doing something unfun that in the final analysis adds to the cost of making and selling these things.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

mayodreams posted:

The loss of the the only portable with an Express Card slot is a sad day though, and ANOTHER shot at professionals using Macs. ThunderBolt is great in theory, but it's just too drat expensive for adding IO. The Magma expansion chassis is like $1k I think.

Okay... so what essential hardware is available for the Express Card slot only? Plus it's only a sad day once it becomes official. A Macrumors article quoting some "analyst" doesn't make it so.

Also, what's the problem with the cost of thunderbolt peripherals for people who would otherwise be buying a Mac Pro? Not even considering that prices for thunderbolt add-ons are likely to drop over time.

And discontinuing the 17" MBP would make a lot less sense than the Mac Pro, because the 17" is only a variation of the MBP whereas the Mac Pro is its own product. I wouldn't think that a lot of additional R&D and factory resources go into making the 17" when there's already the 13" and 15" models.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

mayodreams posted:

Basically I/O like eSATA, USB3, RAID cards, and video capture cards. Professional Sony video cameras use SxS cards to record, which are basically Express Cards with memory on them, so a laptop on set that can natively dump footage is fantastic. PowerBook G4's are still used in Panasonic camps because P2 cards are just PCMCIA cards with flash memory on them, and P2 readers are like $300-400 for slow rear end USB versions.
That's actually not too bad. On the other hand it looks like the writing is on the wall for Express Cards in light of Thunderbolt. I'd expect them to keep it though until prices for Thunderbolt peripherals drop.

mayodreams posted:

I agree that some analysis throwing poo poo against the wall isn't the best source for Apple's future business decisions. I am just saying it wouldn't surprise me.
Anything is possible, but while I'm seeing a lot of good reasons to drop the Mac Pro, I'm not seeing any good ones regarding the 17". There are just too many synergies in favor of keeping it.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Roloc posted:

And I have to take it to some college kid that calls himself a 'Genius' to get it fixed. "
Speaking of infuriating language: What actually made me toy for a moment with the idea of dropping the Mac immediately was how the diagrams in the financial report and apparently even Tim Cook referred to Macs as "CPUs". (Well I was not really going to disassociate myself from everything Apple, but I this "CPU" thing means that somebody is either ignorant or pandering to ignoramuses.)

My main motivation for having Macs is peace of mind. Everything generally works and it's easy to fix it (or have it fixed) when something breaks.

I still build my own PCs, mostly for gaming and encoding video (Windows) and for various server tasks (Linux). Apple just isn't very big on gaming and server OSs. (I could maybe take a second look at OS X server but I also don't feel like taking computing resources away from my iMac to run services on it.)

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Arrowsmith posted:

This is just precious.

I cannot imagine living a life where the pretentiousness of others causes even the slightest bit of agitation, or any concern at all. People would be so much happier if they stopped giving a poo poo about non-issues like this.

Since it's actually fun to dissect these words, I'll tell you why I'm giving a poo poo about one of them:

The "Genius" thing doesn't bother me at all because you have to call your technicians something, the name might make them feel good and who knows, some of them may actually be geniuses. in any event, it's clear who is being referred to.

Calling a computer a "CPU" bothers me because it's incorrect and confusing in any situation. It's one thing when someone's clueless grandma does it, but if the CEO of a company that actually sells computers does it, it can only mean that he either doesn't know one of the most basic things about how the things he sells work, or that he's talking down to the audience.

It's also a real unclear term no matter how you look at it:
- Is everything that has a CPU a "CPU"? So why are iOS devices not "CPUs"?
- Is an actual CPU (= the part) a "CPU"?
- What about computers that have more than one CPU? Is a Mac Pro with 2 CPUs a "CPU"?

This is actually the opposite of pretentiousness, it's trying to be folksy.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

x-virge posted:

Regardless of other ridiculousness here (it seems a bizarre thing to get upset about), I was curious to find a source for this. I listen to the earnings calls and don't remember such a thing happening. Usually Macs are referred to as, well, Macs. Desktops and portables.

It turns out that old reports did have a "Subtotal CPUs" section (differentiating Macs from iPods), but any such mentions have been absent from the past few earnings calls (it's now "Subtotal Mac"). So it seems like someone fixed it.

Okay good thing then that they fixed this. I had believed people elsewhere who said that this was still in the current report.

I don't know if it's so bizarre to care about whether the heads of a company that try to sell things know the first thing about them. I'm not asking Tim Cook to recite the disassembly of the Mac boot loader.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Vidmaster posted:

I hope they release the new macbooks before that, I've been saving up and don't want to wait that long! Waiting for the new os version would make sense though.

And what sense would that make exactly? I've also never seen them do it before. They definitely didn't do it with Lion.

I'd say there's something in the bush, either retina or similar. If they wanted to have kept the same hardware designs with just a few minor additions, the new ones would be out now.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Bob Morales posted:

Look at this guy, he thinks Apple would so something because it makes sense.

I generalize from my way of thinking and you from yours, with the results speaking for themselves. Thank you for your incredibly helpful post!

I don't think Apple got to where they are now by just doing random poo poo, but you're welcome to.

At any rate: If they had planned to just make some pedestrian additions to the MBPs, they'd be out by now. At this point I'd think they're waiting for some planned non-CPU hardware to get ready or they're planning to release all three MBP sizes at the same time when the dual-core Ivy Bridge CPUs are out.

And I doubt that the imbeciles (well, maybe there were a few legit cases also) who had trouble with installing Lion have cost Apple more than the benefits of having their hardware out earlier last year. If releasing operating systems would be a net negative, Apple wouldn't plan on decreasing the intervals to 50%.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

fleshweasel posted:

There are reasons to delay a spec bump. Apple is pretty frugal about their component orders, so if they can sell a specific model for a few months longer, delaying the refurb store markdowns and so on, they will.

Well yeah, and if they could sell the same thing forever, they'd do that also. The problem with that strategy is just that people are going to expect even Apple to incorporate new CPUs into their computers at some point. When Sandy Bridge came out, they had the new MBPs out the same week if I remember correctly.

Just to make sure, what we're waiting on here for the MBPs isn't just a "spec bump" (in Apple terms), that was what came out last October. We're waiting for upgraded CPUs (and hopefully other things such as displays).

Anyway, the question was why, all things being equal and having an actual market out there, it would make sense to hold back new hardware until a new OS version comes out. And I've seen no technical justification and a very weak and speculative business one.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

CaptainMidnight posted:

Did anyone here
I here

CaptainMidnight posted:

about the 17 inch MBP's that are being discontinued by Apple? I always thought those were to big. I'll take the 15 inch MBP.
But only with "Tiger 10.5" please, because you like that best. Don't buy "Troll Captain Midnight 10.4" or something. I won't.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Small White Dragon posted:

If they're going to do retina screens in the next revision, it makes sense to wait for ML. Presumably the software side isn't done, yet.

Presumably we know just about jack poo poo whether something is done or not. But apart from that question, what major "software side" is there to a retina display? It's just a display with a higher resolution, and there needs to be optional support for making some elements larger so they're reasonably visible under that resolution. This could also be added to Lion and doesn't justify waiting an indefinite amount of time for a new OS version. (It would be a different story if there already was a release candidate of ML.)

The Sandy Bridge MBPs also needed OS X additions in order to support the CPUs and Thunderbolt, so Apple just rolled a special version of Snow Leopard for their release before re-joining the branches with the next SL update. I don't see how that would be impossible for Ivy Bridge and retina displays.

Back then, the point of "it makes sense for them to wait for Lion" would have had the same technological validity.

Mr. Smile Face Hat fucked around with this message at 23:29 on May 3, 2012

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Small White Dragon posted:

There are a lot of things Apple *COULD* do, but with ML just around the corner, I'd be shocked if we see the displays before the new OS.
For all we know, ML could come out in September, and I wouldn't call that "just around the corner".

I'm just wondering on what kind of recent track record you're basing being shocked about that when they neither held anything for Snow Leopard nor for Lion.

The theory that it would make a lot of sense for them to hold the MBPs until whenever ML comes out seems to be the baseless fad here before the next one shows up. I'm not pretending to know better, it's just interesting how people here are so sure when there's no precedent.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

crunk and white posted:

These words, in this order, don't make sense.

You're right about that, but the reason people are thinking so comes from iOS retina displays, which have been the only ones called that so far. iOS apps all use fixed resolutions. Therefore the way to go when it became time to switch to retina displays was to quadruple the resolution (i.e. double it in both dimensions). The alternatives would have been to either have existing apps look blurry or stretched due to having an uneven zoom factor (like using an odd non-native resolution on an LCD) or to have all developers redo all their applications (not likely to happen).

This whole consideration does not apply to OS X or any other desktop OS with freely resizable windows. Therefore retina on a Mac wouldn't mean four times the previous resolution, it would just mean whatever is appropriate for retina.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Mercurius posted:

Apple currently only offers 1920x1200 on the 17" MBP as a BTO option

No. That's standard and the only resolution you can get on the current 17 inch.

And I seriously hope that the next 17 inch is going to have a higher resolution than my iPad or at least the same.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

NESguerilla posted:

I know I am not breaking any new ground by saying this, but Apples policy of announcing new poo poo right before it comes out is total crap. Its just so obnoxious sitting around without my new computer gambling on whether or not websites have predicted the new releases correctly.
Yeah that's different from all the other companies who announce their new comps months in advance like um... uh...

NESguerilla posted:

The stupidest thing is that if they do release a new one within a month of when I buy mine, I'm just gonna send it back at their expense and upgrade. I'm sure a shitload of people do that every time they release a new product and it all could be avoided by just letting their customers be informed.
If I had to guess, then I'd say the percentage of Apple customers who cares about release dates is maybe 5-10% and the percentage crazy enough to gamble on release dates by buying things they plan to return is maybe 0.05%, if that.

The rest just buys things they feel they need, whenever.

NESguerilla posted:

It's a like a big STFU to a customer who wants to throw $1500 bucks at them asap.

If you need a computer, buy it now.

I also love it when some people here get like "OMG my 2007 MacBook is on its last leg and I need a new MBP NOW!!!!!!!!!"

Plan your life a little. Buy a secondary MBP or PC laptop or Mac Mini or whatever and buy new things before the old one falls apart.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

fleshweasel posted:

There's no shame in doing your damndest to keep using a piece of "old" tech instead of just replacing it. Hell, it's probably in all of our futures. When in human history has such a fundamental tool been useable for such a short time?

When an item is important for you to do your job, then there's absolutely shame in having only one, keeping it around until it breaks or is about to break and then whining like it's not your fault for not planning better.

There's always been things around that are fundamental and need servicing and replacing after a few years - shoes and other clothing items come to mind.

I also don't see any benefit in putting this into historical perspective: The people posting this kind of stuff here and elsewhere are not 80 years old, and they know what's going on.

Is it really worthy of discussion whether or not professionals in any field should have failsafes and backups?

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Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

rawrr posted:

I think with apple products, upgrades are frequently more of a "want" than "need".

Right - I was only talking about people who claim they're professionals, students or similar. I'm not faulting someone's grandma for having a computer from 2002.

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