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Walliard posted:Uhh, it shouldn't do that. Do you have an account? As for the fact of taking Hussie's art style... It's kind of a trend for adventures in the MSPA forums to have that style. Of course, not all of them do, but still.
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Aug 2, 2011 19:13
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And it's hardly even taking his style, either. I mean, the characters at least have arms.
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Aug 2, 2011 19:15
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I'm curious what about his style is being lifted. I've never gotten around to slogging through MSPA so I pretty much only have all the avatars on SA to go by. It did seem like the sort of jumpy animation Prequel has is similar to the way the avatars move.
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Aug 2, 2011 19:33
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Zenzirouj posted:I'm curious what about his style is being lifted. I've never gotten around to slogging through MSPA so I pretty much only have all the avatars on SA to go by. It did seem like the sort of jumpy animation Prequel has is similar to the way the avatars move. Both the jumpy animations, and the way the action shots are drawn, such as http://www.mspaintadventures.com/scratch.php?s=6&p=005586 compared to most of the panels in http://prequeladventure.com/2011/07/604/. I guess the use of flash kind of counts too, but that's kind of stretching it. Apart from that, the art is mostly different than Homestuck.
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Aug 2, 2011 20:09
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I know its not quite the same thing, but reinterpretation of existing characters and re-examining old tropes is one of the staples of art in general and comics very specifically. Alan Moore did LOEG and Watchmen which were both new stories told using existing characters (though for Watchmen he had to change the characters he'd originally intended to use to avoid stepping too hard on DC's toes). Both of them were pretty excellent comics. If someone wants to set a story inside of the world of Oblivion and the story they tell differs dramatically in tone and content from the story of Oblivion, then whats the problem?
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Aug 2, 2011 20:31
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I just want to say that I didn't start playing Oblivion until after I started reading Prequel and enjoying the writing and characters. When I saw Quill-Weave walking around I quietly went "heh" to myself and went back to cutting up frost dwarves.
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Aug 2, 2011 21:05
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It's less the Oblivion stuff (Which is an affectionate parody* and I can't hate it) and more the MSPA stuff that gets me, I mean, obviously this is far less obtuse than MSPA and has a palette that I can actually look at, but theres a lot of structural aping in a way that isn't satirical, and doesn't really add anything, it's just the same because, I assume, of the aforementioned desire to attract a crowd. Having said that. It looks quite cute, and by being a bit less out there than MSPA I think he's created something, to be honest, better. I don't know if I would read this, I would certainly read it over MSPA. *It's also a very mild parody, occasionally it touches on Oblivion things but.. not too often. I'm not saying that it's good or bad, it does mean it doesn't really add anything though. Does the Oblivion aspect really pull readers? Seems like your readership would be far more of an MSPA lot. ShineDog fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Aug 2, 2011 |
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Aug 2, 2011 21:15
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Oblivion spoilers:I'm looking forward to seeing what a not-devastated Kvatch looks like. It might even be sad to see nice people or people Katia befriends there, since they probably bite it when the whole Oblivion thing happens. On the other hand at least we'll know any jerks she meets will get their comeuppance.
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Aug 2, 2011 21:19
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ShineDog posted:It's less the Oblivion stuff (Which is an affectionate parody* and I can't hate it) and more the MSPA stuff that gets me, I mean, obviously this is far less obtuse than MSPA and has a palette that I can actually look at, but theres a lot of structural aping in a way that isn't satirical, and doesn't really add anything, it's just the same because, I assume, of the aforementioned desire to attract a crowd. Well, I think the Oblivion aspect isn't too minor All signs thus far point to Katia being the main character from Oblivion. She dreams non-stop of what seems to be a caricature of the Emperor, the Dragon Amulet is a pretty dead giveaway (think that's what it's called anyway).
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Aug 2, 2011 21:35
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All I can say is I like the fact that the dialog isn't given in chatlog format. That alone makes MSPA unreadable to me.
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Aug 2, 2011 22:10
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Captain Oblivious posted:Well, I think the Oblivion aspect isn't too minor Further in now, yeah, I spoke too soon. - Also, progressing through it, it moves fairly swiftly away from MSPA, to the point that weird holdovers like ==> seem pretty pointless. But I suppose I can accept this as a kind of weird little side genre as opposed to a knockoff. Edit - Oh hey lookit my opinion on this turn around. ShineDog fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Aug 2, 2011 |
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Aug 2, 2011 22:30
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My favorite mudcrabs are the ones I can just copy and paste every time I need to show them. SirSamVimes posted:In all seriousness though, great to have you here. How far have you planned ahead? I don't want details of course, just curious about how much of the storyline you have in mind, and how much you're willing to railroad if you have to. Your question really depends on your definition of railroading. One of the major things I'm trying to build into the "gameplay" is a time delay between cause and effect. The best example is when Katia got robbed on the highway. People called that railroading because none of their escape plans worked, while in actuality the "time to prevent it" would have been if Katia had told Quill-Weave about the money Gharug left. The result was locked before they ever knew they caused it. I know a few different ways things can pan out, and even if people never realize they have control, they are driving the outcomes. Reiley posted:However, I will strongly advise against telling people the reasons you're using fanwork to build an audience like you have in this tread, since your reasons provided all sound manipulative and ethically bankrupt. Captain Oblivious posted:If the terms manipulative and ethically bankrupt are terms you feel comfortable throwing around with something as trivial as "gauging audience areas of interest and how to engage them" then I...I think you might want to get out in the real world. The Worst Unicorn posted:Well. . . yeah, I guess doing something original is 'dangerous' in the sense that not everyone will like it. But that's it. In a lot of ways, this is an experiment for me in operating on multiple levels at once. There are people who liked the story because it was TES-related, there's people who liked the story because it was MSPA-styled, and there's people who liked the story without even knowing what TES and MSPA were. Would there really be something more "pure" about the story had I exclusively targetted that latter group, who undeniably appreciate it as an independent work? I guess that's a matter of opinion. The Worst Unicorn posted:All said I do appreciate that you came here for discussion, Kazerad. I'm not meaning to argue for you to turn the direction of Prequel around or anything, it just got me thinking. Kazerad fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Aug 17, 2011 |
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Aug 2, 2011 22:31
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I personally know practically nothing about Oblivion and also don't see all that much similarity between Prequel and MSPA/Homestuck as opposed to just similarity between works that are both interactive. I still highly appreciate Prequel for its humor, art, interesting setting (I should probably play Oblivion), and interactive nature. It's fun. And fun shouldn't be bogged down in whinging about "real art" and debates over whether the catgirl is a furry or not. I like this thing. I enjoy reading it. I would like to see more. I think you are very good at this, Kazerad. That's all. Also hurry and update already. 
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Aug 2, 2011 22:44
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MSPA, Oblivion blah blah BLAH. I'm here for the character development, that is why I am here. Also please don't listen to the numbers. Enjoy what you do and listen to people muttering without completel interacting with them.
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Aug 2, 2011 23:17
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Oh man if Kazerad's going to be in here I suppose I'll actually keep track of this thread. It's nice to have discussion with its own thread instead of in the MSPA thread  This adventure has made me tempted to play Oblivion and I very well may grab it soon.
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Aug 3, 2011 00:26
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Fishbus posted:MSPA, Oblivion blah blah BLAH. Going back to the epic of Gilgamesh, and thousands of years of storytelling, 147 million books and media in the Library Of Congress, you are looking for character development in a shamefully derivative "comic" drawn in MS Paint. Congratulations.
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Aug 3, 2011 00:54
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EvilKosh posted:Going back to the epic of Gilgamesh, and thousands of years of storytelling, 147 million books and media in the Library Of Congress, you are looking for character development in a shamefully derivative "comic" drawn in MS Paint. Congratulations. ahahahaha this is adorable also - why is considering the audience and trying to get as large of an audience considered a bad thing? I guarantee your favorite professional writers and artists strategize about getting audiences too. "Hey, this is popular, so I should try to do something like that" is hardly unique to webcomics. Hell, you can't knock Prequel for it without knocking Oblivion for ripping off D&D and Tolkien etc.
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Aug 3, 2011 01:12
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EvilKosh posted:Going back to the epic of Gilgamesh, and thousands of years of storytelling, 147 million books and media in the Library Of Congress, you are looking for character development in a shamefully derivative "comic" drawn in MS Paint. Congratulations. So, Kaz, what's the update schedule you're trying to maintain, or is it just "when the gently caress ever i feel like updating"
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Aug 3, 2011 01:19
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clockworkjoe posted:ahahahaha this is adorable It's a slightly different thing to derive elements from someones work and to simply place your story within it. However, it's mostly a sort of parody (although thats a really weird vehicle for all of the self loathing in the story) so it pretty much gets a pass on that front from me. I'm still a bit iffy on the MSPA stuff, I understand that it's almost a new genre and certain things are going to carry over, but some of the carryovers are simply there as an MSPA fan grab and I actually think they hurt the presentation of the story to any outsiders.
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Aug 3, 2011 01:31
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clockworkjoe posted:ahahahaha this is adorable As much as I'd like to talk about the lack of originality in fantasy it's really got nothing to do with what we're talking about here. Just because other people are unoriginal it doesn't excuse that this isn't a pathetic fan-fiction that is trying to gain an audience and display ads for the authors benefit. EvilKosh fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Aug 3, 2011 |
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Aug 3, 2011 02:07
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Can we please just quit responding to this guy? He's obviously got no intention of having any kind of intelligent discussion in regards to this, he just wants to come in here and lord it over us how much more cultured and well-read he is. If we stop responding to him he'll get bored and go bother people in TVIV about how they're all losers for watching stuff on TV while he's out living in the real world, ma-a-a-a-an.
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Aug 3, 2011 02:11
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Phylodox posted:Can we please just quit responding to this guy? He's obviously got no intention of having any kind of intelligent discussion in regards to this, he just wants to come in here and lord it over us how much more cultured and well-read he is. If we stop responding to him he'll get bored and go bother people in TVIV about how they're all losers for watching stuff on TV while he's out living in the real world, ma-a-a-a-an. Is this directed at me? Or is it directed at the author of this comic who compares himself to Hemingway?
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Aug 3, 2011 02:29
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EvilKosh posted:Is this directed at me? Or is it directed at the author of this comic who compares himself to Hemingway? Edit: Nevermind
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Aug 3, 2011 02:32
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EvilKosh posted:Going back to the epic of Gilgamesh, and thousands of years of storytelling, 147 million books and media in the Library Of Congress, you are looking for character development in a shamefully derivative "comic" drawn in MS Paint. Congratulations. Sorry you can't enjoy new things forever.I'm not holding it up on a pedestal, nor am I deriding it. I'm just reading it. Who the gently caress cares.
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Aug 3, 2011 03:18
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EvilKosh posted:As much as I'd like to talk about the lack of originality in fantasy it's really got nothing to do with what we're talking about here. Just because other people are unoriginal it doesn't excuse that this isn't a pathetic fan-fiction that is trying to gain an audience and display ads for the authors benefit. you hate fan fiction. If it was set in a fantasy setting of the author's creation but otherwise remained exactly the same, you would be okay with it.
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Aug 3, 2011 03:47
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clockworkjoe posted:you hate fan fiction. Ignore button is right in the profile, click it. I started reading this comic because of this thread and, after a shaky start, I'm actually invested in this character. Good job, Kaz.
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Aug 3, 2011 03:50
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Is it just me, or has everything EvilKosh said in this thread boiled down to "STOP HAVING FUN!"? Anyway, I'm debating being the trendsetter to get the first Prequel avatar, but I'm torn on what to use as Katia makes so many amusing/adorable faces that would work. Also, next update needs to hurry up! I want to see her fight/run from/get mauled by mud crabs.
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Aug 3, 2011 03:54
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LtStorm posted:Anyway, I'm debating being the trendsetter to get the first Prequel avatar, but I'm torn on what to use as Katia makes so many amusing/adorable faces that would work. I think her face from her executing all the fallback plans at once would work. If I cared enough for an avatar, that's what I'd try to get, at least.
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Aug 3, 2011 03:58
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Kazerad posted:I recognize your concerns but think you underestimate the power of a large readership. They are more than simply a number; they are a mass of individuals, each one with his or her own reason for reading. I watch where they come from, and analyze how these numbers fluctuate with every page that is posted. Whenever possible, I monitor reader opinions and how they differ from every corner of the internet. Themes emerge; people begin to fall into relatively distinct camps of why they read/don't read. It's valuable to recognize that the author-reader relationship goes both ways; if a single critic is valuable learning tool for an artist, a consensus is priceless. So what market insights have you gained from deliberately targeting your little social experiment at people who value its referentiality towards other media over your own input, in a way that can never be monetized? That there's an overlap between video game fans, webcomic fans, and furries? That if you don't try you can never fail? You seem to have gone out of your way to target these very specific groups that you act sorta contemptuous of, what does the overt MSPA derivation or setting everything in Literally Oblivion™ gain you specifically that couldn't be achieved better otherwise, if the ultimate goal was to produce non-fan work? You seem sort of defensive about the whole thing and other peoples' inferences about your motives but you never actually explained what your goal is or how this furthers it.
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Aug 3, 2011 04:05
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LtStorm posted:Anyway, I'm debating being the trendsetter to get the first Prequel avatar, but I'm torn on what to use as Katia makes so many amusing/adorable faces that would work. I posted these to the MSPA thread before this one got started. I might have to do more. Factory Factory posted:Jumped the gun on a Prequel thread
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Aug 3, 2011 04:11
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The way I see it, there are two reasons to produce fan-fiction. The bad, more common reason is basically self-insertion fantasy. That generally produces low-quality fiction that goes nowhere and serves no purpose. The better, less common reason is to hone your writing skill without having to create a setting or characters out of whole cloth. It's the literary equivalent of training wheels, letting you get the hang of writing in a safe, known world, perhaps allowing you to explore themes or ideas that weren't necessarily presented in the original work. Like the self-insertion fan-fiction, it can never really go anywhere, since eventually you're doomed to run into the copyright wall, but it can serve a purpose; at worst, it's practice and at best it can still entertain people. I'm not sure of its worth as market research or audience building, but I wouldn't be prepared to dismiss the idea out of hand.
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Aug 3, 2011 04:12
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Tubgirl Cosplay posted:So what market insights have you gained from deliberately targeting your little social experiment at people who value its referentiality towards other media over your own input, in a way that can never be monetized? That there's an overlap between video game fans, webcomic fans, and furries? That if you don't try you can never fail? You seem to have gone out of your way to target these very specific groups that you act sorta contemptuous of, what does the overt MSPA derivation or setting everything in Literally Oblivion™ gain you specifically that couldn't be achieved better otherwise, if the ultimate goal was to produce non-fan work? Gotta be honest, I did have a lot of moments with an eyebrow raised while reading.
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Aug 3, 2011 04:24
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100 HOGS AGREE posted:So, Kaz, what's the update schedule you're trying to maintain, or is it just "when the gently caress ever i feel like updating" Tubgirl Cosplay posted:So what market insights have you gained from deliberately targeting your little social experiment at people who value its referentiality towards other media over your own input, in a way that can never be monetized? That there's an overlap between video game fans, webcomic fans, and furries? That if you don't try you can never fail? You seem to have gone out of your way to target these very specific groups that you act sorta contemptuous of, what does the overt MSPA derivation or setting everything in Literally Oblivion™ gain you specifically that couldn't be achieved better otherwise, if the ultimate goal was to produce non-fan work? What insights have I gained? When I'm all done with this I'll probably write a long retrospective (with graphs and poo poo) about my experiences for anyone who is curious, but there are a few highlights. For one, I got to see the comparative effects of different advertising methods first-hand. Reddit had a much larger effect on my readership than I thought it would, as did word-of-mouth advertising (which seems to account for somewhere between 5 and 25%). I was also rather surprised that among readers who never heard of MSPA, I have seen nobody who was bothered by the blatant copy-pasting and jarring shifts in art style. In fact most of them seemed to like the shifts in art style, making me feel as though maybe my attempts in the past to abide by wholly consistent art styles for my projects did more harm than good. Another rather interesting observation, for me, was that Prequel has never really caught on in an RPG/Oblivion community. Sometimes a person will bring it up, they'll get maybe one or two replies like "hey this is cool but then I stopped reading", and then it'll fade away. By contrast, entire discussion threads frequently pop up in comic-focused communities. Maybe those proportions will shift over time, as the story gets longer and if Katia ever reaches Kvatch? It'll be interesting to see at what point, if any, the Oblivion-focused crowds start to become interested. Or, perhaps more usefully, if I can see if/when general fantasy communities take notice. Will all this information be useful in my future endeavors? Probably not, unless I do the exact same thing again. But I'm incredibly glad to have an opportunity to experiment with these things on a large crowd before using them in a "real" commercial project. It's not much different than having someone criticize your artwork before you put together a portfolio; even if your critic isn't the one who ultimately decides your portfolio's worth, you can learn your biggest strengths and weaknesses before putting a large investment into something. I wouldn't call my reactions "defensive", but I guess that's not my call. I like to talk about my observations and theories, probably a little too much and I should shut up before I ruin the magic. EvilKosh posted:Is this directed at me? Or is it directed at the author of this comic who compares himself to Hemingway? Seriously though, whenever someone really hates my work I try to figure out where they are coming from. I think I found your DeviantArt page, and you were apparently doing a commission drive? If that's still a thing you're doing, would you have an interest in advertising on my site? I've been planning to try out some new on-site advertising techniques I came up with, but I need some people offering products/services to help me kick it off. I don't care about payment or anything, I'd just want detailed statistical info on how it affects your commission quantities. The problem with Google Ads is that they give me no indication of what happens after people click on the ad, which is what I care about. EDIT: reply to the below: yeah, I've been watching that. The thing is, I'm curious how many people who go through the ads actually go on to make a purchase. It would tell me a lot more than the mere fact that they clicked a link, which could happen by accident. And thanks! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 3, 2011 06:27
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Kaz, have you tried looking around the google adsense page? There's a page that tracks how much you've made each day and over the month. I don't know about page ads, but I find my youtube ads make about 30 cents per click. Also, keep up the great work, looking forward to everything!
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Aug 3, 2011 06:35
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EvilKosh posted:As much as I'd like to talk about the lack of originality in fantasy it's really got nothing to do with what we're talking about here. Just because other people are unoriginal it doesn't excuse that this isn't a pathetic fan-fiction that is trying to gain an audience and display ads for the authors benefit. we get it, mr. grumpy pants
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Aug 3, 2011 10:55
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I usually only venture into BSS to look at the Buckley mock thread and it was by chance that I found this one. I guess the topic title was eye-catching or something.  I'm glad that I stumbled into the thread, because I just went through the whole thing and found it pretty amazing and can't wait until it gets updated again. 
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Aug 3, 2011 16:21
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Silentman0 posted:I just want to say that I didn't start playing Oblivion until after I started reading Prequel and enjoying the writing and characters. When I saw Quill-Weave walking around I quietly went "heh" to myself and went back to cutting up frost dwarves. You should follow her around a bit. All the NPCs have their own routines, remember. Twice a week she really does attend the Countess' dinner party, and once a month she wakes up early and starts on a two-day walk to Chorral, where she meets up with her special friend and they spend the week together. They sleep in the same bed.
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Aug 3, 2011 18:04
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Wait is that for real?
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Aug 3, 2011 18:21
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Funkz posted:Wait is that for real? Yep, that actually happens in the game, on a schedule. Some of the NPCs have pretty intricate procedures, though Quill-Weave's travel plans are more intricate than most. And I don't remember if it was actually intended by the designers to mean she is lesbian, but the whole "using the same bed" thing ended up making it a thing in the Oblivion community, which resulted in it becoming a thing in Prequel.
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Aug 3, 2011 19:10
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That just makes me wonder if there's a specific soldier patrolling in Oblivion that Asotil is meant to represent. Then again if he dies in the story and is replaced by some other patrolling legionnaire we wouldn't know.
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Aug 3, 2011 21:07
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