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I read this at work, actually enjoyed it a lot more than the actual game. The art is great and it's funny as hell. Couple things really bugged me, though, to the point where I didn't really bother to go back and read it past the point I left off: 1. The way he plays the sexuality. He has the character's clothes fall off every 10 panels and makes innuendos every 2 or 3, and then acts all superior and squicked out when the thread gets people saying "she's hot!! have her gently caress so-and-so!!" And then draws some more lizards in panties. YUP ALL PART OF THE STORY 2. 95% of the time, the character is really cute and likable and sympathetic, but then out of nowhere there's these super conservative/misogynistic shots. "If only you hadn't had too much to drink, you wouldn't be such a slut! You might even still be a virgin! It's your fault you got raped by an orc!" It's like holy poo poo dude. Slow your roll.
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Aug 1, 2011 01:19
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Phylodox posted:I kind of thought that was the character's self-loathing being expressed hyperbolically through internal monologue.  Zenzirouj posted:I see that as being more anti-alcoholic than misogyny, since she does things that are bad regardless of gender while drunk. Blacking out and having sex with a skeleton isn't really acceptable whether a man or woman. And I don't think that was rape or anything, just more of the aforementioned bad decisions. Still, I'm not really sure if we're supposed to take his voice as her own conscience or what. That's the way I've read it, anyway. It just feels like, to the author, she can either be a virgin or a whore. I mean, as Phylodox pointed out, the reliability of the narrator is kind of vague, and it's possible that all this stuff is representational of her own psychological hangups, and that she'll eventually learn that her own sex drive shouldn't be a source of shame. It's possible. It would be pretty impressive for a webcommic. But so far I don't think we've seen anything to suggest that's gonna happen. edit: also yeah unless the orc dude and necromancer dude were also drunk out of their minds (which isn't implied so far as I can see) they could be convicted of rape if they lived in America!
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Aug 1, 2011 01:50
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Phylodox posted:I got the impression that she was the narrator, or that the narrator was relaying her thoughts, not their own. I mean, one of the main themes of the story is how much of a failure she thinks she is and how much she hates herself. Oxxidation posted:Pretty much. The narration is basically first-person with the pronouns mixed up. Haledjian posted:I mean, as Phylodox pointed out, the reliability of the narrator is kind of vague, and it's possible that all this stuff is representational of her own psychological hangups, and that she'll eventually learn that her own sex drive shouldn't be a source of shame. It's possible. It would be pretty impressive for a webcommic. But so far I don't think we've seen anything to suggest that's gonna happen.
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Aug 1, 2011 02:28
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Phylodox posted:Do you mean "Oblivion fanfiction about a slutty alcoholic cat"? Fudge Handsome posted:This. I think it's a little early for this thread to degenerate into something like this. It's a fun silly comic about a catgirl learning magic and turning her life around and meeting people far stranger than her. It's a fun, silly comic that I really like but which every 25 pages punches me in the face with some really nasty poo poo. If it was just irredeemably awful like Cerebus or something I wouldn't even want to bother talking about it. Volmarias posted:- Webcomic on internet about some dude comes to a point where it is explicitly stated that the dude's male friend is gay. Audience response: "Oh, uh, well, good luck with that." 
Haledjian fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Aug 1, 2011 |
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Aug 1, 2011 04:54
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Cyrodil has yet to know the wonders of the air mattress.
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Aug 1, 2011 06:57
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Kazerad posted:a post. Speaking of control over the narrative, one of my favorite bits was how the magic fire started as a visual pun, then became a recurring gag, then an actual plot thread. Was that planned from the beginning or inspired by comments? Well played regardless!
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Aug 1, 2011 18:09
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The Worst Unicorn posted:Well I'll pop in too. You're copying Hussie's drawing and animating style and you're using Oblivion's characters and world setting. As for stealing from Oblivion, the game itself is hardly an exemplar of unique and original fantasy settings. It's got elves and orcs lifted wholesale from Tolkien, dudes in armor with swords, mages that cast spells, lizard people and furries that I'm pretty sure are plentiful in Dungeons and Dragons. It's a character-driven story much more than a plot-driven one, so he could easily change the names of the species and locations and it would work just as well. But if he's fishing for readers then why bother? Kazerad posted:I recognize your concerns but think you underestimate the power of a large readership. They are more than simply a number; they are a mass of individuals, each one with his or her own reason for reading. I watch where they come from, and analyze how these numbers fluctuate with every page that is posted. Whenever possible, I monitor reader opinions and how they differ from every corner of the internet. Themes emerge; people begin to fall into relatively distinct camps of why they read/don't read. It's valuable to recognize that the author-reader relationship goes both ways; if a single critic is valuable learning tool for an artist, a consensus is priceless. This type of thinking about fanbases is always interesting to me, especially in terms of trying to game the internet, which a lot of people who really want to haven't figured out how to do yet. I make rap songs. About a month ago I put one out about My Little Pony, as kind of a joke, and it quickly shot up to about 100,000 listens, between Youtube and Soundcloud. I was hoping people would stick around and listen to the less gimmicky stuff on my Soundcloud (I even tried to capitalize on it by including a "bonus track" in the pony song download), but for the most part that hasn't happened--my other songs are hovering in the mid-to-low hundreds. I did get somewhere between 50 and 100 subscribers off it, but most of them have pony avatars and I wouldn't be surprised to see them dropping off when they realize I'm not gonna make any more songs about their favorite cartoon. So, 3000 readers is pretty substantial, but there's usually a fanbase bell curve where the vast middle is occupied by people who don't really care that much. If you're going to try to get them to follow you anywhere I wouldn't count on more than 10% or so actually following through with it (although that 10% will inevitably be devoted as hell and probably spread your new poo poo around as much as they can). That said, your comic has pretty broad appeal, and the format you're using definitely promotes some personal investment in the product, so who knows! Internet popularity is crazy poo poo.
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Aug 2, 2011 15:37
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Horse is unfuckwittable. e - haha Kosh took his AIM name out his profile. Now he can threadshit with impunity! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 4, 2011 15:28
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I'd definitely call it a comic, especially since it's basically ditched the more game-like features that MSPA made use of, like the inventory system. It doesn't have a traditional panel layout but essentially yeah it's a comic with an audience-driven narrative.
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Aug 8, 2011 00:59
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Rasamune posted:I was wondering where my can opener went. Those poor worms are gonna suffocate in there.
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Aug 8, 2011 18:43
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Fair enough! But yeah I agree, I was really happy to see that in there (and well-incorporated too). Thanks Kazerad! I'm gonna imagine it was prompted at least in part by my post earlier in the thread and feel good.
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Aug 8, 2011 23:04
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Herpus Derpus posted:Dmitri's just going to be robbed of everything by gro-upp so he and Katia have something in common.
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Aug 25, 2011 02:23
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Kazerad 
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Sep 5, 2011 21:25
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Kazerad posted:There's always a lot of people who cry "railroading!" when I edge the story in a direction, but I think that's a misnomer. It's not "railroading" so much as a "no passing zone". There is plenty of opportunity to change lanes while the line is dashed, but if you don't get in the right lane by the time it turns solid, you miss your exit. Which isn't always a bad thing! Sometimes the wrong road leads to very neat places. Anyway, obviously it's sad to see Dmitri get merked, but I'm kind of mixed on it from a narrative standpoint. On the one hand, his arc feels really incomplete and kind of pointless now. On the other hand, it's definitely in keeping with the masochistic tendencies of the story so far. 
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Sep 5, 2011 23:48
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QueerPope posted:I honestly prefer it when MSPA-style stories just use the reader suggestions as jokes and for the most part control the story on their own. I like when the reader suggestions make funny things like "friendship diamond" but I like seeing what the author has in mind more than what the readers want to happen.
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Sep 8, 2011 06:07
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Well, that was eerily idyllic. I wonder where Gro-upp is.
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Sep 9, 2011 07:55
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SynthOrange posted:What's up with the clothing inconsistency? That robe thing keeps changing shape and coverage depending on zoom levels.
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Oct 3, 2011 23:05
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I don't know how to play the dance game 
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Oct 26, 2011 10:34
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Kazerad you are a sick man.
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Oct 27, 2011 17:48
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 This is the best thing.
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Dec 10, 2011 08:28
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Calling it now: Kazerad is going to have a successful line of plush toys for sale less than a year from now
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Dec 12, 2011 09:00
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Kazerad posted:As for the sex-negative thing, I know I've said it before but Katia's views do not necessarily reflect my own. But even then, I think "sex-negative" is a somewhat misleading label for her views. A lot of her statements border on outright slut-shaming, but at the same time she has only been shown applying them to herself. In a lot of ways you could compare it to a depressed, middle-aged accountant who looks back on his life and says "I could've been a musician". He clearly doesn't value accounting very much... but would it be right to tell him this belief was wrong, or construe this as an attack on accounting in general? That said, I think the ghost in the cave was the low point as far as that stuff is concerned and from Dmitri onward it's softened on that stuff. I dunno if that was intentional or not but I think it's an improvement!
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Dec 23, 2011 00:56
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Kazerad posted:It's part of the reason I misrepresent the comic in my descriptions: I want people to come up with their own description, not use mine. Nobody who has read it would seriously describe it as "slutty cat adventures", I think. The thing is that you're presenting the sex stuff in exactly the same context as the alcoholism, and the lack of useful skills, and the poor impulse control, and all these things that reasonable people would agree are character flaws. So "stop loving people so much" is subsumed into the character arc of "become a better person." Now, you can say that only represents Katia's view, and not yours, but unless you take steps within the narrative, not in forum posts, to communicate that Katia is wrong about this, then the comic is absolutely broadcasting a sex-negative and kinda sexist message that, statistically speaking, a majority of your readers will probably agree with. You say you don't want to get into these issues in the comic because you haven't researched them, but by making slut-shaming into one of the main recurring gags (no pun intended) of the comic, you really already have. Robo Pope posted:The ghost calls Katia a "Khajiit whore" which is obviously sexually negative and not an ancient ghost of an elf being racist about Khajiits at all. In line with what I mentioned above it's the third vector by which the same idea, Katia Needs To Stop Being A Slut, is transmitted, the first two being Katia's narration and Kazerad's descriptions of the comic on its webpages. Two of them come from flawed, unreliable characters and one is tongue-in-cheek, but they're still all reaffirming each other, and the only thing on the other side is Kazerad saying on SA "I don't really think that," which isn't going to do a whole lot to alleviate it. I'm a dude who hasn't even had to face these types of attitudes directed at me and those parts of the comic still make me uncomfortable, even AFTER reading Kazerad's take on it on SA. What with all the hits it's been getting, I'm sure there's at least hundreds if not thousands of female readers who don't have the privilege of having read this particular forum thread. How many of them are going to feel alienated by it? I can't really make a guess beyond "probably too many." And that number's gonna scale accordingly with increasing (and deserved) popularity of this comic. e - Yeah, what Dolash said, also. Haledjian fucked around with this message at 07:06 on Dec 23, 2011 |
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Dec 23, 2011 07:01
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prahanormal posted:Kazerad, your comments make me feel like you are unaware of the amount of porney fan-art Prequel has spawned, and if so I am so sorry for bringing it to your attention, but I'm pretty sure there is at least a few people who are reading the comic because they like the idea of a slutty catgirl loving everything. Just from the posts in the MSPA forums thread I'd say he probably has some idea. I actually remember him saying in this thread that he does exploit that audience to some extent, so 
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Dec 23, 2011 07:19
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Volmarias posted:you're all making arguments that sex is presented negatively because Katia feels negatively about loving everything that moves when she's sober (blackout drunk is a different story). If her rationale was explicitly (or even implicitly) "I'm not gonna have sex with people because I don't want to, and I have much more important things to focus on right now" that would be fine, and I don't think the story would suffer. But instead her rationale is "I need to stop being such a whore." The former would actually serve the narrative BETTER, I think, because it's in keeping with the theme of self-actualization and getting what one wants out of life. The latter is something she's doing for other people, to try and keep them from using bigoted slurs on her. It's hella different! P.S. I think the CHIM discussion is really boring, but you guys are welcome to have it! Haledjian fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Dec 23, 2011 |
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Dec 23, 2011 19:36
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Haha I have faith Kazerad can make anything funny. I laughed and was sad at the same time when Dmitri died, real talk. Point taken though, I like how the comic's been going and I don't want to hijack the thread or anything.
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Dec 25, 2011 07:09
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I just like how they seem to think they're not being blatantly obvious about it.
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Dec 29, 2011 19:19
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You should move in with us baby. Forget about those clowns.
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Dec 31, 2011 18:38
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 Aw.
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Jan 4, 2012 23:11
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I'm gonna count it as a victory if she just doesn't fall in the well.
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Jan 5, 2012 20:36
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Basically.
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Jan 5, 2012 20:42
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I think Hirtel is my new favorite character.
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Jan 21, 2012 11:59
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Is that one of Dmitri's cats.
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Jan 27, 2012 21:44
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Look, the kitten is already a more competent adventurer than Katia.
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Jan 28, 2012 05:44
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Grapplejack posted:oh god Katia is dead. She died.
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Jan 31, 2012 10:27
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Hey Sindow is that a panel from the strip? If not, where'd it come from?
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Feb 7, 2012 10:00
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Pollyanna posted:If it makes you feel better it's Katia being lovely to herself, not the creator trying to say something about it. But yeah the comic's invested a lot in slut shaming as comedy fodder at this point, it'd be pretty tough to turn that into any kind of a positive mention without weird tonal shifts
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Feb 11, 2012 07:46
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Yonic Symbolism posted:It's a real social problem, but I'm pretty sure it's just the readers problem for having lovely attitudes. If they use Katia's attitude - which has done nothing positive for Katia - to justify it, then they can't tell fiction from reality. And most of them don't because a lot of them are internet shut-ins who are more sympathetic to a mspaint cat girl than anyone in real life. It's been addressed before, and I think at this point the issue is "stop being a slut" is so ingrained as one of Katia's "self-improvement" bullet points. From what I remember Kazerad basically said that wasn't what he intended to convey but he doesn't think it's a big enough deal to address. For what it's worth though the comic's been a lot better about it since it was raised in this thread, which is awesome. Katia getting eaten by fish and licked by a vampire is a lot funnier than Katia getting raped. And yeah, hoping that the server's not in too much trouble.
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Feb 12, 2012 07:03
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For sure, it's just a fine distinction that a lot of people don't make at all. With the extent that Kazerad's participated in discussions about it thus far I'm hopeful he'll be a little more sensitive with that type of material in the future
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Feb 12, 2012 07:20
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Kazerad posted:I probably won't be getting much more sensitive about it. I've probably said this elsewhere in the thread, but I kind of like playing with fire. I personally think the slut-shaming is an important part of her character, and I've found a certain percentage of people really respect that I leave it in (rather than creating a character who is messed up in more socially acceptable ways). Also for what it's worth I think it's mitigated to a great degree by how sympathetic and likable you've made the character, so, you know, props for that  Kazerad posted:I think it's a mistake to single out the slut-shaming on its own, though. The way I see it, one of Katia's major character flaws is that she bases her entire self-opinion off the views of others: the smallest compliment overjoys her and harsh words devastate her because she takes them both as objective measures of he self-worth. As far as she's concerned, someone saying she's a worthless slut means she that's what is, and her character is presumably shaped by years of that. Kazerad posted:Personally I think the racism aspects are darker than the slut-shaming ones. It's easy to disregard when dealing with elves and cat people, but the way she casually drops terms like "hideous catlike fingers" or describes herself with words like "subhuman" shows a certain degree of racism against herself. While it's mostly used for humor like everything else, it plays into that whole somewhat saddening central theme that Katia has let everyone else's opinions shape who she is. Incidentally, I thought the "hideous catlike fingers" line was hilarious, but interestingly it's a good example of those situations where it can be tough to distinguish between character voice and author voice--I read it as you poking fun at the inherent ridiculousness of cat-people (and maybe at the portion of readers who like her a little too much yadadamean) rather than Katia being self-hating. Kazerad posted:I know you're mostly just concerned for any readers who will be alienated or upset by the undertones, but I don't think you have to worry about it. From my extensive reader-monitoring I get the impression that most people do make that connection that it's an aspect of her character. A kind of unsettling one, but some people like that. Good luck getting the site back online! Haledjian fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Feb 12, 2012 |
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Feb 12, 2012 23:07
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