Prequel: Let's All Make a Catgirl Cry

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Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Oh hey, it's the Kaz. Love your work on the MSPA forums, man. I poked around a bit for the Nestbound stuff (my art never got any better) and am really enjoying Prequel - why, I mistook you for an actual cat writing from your personal experience with racist feline puns.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2011 13:14

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 03:03

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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This thread's got some sharp elbows. We should find our footing when there's another update to talk about. I'm curious to see how Katia handles the mudcrabs - is she capable of crab-murder, or will their adorable crabby faces stay her hand?

# ¿ Aug 2, 2011 10:58

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Ugh I don't want to continue this discussion but can we save "manipulative and ethically bankrupt" for something other than a webcomic? Maybe it's good to discuss these topics but it's not going to be easy to ratchet down to mudcrab-chat once the tone of discussion becomes "is this comic creatively and ethically void?"

# ¿ Aug 2, 2011 11:50

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Oblivion spoilers:I'm looking forward to seeing what a not-devastated Kvatch looks like. It might even be sad to see nice people or people Katia befriends there, since they probably bite it when the whole Oblivion thing happens. On the other hand at least we'll know any jerks she meets will get their comeuppance.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2011 21:19

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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That just makes me wonder if there's a specific soldier patrolling in Oblivion that Asotil is meant to represent. Then again if he dies in the story and is replaced by some other patrolling legionnaire we wouldn't know.

# ¿ Aug 3, 2011 21:07

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Oh wow, will you look at the angry eyebrows on that horse!

# ¿ Aug 4, 2011 14:21

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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I looked into the background of this game series a little and apparently there's like more than a dozen types of Khajit (probably to account for the wildly varying balance between cat and person from game to game), so what kind is Katia supposed to be exactly?

# ¿ Aug 6, 2011 18:01

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Man, I hadn't checked back in a couple days and this Necromancer stuff is pretty great. Expanding our little circle of characters and subplots is a great way to start building up the story.

Also there's no way that guy doesn't have a cat thing. He's probably just your average nerdy wizard type (a nerdcromancer, if you will) and thought he'd won the lottery when a drunk cat-girl threw herself at him. It's rather positive to see him feeling guilty after once he's had time to think about it, I wasn't expecting that at all.

edit: Should... cats be eating hearts?

Dolash fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Aug 9, 2011

# ¿ Aug 9, 2011 14:50

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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I like the stylized cartoon people, it gives everyone a sort of distinctiveness.

Oh, and I am stealing "take a potion of chill" so hard for my own use. It's the sort of almost-obvious jokey pun that I've never heard yet instantly wondered how I'd never thought of it.

Also I'm glad we're getting a second protagonist - even if we don't see much of him, or not for long, it provides a lot of variety to move the perspective around like this.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2011 02:06

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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drscience posted:

So... um...

I'm not very knowledgeable on necromancer combat abilities. What exactly can Dmitri do to get out of this situation?

Absolutely nothing. He's going to die right now. This whole interlude has been to inject some more misery and tragedy into Katia's circumstances (this time making use of dramatic irony, since Katia wouldn't even know it was happening) by robbing Katia of the opportunity to make a friend or at least receive a gift.

I could believe that's the case since we haven't seen Katia get miserably crushed in a little and her current circumstances offer few chances for said misery.

# ¿ Aug 24, 2011 17:45

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Calling it now. He's going to take the ring and wear it. Then later Katia is going to encounter him again and try to throw a fireball at him, which will fail because of his newfound fire-resistance ring.

She will then cry about whatever Grow-Up does next.

Edit: Actually, looking back all three things he considered as gifts were things Grow-Up could use to get around Katia's new magic powers - a wand of silence, an amulet of spell reflection, and a ring of fire resistance. This whole scene has been an unavoidable conveyance for the manner in which Grow-Up will next best Katia.

Well, it's also been a way to introduce us to a new character and show us cute kittens, but choice-wise this is the thing we've been influencing. I suppose the ring is the least damaging choice since Katia could get around it by learning a non-fire combat spell, but I'm willing to bet we specifically won't be able to convince her to do so (or she won't be able to at all) between now and when we next see Grow-Up.

Dolash fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Aug 26, 2011

# ¿ Aug 26, 2011 18:17

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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The implications would be pretty amusing if it took out Kazerad's power and internet like Irene did.

I just realized that both of the characters (alive) in this room have slept with Katia. I wonder how they'd react to figuring out this common link?

# ¿ Aug 30, 2011 18:08

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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They'll almost certainly cross paths again just because it's good to reuse characters, and Gro-Upp appears to be becoming a sort of representation of misery to those we sympathize with in the comic. His incredible luck contrasts well with the terrible luck of Katia (and now Dmitri, I guess), underlying the basic premise of the comic - bad things happening to good people.

I've been trying to work out if the name "Grow Up" is meant to hold some clever meaning, like he's a representation of the challenges of maturity or something. Or it could just be a clever name.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2011 21:08

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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That's worth minor pun points, but I'll hold out to see if - now given this silly name - Kazerad can find a later, more clever use for it.

# ¿ Aug 30, 2011 21:43

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Update

Surprise! Gro-Upp got his hands on the letter! Wait that is not a surprise. There is nothing those abs don't hide.

So he says he'll have to go to Anvil, Chorrol, or Skingrad, which means either that Katia is going to one of those places in the future or that Gro-Upp will soon receive reason to go to Kvatch.

Gonna bet a popular submission will be for Dmitri to request that the scross he leave behind be the letter for Katia. If so, there's a chance Gro-Upp might read it. That's about it for guesses about what might happen at this point, although the odds of Dmitri dying at this point are pretty much zero.

# ¿ Sep 3, 2011 12:13

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Called it.

Our tragedy quotient was bottoming out. Now we feel sad about two people - Dmitri, who we were growing to like, and Katia, who missed an opportunity for something positive to happen in her life without even knowing the opportunity was there. That's dramatic irony, son.

Unless he comes back to life, or is reanimated in some necromancy way, or something. If it were up to me this wouldn't happen, but this is a stark enough turn that we may just be soaking in the shock before next update turns it around.

*edit* Kazerad has made comments to the effect that yep, he's following user requests on this one and Dmitri's dead. Of course if you want to get desperate he could just be extending the charade, but I think it's safe to say Dmitri's dead for real until we see something else.

Dolash fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Sep 5, 2011

# ¿ Sep 5, 2011 15:22

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Zereth posted:

By which you mean "do 30% less fire damage", right? And given his displayed level of competence, which is much higher than a mudcrab, I don't think she can cast enough lovely fire spells even without the ring.

I don't think you've worked out how this universe works yet.

That 30% will be the difference between her winning and losing, specifically to ensure maximum misery. Or if it isn't, it'll be remarked upon about how much it isn't while she fails for some other really obvious or painful reason.

EvanSchenk posted:

To me it seems more as though the point was to give gro-Upp an item that would make it impossible for Katia to even harm him, so she can fail again and feel bad about herself. If he's railroading anything, it would be that. I think somebody already pointed out that all the items Dmitri could have gifted would have been useful for gro-Upp to rob Katia again without risking damage from her fireballs.

I was one such pointing person, although I didn't have an inkling that was what we were doing until Gro-Upp made the scene.

I think I'll further speculate that Katia won't learn any non-fire attack spells between now and when she meets Gro-Upp, to ensure that the fire resistance ring is enough to give him the edge.

Kazerad may try to do something else to avoid giving the readers what they expect, but if it's some other sort of workaround it'll probably seem like an intentional, possibly forced dodge.

Dolash fucked around with this message at 07:15 on Sep 6, 2011

# ¿ Sep 6, 2011 07:12

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Kind of hoping Kazerad just rolls with the misery train and never lets a positive upturn not go overturned at some point. End with an unavoidable bad end where Katia joins that cult and gets killed by the Oblivion PC in the start of Oblivion (that PC being Gro-Upp).

Setting up these sympathetic, sad scenarios just to make everything start turning around at some point seems kind of overdone. Prequel is about the misery, and changing that later would be a disappointment.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2011 05:23

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Pretty sure Asotil himself will be okay, if only because he's not unambiguously good for Katia - they merely align at the moment, and Katia is misreading this as something nice like friendship.

My bet is she'll do something wrong (or be framed) in the future that causes Asotil to turn on her without a second thought, underlining how he was quite clearly a psychopath all along and we were clearly warned about his crook-killing predilictions. Katia will feel betrayed, then later cry. Kind of like the Gro-Upp situation, but with a longer fuse.

Oh, but that panel of Asotil busting himself into a prison with a bag marked 'drugs' is just too dear. I can't stay mad at you, Prequel.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2011 04:49

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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I want to say I'm surprised at how well she's riding those corpses, but then again we already know she slept with a skeleton! zing

# ¿ Sep 20, 2011 18:43

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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To get things back on to Prequel, I will say that one of the challenges, as I see it (maybe not for Kaz) is that the story feels both like it could have a central plot arc with character development or plod along with short arcs (like Dmitri) and individual encounters that don't really build to anything. The format sort of favours the second, but the characters and premise favours the first.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2011 03:03

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Looks like someone has set a cooking fire just outside of Kvatch!

And that's obviously all it could be and not the start of a hideous demon incursion.

# ¿ Oct 2, 2011 20:47

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Yeah flash-wise the timing is hilarious(ly bad).

But on the other hand this was incredibly fun and funny, so I'm really glad it did come out. Now for Katia to make loads of new friends and get involved in lots of plots and stories with these Kvatch people so they can all die when the town burns down, thus erasing Katia's connections to the world just in time to get jailed for the start of Oblivion.

Dolash fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Oct 25, 2011

# ¿ Oct 25, 2011 19:15

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Boy, I really hope (Oblivion spoilers)the Norse dance instructor makes it out okay when Kvatch burns. He was pretty okay. The old Redguard guy too. Even the count seemed okay, Katia just didn't want to share a screen with him.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2011 03:42

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Zereth posted:

Oh no, a comic based on a game where you wander around cities poking into everybody's stuff and talking to them had a flash where the main character wanders around a city talking to everybody and poking into their stuff.

Frankly I'm more concerned that the "Katia is bad at things and has horrible luck" thing is going to be driven into the ground and turn things into basically misery porn.

Case in Point: The necromancer whose name I have already forgotten because he only existed to hand some magic items to Gro-Upp and die.

I admit, that whole bit did feel a little like "we can't have anything go wrong for Katia directly right now, so let's have some off-screen indirect misery just to change things up."

Maybe it's not supposed to feel like that, maybe it has some other meaning, but what's important is that as a reader that's what it felt like.

That's not necessarily a bad thing of course. This thread is titled "Let's all make a Catgirl Cry" for a reason. I just agree that at times elements feel like they're sad for the sake of keeping up the sad quotient.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2011 23:59

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Awwww, she marked the arena as "never again!" in her map. And here I was hoping for more Dancing Nord.

# ¿ Oct 30, 2011 06:49

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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This has the making of the world's most uncomfortable "Let Me Google That For You".

Angry Guacamole posted:

I have, and I'm starting to really see this being the case. I'm playing Katia's descendant, also coincidentally named Katia, when I get Skyrim, regardless of the actual outcome of the story.

Not sure why we're still spoilered, but, if we're embracing 'no matter what canon says'... make it a black cat.

# ¿ Nov 1, 2011 04:04

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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IronSaber posted:

Katia is a courier now, huh? This is starting to remind me of New Vegas.

Patrolling Kvatch almost makes me wish for a Daedric incursion.

Not sure how much money Katia has on her (if any?), maybe the bookstore owner will accept her price if she says it's all she has on her. Still, a lot of work went into Kvatch and it's one of the few places Kazerad has full freedom to explore without touching on Oblivion's main plot, so I expect we'll be here for a while.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2011 14:19

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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A thought.

We've all been talking about whether "Prequel" is a prequel to Oblivion in some sense, such as Katia becoming the protagonist and going to Imperial jail, or joining the cult that attacks at the start of the game.

But what if it's actually a prequel to Skyrim, and this is the story of the ancestor of the Dragonborn? :catdrugs:

# ¿ Nov 13, 2011 07:17

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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This is The Most Understandable Hiatus. I've got far more important things than a webcomic that I've been procrastinating on because of Viking Simulator 2011.

I do wonder what sort of character Kaz is play as, though. Will all of his Skyrim playing affect the creative process of making the comic? Flash-forwards to Katia's great-great-granddaughter as she stumbles through the snow, trying not to be executed?

Actually a Dmitri-esque interlude where we get to see Katia's descendent and it ends on her getting tragically butchered could have a very similar narrative impact as Dmitri did - something that Katia wasn't even aware of but still makes us sad for her. Then again it might be a little too sad. Or not?

# ¿ Nov 20, 2011 21:09

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Possibly, but the only things Dmitri's scene added were things that could've been assumed off-screen (that Gro-Upp got a fire-resistance ring somewhere, for example). The real narrative purpose was to keep the tone of the comic gloomy at a time where Katia wasn't having anything sad happening to her personally. Not that the comic is all that gloomy, there's plenty of comedy, but the backdrop seems to require a steady supply of sad events.

As such, only the faintest excuse would be needed to justify the flash-forward, like maybe injecting some of the Dragon-born mystery into Katia's life (was her descendent the dragon-born?), or showing the descendent with some heirloom in her possession that Katia doesn't have yet (is it valuable? Will it be of use to Katia in some important capacity?). The scene could then work immediately as a mood dampener and long-term as an introduction to an incidental plot thread.

He couldn't do it right away though, since we just finished with Dmitri and that gloom hasn't worn off just yet. Which is a pity, because "Skyrim just came out! Here's a Skyrim interlude!" Would also work well as a way to initially justify the cutaway until the larger purpose/mystery is put forward.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2011 21:24

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Friend of mine just sent me a piece of Prequel fan art he found online which made me laugh:

I can't blame Kaz, Skyrim's been keeping me from a lot more important stuff than webcomics.

EDIT: And now I must eat my words/funny image, update!

Dolash fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Nov 27, 2011

# ¿ Nov 27, 2011 02:40

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Sindow posted:

Hello I made these for easier story reading and thought you would enjoy them

http://nothotbutspicy.com/pa/

Not joking, package up that formatting and offer it to people who make comics as an easy-to-use bundle because it is great and I wish more comics came in that viewing format. It's probably going to get me to reread Prequel just on the novelty alone. Good work.

# ¿ Nov 28, 2011 03:52

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Psh, if she'd listened to her subconscious more often she wouldn't be in this mess!

Actually on reflection it's probably been roughly 50/50 between "disasters caused by subconscious suggestions" and "disasters caused by pointedly ignoring subconscious suggestions". New statistic counters, please.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2011 00:39

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Why is it that 90% of the people Katia meets are sarcastic assholes who hate her on sight? She needs to meet more patient, salt-of-the-earth types, or at least people less inclined to lay in with the verbal gut-punches whenever convenient.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2011 18:05

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Even the nervous guard had an underlying "You're kinda garbage, sorry" attitude, and I don't think Ghro-Upp can really be counted. The Imperial guard and Quill Weave are exceptions, yeah, but their reaction to her (that is, not disgust) is so markedly different from everyone else that they stand out and she thinks of them as friends just for that.

She did meet people who seemed nice in the Kvatch walk-around, but I guess it was narratively safer then since they were inconsequential mini-interactions as part of a game thing. It's a central conceit of the comic that Katia can't run into too many people who don't sass her or put her down in some way in order to keep up appearances.

# ¿ Dec 9, 2011 18:38

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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I assumed the sex-negativity didn't have much to do with Katia's own views on sex, more that it only really comes up in the story as a way for the main character to suffer more shame, misery, and personal failure - nobody's going to think what happened with Ghro-Upp or Dmitri were good times. That plus her apparently miserable past, alcohol addiction, and supposed former cult membership all sort of imply sex only exists as a danger for Katia to avoid, and one the readers must try to shepherd her away from with their suggestions. It's another bad thing that can happen to her, with no chance of being a good thing, which I guess is what might cause people to see a story as casting sex itself in a negative light.

Then again it's not really the focus of the story and likely to promote nasty derails, not to mention that sometimes bad things just plain happen to characters and it isn't meant to be any higher commentary than that.

Dolash fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Dec 21, 2011

# ¿ Dec 21, 2011 08:50

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Yeah for some reason people are really bad at explaining it. It's just some lore stuff from some Elder Scrolls games that explains the powers of the player character. It's a 4th-wall-breaking meta-element that explains players as being those characters who can realize that they are in a video game but not cease to exist. By its own definition, Katia is basically a CHIM character - even though she appears unaware of us, the 'reality' is that the character of Katia is really a cypher used by the actual character (Kazerad) to interact with the world of the story.

Kind of silly and pointless, but it's sometimes actually used for stuff in the setting. Some characters are actually masters of CHIM.

# ¿ Dec 22, 2011 06:27

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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The ghost scene was more a low point of Katia being treated like poo poo (and very nearly killed, actually).

Also I suppose it's worth noting again that sex-negativity doesn't come directly from there being characters who are bigoted and judgemental, more the overall climate created by the story where sex is just a source of suffering for the main character and she only runs into people that make her feel like crap for it. Even if it isn't the authour's intent, the story itself gives off the impression that the message is "Sex is bad, and sexuality is for those who lose control and will only hurt them".

I know it's safer played off as a joke rather than seriously contemplated (nothing would make the readers sidle away more uncomfortably than their video game humour protagonist seeking therapy for a lifetime of sexual exploitation and date rape over their substance abuse), but since so much of the story's emotional content is wrapped up in how terrible Katia's life is and how much she wants to improve it, her sex life has sort of become part of it. If her improving her life means not having sex, the message is sex is a negative thing.

Dolash fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Dec 23, 2011

# ¿ Dec 23, 2011 06:39

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# ¿ May 16, 2024 03:03

Dolash: Oct 23, 2008; aNYWAY,
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Yeah, getting really tired of the background hum of "hey listen if I phrase this right will you do [thing you always refuse to do]?" Acknowledging it in the comic with her reactions isn't even helping, it's like turning it into a dialogue where people come back with new responses rather than it being the final word of the character/authour.

Time to get in that well and find some opportunity. And just in time to save Kvatch! Fancy that.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2011 00:08

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