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Haledjian posted:I don't think it's a degeneration, as long as people post respectfully & in good faith. I agree! These are really interesting opinions I haven't seen pop up elsewhere online. I want to throw in my two cents though: Like a few others have already said, the narration is intended to be from Katia's point of view. There is a lot of subtext in what she says, and it is intentional. It does not necessarily represent my views. Among other things, Katia is definitely somewhat misogynistic. She's someone who has been called a worthless whore so often that she has accepted it as truth. She, her goals, and the demeaning language she uses to describe herself have all been shaped by years of people speaking down to her. Her comments about sexuality are also in her voice, not mine. A recurring aspect to her character is that - despite her promiscuity - she never talks positively about her sexual experiences (or sexuality in general). Take the following line for example: quote:Without the nightmares [...] You never would have become an alcoholic. You wouldn’t have to live off other peoples’ charity. You’d probably still be a virgin, too. As for the places where I called the story "slutcat adventures" or described it as "oblivion fanfiction about a slutty alcoholic cat", that was partly in jest and partly as a tactical move. I admit I try to misrepresent the story when describing it. Depression/alcoholism are relatively mature topics to handle, and if readers enter the story expecting me to handle those tactfully, they're probably going to be disappointed and a little offended. When they go in expecting Slutcat Adventures, their preconceptions are exactly what I want them to be. I've found that if you can set a low expectation from the get-go, exceeding it is easy. Anyway, hopefully that clears some things up. I can definitely understand why you would assume Katia's voice was my own. I mean, I've read books where I thought "wow, this author is great at writing from a highschooler's perspective" before checking out their other work and realizing they just wrote like a lovely highschooler. The best I can say is to rest assured that I recognize and have control over the subtext in my characters' statements. At the very least, rest assured that I am not a horrible person! (though Katia may be?) Haledjian posted:Oh yeah I'm not saying some of those guys aren't awful. I do think the author is leading them on a little more than he admits though. eg "Can I stay at your house?" "Well okay but we will have to sleep together because there is one bed and for some reason you can't sleep on the floor. Also I normally sleep in my underwear, which I will do again now even though you are sleeping in the bed next to me and for some reason I can't make an exception." "Ok!" "PS I'm gay" I've been commended before for mimicing MSPA's "sprit", and I think big part of that is trolling readers. If you can lead them on and then piss them off, they like your story more for some reason. At least MSPA people do. EvilKosh posted:Toss some ponies and Portal references into this. If you're going to attempt to make the dumbest thing ever created you might as well go the distance. I do admit I try to take the worst ideas and make them work anyway. If I succeed, it means I win. I might try pony/portal crossover fanfiction next, I'm not sure. Volmarias posted:OTOH we're seriously analyzing the motives of a loving webcomic pandering to the worst of internet nerds. And yeah, I read pretty much every Prequel discussion on the internet.
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Aug 1, 2011 09:33
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Tardstar posted:Wow, what's your problem? Radio Paranoia posted:Thanks for dropping in, Kazerad. It's always great to hear an author respond to people's criticism/praise of their work, plus it's even better if they can fit in and make the thread fun! In particular, it's neat reading the assumptions people make about me. Apparently, a lot of people assume I am female from my writing? At least one person genuinely thought I was a recovering alcoholic writing from experience (!!!). The common assumption seems to be that I'm putting more of myself into these characters than I actually am. I guess if people think I'm writing from experience, it's kind of an unintentional compliment? Kazerad fucked around with this message at 12:15 on Aug 1, 2011 |
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Aug 1, 2011 12:02
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idonotlikepeas posted:Also, Kaz, welcome to Something Awful. You may wish to check out a few other threads if you have the time: Dolash posted:Oh hey, it's the Kaz. Love your work on the MSPA forums, man. I poked around a bit for the Nestbound stuff (my art never got any better) and am really enjoying Prequel - why, I mistook you for an actual cat writing from your personal experience with racist feline puns. ShineDog posted:Thi is my default question when i see people putting lots of effort into fan work, but whatever. You obviously have some measure of writing talent here, so why a fanwork? Sure, its a guarantee of readership, but I can't help but feel you're wasting potential by riffing off of other peoples work so much. Like you said, the biggest advantage is a guarantee of readership. When you write fanfiction, you automatically get some readers from the thing you're "riffing off", and it also makes you a lot more likely to get further readers from that fandom. A lot of beginning writers don't understand this; they write heartfelt and entirely original material and then wonder why nobody notices it. Fans don't just appear out of nowhere; you have to acquire them. Fanfiction is a fairly easy way of doing so. That said, it's rarely a "sustainable" writing career, and it definitely has disadvantages. For instance, I can't legally sell merchandise or compilations or anything, at least pertaining to Bethesda's characters. But as a temporary move, it is incredibly advantageous. If I moved on to an original project after Prequel, I'd likely take my 3000+ readers with me. To be honest, what I'm doing right now is basically the authorial equivalent of powergaming. I'm writing MSPA/Oblivion fanfiction that makes sense without having read MSPA or played Oblivion. This means I get a pretty big stipend of MSPA and Elder Scrolls fans without really driving anyone away. I also get a steady stream of furries, and do so without driving the 4chan people away (since apparently Khajiit is not furry to them). So while I am doing a fanwork, I'm doing it very efficiently, have made an effort to bring my own flair to it, and have mostly mitigated the drawbacks. It's been a fun opportunity for me to experiment with tactical techniques like this. Haledjian posted:Speaking of control over the narrative, one of my favorite bits was how the magic fire started as a visual pun, then became a recurring gag, then an actual plot thread. Was that planned from the beginning or inspired by comments? Well played regardless! Zenzirouj posted:Huh. Kazerad showing up in the thread wasn't something I anticipated. Well, I guess I'll pull a flip-flop and post a little criticism that I didn't really feel the need to make an MSPA account for: I feel like we're not seeing enough of Katia's personality, specifically what she's like when she's drunk. Right now all we get are her taking a drink, a blackout, then her waking up. This is good for comedy purposes along the lines of "oh, look at this strange situation you've woken up in you little scamp!" But as a result, we basically only see her when she's a quivering neurotic mess trying to make up for mistakes we never saw. So our view of Katia is skewed heavily towards her sober side, in which she's nice and helpful but has a string of bad luck. But for Quill-Weave and other characters, the other half is when she's drunk and trashing a house. So when those characters react accordingly, the audience can't help but feel like Katia always deserves a second chance when maybe she actually doesn't. I think it's important to see her fail in a way that's not adorable and unintentional. I admit I'm probably not going to show Katia while she's drunk, at least any time soon (and definitely not from her point of view). The biggest factor here is just that I'm a huge fan of half-told stories. Think along the lines of Hemmingway's famous six-word piece: "For sale: baby shoes, never worn.". Not only does it tempt readers to fill in the blanks on their own, but the very lack of details says something about the narrator character and his/her attitude about the situation. Slutcat Adventures isn't exactly Hemmingway, I'm aiming to operate off the same basic principles. From what other characters say, you can make pretty accurate inferences about what Katia did/how she acted. The fact that she rarely pursues these details on her own says more about her character than I could by actually showing the events. (Though of course, an advantage of this writing medium is that if enough people seem to share your opinion, I can just show Katia drunk and pretend it was planned all along. I mean, if I can fit it smoothly in without breaking anything else.) EvilKosh posted:It's just that this comic is bankrupt of any sort of creativity or value. That's all. Kazerad fucked around with this message at 07:41 on Aug 2, 2011 |
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Aug 2, 2011 07:25
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The Worst Unicorn posted:Well I'll pop in too. You're copying Hussie's drawing and animating style and you're using Oblivion's characters and world setting. You said it yourself you've efficiently gathered fans from elsewhere, but you haven't, really. Hussie and Bethesda did all of that work for you. Creativity is what you use to try and create an original thing, and that wasn't even on your agenda it seems like. :/ There's more to making something than internet readership. Don't get me wrong; I'm not speaking against originality. I do, however, think it is harmful to believe that more originality is necessarily better. Originality is a very powerful but potentially dangerous tool in any creator's repertoire. By definition, it's an avoidance of existing ideas. When people view this as something they need to maximize, it leads to nonconformism for the sake of nonconformism. Sometimes, existing ideas (or aspects of them) simply work well for your purposes and you should use them. No points are awarded for reinventing the wheel. In fact, it's worth noting that when something is praised for its originality/creativity, it's rarely based on the quantity of originality, but instead its placement. To use an overused video game example, Portal was often lauded as being "original", despite the fact it used conventional FPS controls, Valve's existing source engine, and the setting from Half Life 2. Or as another example, while I'm hardly a Brony I respect Lauren Faust's creativity in extracting a surprisingly coherent pony society from a line of Hasbro toys. These are both examples of very small quantities of originality intelligently placed in existing frameworks. I'm using Andrew Hussie's style and Bethesda's setting, but I would argue that I am introducing unique aspects as well. Anyone who has played Oblivion or read MSPA can attest that my story is a lot different from either. The originality is there, somewhere in the middle, not readily overt but perhaps made stronger by its unusual context. It's definitely not everyone's thing, but it seems to work out okay. I'm all for the intelligent application of originality, but given my present goals I don't think Prequel's setting and art style are the right place for it. Reiley posted:Der-Shing Helmer did a lot of Avatar fanwork before moving on to original creative ventures, but I think it was the actual creative essence of The Meek that really drew people to what she's doing. Are there any other success stories this actually worked for? Building an audience takes time. It takes years and years of working in obscurity before you build a strong enough product to stand on its own two legs and people take notice, and then people accuse you of "coming out of nowhere". You're clearly creative but you're making huge, dangerous assumptions and get-reader-quick reasons for your choices, and I can almost certainly say when you stop feeding them the name-brand sauce that brought them in they're not guaranteed to stick around. I recognize your concerns but think you underestimate the power of a large readership. They are more than simply a number; they are a mass of individuals, each one with his or her own reason for reading. I watch where they come from, and analyze how these numbers fluctuate with every page that is posted. Whenever possible, I monitor reader opinions and how they differ from every corner of the internet. Themes emerge; people begin to fall into relatively distinct camps of why they read/don't read. It's valuable to recognize that the author-reader relationship goes both ways; if a single critic is valuable learning tool for an artist, a consensus is priceless. When the time comes to move on to my next project, I'll probably lose some readers, yeah. But I also suspect that by then I'll know enough about their motivations that I'll be able to draw most of them along with me. Even if I lost every single one or did my next project under a new identity, I think I've learned enough from my current batch that I'd be able to hit similar readership numbers in a month or two. tl;dr version: I agree it's dangerous, but I think the payoff is worth it. edit: Look at me, I'm talking about statistical analysis and creativity theory when I should be making a catgirl cry. I blame all of you for delaying the update by being interesting. Kazerad fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Aug 2, 2011 |
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Aug 2, 2011 10:31
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My favorite mudcrabs are the ones I can just copy and paste every time I need to show them. SirSamVimes posted:In all seriousness though, great to have you here. How far have you planned ahead? I don't want details of course, just curious about how much of the storyline you have in mind, and how much you're willing to railroad if you have to. Your question really depends on your definition of railroading. One of the major things I'm trying to build into the "gameplay" is a time delay between cause and effect. The best example is when Katia got robbed on the highway. People called that railroading because none of their escape plans worked, while in actuality the "time to prevent it" would have been if Katia had told Quill-Weave about the money Gharug left. The result was locked before they ever knew they caused it. I know a few different ways things can pan out, and even if people never realize they have control, they are driving the outcomes. Reiley posted:However, I will strongly advise against telling people the reasons you're using fanwork to build an audience like you have in this tread, since your reasons provided all sound manipulative and ethically bankrupt. Captain Oblivious posted:If the terms manipulative and ethically bankrupt are terms you feel comfortable throwing around with something as trivial as "gauging audience areas of interest and how to engage them" then I...I think you might want to get out in the real world. The Worst Unicorn posted:Well. . . yeah, I guess doing something original is 'dangerous' in the sense that not everyone will like it. But that's it. In a lot of ways, this is an experiment for me in operating on multiple levels at once. There are people who liked the story because it was TES-related, there's people who liked the story because it was MSPA-styled, and there's people who liked the story without even knowing what TES and MSPA were. Would there really be something more "pure" about the story had I exclusively targetted that latter group, who undeniably appreciate it as an independent work? I guess that's a matter of opinion. The Worst Unicorn posted:All said I do appreciate that you came here for discussion, Kazerad. I'm not meaning to argue for you to turn the direction of Prequel around or anything, it just got me thinking. Kazerad fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Aug 17, 2011 |
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Aug 2, 2011 22:31
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100 HOGS AGREE posted:So, Kaz, what's the update schedule you're trying to maintain, or is it just "when the gently caress ever i feel like updating" Tubgirl Cosplay posted:So what market insights have you gained from deliberately targeting your little social experiment at people who value its referentiality towards other media over your own input, in a way that can never be monetized? That there's an overlap between video game fans, webcomic fans, and furries? That if you don't try you can never fail? You seem to have gone out of your way to target these very specific groups that you act sorta contemptuous of, what does the overt MSPA derivation or setting everything in Literally Oblivion™ gain you specifically that couldn't be achieved better otherwise, if the ultimate goal was to produce non-fan work? What insights have I gained? When I'm all done with this I'll probably write a long retrospective (with graphs and poo poo) about my experiences for anyone who is curious, but there are a few highlights. For one, I got to see the comparative effects of different advertising methods first-hand. Reddit had a much larger effect on my readership than I thought it would, as did word-of-mouth advertising (which seems to account for somewhere between 5 and 25%). I was also rather surprised that among readers who never heard of MSPA, I have seen nobody who was bothered by the blatant copy-pasting and jarring shifts in art style. In fact most of them seemed to like the shifts in art style, making me feel as though maybe my attempts in the past to abide by wholly consistent art styles for my projects did more harm than good. Another rather interesting observation, for me, was that Prequel has never really caught on in an RPG/Oblivion community. Sometimes a person will bring it up, they'll get maybe one or two replies like "hey this is cool but then I stopped reading", and then it'll fade away. By contrast, entire discussion threads frequently pop up in comic-focused communities. Maybe those proportions will shift over time, as the story gets longer and if Katia ever reaches Kvatch? It'll be interesting to see at what point, if any, the Oblivion-focused crowds start to become interested. Or, perhaps more usefully, if I can see if/when general fantasy communities take notice. Will all this information be useful in my future endeavors? Probably not, unless I do the exact same thing again. But I'm incredibly glad to have an opportunity to experiment with these things on a large crowd before using them in a "real" commercial project. It's not much different than having someone criticize your artwork before you put together a portfolio; even if your critic isn't the one who ultimately decides your portfolio's worth, you can learn your biggest strengths and weaknesses before putting a large investment into something. I wouldn't call my reactions "defensive", but I guess that's not my call. I like to talk about my observations and theories, probably a little too much and I should shut up before I ruin the magic. EvilKosh posted:Is this directed at me? Or is it directed at the author of this comic who compares himself to Hemingway? Seriously though, whenever someone really hates my work I try to figure out where they are coming from. I think I found your DeviantArt page, and you were apparently doing a commission drive? If that's still a thing you're doing, would you have an interest in advertising on my site? I've been planning to try out some new on-site advertising techniques I came up with, but I need some people offering products/services to help me kick it off. I don't care about payment or anything, I'd just want detailed statistical info on how it affects your commission quantities. The problem with Google Ads is that they give me no indication of what happens after people click on the ad, which is what I care about. EDIT: reply to the below: yeah, I've been watching that. The thing is, I'm curious how many people who go through the ads actually go on to make a purchase. It would tell me a lot more than the mere fact that they clicked a link, which could happen by accident. And thanks! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 3, 2011 06:27
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I'm probably gonna try smaller updates for a little while, see how it works out. EvilKosh posted:I just want to know why someone says something bad about their comic in an Internet thread and they go and start googling people. My DA account isn't THAT hard to find, but the fact that Kaderaz went out of their way to track me down is really kind of weird. I try to always take criticism into account, but it helps to weight the criticism based on its source. That is to say, when someone is really hating on your stuff it helps to identify whether they are a trained professional or, like, a twelve year old with incredibly important opinions. When I discovered you did a lot of great fanwork yourself and were raising money by drawing other people's characters, some of your earlier criticisms about me trying to capitalize off the work of others admittedly sounded a little jealous in retrospect. So I figured I'd offer you some of my dudes, just in case you needed them. Apologies for the detectiving, no malice was intended. Hopefully that answers your question! Humboldt squid posted:I kinda wonder if this can really be called a comic though, it has images in sequence that tell a story, so I guess Scott McCloud would call it one, but to me it really seems like something more along the lines of an illustrated D&D campaign, with the audience being the player and the author being the dungeon master. Scott McCloud will call anything a comic. But seriously, I don't know what to consider the MSPA-type format either; it's something between comic, cartoon, and illustrated story. But regardless, it's actually surprisingly fun to use. I've tried to start webcomics in the past, but the part that always stopped me up was how utterly boring 99% of the work was. If you're trying to do decent character development, that (usually) means there's going to be a lot of talking. Not only does that quickly get very dull to draw, but with healthy speechbubble-to-image ratios it means you have to draw one picture for practically every paragraph. As an author, the MSPA style feels like a "no bullshit" approach. You just kind of do whatever works best for you (or the story) at that moment. And the interesting fact is that it really doesn't affect readability that much. The more I experiment with it, the more it seems like people don't really care whether the text is beneath an image or stuffed into bubbles, or if you don't try to hide your copy-pasting. Honestly, I think the format MSPA uses is perhaps best described as a comic that sheds the arbitrary constraints of comics. Unlike the Scott McCloud stuff, though, it doesn't make a big deal out of it or claim the future lies in something tediously inconvenient like Infinite Canvas. It's more about just telling a story using whatever tools are at your disposal, not flaunting your originality, and not hiding your shortcuts. I highly encourage anyone to try it out for a couple pages if you ever get a chance; it's kind of addictive. Kazerad fucked around with this message at 07:47 on Aug 8, 2011 |
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Aug 8, 2011 07:44
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Dr. Hurt posted:Kazerad, are you only taking suggestions from the MSPA forums? Are you paying attention to the comments on the Prequel site, or are you strictly sticking to one command area? When the commands are all in one place, it makes it easier to read through them or count results. In the forum I try to enforce at least a rudimentary degree of "commands only". I wouldn't want to enforce something like that in the comments, since I feel like that's people should be free to discuss or comment whatever they want there. Taking commands from the forums has a few other benefits too. While I doubt this would be an actual problem, it makes it much harder to "fraud" votes by posting multiple times. It also keeps me tied to the MSPA community, which is still where a huge chunk of my readership comes from. Perhaps most importantly, though maybe somewhat counterintuitively, is that it does make harder to submit commands. A lot of people have remarked that I would get more commands if I didn't require registration, but getting more commands isn't really something I want as a goal. While I don't want to exclude anyone if they want to submit a command, an arbitrary hurdle simply keeps things slightly more manageable. It separates the people who submit commands because they care from the people who submit commands because they have an itchy typing finger. MikeJF posted:Incidentally, Kazerad, if you're not aware, the fact that this gif (and others) is made without a frame delay value means that it renders flickeringly fast in firefox and chrome but at much slower in IE, which inserts an automatic delay in gifs without them. ShineDog posted:The text/picture as and when needed format is certainly interesting. I'd be quite interested to see how it used in a non comedy story. Also, is anyone aware of non interactive stories using the format? I can only think of Hyperbole and a half.
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Aug 8, 2011 20:21
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Haledjian posted:Fair enough! But yeah I agree, I was really happy to see that in there (and well-incorporated too). Thanks Kazerad! I'm gonna imagine it was prompted at least in part by my post earlier in the thread and feel good. And partially inspired by Dominic Deegan. I have just made all you guys like a character who raped the protagonist. Sometimes I do things just because bad authors tried them and failed. Time to update my achievements. Shavnir posted:Man, is it really appropriate to send a scroll of summon skeleton to say "Sorry I had a three way with you and a skeleton"? Kazerad fucked around with this message at 10:25 on Aug 11, 2011 |
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Aug 11, 2011 10:07
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HelloIAmYourHeart posted:Sure, they're carnivores and they love organ meat. My mother used to have a cat whose favorite food in the whole world was raw chicken liver. Liquid Penguins posted:Have you made any other webcomics or anything before? Prior to Prequel, my biggest projects were just prototypes I made for game design competitions. Here's an example some friends and I built about a year ago. I recommend just skipping up to 3:00 so you can see a giant spider kill a bunch of birds. Liquid Penguins posted:ps: if you want an avatar cert I'll buy you one so you won't be a stupid newbie anymore :3 But if you want, you can buy me an avatar cert and give me an avatar (and title?), and I will use them.
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Aug 16, 2011 23:32
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Liquid Penguins posted:I'd ask for your email but you can just send me one instead and I'll hook you up. EDIT: yeah, for some reason it just won't let me send a reply to your address. My account is indeed registered to a at foxmage dot com, though. EDITEDIT: secret word was apple! I put edited it into an earlier post actually, I'll take it out now. Kazerad fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Aug 17, 2011 |
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Aug 17, 2011 06:13
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  I made both of these before ultimately deciding on a much more obscure panel. Major high-five to Liquid Penguins for the Avatar certificate! I'd thank you directly if my email client would let me mail to you. Liquid Penguins posted:Just wanted to double check because believe it or not I got three (3!!) emails claiming to be you!
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Aug 19, 2011 15:18
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Dolash posted:I like the stylized cartoon people, it gives everyone a sort of distinctiveness. Yeah, I'm intentionally trying to give every character a distinct appearance. One of my pet peeves is when artists give everyone the exact same body shape. I've noticed this is particularly prevalent with female characters; oftentimes an artist has no trouble giving a variety of body shapes to male characters, but every female character comes out as nothing more than a "head swap". I abide by the notion that in general, all the characters should be recognizable by silhouette even if their heads were covered up.  Ironically, the game this is largely based off of (Oblivion) depicted only two body shapes in the entire world. By the way for anyone's not following the MSPA forums thread, there are some great Landorumil edits going on there.
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Aug 20, 2011 09:54
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pandaK posted:Oh how I remember those days. 
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Aug 21, 2011 19:35
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Herpus Derpus posted:Edit: Kazerad, what illustration program(s) do you use? Haledjian posted:I'm guessing Flash, almost certainly. For the Flash animations I just export all the necessary sprites to Flash. Gif timing and compression are done in Animation Shop 3; it's an old program, but still one of the best I've found for moving frames around. For a few animations in the dream sequence I had to use Microsoft Gif Animator to solve some transparency problems.
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Aug 25, 2011 04:00
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Gabriel Pope posted:Also I just now noticed this thread was here, so hello Kazerad! I am a fan of your stuff. Pakled posted:Mainly because Bethesda can't be arsed to keep the beast races looking the same between games I think a lot of it also had to do with changing technology. Back in Arena, every race was pretty much just a palette swap. In Daggerfall, they were just a different "paper doll" background image. Then Redguard comes along and Bethesda is like "technology exists now! Let's make khajiit look like giant cats and argonians look like terrifying crocodile men". They're just looking for in-lore ways to play with the available technology. Just watch, as soon as realtime liquid physics becomes practical, they're going to introduce a subrace of extra-sweaty Imperials or something. Kazerad fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Sep 3, 2011 |
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Sep 3, 2011 08:34
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Your furry thread on MSPAF was a thing of beauty, until furries showed up and ruined it.
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Herpus Derpus posted:The black guy always dies first.  CarpiliusCoralinus posted:I agree but, Kazerad, don't go introducing a new view-point character every time things are about to get interesting. Prequel not doing just that (at least, not yet) is one of the points I used to sell it to other people. Net characters introduced: 0  Seriously though, killing Dmitri has been really interesting for me due to the sheer variety in reader reactions. Most people recognized his death as just another part of the story, but some got really angry at me for killing him. To a degree, I can kind of understand why Andrew Hussie keeps bringing dead characters back or showing them happily chilling in the afterlife: a lot of readers are really crushed by a character death. It's tempting to make those readers happy. Especially when they're making poo poo like this: justme (from the MSPA forums) posted:Dmitri and Katia's Impossible Interspecies Children ;-; There's always a lot of people who cry "railroading!" when I edge the story in a direction, but I think that's a misnomer. It's not "railroading" so much as a "no passing zone". There is plenty of opportunity to change lanes while the line is dashed, but if you don't get in the right lane by the time it turns solid, you miss your exit. Which isn't always a bad thing! Sometimes the wrong road leads to very neat places. Kazerad fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Sep 5, 2011 |
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Sep 5, 2011 22:45
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Haledjian posted:Anyway, obviously it's sad to see Dmitri get merked, but I'm kind of mixed on it from a narrative standpoint. On the one hand, his arc feels really incomplete and kind of pointless now. On the other hand, it's definitely in keeping with the masochistic tendencies of the story so far. Something curious I've been noticing in this little webcomicing adventure is that readers sometimes have trouble differentiating between actual information and authorial mistakes. When new information conflicts with their assumptions, their first inclination is often to assume I did something wrong. Kgummy's comment above is a good example: he looks at the latest update and says "Dmitri should have known why nobody talks about the Kvatch Mages Guild", assuming I made an error. Another reader might look at the update and instead wonder "how come Dmitri didn't know?", assuming it to be another piece of the bizarre puzzle. It should be pretty clear by now that information about the Kvatch Mages Guild is intended to seem contradictory. That's not to say it's the reader's fault if they misinterpret my actions as "mistakes". In a way, it's a limitation of the webcomic medium. In a book, you can just tell someone "read the next few chapters, then it will make sense". In a webcomic, the best you can say is "check back every day for several weeks, then hopefully it will make sense". To a certain degree, you just have to trust in the author's competence. Which isn't always easy. I mean, I'm pretty sure all of us have had at least one webcomic we read for years before realizing the author actually had no idea what he was doing.
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Sep 6, 2011 01:22
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I'm beginning to understand a lot of what Andrew Hussie wrote about catering to "archival readers" versus "serial readers". Since I've been updating kind of slow lately, a number of the regular viewers are getting kind of antsy (e.g. "come on, finish walking already"). The people who just started reading through the archive, on the other hand, aren't really bothered. To them, Katia's only been walking for about four pages. One of the more interesting things I've been learning is that doing a webcomic means writing something that simultaneously works at two separate paces. The archival readers are going to tear through the story at a speed pretty much determined by how much text they are given, while the daily readers read through the story as fast as you can write it and have time to speculate on details and stuff. Keeping the story pacing optimal for both groups is a kind of fun (if challenging) juggling act I didn't really anticipate when going into this.
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Sep 25, 2011 01:38
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Gabriel Pope posted:It's an interesting case study in how not to manage a large, complex cast with a lot of intricate subplots going on, because Phil Foglio absolutely can't resist the urge to show what every member of the sprawling cast is doing at all times. Just imagine what Homestuck would be like if Andrew Hussie operated on the same principle. Personally, I think the problem with Girl Genius isn't the size/handling of its cast but the fact that almost every character looks and sounds exactly the same. Like, I think there's supposed to be some kind of love triangle between Agatha, Gil, and Tarvek, but Gil and Tarvek are so similar that I really don't care how it turns out. Also, there's like a dozen different guys trying to take over and/or destroy the Castle right now? A lot of people criticize Andrew Hussie for the troll typing quirks, but I think it was a really clever way to simultaneously introduce 12 new characters. For example, when you see 2ollux typiing liike thii2 (in yellow), it instantly tells you that he's the yellow guy, he's the duality guy, and even that he's the guy with the II symbol on his shirt. If Phil Foglio had some system like that for reminding us what each character's deal is, I think GG would read a lot smoother. idonotlikepeas posted:J. Michael Straczynski, the creator of Babylon 5, had a few things to say about the topic of serial writing. He was comparing television with books, but the issues are actually quite similar. He said he'd known writers who did a gag where they wrote a short story one page at a time, in front of an audience, and slapped each page up on the wall as they were done. He said writing for TV was a lot like that, and I'd say writing a webcomic is a similar experience. Really, it means all of the following: Well, I guess a few things are actually a lot easier for online stories. It's really easy to start reading a webcomic since all the old episodes are readily available, and - like you said - there's also more reward schedules that can be used. Variable Interval is the second-most powerful, and I'm still working on ways to deploy something stronger.
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Sep 25, 2011 21:26
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Gabriel Pope posted:That was absolutely delightful, but the comic is starting to become worryingly saturated with "reader submits weird or creepy idea, Katia reads it and makes a goofy face at the camera" gags. Danger, Kazerad! Danger! Related, a friend showed me this Tumblr exchange a few weeks ago: 
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Sep 26, 2011 03:41
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Taerkar posted:Old Sierra games, Socialist reality? Forget to bring teacup to hell = never marry princess. Sounds more laissez-faire to me. Kazerad fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Sep 26, 2011 |
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Sep 26, 2011 21:55
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Thanks everyone! And yeah, the scene after she enters the bookstore is the "end". The next update will pick up right from that panel (except in a slightly better resolution).idonotlikepeas posted:I only wish you'd released it sometime other than when Hussie put out the end of act flash so you could get more attention. Dolash posted:Yeah flash-wise the timing is hilarious(ly bad). I'm actually not sure it was an overall bad thing. My initial plan was to release during that update lull while Andrew Hussie finished his Homestuck animation, but after schoolwork slowed me down it became clear that I was going to end up finishing within one day of him. At that point I began to realize that a simultaneous release might have benefits of its own. Sure, there would be something big potentially overshadowing me, but it also meant there would be vastly increased traffic in all the forums, chans, and channels that talk about MS Paint Adventures. A huge chunk of my audience (and potential audience) would simultaneously be online, all excited and talking to eachother. I also began to consider that a simultaneous release might lead to a longer-lasting impact. If I released a couple days prior to the Homestuck EoA, my update might be perceived as nothing more than a small time-killer before the EoA. If I released after, it might be regarded as nothing more than a pretty cool afterthought. Updating at the same time as Homestuck, however, had the potential for them perceived as a single entity; to make people be like "holy poo poo there were two big updates today" without necessarily showing favoritism.  Overall, it seems like it worked out about as I expected. While I can't attribute this effect to the simultaneous update with certainty, chatter on the internet seems to support my general hypotheses about the increased word-of-mouth advertising and perception of both updates as a single "10/25 entity". In retrospect, though, there was one unanticipated factor that worked powerfully in my favor: the two updates worked as complements rather than competitors. When Andrew was refusing to post the Homestuck update on Youtube, I was worried that it would be some charming, fully-interactive adventure game that would make my walkaround seem like old news. Ultimately, however, the two updates ended up being very different things. I mean, while in one update children are deciding the fate of universes, in the other one a cat is ecstatic about finding a fork. I think the long-term effects of the simultaneous update are probably beneficial as well. The MSPA flash was amazing, but afterwards I found myself left with a feeling of "okay, what now?". By contrast, the last Prequel update was intentionally designed to draw people back several times, help them plot Katia's next moves, and inspire a bit of minigame score competition. Since the MSPA update got everyone hyped up, I'm suspecting that I'll be able to reap the benefits from that. Of course, this is all speculation. Only time will tell whether this spike actually represents a significant long-term increase in readership.
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Oct 26, 2011 07:16
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IronSaber posted:Are you a marketing major, Kaz? Double major in psychology and economics, actually. Manipulating the behavior of large groups is completely outside of my expertise, so it's been a kind of fun new experience for me. Like, using what I know about controlling a single user's experience and extrapolating ways to apply those techniques to four thousand users.
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Oct 27, 2011 09:31
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IronSaber posted:This explains so much. Dolash posted:Awwww, she marked the arena as "never again!" in her map. And here I was hoping for more Dancing Nord.  All the dancing Nord you could ever want, right here. But seriously, just because Katia said "never again" doesn't necessarily mean she'll stick with it. There's already a bunch of people in the MSPA forum trying to convince her the dance competition is still a good idea, or trying to come up with ways she can compete without looking like a stripper. (Bonus fun fact: the Nord's dance was inspired by a command someone gave earlier in the thread, telling Katia to do the YES Dance (nsfw?). His dance moves were all at least partially referenced from this video.) Kazerad fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Oct 30, 2011 |
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Oct 30, 2011 08:32
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ShineDog posted:Google "Katia Prequel" with safesearch off. Apparently, furry lesbian sex just isn't offensive enough. 
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Nov 1, 2011 06:57
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SirSamVimes posted:Seeing as you're getting a bunch of flash updates, will there be a soundtrack released anytime? I especially want the danceoff music. *sigh* ... A Fur-eash Start and Claws for Alarm. Their puns, not mine. While there's not really enough for a full album there (yet), you should be able to download from the above links. SirSamVimes posted:Edit: If she does take part in the competition, it'd better be another dancing minigame. With different music to dance to for each round, and a differently moving goal bar. I think your 16121 is the highest score I've seen so far, though.
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Nov 4, 2011 11:50
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Sindow posted:Hello I made these for easier story reading and thought you would enjoy them Oh wow, this is an extremely awesome thing you just made and if it were technologically viable to hi-five people through the internet, I would hi-five you (through the internet). How much of this was manual and how much was automated? I notice it can tell the difference between looping animations and "one time" animations, which suggests you had some manual control, but I'm assuming most of the text and image entry was automated?
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Nov 28, 2011 10:06
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Pollyanna posted:You could have had the nightmare king's form extending outside the defined boundaries of the panel. But that would mean you'd have to make a bigger area... Though honestly, all things considered I think the solution Sindow used was pretty good. It works particularly well on that first oversize panel, where you sort of have to follow it down and find Katia. This reminds me that I still have to add non-drawing fanart to my fanart page. I definitely want to get these listed on there, if you don't mind, since I think a lot of people would find them handy for sharing.
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Nov 29, 2011 15:32
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Zenzirouj posted:Hey, not bad. Wonder what that'll do for Kaz's hits. Maybe his webcomic machinations are starting to pay off? Not that there's any sort of money-making opportunity on the site. I'm really happy to get the shoutout the official TES twitter, but it didn't actually have that much of an impact on the readership levels - especially compared to being linked by Three Panel Soul a few days prior. There was only one day this week where the number of hits from Twitter exceeded the number of hits from TPS, and it was only by a mere 15 views. This is pretty in-line with a trend I've already noticed, that Prequel catches on a lot stronger in webcomic-related places than it does in RPG-related ones. Here's a comparative graph, courtesy of Google Analytics. The blue line is total hits from other websites (not counting direct traffic), the orange is TPS, the green is Twitter.  Still, it's awesome that Bethesda linked me. I think something particularly interesting to note is that they linked the first page of the comic - a choice people often make when trying to introduce new readers. It gives a strong implication that they are familiar enough with the comic to know this is the best way to share it. Anyway, as for whether my Dark Machinations are starting to pay off, I personally think they've been paying off pretty well from the start. This whole time I've been learning a lot about the different routes by which readers can arrive as well as what kind of things they enjoy most in a work. But perhaps more importantly, in copying Hussie's style I've been coming to question a whole lot of my preconceived notions about comics and writing. When I first started Prequel, the MSPA-ness was basically just done as a tribute. Over time, though, I've come to understand why Hussie made a lot of his stylistic choices. The way I see it, the core idea behind the "MSPA style" is that it celebrates the digital medium rather than trying to hide it. Things like copy+paste, sprite flips, and even style shifts are all displayed openly, whereas a lot of comic authors (myself formerly included) assume the only "right" way to do something is to redraw every panel from scratch while making it look like your drawing ability has been constant throughout the whole project. When I look back now, I realize just how many relics of the Print Comic industry we still arbitrarily accept as the "correct method". Kazerad fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Dec 5, 2011 |
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Dec 5, 2011 17:59
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IronSaber posted:In all fairness, though, copy-pasting art over and over can be construed as lazy. Whereas the print comic industry, at least in the non-digital medium, doesn't have that luxury. Oh, it can definitely be construed as lazy, yeah. I think the belief is more of a social construct than anything with an actual basis, though. For instance, compare comics to video games: when we play a game, we accept that nearly every scene is made of reusable models used over and over again. In a self-proclaimed "retro" game we'll even let it slide if the ground is made of a single repeating tile. This is the functional equivalent to copy-paste abuse, but it goes unquestioned. We just accept that it saves a lot of work and allows for the creation of games that may have never had sufficient funding otherwise. Comics really have all the same luxuries, even if the creators don't realize it. Copy+Paste (as well as other things I named, like sprite flipping or style shifts) are all perfectly valid techniques an artist can use to save work, right up there with more accepted corner-cutting techniques like flat shading or grayscale coloring. There's no shame in cutting a particular corner when the benefits from doing so would outweigh the costs. When an artist feels that something is required for their medium, they might spend excessive resources on it without realizing it is not necessary. (In other words I am doing MSPA-ripoff Oblivion fanfiction to fight stereotypes and benefit of artistry as a whole. SO NOBLE)
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Dec 5, 2011 20:01
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Nick Buntline posted:So I think it's a bit of a misnomer to say that everyone has the "luxury" of copy-pasting. Every comic can do that (just like every poet can follow e.e. cummings and not bother with capital letters), but doing so has specific benefits, drawbacks, effects on aesthetics and tone, and so forth, and those need to be taken into account before the decision is made. There are certainly times where asset re-use is perfectly fine and acceptable and potentially even beneficial (arguably in situations where, like this, it evokes similarities with other forms of digital media), but there are also plenty of times where doing so would be counter to the artist's goals. Nick Buntline posted:The difference between Ryan North and Tim Buckley isn't their relative proficiency at re-using art assets, it's that Ryan North is making a conscious aesthetic decision while Tim Buckely is a lazy sack of poo poo who refuses to learn basic artistic concepts. loquacius posted:Well, being linked on Bethesda's Twitter account sort of stole a lot of this post's thunder, but it's also kinda cool that Three Panel Soul linked Prequel after running a Skyrim strip (involving a Khajiit). Some more webcomic props to throw on the big pile! Though today I've been getting an influx of new readers from Reddit. The guy who helped me with the website CSS posted the earflop gif there with the simple caption "Khajiit mages". It was my first time getting over 10k unique visitors in a single day. Kazerad fucked around with this message at 11:56 on Dec 10, 2011 |
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Dec 10, 2011 11:50
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 Well, that was an adventure! The site should be all better now, and sufficiently shielded from any similar occurrences in the future. It could probably survive a full-on slashdotting right now if it had to. Commutator posted:You're an interesting dude, Kazerad. It's pretty neat hearing you talk about gaining fans and building a readership from a purely economic point of view. Sure, some people might say its disingenuous, manipulative, mercenary, whatever, but I think you're just being real and I admire that. Thanks! Being called an interesting dude is pretty much the biggest compliment I can think of. As for the sex-negative thing, I know I've said it before but Katia's views do not necessarily reflect my own. But even then, I think "sex-negative" is a somewhat misleading label for her views. A lot of her statements border on outright slut-shaming, but at the same time she has only been shown applying them to herself. In a lot of ways you could compare it to a depressed, middle-aged accountant who looks back on his life and says "I could've been a musician". He clearly doesn't value accounting very much... but would it be right to tell him this belief was wrong, or construe this as an attack on accounting in general? Yeah, I just made an analogy where accounting represents sex. But it's an apt one. Katia's sex-negativity doesn't seem to come from any ethical beliefs, but rather from a dissatisfaction with her old lifestyle. A lot of it clearly stems from social reasons: she wants people to respect her more than they did. You could berate her for caring so much about the opinions of others, or you could praise her for going after something she wants. Both are valid ways of looking at the situation. Even though it's used as a pretty major part of her character, I think it's safe to say the comic isn't really making a statement one way or the other about sex. Katia is clearly trying to dissociate herself from it, but at the same time she is a depressed, neurotic mess and her views should probably not be taken as gospel. It would probably be construed as much less sex-negative if she chose her words more tactfully, but giving her internal thoughts a sterile, politically correct vocabulary just seems unrealistic. After all, this is a woman who hates herself. And I'll be perfectly honest: I don't trust myself to talk intelligently about issues of sex positivity/negativity. I just don't know enough about the different arguments and research. When I'm writing in-character I can have Katia cluelessly bumble through these deep topics, but I wouldn't want to make any actual statements about them unless I did a whole lot of reading beforehand. Yonic Symbolism posted:Are you guys really asking for a plush catgirl Guys, plush toys (and merchandising in general) are a lot of work and probably never going to happen. Though I did see a great idea on 4chan: a Katia plushie that cries when you squeeze it, and is refilled via a booze bottle. Kazerad fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Dec 21, 2011 |
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Dec 21, 2011 06:52
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Haledjian posted:How readers interpret it is gonna matter a lot more in this department than how you explain it on Something Awful, though. And honestly when I first started reading it, the "it's just Katia" interpretation is what I wanted to go with, but when you yourself characterize your work as "slutty cat adventures" (1, 2) it's pretty hard to give it the benefit of the doubt there (even when I really really want to). Oh, yeah, I recognize that the things I write on SA aren't going to affect how the writing is perceived by-and-large. I just wanted to throw in my two cents on the topic. I wouldn't even go so far as to claim my interpretations are "right", since I prefer it when people come up with their own opinions on the writing. It's part of the reason I misrepresent the comic in my descriptions: I want people to come up with their own description, not use mine. Nobody who has read it would seriously describe it as "slutty cat adventures", I think. Though this is totally the first time I've seen anyone describe the ghost scene as a height of sexual negativity.
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Dec 23, 2011 05:08
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Haledjian posted:I'm a dude who hasn't even had to face these types of attitudes directed at me and those parts of the comic still make me uncomfortable, even AFTER reading Kazerad's take on it on SA. What with all the hits it's been getting, I'm sure there's at least hundreds if not thousands of female readers who don't have the privilege of having read this particular forum thread. How many of them are going to feel alienated by it? I can't really make a guess beyond "probably too many." And that number's gonna scale accordingly with increasing (and deserved) popularity of this comic. I can understand where you're coming from, but I haven't found any evidence that I'm alienating any large portion of my female readership. In fact, of all the Prequel discussions I watch around the internet, this is the only place where the issue of sex positivity/negativity has even come up - which is somewhat disappointing because I think it is a rather interesting topic, especially in the context of the story. Even Tumblr, which is usually first to jump on issues like this, has been remarkably quiet. When it comes down to it, I think readers are pretty smart. I don't need to give them hints about what's ethically right and wrong. This isn't a Saturday Morning Cartoon where the bullies always get punished, the thieves always get caught, and any bad behavior is followed by an immediate explanation of "but that is wrong!". I certainly could attempt to balance things out like that - for instance, making sure the comic portrays healthy sexual relationships among the other characters - but it seems silly. At least to me, it feels belittling to the reader, like I am taking on an unwarranted position as their moral adviser. So it's something I choose not to do. I recognize the approach probably alienates a certain amount of readers - like I said before, sex is a pretty sensitive topic and Katia bumbles through it uncouthly at best. In the end, though, I think it's worth it: men and women alike have lauded Katia as a believable character, and I'm not sure I could've achieved that with a tamer vocabulary ("I'm going to stop having sex with people because I don't want to and have more important things to do right now") or more acceptable subject matter. The ambiguity behind whether she's doing this for herself or others is likewise intentional; the story is not trying to portray her actions as the "right" thing to do. Whether you cheer her on should be up to you. So yeah, tl;dr version is that I'm not too worried about it. I know I'm kind of playing with fire, but that just makes it all the more interesting when I don't get burned. prahanormal posted:Kazerad, your comments make me feel like you are unaware of the amount of porney fan-art Prequel has spawned, and if so I am so sorry for bringing it to your attention, but I'm pretty sure there is at least a few people who are reading the comic because they like the idea of a slutty catgirl loving everything. Hah, don't worry, I know about it. Given the type of character Katia is, it's actually kind of neat seeing what the porn artists write about the drawings. One that sticks in my mind is a nude drawing someone did; the artist wrote that he "would've done full porn, but... that wasn't what Katia would've wanted". I thought that was kind of touching. And not the kind of touching usually associated with porn. (That was a tasteless masturbation joke, to balance out all this heavy discussion about sex positivism)
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Dec 24, 2011 03:13
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Syphilicious! posted:So wait do you answer or at least show all the responses given or just the ones you use/comment on Just the ones I use. Whenever possible I try to at least nod to everything, though. Even dumb poo poo like "Katia: Leekspin" often partially manifests.
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Dec 30, 2011 22:19
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Mr Wind Up Bird posted:I'm amazed you can produce anything worth reading at all after looking at your commands thread. Those people are really really not funny at all. Yeah, it has its good moments, and now isn't really one of them. I think there's just one person who keeps veering it off-topic; I'm gonna go see if I can get a moderator to take care of that or something.
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Dec 31, 2011 07:24
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Maple Leaf posted:I like the absail thing because when Katia looks it up, she's at the very beginning of the dictionary, at what looks like the end of the A section. That was neat attention to detail. Thanks! I like to think details such as this make up for the fact I forget to draw her little purse thing in half the panels.
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Jan 21, 2012 23:28
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radintorov posted:Kazerad, I'm curious about a few things (btw thanks for the answers so far, guys), if you do not mind me asking: I don't mind! Though I went ahead and numbered all your questions to make them easier to answer. 1- It's hard to describe between those two options. The best explanation is that I have the entire thing planned out, but it changes all the time. At any given point I pretty much know how the rest of the story is going to go, but then unexpected suggestions or reader reactions will cause me to veer off in a completely different direction and come up with something new. I'm reminded of something I heard years ago, when a friend was talking about her experiences in running D&D games: "if a player comes up with a theory that's better than your original idea, act like it was your plan all along". I've employed that approach heavily. 2- Her "creation" was actually a process that happened gradually as I was starting the story. I had certain things in mind when I started: she was going to be a race that suffered moderate discrimination, she was going to be afraid of royalty, and she was going to have self esteem as durable as an egg. A lot of her backstory and deeper personality traits didn't develop until things started moving and more ideas started getting fed in. I had final say on all the developments of course, so I went for things that I felt were interesting or worked well with the story I had in mind. I also think it's safe to say I took a lot of cues from MSPA in her design - not in that I was mimicking any specific character, but MSPA's style always focused around giving its characters distinctive narrative voices and constructing them from features that would remain recognizable in a variety of visual styles. 3- Yes and yes. Beyond any potentially plot-relevant stuff, there's actually a good number of Daggerfall references in here if you keep an eye open for them. Mostly little obscure things that poke fun at differences between the games, such her remark that she has experience climbing, but the stonework in Cyrodiil is smoother than she's used to (there was a climbing skill in Daggerfall that let people scale vertical walls, but was removed in later games). Though I admit Daggerfall isn't an easy game to play. I've only created one character who could get significantly far: the venerable Punch Fistsworth. I made him a custom class, "motherfucker", which gets regeneration, rapid healing, and a bonus toward hitting every type of enemy... at the expense of being unable to equip any type of armor or weapon. He also speaks nearly every language, since I had like a dozen more skills to choose after giving him punchin', dodgin', and critical strike. He is shockingly effective. 4- I knew I wanted a supporting character in Anvil and she was a pretty good choice. Oblivion is kind of like a giant sampler platter of relatively interesting characters that the game uses for practically nothing. Between Quill-Weave's unusual schedule, occupation, and appearance, she seemed like one of the better choices. Lots of little nuances it's possible to expand upon. Though as far as characters with nuancess go, that elf lady at the castle comes in a close second. She apparently has a script where she's supposed to periodically sleep with the Anvil guard captain, but due to a coding bug she'll periodically just break into his room and watch him sleep. 5- Like QW, I knew pretty early on that I wanted a character to show up and possibly accompany Katia between Anvil and Kvatch. Asotil was actually planned for a while before his introduction; originally he was going to show up during the animation in Katia: Approach, but I ended up cutting this idea and delaying it for pacing reasons. My final plan was much better. 6- Only in some ways. That is, I'm not writing him specifically with "player parody" in mind, but some of his habits are definitely very player-like. He has a lot of other traits that are very anti-player - like, only going one room into a ruin to minimize risk. But maybe that's just how people would play if they only got one life. Hopefully that answers everything adequately!
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Jan 28, 2012 06:19
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Okay which one of you guys just did a search for "Fistworth" on the Prequel site?
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Jan 28, 2012 11:29
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