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evobatman
Jul 30, 2006

it means nothing, but says everything!
Pillbug
I've seen some poo poo on the internet. For the first time ever I'm not gonna click a gory link, and I feel pretty good about that decision.

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shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

I can't understand what made all the gibs stick to the intake cowling

I heart bacon
Nov 18, 2007

:burger: It's burgin' time! :burger:



I bet it really HERTZ! :downsrim:

Comrade Blyatlov
Aug 4, 2007


should have picked four fingers





solid username for this topic

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

So today in the greatest moment of inexplicable retardation of my entire life, I managed to cause an arc flash while sitting at my cube. Preparing to test a rail- mount 24v power supply at my desk, I plugged my power cable with the bare leads for screw- terminal devices into the wall before connecting it to the equipment being tested.


Don't be a goofus. It can happen to you.

Three-Phase
Aug 5, 2006

by zen death robot

Platystemon posted:

Those are some aggressively dead dudes.

We were shown those pictures once during a presentation at work - most people didn't recognize there were two bodies in the image until they showed some other views.

The "equipment" used by copper thieves included stuff like rubber gloves used for handling chemicals, dishwashing gloves, stuff like that. The real-deal stuff used for live line work is purpose-built and has to be checked before used and regularly rectified or replaced.

No gore here but still impressive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfwpF68Di8k

Live-link removal to isolate equipment at an indoor 132,000 volt substation. Things get good around 3 minutes.

Additional fun: step potential
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0i1SxtzPZA

"Slowly move your feet apart. If you feel a tingly feeling in your legs, you are still in the step potential zone, and must continue bunny-hopping."

Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Feb 23, 2017

Orvin
Sep 9, 2006




Three-Phase posted:

We were shown those pictures once during a presentation at work - most people didn't recognize there were two bodies in the image until they showed some other views.

The "equipment" used by copper thieves included stuff like rubber gloves used for handling chemicals, dishwashing gloves, stuff like that. The real-deal stuff used for live line work is purpose-built and has to be checked before used and regularly rectified or replaced.

No gore here but still impressive:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfwpF68Di8k

Live-link removal to isolate equipment at an indoor 132,000 volt substation. Things get good around 3 minutes.

Additional fun: step potential
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0i1SxtzPZA

"Slowly move your feet apart. If you feel a tingly feeling in your legs, you are still in the step potential zone, and must continue bunny-hopping."

That first video was pretty interesting. I am just wondering where that location is that space is at such a large premium that some sort of disconnect switch couldn't be installed instead of those links. And yet it can't be supplying too much load, as only 2 lines and 2 transformers does not make for a very robust source.

Or it could be that I am a little too used to the Midwest, where space is either cheap and plentiful, or at a huge premium due to being in a city (with huge load requirements).

Three-Phase
Aug 5, 2006

by zen death robot
General question:

Does anyone have specific, accepted criteria for the point when a construcion/engineering project can be officially declared a "train wreck"?

In my head it's at least the following:
- Fatal accident or serious injury
- Serious equipment damage (six figures or greater)

Or a combination of a couple of these factors:
- >25% cost overrun
- Significant schedule delay
- Significant modifications or redesigns WHILE things are being put together
- Lawyers or arbitrators getting involved
- Terminations or resignations
- Management or customers declaring the project "a train wreck"
- Requesting different replacement contractors

Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Mar 7, 2017

Goatse James Bond
Mar 28, 2010

If you see me posting please remind me that I have Charlie Work in the reports forum to do instead

froward posted:

Hi two finger, I work on boats too!

I'm a "marine electrician" - I've got no union book, there's apparently no electrical code on boats built in the US beyond what the US coast guard demands. Everything I know I learned wiring houses and farms as a teenager. I feel like a fake electrician but I'm one of the most competent people at my work.

Here's a little story: Boats have a bilge, which is the very bottom of the inside of the boat, above the keel, where condensation (and sometimes leaks!) accumulates (and is pumped out when it reaches a certain level). There is water in the bilge, at all times. The boat I'm working on now has a 480 -> 120 transformer in the engine room that is sitting below floor level, a foot above the bilge. It is very damp. The engineers have decided that declaring it a "backup transformer" and slapping a "do not use" sticker on it will somehow fix this problem. I assume this is a political solution; the transformer has never been successfully started in its current location. :derp:

Anyway my question is how the heck do I get a solid electrician job doing industrial work, where I can make serious dosh? Also how do I not die. Thanks in advance.

:stare: :hf: :laffo:

Methylethylaldehyde
Oct 23, 2004

BAKA BAKA

Three-Phase posted:

General question:

Does anyone have specific, accepted criteria for the point when a construcion/engineering project can be officially declared a "train wreck"?

In my head it's at least the following:
- Fatal accident or serious injury
- Serious equipment damage (six figures or greater)

Or a combination of a couple of these factors:
- >25% cost overrun
- Significant schedule delay
- Significant modifications or redesigns WHILE things are being put together
- Lawyers or arbitrators getting involved
- Terminations or resignations
- Management or customers declaring the project "a train wreck"
- Requesting different replacement contractors

A trainwreck really requires a confluence of issues that last a long period of time. Much like a real trainwreck, they continue for far longer that you'd expect, and you can't look away.

A moderate trainwreck project would have unbid and un-budgeted change orders mid-project, at least one change in team leadership, and one resignation.

A total trainwreck has gross mismanagement of the project, significant changes in design and scope occur repeatedly, cost and schedule overruns greater than 100%, multiple terminations and resignations, and at least one accident costing significant money or life. All the while the lawyers of both firms are floating around in the background sniping at each other.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Methylethylaldehyde posted:

trainwreck really requires a confluence of issues that last a long period of time. Much like a real trainwreck, they continue for far longer that you'd expect, and you can't look away.

A moderate trainwreck project would have unbid and un-budgeted change orders mid-project, at least one change in team leadership, and one resignation.

A total trainwreck has gross mismanagement of the project, significant changes in design and scope occur repeatedly, cost and schedule overruns greater than 100%, multiple terminations and resignations, and at least one accident costing significant money or life. All the while the lawyers of both firms are floating around in the background sniping at each other.

in essence, my project manager at my last place of employ rolling up his sleeves and asking someone to hold his beer.

A few of his personal accomplishments in the field of project trainwrecking:

scope creep
ignoring the contract requirements
underbudgeting time/materials
underbudgeting manpower required for no reason other than to project hyper-competency
baking the expectation of subsequent change orders into the initial bid/contract without informing the client
schedule drift
failing to capture regulatory requirements in designs
claiming project milestones are met due to schedule rather than project status
assume anyone who quits or demands transfer off project wasn't doing anything anyway, and therefore no changes required in manpower allotment
no news is good news communication philosophy

Tenchrono
Jun 2, 2011


I feel like this is as good as a place as any to ask:

Scenario: my girlfriend and I are laying down in bed with both of us holding our phones that are plugged in to the wall. Whenever I touch her skin with my fingertips only I feel a buzzing sensation and it feels "rough" and hard to drag the finger across. This doesn't happen if one of us isn't holding our phone, if I'm holding my hand still, or if I press hard enough. And I feeling the hertz from the electricity, should I contact the rental company to look at the outlets?

wolrah
May 8, 2006
what?

FAT CURES MUSCLES posted:

I feel like this is as good as a place as any to ask:

Scenario: my girlfriend and I are laying down in bed with both of us holding our phones that are plugged in to the wall. Whenever I touch her skin with my fingertips only I feel a buzzing sensation and it feels "rough" and hard to drag the finger across. This doesn't happen if one of us isn't holding our phone, if I'm holding my hand still, or if I press hard enough. And I feeling the hertz from the electricity, should I contact the rental company to look at the outlets?

The Don't burn your house down thread is probably the best place for household electrical questions, but I'd definitely say you should have your wiring checked out. As an educated guess I'd say you have some kind of ground problem that's combining with a cheap and/or broken USB adapter to connect AC power to one of the phones which grounds through the other one.

M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon
As an aside if it hasn't killed you and your girl yet I hear mild electric shocks can be very stimulating depending on location.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS

FAT CURES MUSCLES posted:

I feel like this is as good as a place as any to ask:

Scenario: my girlfriend and I are laying down in bed with both of us holding our phones that are plugged in to the wall. Whenever I touch her skin with my fingertips only I feel a buzzing sensation and it feels "rough" and hard to drag the finger across. This doesn't happen if one of us isn't holding our phone, if I'm holding my hand still, or if I press hard enough. And I feeling the hertz from the electricity, should I contact the rental company to look at the outlets?

It’s harmless phenomenon that’s a consequence of the design of the power supplies. Your mains wiring has nothing to do with it.

If you’re using name‐brand chargers, you have nothing to worry about. If you really want the effect to go away, using grounded (three‐prong) chargers ought to eliminate it.

Platystemon fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Mar 30, 2017

Vanagoon
Jan 20, 2008


Best Dead Gay Forums
on the whole Internet!

kastein posted:

Speaking of arcing, a friend of mine on IRC just linked some pictures... the title was "thieves aren't engineers".

:nms::nws::gonk:WARNING: THERE ARE VERY DEAD PEOPLE IN THESE PICTURES - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. That's what happens when you try to steal a live high voltage line for scrap.:gonk::nws::nms:
http://imgur.com/a/AUeZr

Now that's what you call earning yourself a Darwin Award. God -drat-

atomicthumbs
Dec 26, 2010


We're in the business of extending man's senses.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeqZL7ZsUt8

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer
Any idea what this is? https://goo.gl/maps/V6AYZ47g8vn (equipment above the solar panel).

It was making an arcing noise when I walked by it today... I called the power company about it, because it seemed unusual (and it's never done that before).

When I described it as an electrical arcing noise, the rep said "I don't know what that sounds like".

wemgo
Feb 15, 2007
Looks like some capacitors. I am assuming that the solar panel is used to power the breakers between the capacitors and the circuit.

How loud was the buzzing?

devicenull
May 30, 2007

Grimey Drawer

wemgo posted:

Looks like some capacitors. I am assuming that the solar panel is used to power the breakers between the capacitors and the circuit.

How loud was the buzzing?

Turns out the buzzing was because a wire had become detached from whatever it was, and was rubbing along the side of it, arcing. Power company didn't do anything about it yesterday, I called back today about the detached wire.

The solar panels are actually grid supply!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/28/science/earth/28solar.html

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005


LOL at these nimby fuckers. It's like dealing with children...they want solar power because they think it's "free", but with zero power quality concessions and they don't want to actually see the pv panels.

Although RE: the original question, that is actually a switched capacitor bank just like wemgo said. I'm not familiar with that installation, but it's likely that in this case the pv panel does power the control for the switches, since there isn't any 120/240v on that pole.

angryrobots fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Jun 4, 2017

coyo7e
Aug 23, 2007

by zen death robot
Same people who piss and moan about the bird killings from wind power, while they go buy a bag of friskies to dump in the slough for the "starving" local feral cat population (I wish I was joking, some old biddy used to do this at the house I bought - that's not something your realtor would know or answer honestly about lol).

Any half-rear end solar engineer ought to also be adding in compensation and caveats for glare to nearby windows and structures, or how your super perfect adobe tile roof won't be fully visible when you come up your driveway. I mean he does have an ASHRAE book to refer to, or has some software to do it for him plug and play. Right?

Oh no, that's why he came in several thousand dollars cheaper, and didn't have mock-ups to show to the property owner.

coyo7e fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Jun 8, 2017

Comrade Blyatlov
Aug 4, 2007


should have picked four fingers





Does anyone remember a video which may have been posted in this thread showing a Fluke guy comparing a lovely multimeter to one of theirs, and dumping a pile of amps through them both to show what would happen with the lovely one catching fire bigly? I wanted to show it to a friend and was sure it was in this thread but couldn't find it in the last 5 or 6 pages.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWRaU9zMVyU&t=1353s

There’s this one. Not as exciting as you imply, perhaps.

Comrade Blyatlov
Aug 4, 2007


should have picked four fingers





Platystemon posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzwN8yibjjA&t=1024s

There’s this one. Not as exciting as you imply, perhaps.

That isn't it. It was a guy and he made a big deal of the expensive-rear end fuse flukes use after showing what happened. I remember it was when he put too much current into the cheap one for it to handle and it made all kinds of evil arcing noises and caught fire.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012

BREADS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEoazQ1zuUM&t=325s

Explosion @ 6:30.

Comrade Blyatlov
Aug 4, 2007


should have picked four fingers





That's the one! Thanks man.

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005

A month without posts? That just won't do. Here's something I had to deal with last week:



Your power company hates this one weird trick that saves money on your bill!

Orvin
Sep 9, 2006




What's done when someone is found bypassing the electric meter? Are there criminal charges or anything?

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005

There can be, but generally we don't bother because we're ridiculously understaffed and criminal charges require having at least one person go to every court date. And in this case, they were only stealing for about a week, so I just cut them completely loose and whoever set up the account will be liable for a hefty sum (estimated usage + $100 tampering fee + probably >$1k deposit) if they ever want to be reconnected here or anywhere on our system.

I had one a couple weeks ago that was caught stealing some years before and never paid up - they stole for something like a year or two before getting caught. Anyhow, they paid $4200 to get power to a new location.

Now, if we ever caught someone stealing on a large scale like a grow house, that would probably be pursued because they can steal $50k in power in 6 months with an operation in a single wide trailer. Usually those will dig up and attach to the service underground, while still operating an active account at the location to belay suspicion. I was told of another local power company who replaced 2 transformers at a location before figuring out something was up. :v:

Three-Phase
Aug 5, 2006

by zen death robot

Vanagoon posted:

Now that's what you call earning yourself a Darwin Award. God -drat-

I'm guessing 13.8kV looking at the drip shields there. Not the most carbonized bodies I've seen but it's still pretty significant.

CYKA BLYAT!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNNa25UGT7U

Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Jul 17, 2017

shame on an IGA
Apr 8, 2005

Lost in all the insanity coming out of the white house today, Santee Cooper and SCE&G are abandoning the AP1000 reactor projects in South Carolina.

$14 Billion USD says what

Orvin
Sep 9, 2006




shame on an IGA posted:

Lost in all the insanity coming out of the white house today, Santee Cooper and SCE&G are abandoning the AP1000 reactor projects in South Carolina.

$14 Billion USD says what

Not particularly surprising to hear. Especially since in the Midwest, companies are playing games with their nuclear plants in an attempt to get "green" money out of state governments. So far they have been successful in Illinois, and I think the next target is somewhere on the East coast.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Orvin posted:

Not particularly surprising to hear. Especially since in the Midwest, companies are playing games with their nuclear plants in an attempt to get "green" money out of state governments. So far they have been successful in Illinois, and I think the next target is somewhere on the East coast.

I dunno if "playing games" is the right way to phrase it. it's more or less "closing plants", a trend that's been catching. Some plants close due to equipment issues, like San Onofre and Crystal River, but the ones that closed due to economics are the real trendsetters. Just like Saudi Arabia is using cheap oil to kill its competitors, cheap natural gas from fracking is killing its primary competitors in power generation (coal and nuclear).

So the "game" being played here is "it's not economical to keep the plant open due to cheap natural gas combined cycle turbines, but the nuclear plants support a local economy in your state way more than that natural gas plant does, it's way better in terms of greenhouse gas production, and if the gas prices ever start climbing again you'll be stuck forking over more money because you'll have literally no other options if we're gone."

And despite the many faults of nuclear power, it is green energy, but that's a different and well-trod debate in the power generation megathread.

Orvin
Sep 9, 2006




I was more talking about the Exelon nuclear plants in Illinois. I get how Clinton nuclear plant can be more expensive to run with only one generator at that site. But what didn't make much sense to me is how the Quad Cities plant can be more expensive to run compared to the other 4 plants running in Northern Illinois. The only thing that ever made sense was that since Exelon only owns a portion of Quad Cities, they were willing to take the risk of the state calling their bluff and shutting down.

I will have to look for the power generation megathread. I didn't know one existed.

Pander
Oct 9, 2007

Fear is the glue that holds society together. It's what makes people suppress their worst impulses. Fear is power.

And at the end of fear, oblivion.



Orvin posted:

I was more talking about the Exelon nuclear plants in Illinois. I get how Clinton nuclear plant can be more expensive to run with only one generator at that site. But what didn't make much sense to me is how the Quad Cities plant can be more expensive to run compared to the other 4 plants running in Northern Illinois. The only thing that ever made sense was that since Exelon only owns a portion of Quad Cities, they were willing to take the risk of the state calling their bluff and shutting down.

I will have to look for the power generation megathread. I didn't know one existed.
Even the youngest of the IL plants are pushing 30, with Quad Cities closer to 50 than 40. The constant retrofits and modifications required by new regulations (FLEX upgrades, NFPA 805 compliance) are huge drains even for 2 unit plants.

Most of the US fleet should be getting replaced now, rather than extended or mothballed.

Kinda like the US electrical grid. It's a problem out of sight out of mind for most people, and at some point it's going to be a heinously expensive problem that needs an immediate fix because of neglect and a failure of imagination.

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

angryrobots posted:

Usually those will dig up and attach to the service underground

How do you do this without cutting the power or dying horribly?

angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005

Peel back the insulation and attach their conductor with a split bolt or whatever. Some have their own linemen/electricians with professional tools and training.

Edit: and per a guy who has seen several, apparently a soda bottle filled with great stuff expanding foam makes for a better waterproof splice capsule than commercially available kits.

angryrobots fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Aug 13, 2017

The Lone Badger
Sep 24, 2007

angryrobots posted:

Peel back the insulation and attach their conductor with a split bolt or whatever.

But isn't the cable live while they're doing that?

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angryrobots
Mar 31, 2005

Yeah. You can work on it hot with precaution, we do so legitimately every day.

Generally not splicing into cable (hot or not) that's not in a vault or termination box of some kind, but that's more an issue with re-accessibility.

Here, maybe a picture makes it more clear:



The cable (sweetbriar - 4/0 aluminum urd direct bury) is three individual cables twisted together, with no extra jacketing. It's used for 120/240 residential voltage. Once you get a big enough section uncovered, you could pull the cables apart and work them one at a time.

angryrobots fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Aug 14, 2017

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